Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

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GreeBo wrote: »

He was beaten by poor putting, nothing else.

I would agree with the poster regarding his post round interview.
He seems to be happy to just get top 10. Himself and Kuch should move in together, maybe Stricker could sub-let a room too.

GreeBo wrote: »

The putting stats.

But you don't seem to like inconvenient things like stats and facts and instead rely on emotions.

:D:D:D

Pogue eile

GreeBo wrote: »

The putting stats.

But you don't seem to like inconvenient things like stats and facts and instead rely on emotions.

No they dont, but maybe you dont understand stats. You conveniently ignored the remainder of my post?

fullstop

GreeBo wrote: »

Thats a pretty poor attempt at countering ANY of the points that I made and backed up with facts.

But lets go with it anyway:

Are you seriously saying that we should celebrate the fact that he is 14th & 16th after one of his best putting displays?

Hang on, you said he was "beaten by poor putting, nothing else" in an earlier post...now you're saying it was one of his best putting displays. Which is it? Or can you make up your mind? Is 14th out of 150+ poor putting?

Also your comment that none of us would have heard of him if he wasn't a big hitter is frankly embarrassing.

GreeBo

fullstop wrote: »

Hang on, you said he was "beaten by poor putting, nothing else" in an earlier post...now you're saying it was one of his best putting displays. Which is it? Or can you make up your mind? Is 14th out of 150+ poor putting?

I already answered that but again, it can be *his* best putting display in a long time and still not be a good putting display in general. I dont see where the confusion is?

He frequently misses everything he looks at, this time he didnt miss them all. He still missed lots of them and that cost him the Open.

fullstop wrote: »

Also your comment that none of us would have heard of him if he wasn't a big hitter is frankly embarrassing.

Without his long game imo he doesnt have what it takes to make it.
His approach play is terrible and his putting is nowhere near good enough to save him. When he drives it badly he finishes nowhere or misses the cut altogether.

Keano

https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1021374024386039810

kiers47

Keano wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1021374024386039810

Not bad for a hacker with just a big drive :pac:

prawnsambo

GreeBo wrote: »

Without his long game imo he doesnt have what it takes to make it.
His approach play is terrible and his putting is nowhere near good enough to save him. When he drives it badly he finishes nowhere or misses the cut altogether.

His approach play was excellent when he won the US Open and pretty much until fairly recently. It went off at the latter stages of his Nike period and was showing signs recently of getting back to where it used to be. It wasn't particularly good yesterday, but imo the graph looks like it's on an upward curve. Time will tell. The TM clubs seem to suit him better than the Nike ones did.

He's beaten bigger hitters than he is, so he has to have more in the bag than just beiing a big hitter.

OEP

GreeBo wrote: »

fullstop wrote: »

Hang on, you said he was "beaten by poor putting, nothing else" in an earlier post...now you're saying it was one of his best putting displays. Which is it? Or can you make up your mind? Is 14th out of 150+ poor putting?

I already answered that but again, it can be *his* best putting display in a long time and still not be a good putting display in general. I dont see where the confusion is?

He frequently misses everything he looks at, this time he didnt miss them all. He still missed lots of them and that cost him the Open.

fullstop wrote: »

Also your comment that none of us would have heard of him if he wasn't a big hitter is frankly embarrassing.

Without his long game imo he doesnt have what it takes to make it.
His approach play is terrible and his putting is nowhere near good enough to save him. When he drives it badly he finishes nowhere or misses the cut altogether.

This is more a post on how I dislike how you make some of your points, rather than arguing the points you're making. His putting and wedge game is quite poor at the moment, we can all agree on that. He's not the best in the world etc. I agree there, although I still (maybe naively and with national bias) believe that he can get back to where he was.
Saying things like without his long game, he doesn't have what it takes is a bit stupid. That's the same as saying without his putting Spieth doesn't have what it takes. Or to use other sports, with his power Lebron James doesn't have with it takes. Without his speed Usain Bolt wouldn't have made it. His long game is by far the strongest aspect of his game, and it's probably the best long game in the world, so you can't decide to exclude that when talking about how good / not good he really is.

fullstop

GreeBo wrote: »

I already answered that but again, it can be *his* best putting display in a long time and still not be a good putting display in general. I dont see where the confusion is?

He frequently misses everything he looks at, this time he didnt miss them all. He still missed lots of them and that cost him the Open.



Without his long game imo he doesnt have what it takes to make it.
His approach play is terrible and his putting is nowhere near good enough to save him. When he drives it badly he finishes nowhere or misses the cut altogether.

