Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

gypsy79

First Up wrote: »

Its a game of fine margins at that level.

Rory's putting lapses get highlighted a lot around here. He doesn't take as much advantage of his length as he might and it looks like he could use some help.

Maybe Harry Diamond gives him bad advice or maybe he doesn't say anything. Either way, a caddy with a better understanding of the varied grass types on greens might be better able to help than one who isn't.

Give up please before you embarrass yourself any further

Never heard such nonsense about grass types and the caddy.

Rory always reads/lines up his own putts therefore the responsibility is squarely on his shoulders. This is nothing to do with his choice of caddy. It was the same when JP was his caddy.

First Up

Exactly wrote: »

Never heard such nonsense about grass types and the caddy.

Rory always reads/lines up his own putts therefore the responsibility is squarely on his shoulders. This is nothing to do with his choice of caddy. It was the same when JP was his caddy.

And the putting statistics suggest he could use some help, which many players get from their caddies. What is so nonsensical about that?

Salvadoor

Exactly wrote: »

Never heard such nonsense about grass types and the caddy.

Rory always reads/lines up his own putts therefore the responsibility is squarely on his shoulders. This is nothing to do with his choice of caddy. It was the same when JP was his caddy.

The Big Easy

Exactly wrote: »

Never heard such nonsense about grass types and the caddy.

Rory always reads/lines up his own putts therefore the responsibility is squarely on his shoulders. This is nothing to do with his choice of caddy. It was the same when JP was his caddy.

It's not as preposterous as some think, it used to be far more common to employ local caddies (obviously for various reasons such as cost, travel and whatnot). But one of those reasons was local knowledge which includes the local grass variety and grain effect.

First Up

First Up wrote: »

And the putting statistics suggest he could use some help, which many players get from their caddies. What is so nonsensical about that?

Nothing at all and I agree it looks from the outside that he would benefit from a second pair of eyes. My point was that he currently doesn't.

Salvadoor

Salvadoor wrote: »

Few and far between examples I would imagine 😉

Russman

He must be almost ten years living and playing in the states and he’s been a pro since 2007. He’s hardly a rookie who needs a grizzled old vet to get him round.

First Up

Russman wrote:

He must be almost ten years living and playing in the states and he’s been a pro since 2007. He’s hardly a rookie who needs a grizzled old vet to get him round.

It all helps.

Dav010

Russman wrote: »

He must be almost ten years living and playing in the states and he’s been a pro since 2007. He’s hardly a rookie who needs a grizzled old vet to get him round.

Depends on the golfer, fluff Cowen was 30 years older than Tiger when he held the bag, Steve Williams is 14 yrs, Joe LaCava 22, so experience can help, maybe more so with a caddying for someone with a strong personality. Again, I think this is unique to each golfer, some seem to rely on the caddy for advice more than others.

I suppose in those moments when an impartial word, or strong word of advice is needed, having someone who has seen and done it all before might help. It would be interesting to see how someone like Williams would do with Mcilroy, would he listen to him, or would they repel each other.

Edit. Just looked up JP, apart from a brief reference to Matt Wolff in 2019, he doesn’t seem to have worked since Mcilroy let him go. Surprising with his experience.

ForeRight

Dav010 wrote: »

Depends on the golfer, fluff Cowen was 30 years older than Tiger when he held the bag, Steve Williams is 14 yrs, Joe LaCava 22, so experience can help, maybe more so with a caddying for someone with a strong personality. Again, I think this is unique to each golfer, some seem to rely on the caddy for advice more than others.

I suppose in those moments when an impartial word, or strong word of advice is needed, having someone who has seen and done it all before might help. It would be interesting to see how someone like Williams would do with Mcilroy, would he listen to him, or would they repel each other.

Edit. Just looked up JP, apart from a brief reference to Matt Wolff in 2019, he doesn’t seem to have worked since Mcilroy let him go. Surprising with his experience.

He’s on that french lads bag the last year or so

Dav010

ForeRight wrote: »

He’s on that french lads bag the last year or so

You’re right, Victor Perez.

rooney30

Dav010 wrote: »

Depends on the golfer, fluff Cowen was 30 years older than Tiger when he held the bag, Steve Williams is 14 yrs, Joe LaCava 22, so experience can help, maybe more so with a caddying for someone with a strong personality. Again, I think this is unique to each golfer, some seem to rely on the caddy for advice more than others.

