Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

Mantis Toboggan

Less of the weights and more wedge practice imo. It's great that he can lift 130 kg's but if he cannot hit a green from 100 yards then he has a problem.

Unless he improves his pitching and putting he's going to be playing second fidle to Spieth and Day for the foreseeable future.

Keano

Year-position-score
2015 4 -12
2014 T8 E
2013 T25 +2
2012 T40 +5
2011 T15 -4
2010 T69 +7
2009 T20 -2

Not great reading his Masters record.

valoren

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Less of the weights and more wedge practice imo. It's great that he can lift 130 kg's but if he cannot hit a green from 100 yards then he has a problem.

Unless he improves his pitching and putting he's going to be playing second fidle to Spieth and Day for the foreseeable future.

He should just apply to this competition, get it out of his system, then start playing "Golf" again. :pac:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RE/MAX_World_Long_Drive_Championship

Domo1982

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Less of the weights and more wedge practice imo. It's great that he can lift 130 kg's but if he cannot hit a green from 100 yards then he has a problem.

Unless he improves his pitching and putting he's going to be playing second fidle to Spieth and Day for the foreseeable future.

Agreed

Why is he bulking up so much do we know? He was always a big hitter no?

I thought he looked a little too bulked up now I have to say. He almost looked uncomfortable and a little self conscious in the tight gear as well

He'll come again hopefully

VikingG

Whats interesting is that "if" Rory had been bogey free on just Sunday (like Willet).. and just par'd those holes he would have tied for the lead..

ixus

The commentary on his fitness plan display a lack of knowledge/ignorance. As he has explained, correctly, the plan is designed to prevent injury and maintain durability throughout season.

The actual weight of a 120/130kg squat is quite low. Any man from 70kg up could be lifting that with 6 months training once technique was sorted.

His short game is affecting his short game. Not the fitness plan.

Personally, I think a lot of it is psychological. Talking about the course owing you something, getting majorly hung up on the past. Knocking the birdies in when the pressure is off. Talking too much.

ForeRight

We are back to his "bulking up" again I see!

Anyone who thinks he is bulking and it effects his game has no idea what they are talking about.

HighLine

ForeRight wrote: »

We are back to his "bulking up" again I see!

Anyone who thinks he is bulking and it effects his game has no idea what they are talking about.

Exactly. Him bulking up has nothing to do with his wedge game being dire and putting poorly.

As a previous poster highlighted, Rory is an on/off golfer who goes through phases. I've no doubt he will come good sooner rather than later.

Panrich

Course management here is a problem for McIlroy. I have always felt it instinctively that he plays some holes at Augusta poorly and I've done a bit of digging to see the stats.

Rory has played 30 competitive rounds at Augusta

Hole 1:
0 birdies
23 pars
5 bogey
2 double (+9 career record)

Hole 10
1 birdie
18 pars
9 bogey
1 double
1 triple (+13 career record)

Hole 11
4 birdies
14 pars
8 bogey
2 double
1 triple (+11 career record)

Now I know that holes 10 and 11 are very difficult and most players would be in negative territory on them but Willet played 10 and 11 in par this week where Rory played these two holes in +7. When you consider he lost by 6, and had a poor history on those holes, he should be looking for anything that might help. By going in the water twice at 11, he shows that he is not playing smart at holes that have hurt him in the past.
I can't believe that he has played hole 1 30 times without ever getting a birdie either.

Domo1982

ForeRight wrote: »

We are back to his "bulking up" again I see!

Anyone who thinks he is bulking and it effects his game has no idea what they are talking about.

Yeah but do we know why he feels the need to bulk up to the level he has?

Whats the advantage.Is it purely to avoid injury as stated on here before?

FixdePitchmark

Rory has only changed his putting very recently.

Besides al the other issues - this is an issue - but that is easily solved.

Keano

If the European Tour wesbite is correct - 5ft 9¾in 11st 7lbs
That's not big

CMOTDibbler

Panrich wrote: »

Now I know that holes 10 and 11 are very difficult and most players would be in negative territory on them but Willet played 10 and 11 in par this week where Rory played these two holes in +7. When you consider he lost by 6, and had a poor history on those holes, he should be looking for anything that might help. By going in the water twice at 11, he shows that he is not playing smart at holes that have hurt him in the past.
I can't believe that he has played hole 1 30 times without ever getting a birdie either.

