Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

Ivefoundgod

kippy wrote: »

In fairness, I don't think he ever goes out with the intention of NOT being close to the lead.....

I'd hope not but his first round this week, particularly the back 9 was terrible stuff. The shot into the water on 16 was like he wasn't even bothered anymore.

Russman

Ivefoundgod wrote: »

Yeah I don't think it would have made a difference this year but my point was that if he could keep himself closer to the lead going into the final round of a major he has a good chance of putting others off by making an early charge. Similar to what Tiger did throughout his career and even last year with Molinaris collapse. We've seen players with a nice lead collapse on the back 9 of Augusta so often, I don't think it would have happened this year with DJ but say if Rory was -15 through 9 and DJ looked up and saw that after dropping those couple of shots on 4 and 5 yesterday, you never know what might have happened. Problem for Rory has been he's put himself out of contention too early to be a factor in the last round. Same applies to JT and Rahm, I think if either of those had been in a position to make a charge yesterday we might have had at least a bit of drama over the back 9 rather than the procession it turned into.

I think it probably wouldn't have made a difference, and we'll never know if having a bigger name within a shot or two would have phased DJ. But it might have made for more interesting viewing on a Sunday.

Worrying thing for me was to see Rory was dead last in strokes gained approaching the greens. For someone who was second in strokes gained off the tee, that's some shocking iron play. Also he was 9th in putting which is incredible for him, so 2nd off the tee and 9th in putting and not contending is a bit mad IMO. I think he was also top 10 around the greens.

Could it possibly be an equipment issue I wonder ? Highly unlikely you'd have to say. So what the heck is it ? The analysts are constantly talking about how much better he his when he has the sawn off finish rather than the flowing follow through with his short irons. Does he need a stronger coaching voice to beat this into him ? I dunno, he's so frustrating to follow.

Keano

I'm so bemused at people thinking Rory isn't that good. He is 31 years old and has won countless PGA, European Tour titles . He has 4 Majors and 2 FedEx cup titles but he has failed to one win the one major to complete the grand slam, oh wait there is so few that have but let's not look at how tough an ask that is but just call him average.

Russman

Russman wrote: »

Worrying thing for me was to see Rory was dead last in strokes gained approaching the greens. For someone who was second in strokes gained off the tee, that's some shocking iron play. Also he was 9th in putting which is incredible for him, so 2nd off the tee and 9th in putting and not contending is a bit mad IMO. I think he was also top 10 around the greens.

Could it possibly be an equipment issue I wonder ?

I dont think taylor made iron suit him as well. But he is stuck with them.

First Up

Deleted User wrote:

I dont think taylor made iron suit him as well. But he is stuck with them.

They will make his clubs to whatever specifications he wants. He sponsors the brand - that's all.

Russman

Is he still working with Michael Bannon ?
Butch Harmon mentioned on Sky that he was doing something with him. Wonder is it a permanent thing or just a stop gap because of the travel/COVID restrictions.

bailey99

Tiger had a 10 on the 12th. He then birdied give of the next six holes. That reaction is probably why tiger was the best ever. Ya the ten was a disaster and farcical but he reacts and showed mental strength, determination and more over the next ninety minutes when it didn't matter a dam what tiger did in reality.

When Rory hit the water on 16th on Thursday the toys had already been thrown out of the pram. He didn't give a damn, the fight was gone and he believed he was out of the tournament. Same as what a previous poster here saw.

To have three of the four majors before the age of 25, you are no longer measured against the Els or the Nick prices of this world, you are compared to tiger, player, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus. And rightly so.

Rory performances over the last 6 years had been really really poor by his own standards and ability. Bypass the fact that you might say he's Irish, yes he's good, but a lot of people, commentators, players, media and fans alike would say he has really underperformed and under delivered.

neddynasty

bailey99 wrote: »

When Rory hit the water on 16th on Thursday the toys had already been thrown out of the pram. He didn't give a damn, the fight was gone and he believed he was out of the tournament. Same as what a previous poster here saw.

I thought he looked like he was going to cry, the complete opposite of not giving a damn. He was playing terribly, having a bad day on the course and watching another major slip away. The fact he finished T5 showed to me he has plenty of fight in him.

PARlance

Keano wrote: »

I'm so bemused at people thinking Rory isn't that good. He is 31 years old and has won countless PGA, European Tour titles . He has 4 Majors and 2 FedEx cup titles but he has failed to one win the one major to complete the grand slam, oh wait there is so few that have but let's not look at how tough an ask that is but just call him average.

