Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

CMOTDibbler

Minderbinder wrote: »

Well I suppose it depends on the personality of Harry Diamond and their friendship. I'd worry though that this is just choosing the most comfortable option. He is clearly not inclined to take criticism well, which is probably why he hasn't sought out a more demanding caddy before now.

By all accounts, it's not criticism he doesn't like, but bad advice. He particularly drew attention to the criticism he got from JP as a positive thing.

Minderbinder wrote: »

If this is temporary, then we'll see. I'd love to see Steve Williams on his bag although currently he's elsewhere employed.

Steve Williams is retired. He makes an exception for the majors and caddies for Adam Scott in those. So he's not really an option.

ForeRight

Wouldn't be surprising at all to see Rory go out and win this week and then the PGA.

If and a big if he has been thinking about letting jp go for a while now in his head surely that was a recipe for disaster on the course.
Now with the change maybe he will be more relaxed.

Maybe he will miss both cuts it's hard to call what way this will go for him.

At the end of the day he has always been his own man and made choices which he feels are best for him. Fair play to him having the conviction to do it if he thinks it's best so who is anyone to question him

Minderbinder

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

By all accounts, it's not criticism he doesn't like, but bad advice. He particularly drew attention to the criticism he got from JP as a positive thing.


Steve Williams is retired. He makes an exception for the majors and caddies for Adam Scott in those. So he's not really an option.

To be honest, I felt before he praised JP at the Open that that was going to be their last tournament together. I felt something had to give. He had to try everything and that's why I think it's a good decision to part ways. In hindsight maybe the parting of ways was a decision he had come to before the Open. Maybe Rory was trying to say something nice because he felt some guilt about having to sack the man, and he also knew people would be talking about JP's lack of direction as the reason. Maybe that was Rory's final 'thank you' to JP.

I still don't think he takes criticism well, if he can't pander to a few media vultures and ex-pros. I think his so-called management company is an absolute farce and he's just hired a bunch of yes-men.

Actually I think Rory is a nice, fairy normal person. A bit immature but having to become a sporting superstar at such a young age is not that easy. He didn't have time to develop as a person, polish off the edges like Harrington would have done during University, or experience the more humbling side of golf like Lowry would have done before breaking through. Rory didn't have time to assemble his thoughts before being shoved in front of a camera.

Fair enough about Steve Williams, but it wouldn't hurt to ask him.

callaway92

TheRiverman wrote: »

That failed "popstar" from Mullingar might need a job.

Off topic, but... Jaysis...How can you consider a multi multi millionaire a failed popstar?

CMOTDibbler

Minderbinder wrote: »

To be honest, I felt before he praised JP at the Open that that was going to be their last tournament together. I felt something had to give. He had to try everything and that's why I think it's a good decision to part ways. In hindsight maybe the parting of ways was a decision he had come to before the Open. Maybe Rory was trying to say something nice because he felt some guilt about having to sack the man, and he also knew people would be talking about JP's lack of direction as the reason. Maybe that was Rory's final 'thank you' to JP.

I still don't think he takes criticism well, if he can't pander to a few media vultures and ex-pros. I think his so-called management company is an absolute farce and he's just hired a bunch of yes-men.

Actually I think Rory is a nice, fairy normal person. A bit immature but having to become a sporting superstar at such a young age is not that easy. He didn't have time to develop as a person, polish off the edges like Harrington would have done during University, or experience the more humbling side of golf like Lowry would have done before breaking through. Rory didn't have time to assemble his thoughts before being shoved in front of a camera.

Fair enough about Steve Williams, but it wouldn't hurt to ask him.

He can be a bit emotional alright. If he's down and somebody takes a dig at him, he reacts. I kinda like that in him. It's not all corporate speak and calm waters. But that shows through in his golf too. I don't think you can seperate them tbh. He makes 'gut' decisions and runs with them both on and off the course. He's been very successful, so I'd hate to see him lose that.

neddynasty

I've seen a fair few posts here saying McIlroy is immature. Can anyone elaborate as to why they think so?

mikeybrennan

neddynasty wrote: »

I've seen a fair few posts here saying McIlroy is immature. Can anyone elaborate as to why they think so?

Timing of this for a start

wardides

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Timing of this for a start

Phil got rid of Bones several weeks ago, and played one tournament with his brother before missing the cut in the Open. What's the difference? Rory will get one tournament in before the PGA with his new caddy as well.

Jayop

wardides wrote: »

Phil got rid of Bones several weeks ago, and played one tournament with his brother before missing the cut in the Open. What's the difference? Rory will get one tournament in before the PGA with his new caddy as well.

