Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

Barnaboy

He needs to figure out how he can play without fear. Perfect example of what he can do on Sunday. The guy is just ridiculously talented. He is underperforming and he is well aware of it. He desperately needs a win for confidence. I really hope he figures it out. Love watching him at his best.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Barnaboy wrote: »

He needs to figure out how he can play without fear. Perfect example of what he can do on Sunday. The guy is just ridiculously talented. He is underperforming and he is well aware of it. He desperately needs a win for confidence. I really hope he figures it out. Love watching him at his best.

I understand the confidence people discuss when it comes to a major because he has a long barren patch but I don’t think he lacks confidence elsewhere.

He’s one full season removed from being viewed as the best player in the world.
He won 3 tournaments & the FedEx Cup in 2019. Additionally he won the Byron/Vardon Award & PGA Player of the Year.

Dav010

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

I understand the confidence people discuss when it comes to a major because he has a long barren patch but I don’t think he lacks confidence elsewhere.

He’s one full season removed from being viewed as the best player in the world.
He won 3 tournaments & the FedEx Cup in 2019. Additionally he won the Byron/Vardon Award & PGA Player of the Year.

How he won the player of the year 2019 over Keopke is a mystery.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

He was the best player in 2019 and the PGA decided to award him for it instead of over-weighting majors in order to award it to Koepka.

Yes, I was surprised too but pleasantly so.

bren2001

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

He was the best player in 2019 and the PGA decided to award him for it instead of over-weighting majors in order to award it to Koepka.

Yes, I was surprised too but pleasantly so.

Brookes won the PGA Championship.

Rory won the Players and the Tour Championship and was the Fed Ex champion. These are tournaments run by the PGA tour unlike any of the four majors. I think any pro would prefer one major over Rorys year but he had a great year. I can see why the PGA tour would give the award to him.

He won in Canada too that year but nobody cares about that (really).

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

bren2001 wrote: »

Brookes won the PGA Championship.

Rory won the Players and the Tour Championship and was the Fed Ex champion. These are tournaments run by the PGA tour unlike any of the four majors. I think any pro would prefer one major over Rorys year but he had a great year. I can see why the PGA tour would give the award to him.

He won in Canada too that year but nobody cares about that (really).

The Jack Nicklaus Trophy (PGA Tour Player of the Year) which Rory won is voted on by his peers by secret ballot.

Brook's won the PGA Player of the Year the same which isn't as highly coveted, it considers prize money, scoring average and a few other pieces.

I'm not saying Rory wouldn't have traded in what he won that year for a major but he's correct when he says many players feel the majors are over-weighted.

The fact he won the Jack Nicklaus Trophy somewhat supports that.

Pdoghue

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

The Jack Nicklaus Trophy (PGA Tour Player of the Year) which Rory won is voted on by his peers by secret ballot.

Brook's won the PGA Player of the Year the same which isn't as highly coveted, it considers prize money, scoring average and a few other pieces.

I'm not saying Rory wouldn't have traded in what he won that year for a major but he's correct when he says many players feel the majors are over-weighted.

The fact he won the Jack Nicklaus Trophy somewhat supports that.

What does this mean? Sounds like a bit of a cop out for Rory and others. I read an interview with Rory in the Indo last year where he was whinging that people put the majors up on a pedestal and he feels that the WGCs, Players, Fedex, etc. should be on same level. Loser talk from Rory there. It'd be a shame if the majors were diluted in importance.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Pdoghue wrote: »

What does this mean? Sounds like a bit of a cop out for Rory and others. I read an interview with Rory in the Indo last year where he was whinging that people put the majors up on a pedestal and he feels that the WGCs, Players, Fedex, etc. should be on same level. Loser talk from Rory there. It'd be a shame if the majors were diluted in importance.

Well it means what you effectively alluded to.

I don't think he said they should be on the same level but he has suggested they're weighted too heavily by people when determining the best players.

I understand their perspective, often they're compared to the majors in Men's Tennis but the difference there is that the format of a golf major doesn't differ from most tournaments.
In Men's Tennis, the format goes from best of 3 to the best of 5 which is a fundamental change.