So this is the fella that won the West of Ireland and Irish Close at 16 years old, Silver medal in The Open at 18, won on the EuropeanTour at 19 and reached world number 1 at 23? And all he can do is hit it far? Riiight.

GreeBo

OEP wrote: »

I still (maybe naively and with national bias) believe that he can get back to where he was.

I dont disagree.
There is no reason why he cant improve his wedge play and putting, other golfers have (DJ as an example of someone who turned their wedge game around). The question is does he want it enough?

OEP wrote: »

Saying things like without his long game, he doesn't have what it takes is a bit stupid. That's the same as saying without his putting Spieth doesn't have what it takes. Or to use other sports, with his power Lebron James doesn't have with it takes. Without his speed Usain Bolt wouldn't have made it. His long game is by far the strongest aspect of his game, and it's probably the best long game in the world, so you can't decide to exclude that when talking about how good / not good he really is.

I think thats a selection of poor analogies tbf.
Sprinting is sprinting, its about how fast you can run, end of.

Golf isnt about hitting the ball as far as you can, its about hitting it as few times as possible. The biggest factor in this is the short game and putting.
You said it yourself, he doesnt have a it at the moment.

There are plenty of people who think that Spieth doesnt have much once he doesnt hole everything from 25 feet out.

I think, at the moment, his long game is keeping him somewhat competitive, but other than some streaky "less bad" approach/putting weeks, its not enough at his supposed level.

OEP

Maybe Spieth doesn't have much when you take that away, but what's the point in taking that away when he frequently does have it?

It's still a stupid way of discussing how good a player is. If Tiger didn't have his short game, he wouldn't have been dominant etc. , the list goes on. If you take the strongest part of any sports person's game away, obviously they're not going to be very good.

ligerdub

Rikand wrote: »

Or its random and sometimes players have good days and sometimes they don't.

Jordan spieth had a great final round last year and a **** one this year with the first breath of wind they had.

Is spieth a good golfer because he didn't handle the wind but Rory is **** because he did

I'm just going to leave this here and that'll be the end of the argument from my side (until it inevitably is brought up again)

http://en.espn.co.uk/golf/sport/story/101513.html

If he says it himself I'm not going to argue it with him. I mean who knows his game better than he does, certainly not me or anyone else on here. There are a couple of caveats to this of course, one being the passage of time, but it doesn't really seem like anything has changed in his approach in the time since.

McIlroy was the player I most wanted to win yesterday, so I'm not coming at this from a negative point of view.

One thing to consider about this years Open, and indeed last years, was that there wasn't really much penalty in missing the fairway. Players were able to advance balls to greens from the rough quite easily. With that in mind there was no real problem in hitting tee shots that missed fairways. The crucial thing was not going into the bunkers, something which was reasonably tricky this year when the course was playing lightning quick on days 1 and 2. He therefore didn't have to play crafty golf with the likes of a driving iron to do well this week.

charlieIRL

kiers47 wrote: »

Not bad for a hacker with just a big drive :pac:

who can't putt!!

Russman

How can 14th (or was it 16th) in putting for the week not be considered a good putting display overall ? By what standards are we judging here ?

I'd argue it was his long game that got him into plenty of trouble on days 1 & 2 and his recoveries saved him. I lost count of how many times I saw him hitting it out of the hay on Thursday & Friday.

There's no doubt his long game is the strength, only a fool would deny that, but, seriously, the guy has won almost everything there is to win in the game, bar obviously the Masters, the rest of his game isn't that bad.

The problem with the tour stats is that its tiny, tiny margins - e.g. the difference between 20th and 80th in proximity to the hole on the PGA tour is less than 2 feet. Of course they'd all like to hit it 2 feet closer, but while its true that there are 60 players between those spots on the list, its a bit dramatic or almost misleading to suggest player in 80th is much worse than the guy in 20th - he's worse for sure, but its all relative, its not like the guy in 80th is hitting into lakes and the guy in 20th is stiffing it all the time.

sReq | uTeK

fullstop wrote: »

So this is the fella that won the West of Ireland and Irish Close at 16 years old, Silver medal in The Open at 18, won on the EuropeanTour at 19 and reached world number 1 at 23? And all he can do is hit it far? Riiight.

Yup, narrowly missed out in in the lead role of happy gilmore, Adam Sandler could just drive it longer. Shame, Rory would have been a great comedian, I mean look how he's fooled most of us into thinking that he's actually a golfer.....with 4 majors.

sReq | uTeK

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont disagree.
There is no reason why he cant improve his wedge play and putting, other golfers have (DJ as an example of someone who turned their wedge game around). The question is does he want it enough?