I don't think people think that Rory isn't that good. I think it's that people think he has been underachieving somewhat.

4 majors at 31 is good... but 4 Majors at 25 is even better and for someone to have achieved that and then to go 6 years without winning another Major is going to to lead to questions. Sure the fields may have gotten better etc etc but that's a big drop off and that shouldn't have you bemused surely?

Russman

bailey99 wrote: »

Tiger had a 10 on the 12th. He then birdied give of the next six holes. That reaction is probably why tiger was the best ever. Ya the ten was a disaster and farcical but he reacts and showed mental strength, determination and more over the next ninety minutes when it didn't matter a dam what tiger did in reality.

When Rory hit the water on 16th on Thursday the toys had already been thrown out of the pram. He didn't give a damn, the fight was gone and he believed he was out of the tournament. Same as what a previous poster here saw.

To have three of the four majors before the age of 25, you are no longer measured against the Els or the Nick prices of this world, you are compared to tiger, player, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus. And rightly so.

Rory performances over the last 6 years had been really really poor by his own standards and ability. Bypass the fact that you might say he's Irish, yes he's good, but a lot of people, commentators, players, media and fans alike would say he has really underperformed and under delivered.

I'd agree with all your post apart from this bit. I don't think he lost the head at all. If Rory's round one back nine (+3) on Friday morning was his "disaster", he made a very good recovery just 20 minutes later to shoot 66. Not terribly unlike Woods comeback from the 10, albeit over a slightly longer timeframe.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Russman wrote: »

I'd agree with all your post apart from this bit. I don't think he lost the head at all. If Rory's round one back nine (+3) on Friday morning was his "disaster", he made a very good recovery just 20 minutes later to shoot 66. Not terribly unlike Woods comeback from the 10, albeit over a slightly longer timeframe.

I agree, Bailey99 post doesn’t really compute for me.

Tiger makes a 10 on the 12th yet he shows mental strength to recover the way he did.

However, when McIlroy makes an error on the 16th on Thursday, he throws the toys out of the pram and believes he out of the tournament.

Nothing about the fact he proceeds to shoot the 2nd lowest score through the final 3 rounds. No mental strength there etc.

There just seems a lack of consistency in that conclusion.

yaboya1

I don't get why people think anyone else would collapse if Rory was in contention on Sunday.
He's been in the last group at the masters on more than one occasion and he was the one he collapsed every time.

blue note

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

I agree, Bailey99 post doesn’t really compute for me.

Tiger makes a 10 on the 12th yet he shows mental strength to recover the way he did.

However, when McIlroy makes an error on the 16th on Thursday, he throws the toys out of the pram and believes he out of the tournament.

Nothing about the fact he proceeds to shoot the 2nd lowest score through the final 3 rounds. No mental strength there etc.

There just seems a lack of consistency in that conclusion.

This post is spot on. The narrative is whatever you want it to be. At the moment we're all looking at rory and saying that he just doesn't have what Dustin does these days. But he has twice as many majors at 5 years younger. And had an exceptional year last year.

In fairness, he hasn't quite gotten the results we'd like him to have over the last few years. But people lose rationality when talking about him.

kippy

PARlance wrote: »

I don't think people think that Rory isn't that good. I think it's that people think he has been underachieving somewhat.

4 majors at 31 is good... but 4 Majors at 25 is even better and for someone to have achieved that and then to go 6 years without winning another Major is going to to lead to questions. Sure the fields may have gotten better etc etc but that's a big drop off and that shouldn't have you bemused surely?

I know I am speaking to the converted here, but golf is such a tough game. There are so many aspects to it. To be amoungst the top players in the world consistently for a decade or more is no mean feat.
You only have to look at the experts try pick a winner of any of these events to see how many players can win of these on their day or look at the myriad of players who have a good year or two over the past few decades and then dissappear or move down the pecking order fast.
He is still amongst the top golfers in world and one of it's highest earners ever.

At this stage one would have to 100 believe that any issues are mental and/or his approach.
Maybe he has gotten complacent (he has it made) maybe it's the added pressure, maybe he overthinks things?
Best of luck to him and his family.

Dav010

blue note wrote: »

This post is spot on. The narrative is whatever you want it to be. At the moment we're all looking at rory and saying that he just doesn't have what Dustin does these days. But he has twice as many majors at 5 years younger. And had an exceptional year last year.