As I said, I don't necessarily think Rory wouldn't trade in all his wins in 2019 for one major but clearly there is a feeling amongst the actual players that winning majors isn't everything.
They voted for McIlroy when Koepka won two that year?

DuckSlice

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

Well it means what you effectively alluded to.

I don't think he said they should be on the same level but he has suggested they're weighted too heavily by people when determining the best players.

I understand their perspective, often they're compared to the majors in Men's Tennis but the difference there is that the format of a golf major doesn't differ from most tournaments.
In Men's Tennis, the format goes from best of 3 to the best of 5 which is a fundamental change.

As I said, I don't necessarily think Rory wouldn't trade in all his wins in 2019 for one major but clearly there is a feeling amongst the actual players that winning majors isn't everything.
They voted for McIlroy when Koepka won two that year?

Totally agree with this. Monty rarely gets a mention and he dominated the European tour for years.

Rory is just trying to downplay majors though so there isn't as much pressure on him winning one.

Pdoghue

Hold on..'Monty rarely gets a mention'??!! In what context? Like so many internet arguments, one point of view is exaggerated to make a point. Monty is rightly lauded as being one of the greatest of all time, but he hasn't a major on his CV, a big omission.

I'd make the argument that because of all these other big money events compared to years gone by, Rory and other players can downplay the majors on the grounds that they can have a successful year by winning some of those big money events. I don't think he would be underplaying the majors if he had won one in 7 years. Majors are and should be the supreme test in golf. So what if the format is the same as other tournaments, the golf course can be set up tougher. You read what Nicklaus said about Norman in 1989, that he would dominate the game but not win many majors - a prescient prediction. Norman, Monty, Westwood and other underachievers in the majors have had flaws, shortcomings and mental fragilities in their games which prevented them from more success in the majors. I'd put Rory in that category. OK, he's won 4, but none from the age of 25 to 30, and for a guy of his immense natural ability, that's a poor return. Koepka on the other hand gets it about the majors, and says so unapologetically.

OEP

Pdoghue wrote: »

Hold on..'Monty rarely gets a mention'??!! In what context? Like so many internet arguments, one point of view is exaggerated to make a point. Monty is rightly lauded as being one of the greatest of all time, but he hasn't a major on his CV, a big omission.

I'd make the argument that because of all these other big money events compared to years gone by, Rory and other players can downplay the majors on the grounds that they can have a successful year by winning some of those big money events. I don't think he would be underplaying the majors if he had won one in 7 years. Majors are and should be the supreme test in golf. So what if the format is the same as other tournaments, the golf course can be set up tougher. You read what Nicklaus said about Norman in 1989, that he would dominate the game but not win many majors - a prescient prediction. Norman, Monty, Westwood and other underachievers in the majors have had flaws, shortcomings and mental fragilities in their games which prevented them from more success in the majors. I'd put Rory in that category. OK, he's won 4, but none from the age of 25 to 30, and for a guy of his immense natural ability, that's a poor return. Koepka on the other hand gets it about the majors, and says so unapologetically.

I'm not disagreeing that the majors should be weighted more but I am disagreeing with them being the supreme test of golf - only the US Open could claim that. Augusta has no rough and wide fairways, The Open is no different to any other links tournament and the USPGA is no different to any PGA Tour event. The only difference is the added pressure of them being a major.

Also Koepka may go onto win more but for now I wouldn't put him on any pedestal, his talk about not caring about any other tournaments is all bravado.

They should do a major like the amateur ones where you have stroke play qualifying and then match play, that would make it more of a test.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Pdoghue wrote: »

Hold on..'Monty rarely gets a mention'??!! In what context? Like so many internet arguments, one point of view is exaggerated to make a point. Monty is rightly lauded as being one of the greatest of all time, but he hasn't a major on his CV, a big omission.