I think thats a selection of poor analogies tbf.
Sprinting is sprinting, its about how fast you can run, end of.

Golf isnt about hitting the ball as far as you can, its about hitting it as few times as possible. The biggest factor in this is the short game and putting.
You said it yourself, he doesnt have a it at the moment.

There are plenty of people who think that Spieth doesnt have much once he doesnt hole everything from 25 feet out.

I think, at the moment, his long game is keeping him somewhat competitive, but other than some streaky "less bad" approach/putting weeks, its not enough at his supposed level.

ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahh, god every statement you make brightens my day but lessens my existence.

Webbs

Russman wrote: »

How can 14th (or was it 16th) in putting for the week not be considered a good putting display overall ? By what standards are we judging here ?

I'd argue it was his long game that got him into plenty of trouble on days 1 & 2 and his recoveries saved him. I lost count of how many times I saw him hitting it out of the hay on Thursday & Friday.

There's no doubt his long game is the strength, only a fool would deny that, but, seriously, the guy has won almost everything there is to win in the game, bar obviously the Masters, the rest of his game isn't that bad.

The problem with the tour stats is that its tiny, tiny margins - e.g. the difference between 20th and 80th in proximity to the hole on the PGA tour is less than 2 feet. Of course they'd all like to hit it 2 feet closer, but while its true that there are 60 players between those spots on the list, its a bit dramatic or almost misleading to suggest player in 80th is much worse than the guy in 20th - he's worse for sure, but its all relative, its not like the guy in 80th is hitting into lakes and the guy in 20th is stiffing it all the time.

But this has to be tied in with their %ages putting over certain distances. From 6 feet is around 70% on PGA tour at 8 feet thats down to around 55%. So tiny margins have big consequences over a 4 round tournament if you cant hit it close.
This is where I think Rory is at his weakest not so much the putting which is average but his wedge play. He doesnt seem to have a plan b apart from hit it high and hard. How often do you see him furthest off the tee but putting first in a 3 ball.
Case in point was his 80 yd? shot into bunker beyond the pin on the 2nd. If a single figure hell most golfers had done that we would be annoyed. its a flick of a controlled wedge yet he went at it full bore almost

Pogue eile

Someone get Greebo a digging up shovel

newport2

Pogue eile wrote: »

Someone get Greebo a digging up shovel

Brings back memories......

GreeBo

OEP wrote: »

Maybe Spieth doesn't have much when you take that away, but what's the point in taking that away when he frequently does have it?

The point is that there isn't a Jordan Spieth thread where he is being heralded as the greatest golfer in the world.

OEP wrote: »

It's still a stupid way of discussing how good a player is. If Tiger didn't have his short game, he wouldn't have been dominant etc. , the list goes on. If you take the strongest part of any sports person's game away, obviously they're not going to be very good.

You mean if Tiger didnt have his long game, short game, iron play & putting?

This is my point.
You guys are saying Rory is this amazing player but only 1 aspect of his game is really amazing, his long game. Most of the rest of it is *very* suspect.

I have no issue with McIlroy, I have an issue with people on here talking him up as the best player and losing it with anyone who disagrees, even if the PGA Tour facts backup the obvious limitations to his game.

Russman

Webbs wrote: »

But this has to be tied in with their %ages putting over certain distances. From 6 feet is around 70% on PGA tour at 8 feet thats down to around 55%. So tiny margins have big consequences over a 4 round tournament if you cant hit it close.
This is where I think Rory is at his weakest not so much the putting which is average but his wedge play. He doesnt seem to have a plan b apart from hit it high and hard. How often do you see him furthest off the tee but putting first in a 3 ball.
Case in point was his 80 yd? shot into bunker beyond the pin on the 2nd. If a single figure hell most golfers had done that we would be annoyed. its a flick of a controlled wedge yet he went at it full bore almost

I absolutely agree with that. His wedge game is poor for his level of golf.
Personally I think the 2nd hole yesterday wasn't all that bad, I think he played the knock down shot but just hit it too hard, there seemed to be a good flight on it. I'd more concerned with the wedge shot he hit into 12th after that huge drive, and then to compound it with a 3 putt, it wasn't his putting that cost that shot IMO, it was the wedge to 50 feet !

GreeBo

newport2 wrote: »

Brings back memories......