Very interesting stats. The only thing I'd asay is that you'd have to take the full round in its entirety to get the true picture. Some holes suit some people and not others. Everybody has holes that they always play average to badly on. Looking at the tenth, he's averaged better than 4.5 on it, despite it being the hole that destroyed his chance of a win in 2011. There are a lot of holes in Augusta that the field has played over par on. Danny Willettt may have had an advantage in that he doesn't have any baggage really, having only played there once before. Jordan Spieth may never be able to look at the twelfth again without having two nightmare flashbacks. :eek:

If I was to point the finger at what went wrong for Rory, I'd say it was that he went very aggressively after Spieth on Saturday (possibly knowing that if he shot a good score, he'd presuure Spieth into mistakes), but it didn't work out. I don't really count Sunday as a factor because at that stage he had no choice but to go after scores and Augusta doesn't play nice when you do that. Not unless you have your full A++ game in the bag.

ixus

Keano wrote: »

If the European Tour wesbite is correct - 5ft 9¾in 11st 7lbs
That's not big

Exactly and any fitness coach worth his salt knows that you do not mess with elite athletes physique in a significant way.

His fitness coach does not want to damage one of the top earners in all of sport. They do not want to risk injury to the athlete. These coaches are looking to improve overall function by a few %.

To paraphrase a coaches interview I read; "you don't teach a £40mln soccer player to do olypmic lifts, risk injury and be out for a few weeks or worse. "

FixdePitchmark

ixus wrote: »

Exactly and any fitness coach worth his salt knows that you do not mess with elite athletes physique in a significant way.

His fitness coach does not want to damage one of the top earners in all of sport. They do not want to risk injury to the athlete. These coaches are looking to improve overall function by a few %.

To paraphrase a coaches interview I read; "you don't teach a £40mln soccer player to do olypmic lifts, risk injury and be out for a few weeks or worse. "

His body has changed in a precision sport.

Panrich

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Very interesting stats. The only thing I'd asay is that you'd have to take the full round in its entirety to get the true picture. Some holes suit some people and not others. Everybody has holes that they always play average to badly on. Looking at the tenth, he's averaged better than 4.5 on it, despite it being the hole that destroyed his chance of a win in 2011. There are a lot of holes in Augusta that the field has played over par on. Danny Willettt may have had an advantage in that he doesn't have any baggage really, having only played there once before. Jordan Spieth may never be able to look at the twelfth again without having two nightmare flashbacks. :eek:

If I was to point the finger at what went wrong for Rory, I'd say it was that he went very aggressively after Spieth on Saturday (possibly knowing that if he shot a good score, he'd presuure Spieth into mistakes), but it didn't work out. I don't really count Sunday as a factor because at that stage he had no choice but to go after scores and Augusta doesn't play nice when you do that. Not unless you have your full A++ game in the bag.

You might be on to something regarding baggage. I had another quick look.

Pre Meltdown (up to and including Rd3 2011 - 9 rounds)

Hole 1

9 pars (Level)

Hole 10

6 pars
3 bogey (+3)

Hole 11

2 birdie
7 par (-2)

Very decent stats compared to what has come since. Hole 11 especially is a very stark contrast. He never had a bogey there prior to his meltdown and he has struggled ever since. He always seems to have had a problem with 10 but his stats on the other two are night and day pre and post 2011 issues.

They always say that experience counts for so much around Augusta but Rory was doing far better in his early days at these particular holes.

ForeRight

Keano wrote: »

If the European Tour wesbite is correct - 5ft 9¾in 11st 7lbs
That's not big

Exactly... He's not bulked in anyway at all.


He's as lean as a pro athlete now. There is no negatives involved in terms of his body.

The only issue is if he's missing practice due to working out and there is absolutely no way that's the case.

Rory's game is completely dictated by what's happening between his ears and I think it's time we accepted that this is was and always will be the way with him.


Little chubby cheek Rory or lean as a greyhound Rory is still taking on a hook shot from the tress with water on the left half way through a tournament when he doesn't need too.