I'd make the argument that because of all these other big money events compared to years gone by, Rory and other players can downplay the majors on the grounds that they can have a successful year by winning some of those big money events. I don't think he would be underplaying the majors if he had won one in 7 years. Majors are and should be the supreme test in golf. So what if the format is the same as other tournaments, the golf course can be set up tougher. You read what Nicklaus said about Norman in 1989, that he would dominate the game but not win many majors - a prescient prediction. Norman, Monty, Westwood and other underachievers in the majors have had flaws, shortcomings and mental fragilities in their games which prevented them from more success in the majors. I'd put Rory in that category. OK, he's won 4, but none from the age of 25 to 30, and for a guy of his immense natural ability, that's a poor return. Koepka on the other hand gets it about the majors, and says so unapologetically.

The differing format was just a point that I've heard raised before and it is valid because it creates a very definite demarcation, golf doesn't have that.

You lost me when you put Rory in the same category as Norman, Monty & Westwood even though he's won 4 majors but Koepka is a boss even though he's only won 4 majors too at the same age.

Koepka's focus on majors is better even though he's achieved the same amount but far less than Rory elsewhere?

Is it you think Rory is better than Koepka so he should have more?

Pdoghue

Do you not think that Augusta is a pretty intimidating golf course? Just no rough and wide fairways? What about the greens? Bryson thought he could get it around in 'his par' 68 there. Look at how well he did with that. The Open is just like any other links tournament? Wow.. I doubt the players agree with that. The majors are added pressure and courses set up very tough.

I do agree that one of the majors should be matchplay - the PGA used to be matchplay.

Yea, I think Rory has underachieved in the majors for his talent - Koepka has more of a winner's mentality.

DuckSlice

Pdoghue wrote: »

Hold on..'Monty rarely gets a mention'??!! In what context? Like so many internet arguments, one point of view is exaggerated to make a point. Monty is rightly lauded as being one of the greatest of all time, but he hasn't a major on his CV, a big omission.

I'd make the argument that because of all these other big money events compared to years gone by, Rory and other players can downplay the majors on the grounds that they can have a successful year by winning some of those big money events. I don't think he would be underplaying the majors if he had won one in 7 years. Majors are and should be the supreme test in golf. So what if the format is the same as other tournaments, the golf course can be set up tougher. You read what Nicklaus said about Norman in 1989, that he would dominate the game but not win many majors - a prescient prediction. Norman, Monty, Westwood and other underachievers in the majors have had flaws, shortcomings and mental fragilities in their games which prevented them from more success in the majors. I'd put Rory in that category. OK, he's won 4, but none from the age of 25 to 30, and for a guy of his immense natural ability, that's a poor return. Koepka on the other hand gets it about the majors, and says so unapologetically.

I'm holding on....

Who lauds him as one of the greatest? He wouldn't make many peoples list of top20 golfers of all time. If he had 2 less order of merit wins and 2 majors he would be considered a better golfer, but would he be a better golfer?

BTW I think Monty is one of the greats, and I never said he wasn't.

OEP

Pdoghue wrote: »

Do you not think that Augusta is a pretty intimidating golf course? Just no rough and wide fairways? What about the greens? Bryson thought he could get it around in 'his par' 68 there. Look at how well he did with that. The Open is just like any other links tournament? Wow.. I doubt the players agree with that. The majors are added pressure and courses set up very tough.

I do agree that one of the majors should be matchplay - the PGA used to be matchplay.

Yea, I think Rory has underachieved in the majors for his talent - Koepka has more of a winner's mentality.

Yea it has tough greens but what makes it more of a test than say The Memorial of the Honda Classic - in terms of test of a golf course and not the added pressure of a major.

Bryson doesn't win every week so that statement stands for every time he doesn't win.

Again, in terms of course setup, what's the difference between The Open and the Scottish Open or the Irish Open when it's on links?

The courses are not set up any tougher except for the US Open.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Pdoghue wrote: »

Do you not think that Augusta is a pretty intimidating golf course? Just no rough and wide fairways? What about the greens? Bryson thought he could get it around in 'his par' 68 there. Look at how well he did with that. The Open is just like any other links tournament? Wow.. I doubt the players agree with that. The majors are added pressure and courses set up very tough.

I do agree that one of the majors should be matchplay - the PGA used to be matchplay.

