Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

GreeBo

I don't think every player needs a caddy, nicklaus didn't for example, but i think some players need that influence.
Jack would never get himself into the mental situation where a caddy would have helped

Dav010

Pretty good article.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/49154783

Pissartist

I don’t buy into the caddy thing, there is a reason they only get 10%, the problem is between the ears in my opinion, it’s not talent, so desire ? Hunger ? Mental strength ? I guess with his millions and 4 majors he could trot out the George best line ‘where did it all go wrong’

GreeBo

Pissartist wrote: »

I don’t buy into the caddy thing, there is a reason they only get 10%, the problem is between the ears in my opinion, it’s not talent, so desire ? Hunger ? Mental strength ? I guess with his millions and 4 majors he could trot out the George best line ‘where did it all go wrong’

Maybe that 10% is the difference between 90% and 100%.

harpsman

Dav010 wrote: »

I’d have to disagree with the posters who downplay the importance of good caddies, some need them more than others. Though Mcilroy defended JP at times by saying having a friend on tour is more important than a caddy, I think to curb his natural instinct to always go for the pin rather than play safe when it is called for, he needs a caddy more than a friend.

Shane and Bo know each other for years, but on the 14 on Saturday when Lowry was in the rough, it was Bo who told him what needed to be done, play the percentage low shot up the left rather than the high draw.

Mcilroy’s been on tour since he was a teenager, he has a strong personality and he calls the shots off and on course, maybe it is now too late for him to take advice when he needs it. He needs a caddy more than he needs a friend right now.

I don’t think he loses that many shots through bad course management. When I watch him in majors, it’s just plain bad shots and not making any putts. What difference would any caddy have made at the 1st or 16th at portrush?

Anyway one week he’s saying he needs to be more conservative, the next he needs Togo back to playing aggressive. Would be difficult for a caddy to advise him if he keeps changing his mind

Dav010

harpsman wrote: »

I don’t think he loses that many shots through bad course management. When I watch him in majors, it’s just plain bad shots and not making any putts. What difference would any caddy have made at the 1st or 16th at portrush?

Anyway one week he’s saying he needs to be more conservative, the next he needs Togo back to playing aggressive. Would be difficult for a caddy to advise him if he keeps changing his mind

Totally agree, hard to know, but he might as well try something different. If others place such value on their caddy and acknowledge their importance to the players success, there must be something to it. It is strange listening to Speith being interviewed, he never talks of the singular “I”, it is always “we played well” or “we made a mistake there”, the caddy gets equal recognition, (seriously doubt equal money though)

Russman

Dav010 wrote: »

Totally agree, hard to know, but he might as well try something different. If others place such value on their caddy and acknowledge their importance to the players success, there must be something to it. It is strange listening to Speith being interviewed, he never talks of the singular “I”, it is always “we played well” or “we made a mistake there”, the caddy gets equal recognition, (seriously doubt equal money though)

Willett is, or at least was, the same. It was always "we" this and "we" that. Not 100% sure I buy into it tbh. I know Steve Williams made a big show a few years ago about how he was a great front runner bla, bla, but meh, I think the role is overstated sometimes.
While no doubt a caddie is important at certain moments, its hard to think of a shot last Sunday that different advice might have helped Rory on. Off the top of my head I can't remember a shot where I thought "now that was f--king stupid" as opposed to just being a bad shot, which happens. Maybe Harry Diamond is actually a very good caddie and Rory just didn't play well ? I think Rory needs to look at himself before he looks at the caddie tbh. Then again, historically its always been very hard to follow up a low round with another one, golf is hard.

neddynasty

Dav010 wrote: »

It is strange listening to Speith being interviewed, he never talks of the singular “I”, it is always “we played well” or “we made a mistake there”, the caddy gets equal recognition, (seriously doubt equal money though)

In interviews it's all "we" with Spieth. Sometimes different on the course though. At the US Open in Pebble he went in the water off the tee (i think it was the 8th). The next shot, his 3rd, he went way left of the green into thick rough. He turned to Greller and said "Two perfect shots, Michael, you got me in the water on one and over the green on the other.”