I suppose in those moments when an impartial word, or strong word of advice is needed, having someone who has seen and done it all before might help. It would be interesting to see how someone like Williams would do with Mcilroy, would he listen to him, or would they repel each other.

Edit. Just looked up JP, apart from a brief reference to Matt Wolff in 2019, he doesn’t seem to have worked since Mcilroy let him go. Surprising with his experience.

For a man who’s on the record for saying that the only person he really listens to is his mother , I’m not sure that a strong personality like Steve Williams would be a good fit for him. They’d end up butting heads .

Dav010

rooney30 wrote: »

For a man who’s on the record for saying that the only person he really listens to is his mother , I’m not sure that a strong personality like Steve Williams would be a good fit for him. They’d end up butting heads .

There are few stronger personalities than Woods, but he seems to value experience. I don’t know that having a different caddy would make much difference, but I do think that something needs to change if these extreme fluctuations continue. Maybe, just maybe, an older, a more experienced caddy might be able to guide him a bit more. I’m trying to find an article I read a while back where a few of the top caddies were interviewed and they have insights into what they tell their players and who they keep them calm or pick them up when the head starts to go. One said he tells the player the wrong yardages if he is running hot to account for the adrenaline or that the wind is across if he is pulling/pushing the ball so that he adjusts his aim. If I find it I’ll link it.

Russman

Dav010 wrote: »

There are few stronger personalities than Woods, but he seems to value experience. I don’t know that having a different caddy would make much difference, but I do think that something needs to change if these extreme fluctuations continue. Maybe, just maybe, an older, a more experienced caddy might be able to guide him a bit more. I’m trying to find an article I read a while back where a few of the top caddies were interviewed and they have insights into what they tell their players and who they keep them calm or pick them up when the head starts to go. One said he tells the player the wrong yardages if he is running hot to account for the adrenaline or that the wind is across if he is pulling/pushing the ball so that he adjusts his aim. If I find it I’ll link it.

I remember reading that article, it was very interesting !

OEP

Dav010 wrote: »

There are few stronger personalities than Woods, but he seems to value experience. I don’t know that having a different caddy would make much difference, but I do think that something needs to change if these extreme fluctuations continue. Maybe, just maybe, an older, a more experienced caddy might be able to guide him a bit more. I’m trying to find an article I read a while back where a few of the top caddies were interviewed and they have insights into what they tell their players and who they keep them calm or pick them up when the head starts to go. One said he tells the player the wrong yardages if he is running hot to account for the adrenaline or that the wind is across if he is pulling/pushing the ball so that he adjusts his aim. If I find it I’ll link it.

Colin Byrne was on the Golf Weekly podcast maybe two weeks ago and discussed this. He said he'd ask the player how pumped he is and then add a few yards onto each club as necessary. He also talked about how every player he has been with has been different and wanted different things.

monkeybutter

Deleted User wrote: »

His father could take the bag for a while , if rory starts to play bad he could get an earful of... 'pull yourself together ye little sh*t, you're bringing shame on the family playing like that'..

Maybe you could line up his puts for him

Russman

Interesting watching the Golf Vodcast on Sky last night and Tony Johnstone alluded to Rory's green reading being an issue. Said he's not convinced Rory is good at reading greens and something to the effect that he's never seen so many apparent mis-reads from 20 feet as he does with Rory.
Also mentioned his wedge play, talking about the fact that Rory's stock yardage with his shortest wedge is 115 (I think). He felt he's poor from about 50-90 yards and reckoned Rory should find a wedge that only goes 85-90 yards flat out. (with Rory's power I'm not sure what loft that would come out at !! )

monkeybutter

Russman wrote: »

Interesting watching the Golf Vodcast on Sky last night and Tony Johnstone alluded to Rory's green reading being an issue. Said he's not convinced Rory is good at reading greens and something to the effect that he's never seen so many apparent mis-reads from 20 feet as he does with Rory.
Also mentioned his wedge play, talking about the fact that Rory's stock yardage with his shortest wedge is 115 (I think). He felt he's poor from about 50-90 yards and reckoned Rory should find a wedge that only goes 85-90 yards flat out. (with Rory's power I'm not sure what loft that would come out at !! )

what is seeing as a misread


is he just expecting him to make a 20 foot put 50% of the time or what



surely everyone who swings it fast is going to hit the same problem


he has a fecking 60 degree wedge, to get that to 85 yards on a full swing? no pro is hitting it that short