In fairness, he hasn't quite gotten the results we'd like him to have over the last few years. But people lose rationality when talking about him.

It’s not being irrational to believe he hasn’t achieved what he/we thought he would. If you said in 2014 that another 24 Majors would go by without him looking like he would win again, you would have been laughed at. Since Mcilroy’s two year streak, we have had the Speith and Keopke streaks, the fields are better now, Mcilroys length advantage is no longer what it was, so he can’t give a 5-10 shot advantage to these guys on the first day. If he is good enough, he will win, if he isn’t, he has still had a great career.

Keano

PARlance wrote: »

I don't think people think that Rory isn't that good. I think it's that people think he has been underachieving somewhat.

4 majors at 31 is good... but 4 Majors at 25 is even better and for someone to have achieved that and then to go 6 years without winning another Major is going to to lead to questions. Sure the fields may have gotten better etc etc but that's a big drop off and that shouldn't have you bemused surely?

No doubt he should have more, he even acknowledges that but if he wasn't winning other tournaments you could say something.
Rory's record around Augusta isn't that bad, people just remember the blow outs. He's had 6 top 10's in 12 starts around one of the toughest courses in the world. Will he eventually win around there, will Mayo ever win Sam? Who knows!

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Keano wrote: »

No doubt he should have more, he even acknowledges that but if he wasn't winning other tournaments you could say something.
Rory's record around Augusta isn't that bad, people just remember the blow outs. He's had 6 top 10's in 12 starts around one of the toughest courses in the world. Will he eventually win around there, will Mayo ever win Sam? Who knows!

As a mod you should know better than bringing that in here, that type of wild speculation belongs here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

PARlance

Keano wrote: »

No doubt he should have more, he even acknowledges that but if he wasn't winning other tournaments you could say something.
Rory's record around Augusta isn't that bad, people just remember the blow outs. He's had 6 top 10's in 12 starts around one of the toughest courses in the world. Will he eventually win around there, will Mayo ever win Sam? Who knows!

I didn't mention his Augusta record in my post, I was just referring to Majors. Majors are the currency that the great players are valued upon, for the most part. Rory is a great player but the lack of a Major in 6 years is something that will rightly be questioned.

I also didn't mention Mayo in my post.

wildrover444

I think no matter what the discussion about Rory and major's is, that when masters comes round again and people ask can he win it. The answer will be come back after the first round and then we might be better able to answer the question better.

charlieIRL

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

As a mod you should know better than bringing that in here, that type of wild speculation belongs here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

relax will you.

blue note

PARlance wrote: »

I didn't mention his Augusta record in my post, I was just referring to Majors. Majors are the currency that the great players are valued upon, for the most part. Rory is a great player but the lack of a Major in 6 years is something that will rightly be questioned.

I also didn't mention Mayo in my post.

It's a tangent, but I actually find the casual abuse mayo get hilarious. They've been the second best team in the country so often. If it wasn't for this Dublin team they'd definitely have an all Ireland. Yet, instead of getting respect for it, they're a running joke for people or teams or whoever not winning. Worldwide pandemic - hold on, I've a mayo meme for that. Us presidential election - I've one for that too. Tragic death in the news - probably time for a joke about mayo!

Thankfully they tend to have a decent sense if humour and will laugh at it. To be honest I always feel a kinship with them as a Waterford man. They're the only county who have endured more hardship than us.

Keano

PARlance wrote: »

I didn't mention his Augusta record in my post, I was just referring to Majors. Majors are the currency that the great players are valued upon, for the most part. Rory is a great player but the lack of a Major in 6 years is something that will rightly be questioned.

I also didn't mention Mayo in my post.

As Augusta was fresh on the mind I assumed, wrongly you were discussing that.

So if he retired from the game now would be considering one of the greats? You said in your post it's what great players are measured on? Rory turned pro when he was 18 I believe? Since then, who has has won more majors than him?

charlieIRL

blue note wrote: »

It's a tangent, but I actually find the casual abuse mayo get hilarious. They've been the second best team in the country so often. If it wasn't for this Dublin team they'd definitely have an all Ireland. Yet, instead of getting respect for it, they're a running joke for people or teams or whoever not winning. Worldwide pandemic - hold on, I've a mayo meme for that. Us presidential election - I've one for that too. Tragic death in the news - probably time for a joke about mayo!