The difference is certain people are dying for Rory to fail and look for anything they can use to call him names that suits a predetermined agenda. Why that is is a deeper question.

Halfprice

Some laugh if Rory comes out and says JP wanted a change and i tried to convince him to stay on but he felt it was best. Im sure JP has heard or read all comments about him not been strong enough for Rory, and on the back of all that he has said to Rory that i think you need a change to get you back to where you belong. Ya never know

benny79

I heard of a few lads in the club that he sacked him last Tuesday. So just after the Open and after singing his praises to the media. Pretty ****ty thing to do imo.. I actually think it was a mistake he won 4 majors with JP on the bag he cant be that bad! yes he had a meltdown in the Masters in 2011 but who hasn't first time been in that position in a Major at such a young age! Sure Spieth done it last year after winning it already and nearly done it again in the Open! Lowry has done it and countless others. The main thing was he bounced back and won 4.. It's so easy to blame the caddy! I bottled it in the final of my Captains day but it was my first time been in that position but I learn from it. Just a petty I hadn't a caddy to blame

Im not a Rory fan having seen him at Pro am's etc but love watching him but I think people like him need people he can trust around him. He could be forever searching for a caddy now that works well for him, that and new clubs, getting married to many changes altogether imo in the prime of his career..

Dr Devious

"I heard of a few lads in the club that he sacked him last Tuesday. So just after the Open and after singing his praises to the media."
Those lads in the club sure do keep you well informed.:)

CMOTDibbler

benny79 wrote: »

Im not a Rory fan having seen him at Pro am's etc but love watching him but I think people like him need people he can trust around him. He could be forever searching for a caddy now that works well for him, that and new clubs, getting married to many changes altogether imo in the prime of his career..

Well if you're going to make substantial changes, the same year other changes are forced on you would be a good choice.

I'm not saying his marriage was forced on him, but you know what I mean.

mikeybrennan

I fancy him to make a big improvement in the short-term at least.

Jayop

benny79 wrote: »

I heard of a few lads in the club that he sacked him last Tuesday. So just after the Open and after singing his praises to the media. Pretty ****ty thing to do imo.. I actually think it was a mistake he won 4 majors with JP on the bag he cant be that bad! yes he had a meltdown in the Masters in 2011 but who hasn't first time been in that position in a Major at such a young age! Sure Spieth done it last year after winning it already and nearly done it again in the Open! Lowry has done it and countless others. The main thing was he bounced back and won 4.. It's so easy to blame the caddy! I bottled it in the final of my Captains day but it was my first time been in that position but I learn from it. Just a petty I hadn't a caddy to blame

Im not a Rory fan having seen him at Pro am's etc but love watching him but I think people like him need people he can trust around him. He could be forever searching for a caddy now that works well for him, that and new clubs, getting married to many changes altogether imo in the prime of his career..

Sacks caddy for first time in ten years and he's now someone who uses his caddy as an excuse.

What a load of ****e. Do people even stop to think about how bitter what they write will sound to others?

Minderbinder

neddynasty wrote: »

I've seen a fair few posts here saying McIlroy is immature. Can anyone elaborate as to why they think so?

His unnecessary reactions to criticism by members of the press, giving them more attention than they were ever likely to get.

Telling lies initially about why he skipped the Olympics.

His inability (more often than not) to recover from a dropped shot or a bad few holes. Most of the top players are very good at bouncing back. (obviously the first round at the Open is an exception). I think that's a sign of immaturity.


But loads of stuff I would applaud him for, including skipping the Olympics and telling the truth in the end, throwing clubs in the water (good to see he cares), playing a round with Trump (for which he was roundly criticized for some bizarre reason but I defended), sacking his caddie in an attempt to rediscover his best game

CMOTDibbler

Minderbinder wrote: »

His unnecessary reactions to criticism by members of the press, giving them more attention than they were ever likely to get.

Telling lies initially about why he skipped the Olympics.

His inability (more often than not) to recover from a dropped shot or a bad few holes. Most of the top players are very good at bouncing back. (obviously the first round at the Open is an exception). I think that's a sign of immaturity.


But loads of stuff I would applaud him for, including skipping the Olympics and telling the truth in the end, throwing clubs in the water (good to see he cares), playing a round with Trump (for which he was roundly criticized for some bizarre reason but I defended), sacking his caddie in an attempt to rediscover his best game

The original Olympics lie, I believe was at the behest of the infamous Pat Hickey. A 'don't denigrate the games' kind of statement. There was clearly no love lost there because McIlroy tweeted and then deleted a comment about Karma when Hickey was arrested. I saw the tweet. Briefly.