CMOTDibbler

Panrich wrote: »

Very decent stats compared to what has come since. Hole 11 especially is a very stark contrast. He never had a bogey there prior to his meltdown and he has struggled ever since. He always seems to have had a problem with 10 but his stats on the other two are night and day pre and post 2011 issues.

They always say that experience counts for so much around Augusta but Rory was doing far better in his early days at these particular holes.

I just converted those into numbers for you and of course we need a table

Hole|Pre 2011|Post 2011
1st|4|4.3
10th|4.33|4.43
11th|3.78|4.37


So surprisingly, the meltdown on the 10th doesn't seem to have affected him much, I suspect that it's because the hole suits his shot shape. The 1st hole is one of the few fader's holes on the course as is the 11th. Maybe that's the issue for him?

The 18th is also a fader's hole. Do you know what his stats are for that one? Interestingly, Martin Kaymer has always struggled at Augusta, being a natural fader and went through a horrendous swing change to try and attack the course but failed.

Panrich

He's done better on 18.

Total

7 birdies
19 par
3 bogey
1 triple (-1 career record)

The triple was in rd2 2009 and all birdies have come post 2011

Pre 2011 rd 4

8 par
1 triple (+3)

rd4 2011-2016

7 birdie
11 par
3 bogey (-4)

First Up

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Time for a new caddy me thinks.

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

Rory has the game to win any event but he may not have the temperament to win at Augusta. All the Majors are a mental as well as golfing test and Augusta asks more questions than any, especially in windy, firm conditions and it generates more disasters than any other tournament.

It is hardly in dispute that Rory gets down on himself - he has been open about it. The only person who can help in that situation is his caddy. I don't know if JP can't, won't or isn't allowed to but whether it is JP or someone else, Rory needs a caddy who can play more of a role in those situations.

Keano

McIlroy: The occasion got to me again

RORY McILROY SAYS he must improve mentally to win an elusive Masters title and complete a career Grand Slam.
World number three McIlroy played himself into contention with a battling second-round 71 as others around him struggled in difficult conditions, and that was enough to leave him in the final pairing on Saturday.
However, he carded a disappointing 77 on round three and eventually finished in a tie for 10th, six shots off winner Danny Willett.
McIlroy’s best finish at a Masters came last year when he placed fourth, while his best opportunity was in 2011 when he led going into Sunday before his infamous last-round meltdown.
The 26-year-old feels he has the game to win at Augusta, but admits he is struggling to contend with the mental pressure of winning a green jacket.

More here

CMOTDibbler

First Up wrote: »

It is hardly in dispute that Rory gets down on himself - he has been open about it. The only person who can help in that situation is his caddy. I don't know if JP can't, won't or isn't allowed to but whether it is JP or someone else, Rory needs a caddy who can play more of a role in those situations.

I'm not sure a caddy can really do anything about your head when it's dropped. Anything he says has surely been said before and he can't take your shots for you. You have to find it in yourself to hit the reset button every time something goes wrong and forget what's gone before.

Micahel Grillo couldn't stop Spieth dunking his ball a second time, Billy Foster couldn't take Westwood's putts for him when the pressure came on.

First Up

CMOTDibbler wrote:

I'm not sure a caddy can really do anything about your head when it's dropped. Anything he says has surely been said before and he can't take your shots for you. You have to find it in yourself to hit the reset button every time something goes wrong and forget what's gone before.

Golf history is littered with examples of caddies making vital interventions to steady the ship. Not every top player needs it but enough have acknowledged their caddies' role in their success to show it can make the difference.

CMOTDibbler wrote:

Micahel Grillo couldn't stop Spieth dunking his ball a second time, Billy Foster couldn't take Westwood's putts for him when the pressure came on.

Agreed but I'm pretty sure Grillo had a part in Speith recovering to make two birdies in his next three holes.

Of course there is no guarantee that any caddy would make a difference to Rory but given that mental frailty seems to be his biggest problem and that his caddy is the only potential source of on-course help, it has to be something to think about.

ForeRight

I'm not in the camp of throwing the caddy shout out every time Rory under performs BUT I'm very much in the camp of trying new things when it's not going great. Example being Rory changing his putting so I'd have to wonder what harm could it do trying a new caddy?

I can't see the negative in changing as Rory seems to be struggling the last while but there's a chance it could improve him so why not try it.