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahh, god every statement you make brightens my day but lessens my existence.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Yup, narrowly missed out in in the lead role of happy gilmore, Adam Sandler could just drive it longer. Shame, Rory would have been a great comedian, I mean look how he's fooled most of us into thinking that he's actually a golfer.....with 4 majors.

charlieIRL wrote: »

who can't putt!!

I'll leave you to it lads.
Don't forget to clean up the circle when you are done.

downthemiddle

newport2 wrote: »

Brings back memories......

Any of them good?

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

You mean if Tiger didnt have his long game, short game, iron play & putting?

You guys are saying Rory is this amazing player but only 1 aspect of his game is really amazing, his long game. Most of the rest of it is *very* suspect.

You're not seriously suggesting Tiger's long game was ever good ? (I assume you mean driving, as you've highlighted iron play separately ?)

"Most of the rest of it is very suspect" - come on Greebo, that's BS. I think you're being a bit harsh to be honest. There are plenty of aspects of Rory's game apart from driving where he is as good as pretty much anyone - for instance his bunker play is exceptional, and very underrated, as is his chipping/pitching around the green (as opposed to wedge approaches where he's often dire).

Most of the analysts you see on TV, many commentators, fans etc (granted not all of them) reckon he's the player with the best "best" game of the current generation. There must be something to it. I'd argue 4 majors is a more important stat than any . Maybe he's not the best player to you, or to me, but there's no way of defining who is. You have to also think of x-factor or wow factor. I know I'd rather watch a Rory (or indeed a DJ, or a Seve from back in the day) than a Speith or a Zach Johnson, and I've nothing against those guys, they are exceptional players, but the real stars have something different about them IMHO.

sReq | uTeK

GreeBo wrote: »

The point is that there isn't a Jordan Spieth thread where he is being heralded as the greatest golfer in the world.




You mean if Tiger didnt have his long game, short game, iron play & putting?

This is my point.
You guys are saying Rory is this amazing player but only 1 aspect of his game is really amazing, his long game. Most of the rest of it is *very* suspect.

I have no issue with McIlroy, I have an issue with people on here talking him up as the best player and losing it with anyone who disagrees, even if the PGA Tour facts backup the obvious limitations to his game.

I think you're missing the point that since this threads inception back in 2013, Rory has been world number one a cumulative total of 93 weeks, 23 more than DJ who is currently on 70. To me, that would suggest that since this thread, he has been, over that time period the best golfer in the world. Ergo, this thread and the lauding being done is justified.

Or do you only use and achknowledge stats that work for you and ignore the blindingly obvious stats that counteract your entire argument.

knowing how much of a stat man you're, I'm sure you'll agree, they don't lie.

stockdam

Some comments here are a bit laughable. McIlroy came joint 2nd which is a great acheivement. Yes he missed a few putts that I think he should have holed but other than Molinari, most of the other top 10 could say that.
Yes he has short-comings but so has every other player. McIlroy isn't a grinder and when his game is off then he looks poor......but when his game is on he's as good as any other player to watch.

stockdam

Some comments here are a bit laughable. McIlroy came joint 2nd which is a great acheivement. Yes he missed a few putts that I think he should have holed but other than Molinari, most of the other top 10 could say that.
Yes he has short-comings but so has every other player. McIlroy isn't a grinder and when his game is off then he looks poor......but when his game is on he's as good as any other player to watch.

diegocosta99

He has the most beautiful swing I have ever seen. That's enough for me. It looks as if he's lost the feel a little in his hands which can happen and is never pleasant but explains to poor play from 140 yards in and the putting. Molinari was the same for a long time and fixed it. I have very confidence that the same will happen for Rory - sometimes it can change after just one round. He has so much natural talent that he has another 15 years at the top if he stays fit.

charlieIRL

Let’s keep this discussion civil please.

davo10

Keano wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EuropeanTour/status/1021374024386039810

Using money earned as a barometer for achievement is a bit crass, considering how prize money in even minor tournaments can be huge and many golfers we never heard of earn millions on tour.. (I remember reading a couple of years ago about the Justin Timberlake tourney in LV having a first prize of over $1m) He just pulled ahead of a very good golfer who has never won a major. I have only heard one golfer brag about how much money he has earned, ironically enough it was Mcillroy with that equally classy tweet about having earned €200m. Winning will always be the measure of success, not the 100k you pick up for being 10th.

The great David Toms has earned more than that on the PGA tour, though I do realise the above tweet is European Tour only and McIllroy has earned more on the PGA, it puts into perspective how prize money is a poor measure of achievement, except if you are the wife or a bank manager.

Anywho, one more chance at a major or it's another underwhelming, barren major year for McIllroy.