Thankfully they tend to have a decent sense if humour and will laugh at it. To be honest I always feel a kinship with them as a Waterford man. They're the only county who have endured more hardship than us.

can someone direct me to the abuse Mayo gets on the golf forum?? I must have missed it. Thanks.

PARlance

Keano wrote: »

As Augusta was fresh on the mind I assumed, wrongly you were discussing that.

So if he retired from the game now would be considering one of the greats? You said in your post it's what great players are measured on? Rory turned pro when he was 18 I believe? Since then, who has has won more majors than him?

Well yes, I said he was a great player in the post you quoted. 4 Majors = Great in my book.
(I wouldn't limit it to Majors but it is the main yardstick.)

But, and there is a but.... 4 majors by 25 and then no more in the last 6 years has to be questioned. As I said in my original post, fields have probably gotten more competitive in that time but the fact that he hasn't added another one would have me say that he probably should be GREATER by now.

Put it this way, if someone said he wouldn't win another one (for a considerable time) after getting his 4th... that person would have been laughed at 6 years ago. The talk was of his getting close to Tiger or Jack at the time!

blue note

charlieIRL wrote: »

can someone direct me to the abuse Mayo gets on the golf forum?? I must have missed it. Thanks.

It's not a common joke here, but the post I quoted linking to the conspiracy theory forum is a joke about them not winning all Irelands. What I find funny is how often a joke about them not winning all Irelands comes up, regardless of what you're talking about. The pandemic was a big one of course. I got a text when the British open was cancelled to say that they'd cancelled the British open, declared mayo runners up.

blue note

Dav010 wrote: »

It’s not being irrational to believe he hasn’t achieved what he/we thought he would. If you said in 2014 that another 24 Majors would go by without him looking like he would win again, you would have been laughed at. Since Mcilroy’s two year streak, we have had the Speith and Keopke streaks, the fields are better now, Mcilroys length advantage is no longer what it was, so he can’t give a 5-10 shot advantage to these guys on the first day. If he is good enough, he will win, if he isn’t, he has still had a great career.

Lots of what is said is irrational. When tiger has a ten and then bounced back I heard people say that that's why tiger is tiger, whereas Rory would never respond to a set back like that. Whereas when Rory has a setback like that with that awful opening round and then bounces back like he did over the next three days, it's an example of him doing it when it doesn't matter.

Or the praise Dustin got going into this tournament even though he'd only won one major. There were questions over his bottle, but not half the questions that there were over 4 time major winner rory.

Or the general questions over how great he's been. Since coming onto the scene, one guy has as many majors as him, I think he's second for wgcs, 3rd all time for weeks at world number 1, won two tour championships, the players championship, his national open. And his worst slump was to about 12 in the world. Low by his standards, but I'd hazard a guess that no-one else has maintained a ranking as high as him in that time. Since he's been a pro, he's been the clear best in the world over that time as far as I can see. He hasn't been the best continuously the best, others have taken that crown during that time. Dustin now for sure. But his record overall speaks for itself, even if he hasn't been the best golfer in the world a lot of the time over the last few years.

PARlance

Keano wrote: »

As Augusta was fresh on the mind I assumed, wrongly you were discussing that.

So if he retired from the game now would be considering one of the greats?

To bring Augusta back into it and address that "retired now" question I missed, yes he would be considered a great... but not one of the true greats!

I think that should be reserved for the few who win the grand slam.

So in summary, for me:
He's Great, probably should be Greater by now considering his early career, and won't be a True Great until he gets a green jacket.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

charlieIRL wrote: »

relax will you.

Assumed this was a joke in response, then I wasn't so sure but yes just to confirm, my link as Blue Note said was just a standard Mayo needle.

blue note

PARlance wrote: »

To bring Augusta back into it and address that "retired now" question I missed, yes he would be considered a great... but not one of the true greats!

I think that should be reserved for the few who win the grand slam.

So in summary, for me:
He's Great, probably should be Greater by now considering his early career, and won't be a True Great until he gets a green jacket.

If you need them all to be a true great, you can knock Phil Mickelson, Seve, Faldo, Tom Watson and Arnold Palmer off that list. Do you actually think that?

AOH77A

No doubting Rory at his best is match for anyone. But his under performance in the majors for the last few years is a symptom of deeper issues.

The problem may be mental as this stage. Bad start and then plays great for top 5 finish is the norm. No real pressure as there is no expectation of actually winning.

If he does make it into the mix on the final day of a major not sure he what it takes to finish under the pressure.