I think he's lost trust in JP. That's the death knell for a player caddie relationship. He could still like the guy on a personal level, but if you're second guessing your caddy, you may as well not have one.

BigChap1759

neddynasty wrote: »

I've seen a fair few posts here saying McIlroy is immature. Can anyone elaborate as to why they think so?

Loads of comments he has made and then come out with the 180 degree opposite view, Ryder Cup etc - loads of examples throughout his career but the Elkington exchange tippifies it for me

benny79

Jayop wrote: »

Sacks caddy for first time in ten years and he's now someone who uses his caddy as an excuse.

What a load of ****e. Do people even stop to think about how bitter what they write will sound to others?

Why else do you get sacked? because you did wrong in some way or other.. They didn't part ways he was sacked after 9/10 years of service and finishing 4th in The Open after a very poor start which he gave his caddy credit for and is some achievement in itself.

ligerdub

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Loads of comments he has made and then come out with the 180 degree opposite view, Ryder Cup etc - loads of examples throughout his career but the Elkington exchange tippifies it for me

Elkington deserved everything he got and more. He went personal on McIlroy on something he couldn't have known anything about for certain. Fair enough on the likes of us making these comments, but Elkington is in the business, reaches a big audience, and should have known better.

Jayop

benny79 wrote: »

Why else do you get sacked? because you did wrong in some way or other.. They didn't part ways he was sacked after 9/10 years of service and finishing 4th in The Open after a very poor start which he gave his caddy credit for and is some achievement in itself.

If Rory feels a new caddy will improve his chances then he absolutely has to do that. That doesn't mean he's blaming Jp. It just means he thinks someone else can do better.

Seve OB

https://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2017/8/1/mcginley-surprised-at-timing-of-mcilroy-caddie-split?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IrishGolfDesk+%28Irish+Golf+Desk%29

Minderbinder

benny79 wrote: »

Why else do you get sacked? because you did wrong in some way or other.. They didn't part ways he was sacked after 9/10 years of service and finishing 4th in The Open after a very poor start which he gave his caddy credit for and is some achievement in itself.

I really don't get the outrage when caddies are sacked. The guy was fortunate to be the caddy of probably the highest earning golfer in the last ten years. I'm fairly certain McIlroy would have been as successful with or without J.P Fitzgerald.

tobsey

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Loads of comments he has made and then come out with the 180 degree opposite view, Ryder Cup etc - loads of examples throughout his career but the Elkington exchange tippifies it for me

Calling him immature over his Ryder Cup comments? He was 20 at the time! He has matured a lot since.

benny79

Jayop wrote: »

If Rory feels a new caddy will improve his chances then he absolutely has to do that. That doesn't mean he's blaming Jp. It just means he thinks someone else can do better.

I think you might of picked up my last comment wrong I was referring to the media always blaming his caddy not Rory himself obviously he can change if he wants. I just think sacked is harsh & timing after 9/10 years together while couldn't they have sat down and say look I want to try different avenues etc

Its just the manner in which it happened doesn't sit well with me.. Yes he's made a lot of money etc etc but he also showed loyalty for a long time and never put himself in the spotlight just worked away in the background same as Harro's caddy..

but agree with above

tobsey

benny79 wrote: »

I think you might of picked up my last comment wrong I was referring to the media always blaming his caddy not Rory himself obviously he can change if he wants. I just think sacked is harsh & timing after 9/10 years together while couldn't they have sat down and say look I want to try different avenues etc

Its just the manner in which it happened doesn't sit well with me.. Yes he's made a lot of money etc etc but he also showed loyalty for a long time and never put himself in the spotlight just worked away in the background same as Harro's caddy..

but agree with above

You don't know what happened or what was said between the two. How then can you not like it? It'll be interesting to see what McIlroy says in his press conference. Until then everything is conjecture.

BigChap1759

ligerdub wrote: »

Elkington deserved everything he got and more. He went personal on McIlroy on something he couldn't have known anything about for certain. Fair enough on the likes of us making these comments, but Elkington is in the business, reaches a big audience, and should have known better.

Couldn't disagree more - Elkington is known for being a dick, somebody with more maturity would have ignored him as opposed to boasting about how much they were worth, didn't look good for Rory IMO

benny79

tobsey wrote: »

You don't know what happened or what was said between the two. How then can you not like it? It'll be interesting to see what McIlroy says in his press conference. Until then everything is conjecture.

How do you know what I know and don't know? Ireland is a small Country Lets just say after 9/10 years together he could of handled it better..