Yea, I think Rory has underachieved in the majors for his talent - Koepka has more of a winner's mentality.

Yeah of course I do but it's intimidating because it's Augusta and everything that comes with that historically not because it's an incredibly difficult course at that level.

There are more difficult courses, generally the US Open is set up in a far more difficult fashion.

Nobody is suggesting they're not worth more but I think, as do many others do, that some people overvalue them. It's a very subjective opinion.

I don't agree that Koepka has a greater winner's mentality, I find it hard to say that of someone who's also immensely talented but has won less than the person he's being compared to.

Pdoghue

etxp wrote: »

I'm holding on....

Who lauds him as one of the greatest? He wouldn't make many peoples list of top20 golfers of all time. If he had 2 less order of merit wins and 2 majors he would be considered a better golfer, but would he be a better golfer?

BTW I think Monty is one of the greats, and I never said he wasn't.

Great question. I think it's a moot point though. To have won 2 majors, he would have had to have been a better player than the player we consider him to be.

Pdoghue

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

Yeah of course I do but it's intimidating because it's Augusta and everything that comes with that historically not because it's an incredibly difficult course at that level.

Yep, that's the majors; tradition, history, pressure, course set-up.

OEP

Pdoghue wrote: »

Yep, that's the majors; tradition, history, pressure, course set-up.

Well no, not course set up in the case of 3 of the 4

Pdoghue

OEP wrote: »

Well no, not course set up in the case of 3 of the 4

Do you think Winged Foot was set up the same for the members as it was for the pros last year? Or Portrush 2 years ago for the Open?

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Pdoghue wrote: »

Yep, that's the majors; tradition, history, pressure, course set-up.

You were clearly suggesting the difficulty of majors is largely rooted in the difficulty of the golf course itself devoid of the other factors.

It's really not true that outside of the US Open that courses are set up tougher than the bulk of other events.

Pdoghue

Azalea Billions Griddle wrote: »

You were clearly suggesting the difficulty of majors is largely rooted in the difficulty of the golf course itself devoid of the other factors.

It's really not true that outside of the US Open that courses are set up tougher than the bulk of other events.

Apologies for not clarifying that. My point is that what makes a major a major, so to speak, is the combination of all those factors; history, tradition, course setup, media coverage, pressure, etc. For Rory to play lovely golf and win the Canadian Open is easier I'd argue than winning a major for all of the above reasons, even if the course for the Canadian Open is harder than a major course.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Pdoghue wrote: »

Apologies for not clarifying that. My point is that what makes a major a major, so to speak, is the combination of all those factors; history, tradition, course setup, media coverage, pressure, etc. For Rory to play lovely golf and win the Canadian Open is easier I'd argue than winning a major for all of the above reasons, even if the course for the Canadian Open is harder than a major course.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that at all, I certainly wouldn't.

We all agree that the majors should be worth more, people just differ in how much more.

Personally, I think they should be strongly considered but I do understand the argument for why fans & players feel they appear to matter too much sometimes.

Dav010

In relation to Augusta, I’ve just finished Michael Bambugers book on the second half of Tigers career. There is of course a lot in it about Augusta. The writer acknowledges that visually, and for 51 weeks of the year, it does not look a difficult course. But the players and golf journos know how difficult it is on Masters weekend. There is an in depth account of how it affects the players, how being slightly out of position off the tee can turn a birdie chance to a lucky bogey, how water features large in their brains in the last 5 holes. So saying it is not difficult is being a bit disingenuous. The course has broken many players, few more so than Mcilroy.

In my opinion, winning majors is about winning majors and money , winning other comps is about winning money.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

I can’t see a post where anyone said Augusta wasn’t a difficult course?

Bubbaclaus

Looks like he is heading towards his first missed cut in 31 events (since Portrush 2019).

Dr. Bre

Yep Rory having a poor tournament

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Dreadful showing from him, that breaks the longest current run on tour at 25

Tour average is 4

Rikand

Ah sure anyone can have a bad week at the office

OEP

He has a lot to sort out before the masters, he has a good run of tournaments now though.