Maybe that was just deflecting after hitting poor shots but I've never heard McIlroy react in the same way. He seems to take all the responsibility on himself. Whether that's a good or bad thing I don't know.

PokeHerKing

Have to say that "we" bollix does my head in. Seems fake to me, real American customer service speak.

The player is taking the shots. You can still acknowledge your caddies input without the "we" $hite imho.

Jody Smoke

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Have to say that "we" bollix does my head in. Seems fake to me, real American customer service speak.

The player is taking the shots. You can still acknowledge your caddies input without the "we" $hite imho.

I'd love to see a player just have a new caddy every week and have him purely there for carrying the bag around and no more than that or if having a regular caddy be very blunt and say his caddy had no impact whatsoever.There is far too much emphasis on the caddy these days.

GreeBo

Jody Smoke wrote: »

I'd love to see a player just have a new caddy every week and have him purely there for carrying the bag around and no more than that or if having a regular caddy be very blunt and say his caddy had no impact whatsoever.There is far too much emphasis on the caddy these days.

If the best golfers on the planet place value in a caddies input... who are we to disbelieve them?

Jody Smoke

GreeBo wrote: »

If the best golfers on the planet place value in a caddies input... who are we to disbelieve them?

I'm sure they have an impact but it seems to be overstated at times.

The last 2 tournaments Lee Westwood won he had his girlfriend as his caddy.

GreeBo

And maybe that's exactly what he needed at the time... caddy doesn't have to be helping you do anything other than have a good score... many things go into that

fullstop

GreeBo wrote: »

And maybe that's exactly what he needed at the time... caddy doesn't have to be helping you do anything other than have a good score... many things go into that

Have to agree with this. A good caddy knows when to shut up, when you need a kick up the arse, what to say and when to say it basically.

Telecaster58

Jody Smoke wrote: »

I'm sure they have an impact but it seems to be overstated at times.

The last 2 tournaments Lee Westwood won he had his girlfriend as his caddy.

Yes, on the European Tour which is the equivalent of the WEB.COM tour

gypsy79

Telecaster58 wrote: »

Yes, on the European Tour which is the equivalent of the WEB.COM tour

Absolute BS

I will pick the last 5 from each and compare the (SOF, winners points). I will even ignore majors and WGT to help you


Korn Ferry Tour
Price Cutter Charity Championship presented by Dr Pepper (2, 14)
Pinnacle Bank Championship presented by Chevrolet (5,14)
TPC Colorado Championship at Heron Lakes (5,14)
LECOM Health Challenge (2, 14)
Utah Championship presented by Zions Bank (4, 14)

Total (18, 70)

Europe
Aberdeen Standard Investments Scottish Open (309, 48)
Dubai Duty Free Irish Open (235, 42)
Estrella Damm N.A. Andalucía Masters hosted by the Sergio Garcia Foundation (94, 21)
BMW International Open (112, 26)
Belgian Knockout(33,24)

Total (571, 161)

So the European tour is either 31 or 2.3 times better than the Korn Ferry Tour. Much closer to 31 times better as SOF is much better measure of the talent at an event!

In fact it seems unfair that Korn Ferry Tour winners get a flat 14 points given the differential in SOF

abff

gypsy79 wrote: »

Absolute BS

I will pick the last 5 from each and compare the (SOF, winners points). I will even ignore majors and WGT to help you


Korn Ferry Tour
Price Cutter Charity Championship presented by Dr Pepper (2, 14)
Pinnacle Bank Championship presented by Chevrolet (5,14)
TPC Colorado Championship at Heron Lakes (5,14)
LECOM Health Challenge (2, 14)
Utah Championship presented by Zions Bank (4, 14)

Total (18, 70)

Europe
Aberdeen Standard Investments Scottish Open (309, 48)
Dubai Duty Free Irish Open (235, 42)
Estrella Damm N.A. Andalucía Masters hosted by the Sergio Garcia Foundation (94, 21)
BMW International Open (112, 26)
Belgian Knockout(33,24)

Total (571, 161)

So the European tour is either 31 or 2.3 times better than the Korn Ferry Tour. Much closer to 31 times better as SOF is much better measure of the talent at an event!