Jayop

benny79 wrote: »

I think you might of picked up my last comment wrong I was referring to the media always blaming his caddy not Rory himself obviously he can change if he wants. I just think sacked is harsh & timing after 9/10 years together while couldn't they have sat down and say look I want to try different avenues etc

Its just the manner in which it happened doesn't sit well with me.. Yes he's made a lot of money etc etc but he also showed loyalty for a long time and never put himself in the spotlight just worked away in the background same as Harro's caddy..

but agree with above

Sorry picked you up wrong Benny.

Ah it's easy to be loyal picking up a million and a half in a year. Nice change.

fullstop

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

In this preview for the Masters there were comments about JP. Such as:

Neither McIlroy or JP made those comments, which the OP had suggested...unless they talk about themselves in the third person.

AGC

Harry Diamond being tipped to get it full time according to some reports on twitter

levitronix

Seems like he only wants people around him who are family or long friends. Past few years have been going that way

levitronix

Do you think JP signed a non disclosure agreement with him ?

FixdePitchmark

I often think at these times - what is he paying his management team and pr team for.

It seems like a big drama or unplanned event every few months.

FixdePitchmark

levitronix wrote: »

Do you think JP signed a non disclosure agreement with him ?

Could be just loyalty. It does exist in the modern world.

ForeRight

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I often think at these times - what is he paying his management team and pr team for.

It seems like a big drama or unplanned event every few months.

Rory does seem to react emotionally. Good thing or bad thing who knows.
He isn't robotic like other top sports stars bjt I enjoy the surprises from him personally.

He is marmite

FixdePitchmark

ForeRight wrote: »

Rory does seem to react emotionally. Good thing or bad thing who knows.
He isn't robotic like other top sports stars bjt I enjoy the surprises from him personally.

He is marmite

It is all a bit more dramatic - I like it

But at this stage, The Dublin Footballers are run more professionally.

ForeRight

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

It is all a bit more dramatic - I like it

But at this stage, The Dublin Footballers are run more professionally.

They are more professional than most professional outfits in sports these days it seems

death1234567

levitronix wrote: »

Do you think JP signed a non disclosure agreement with him ?

Nope but Rory made him a multi millionaire and he doesn't seem like the Steve Williams type so don't expect any jp interviews anytime soon.

FixdePitchmark

By the way on the maturity thing.

He is 28 - he should be immature. And that is not an issue when you have someone in your team who - you will listen to and take advice. We don't know the bloke - but with all the stuff he does you can see he is his own man. That is a great strength - but also a weakness.

When you hear Spieth and the others talk - they genuinely buy into this team concept. They are truly immersed in it. You don't get anything like that from Rory at all.

The first time he did it (in a while) was during The Open - he sacks the lad 2 weeks later. It is very funny in a way.

Anyway - will be fascinating to see how next few months pan out.

BigChap1759

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

By the way on the maturity thing.

He is 28 - he should be immature. And that is not an issue when you have someone in your team who - you will listen to and take advice. We don't know the bloke - but with all the stuff he does you can see he is his own man. That is a great strength - but also a weakness.

When you hear Spieth and the others talk - they genuinely buy into this team concept. They are truly immersed in it. You don't get anything like that from Rory at all.

The first time he did it (in a while) was during The Open - he sacks the lad 2 weeks later. It is very funny in a way.

Anyway - will be fascinating to see how next few months pan out.

I don't have any issue with someone being their own man if they had strong views and stuck with them but Rory just seems to say whatever comes into his head, then a short time later totally contradicts himself and he does this again and again.

Look at the clubs thing - he said he wasn't going to sign a big contract and was going to take a couple of years working out what suited him best...shortly after this he signs a 14 club deal with TM

CMOTDibbler

BigChap1759 wrote: »

I don't have any issue with someone being their own man if they had strong views and stuck with them but Rory just seems to say whatever comes into his head, then a short time later totally contradicts himself and he does this again and again.

Look at the clubs thing - he said he wasn't going to sign a big contract and was going to take a couple of years working out what suited him best...shortly after this he signs a 14 club deal with TM

I don't think he said 'a couple of years', just that he'd take his time. And it was almost a year after Nike's announcement that he signed with TM.

FixdePitchmark

BigChap1759 wrote: »

I don't have any issue with someone being their own man if they had strong views and stuck with them but Rory just seems to say whatever comes into his head, then a short time later totally contradicts himself and he does this again and again.

Look at the clubs thing - he said he wasn't going to sign a big contract and was going to take a couple of years working out what suited him best...shortly after this he signs a 14 club deal with TM

But most people are extremely malleable at a young age. President Trump is at 71 . Sure I am myself from one Friday to the next.