I don't blame JP for any of Rory's failings though but sometimes a change can be good for everyone involved

CMOTDibbler

ForeRight wrote: »

I'm not in the camp of throwing the caddy shout out every time Rory under performs BUT I'm very much in the camp of trying new things when it's not going great. Example being Rory changing his putting so I'd have to wonder what harm could it do trying a new caddy?

I can't see the negative in changing as Rory seems to be struggling the last while but there's a chance it could improve him so why not try it.

I don't blame JP for any of Rory's failings though but sometimes a change can be good for everyone involved

I would thinnk that would be a dramatic change. Everything about your preparation and the way you play would be different. The caddy would be on a learning curve and comparisons would be made in the player's head. It would have to come only if the player absolutely felt it was needed and was fuly invested in it. Or if the caddy quit obvs.

ForeRight

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I would thinnk that would be a dramatic change. Everything about your preparation and the way you play would be different. The caddy would be on a learning curve and comparisons would be made in the player's head. It would have to come only if the player absolutely felt it was needed and was fuly invested in it. Or if the caddy quit obvs.

Players change caddys at the highest level and it doesn't cause problems once you are getting an experienced guy in.

Tiger did it. Scott did it and recently had a stand in caddy I think and did brilliant.

I don't think it would need any huge adjustment at all to be honest.

CMOTDibbler

ForeRight wrote: »

Players change caddys at the highest level and it doesn't cause problems once you are getting an experienced guy in.

Tiger did it. Scott did it and recently had a stand in caddy I think and did brilliant.

I don't think it would need any huge adjustment at all to be honest.

Scott has changed caddy because Steve Williams retired (he also left Woods), so both of those were exactly the kind of scenarios that make it easier. He still gets Williams to caddy the majors, but it didn't go particularly well this time around.

Oblomov

Part of the problem, from the outside and seeing other good and great golfers seem to fall away from the possible pinnacle.

The comments about the eventual winner, Danny Willett, re his whole life will change and his agent will be organising his diary.

Therein lies the problem, the "honours" circuit, the celeb path, the commitment to sponsors all take a toll on the fine line between being good and being great. The pressures change, the practice days become influenced by celeb events.

Then, the hunger, the need to prove oneself, the motivation becomes secondary to the pressures of the sponsors.

Rory McIlroy has proved beyond doubt to have the talent, world recognised for the ability of the complete game but..... secondary pressures are destroying the equilibrium and his game.

The terrible part, it has happened to other golfers.

PARlance

First Up wrote: »

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

Rory has the game to win any event but he may not have the temperament to win at Augusta. All the Majors are a mental as well as golfing test and Augusta asks more questions than any, especially in windy, firm conditions and it generates more disasters than any other tournament.

It is hardly in dispute that Rory gets down on himself - he has been open about it. The only person who can help in that situation is his caddy. I don't know if JP can't, won't or isn't allowed to but whether it is JP or someone else, Rory needs a caddy who can play more of a role in those situations.

Re JP, I think it's a slight variation of the "can't, won't and isn't allowed to" combination. It doesn't seem to be in JP's nature, he probably could switch into a dominant role if needed but I don't think Rory wants him to do that.

Rory has been calling the shots, on and off the course, for some time now. If he wanted a different caddy, he would have a different caddy. He has had no problem making big calls in his life so far.

Augusta, more than any other course, tells the golfer what to do. It calls the shots on a lot of holes. I don't think that suits Rory's mentality. While Rory has admitted that his mentality has let him down in terms of pressure, expectation etc, I don't think he has realised that he needs to pay the course much more respect and really look at his course management. That's his main mental weakness imo. His aggressive nature works well elsewhere but you just can't do that or slip into that mode at Augusta.

Course management and putting goes a long way at Augusta. I don't think he needs a change of Caddy per se. An improvement is needed on the putting front but course management and accepting the blows that Augusta will deal him is key. If Rory shorts that out himself, I don't think it matters who is the caddy.

First Up

PARlance wrote:

Course management and An improvement is needed on the putting front but course management and accepting the blows that Augusta will deal him is key. If Rory shorts that out himself, I don't think it matters who is the caddy.

The point being that he seems unable to sort it out for himself.