In fact it seems unfair that Korn Ferry Tour winners get a flat 14 points given the differential in SOF

I was about to post something similar! Thanks for saving me the trouble.

I think telecaster58 is the clear leader in this week's competition for the most inaccurate comment of the week.

Mind you, there tends to be an inverse proportionality between the certainty with which people make comments and the accuracy of those comments. So I guess we shouldn't be all that surprised.

First Up

abff wrote:

I think telecaster58 is the clear leader in this week's competition for the most inaccurate comment of the week.

I'd have thought the words Ryder Cup would settle that pretty quickly.

gypsy79

First Up wrote: »

I'd have thought the words Ryder Cup would settle that pretty quickly.

No as emphatically as the actual facts!!

Most of the players on the European tour so in fact play mostly in the States

Seve OB

gypsy79 wrote: »

No as emphatically as the actual facts!!

Most of the players on the European tour so in fact play mostly in the States

Oh I wouldn’t think so. Most of the top players yes, but not most of the players. They need high rankings to get to play over there unless by invite which are not readily given out to the journeymen.

Dr. Bre

1. PGA Tour
2. European Tour
3. Web.com

In my view

gypsy79

Dr. Bre wrote: »

1. PGA Tour
2. European Tour
3. Web.com

In my view

PGA Tour > European Tour >>>>>> Web.com

just to be clear

Remind me

Rory taking the piss out of Kuchar about being a tight bast*rd getting good coverage on social media

Seve OB

Remind me wrote: »

Rory taking the piss out of Kuchar about being a tight bast*rd getting good coverage on social media

link?

Remind me

Sorry on the phone and it won’t work for me.

On stage talking about fedex points and money and Rory slagging Kuchar about how much money means to him.

Seve OB

Seve OB wrote: »

link?

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/2019-northern-trust-mcilroy-jabs-back-kuchar

LuckyGent88

Had to give himself a two shot penalty on the par 3 14th. Ended up as a great up and down for a double bogey.

He was in the bunker and thought there was a pebble behind the ball, just went to pick it up when he realised it was a clump of sand. The piece of sand wasn’t moved or lie wasn’t improved but he called for rules official and got a two shot penalty.
Harsh enough.

kevgaa

Does the rule not have the word deliberately in it? Very harsh penalty in my opinion.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/moving-or-touching-loose-impediments-or-sand-in-a-bunker.html

HighLine

It's actually an interesting one and I would say not only is the ruling harsh but also inaccurate. The rule is bi-fold and Rory didn't do either IMO.

The 1st part... the action wasn't done to test the condition of the sand.

With regards to the line of play (2nd part).. it specifically states with "a club". He didn't touch it with his club.

1) Deliberately touch sand in the bunker with a hand, club, rake or other object to test the condition of the sand to learn information for the next stroke, or

2) Touch sand in the bunker with a club:
In the area right in front of or right behind the ball (except as allowed under Rule 7.1a in fairly searching for a ball or under Rule 12.2a in removing a loose impediment or movable obstruction),
In making a practice swing, or
In making the backswing for a stroke.

blackcard

HighLine wrote: »

It's actually an interesting one and I would say not only is the ruling harsh but also inaccurate. The rule is bi-fold and Rory didn't do either IMO.

The 1st part... the action wasn't done to test the condition of the sand.

With regards to the line of play (2nd part).. it specifically states with "a club". He didn't touch it with his club.

1) Deliberately touch sand in the bunker with a hand, club, rake or other object to test the condition of the sand to learn information for the next stroke, or

2) Touch sand in the bunker with a club:
In the area right in front of or right behind the ball (except as allowed under Rule 7.1a in fairly searching for a ball or under Rule 12.2a in removing a loose impediment or movable obstruction),
In making a practice swing, or
In making the backswing for a stroke.

Seems like an incorrect penalty but hard to see officials overruling themselves