It is a different topic, but related - what experience does Rory have to run a major operation like his golf business. He has no qualification at all. What has he done. Played golf, travelled the world and stayed in 5 star hotels. He has had people running around for him and everyone around him is payed by him.
It is a strange place to be - and at times you must feel like exerting your control over the machine around you.

People think it is a great life - and it looks it. But you could certainly crack under that spotlight. Getting his mate on the bag - is a bit of a childish act at this time of the year. Even at a basic human level , don't pay your mate to travel the world with you. Even worse - don't do it mid season , between majors when you already have too many uncertainties in your game. And - you have a loyal guy on the bag who you trusted for this long.

Like who is he actually talking these things over with ?

At the end of the day - the chemistry has not looked right between JP and Rory for a long time, it should have ended way earlier.

It could have ended in a planed way - but with Rory it genuinely seems like rush of blood to the head stuff.

And above all armchair pure mature / immature reflection.

He was right to end it with JP (IMO) -but he could have done it differently , but that is life. We all make rash decisions we regret later in life.

Do we still not have a statement - that is actually pathetic stuff.

red ears

I wonder did Spieth winning and the praise he heaped on his caddie make McIlroy think a bit about his relationship with JP. It seems Spieth's caddie really helped pull him round those last few holes of the British Open.

FixdePitchmark

red ears wrote: »

I wonder did Spieth winning and the praise he heaped on his caddie make McIlroy think a bit about his relationship with JP. It seems Spieth's caddie really helped pull him round those last few holes of the British Open.

Spieth will probably sack his caddie next week now.

ForeRight

People are saying it's a mistake to change caddy between majors but I don't really buy into that.
Rory hasn't won a major in 3 years so what's the issue with the change in relation to that.

He's hardly on a winning streak at the moment so things can't be any worse major wise

BigChap1759

ForeRight wrote: »

People are saying it's a mistake to change caddy between majors but I don't really buy into that.
Rory hasn't won a major in 3 years so what's the issue with the change in relation to that.

He's hardly on a winning streak at the moment so things can't be any worse major wise

His not winning a major has nothing to do with his caddie though - his poor putting and awful average distance with short irons/wedges is the problem - how is changing his caddie going to help this areas?!?!

Ronney

[QUOTE=BigChap1759;104256682

Look at the clubs thing - he said he wasn't going to sign a big contract and was going to take a couple of years working out what suited him best...shortly after this he signs a 14 club deal with TM[/QUOTE]

Think people need to get over the club thing,

As far as Irons go Taylormade are essentially designing a new set round his preference.

https://community.taylormadegolf.com/t5/Blog/CREATING-RORS-PROTO-IRONS-with-Tomo-Bystedt/ba-p/920

TM also are No.1 on tour for Drivers with 1/2 the lads averaging 300+ using them

I would say I'm a bit surprised he didnt go 13 clubs keeping putter out as no matter how close it looks or feels, psychologically its not the same as an other brand

BigChap1759

Ronney wrote: »

Think people need to get over the club thing,

As far as Irons go Taylormade are essentially designing a new set round his preference.

https://community.taylormadegolf.com/t5/Blog/CREATING-RORS-PROTO-IRONS-with-Tomo-Bystedt/ba-p/920

TM also are No.1 on tour for Drivers with 1/2 the lads averaging 300+ using them

I would say I'm a bit surprised he didnt go 13 clubs keeping putter out as no matter how close it looks or feels, psychologically its not the same as an other brand

This is part of the problem though - he obviously did 14 clubs because they threw a load of extra money at him - he has "more like $200m" in the bank but he's prepared to handicap himself with a TM putter for a few more dollars.....

CMOTDibbler

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

People think it is a great life - and it looks it. But you could certainly crack under that spotlight. Getting his mate on the bag - is a bit of a childish act at this time of the year. Even at a basic human level , don't pay your mate to travel the world with you. Even worse - don't do it mid season , between majors when you already have too many uncertainties in your game. And - you have a loyal guy on the bag who you trusted for this long.

If you lose trust in your bag man, it has to end straight away. You can't go out on the course second guessing every piece of advice he gives you. And if you replace them pro tem, it has to be somebody that you have a relationship with. Hiring a new caddy takes time and building a relationship and their knowledge of your game also takes time. I can't see him hiring anyone until after the Tour Championship. Both because it's a pretty intense run in and because no caddy will switch bags in the middle of all that. Unless they're already free that is.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Do we still not have a statement - that is actually pathetic stuff.

Getting one today afaik.