Russman

Russman wrote: »

Interesting watching the Golf Vodcast on Sky last night and Tony Johnstone alluded to Rory's green reading being an issue. Said he's not convinced Rory is good at reading greens and something to the effect that he's never seen so many apparent mis-reads from 20 feet as he does with Rory.
Also mentioned his wedge play, talking about the fact that Rory's stock yardage with his shortest wedge is 115 (I think). He felt he's poor from about 50-90 yards and reckoned Rory should find a wedge that only goes 85-90 yards flat out. (with Rory's power I'm not sure what loft that would come out at !! )

Sometimes he misses the hole completely on shortish putts. Couldn't hurt having someone else read the putts more, seems like the only thing he hasn't tried yet.

He has as much problem with left/right as short /long with his short irons. His 'normal swing' doesn't seem to be suited to shorts irons. I think his chipping and pitching looks great, not sure can you extend that technique further back the fairway. DJ figured the short irons out, strange McIlroy cant.

I think overall its the worst combo for Augusta. Poor putting, no distance control plus a tendency to make the wrong decision.

ForeRight

Rory is going to win this week

Russman

monkeybutter wrote: »

what is seeing as a misread


is he just expecting him to make a 20 foot put 50% of the time or what



surely everyone who swings it fast is going to hit the same problem


he has a fecking 60 degree wedge, to get that to 85 yards on a full swing? no pro is hitting it that short

I don’t know, you’d have to ask Tony. I assume he means a putt hit, followed by some gesture or indication that it didn’t move as expected.

Dav010

monkeybutter wrote: »

what is seeing as a misread


is he just expecting him to make a 20 foot put 50% of the time or what



surely everyone who swings it fast is going to hit the same problem


he has a fecking 60 degree wedge, to get that to 85 yards on a full swing? no pro is hitting it that short

Maybe carry a wedge with a higher loft?

You don’t expect pros to sink every 20 ft putt, but you do expect them to put them close, and the occasional one to drop.

Bubbaclaus

McIlroy was 8th on the PGA Tour last year in percentage of putts made from 15-25 feet.

Sometimes I wonder are we all talking about the same player.

Dav010

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

McIlroy was 8th on the PGA Tour last year in percentage of putts made from 15-25 feet.

Sometimes I wonder are we all talking about the same player.

Putts made, but where do the ones he missed end up, inches or feet away? I didn’t see the vodcast Russman is referring to, but misreads I assume means that when he misses, he misses big.

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

Maybe you could line up his puts for him

I couldn't help with the speed though.

Russman

Dav010 wrote: »

Putts made, but where do the ones he missed end up, inches or feet away? I didn’t see the vodcast Russman is referring to, but misreads I assume means that when he misses, he misses big.

As it happens, it’s just been on again on Sky. They were discussing if Rory has an issue on Sundays. Tony Johnstone basically said “I’m not convinced Rory is a good reader of greens” and then went on to say how he sees Rory misread so many putts in the 20ft range. He didn’t go into exactly what he sees ie body movement, gestures, how the putt rolled etc. The wedge play seemed to be bigger issue for them though - it was obviously fairly light and chatty rather than a serious critique of Rory. He especially mentioned spin control with the short shots and how often we see him pitch it pin high and zip back 20ft.

OEP

I think the 20ft putt comment is nonsense, I don't think he's particularly bad from that distance and pros don't expect to make many from there anyway. The issue is wedges first, so his first putt is from too far away and then he seems to always miss a few inside 6 feet. I didn't look up the stats for that so I'm open to correction

Russman

OEP wrote: »

I think the 20ft putt comment is nonsense, I don't think he's particularly bad from that distance and pros don't expect to make many from there anyway. The issue is wedges first, so his first putt is from too far away and then he seems to always miss a few inside 6 feet. I didn't look up the stats for that so I'm open to correction

Without looking into the stats, I agree with this. Too many (and it might only be two or three in a tournament) bogies from the middle of the fairway, 120yds out.

That said, I think he's playing well enough to pick up a couple of wins in the next few weeks. Here's hoping its Sawgrass & Augusta.

gypsy79

111 yards out on 18 in the middle of the fairway

Leaves himself 43ft from the pin......I would be disappointed and I am an 18 handicapper

Yet his wedges are the problem