Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Larbre34

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Amgen are footing the bill for pottery road, as a sweetener for rezoning the land around the hospital and The old football pitch.

Eamon Gilmore took credit for arranging that.

Design wise everything has changed again in recent years. As we know, private cars are at the bottom of the food chain, so traffic lanes have been reduced in width (also a speed management measure) and cycle lanes widened. And its an adopted national policy, not just DLR or Pottery Road or any of those roundabouts.

As a consultant planner its very frustrating to have these priorities continually changing.

Its called the Design Manual for Urban Roads and Streets, read it all below if you are suffering from insomnia sometime.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,32670,en.pdf

Chinasea

It's a no brainer to incorporate bicycle lanes into all roads. Proper decent ones and all. Only to be commended. Delighted about this in Pottery. Must go and participate.

coylemj

Larbre34 wrote: »

As we know, private cars are at the bottom of the food chain, so traffic lanes have been reduced in width (also a speed management measure) and cycle lanes widened.

+1 and in Ballymoss Road in Sandyford Ind Estate outside the China Sichuan restaurant where parking is pretty difficult at lunchtime most days, the council has just 'converted' one of the parking spots to a cycle parking bay with three of those metal chrome brackets and surprise, surprise, today at lunchtime there wasn't a single bicycle bolted to any of them.

The proprietor of the restaurant (who pays a bucket load of commercial rates) told me that short of embedding metal spikes in the road, the council couldn't do more to fcuk up his lunchtime trade.

ted1

coylemj wrote: »

+1 and in Ballymoss Road in Sandyford Ind Estate outside the China Sichuan restaurant where parking is pretty difficult at lunchtime most days, the council has just 'converted' one of the parking spots to a cycle parking bay with three of those metal chrome brackets and surprise, surprise, today at lunchtime there wasn't a single bicycle bolted to any of them.

The proprietor of the restaurant (who pays a bucket load of commercial rates) told me that short of embedding metal spikes in the road, the council couldn't do more to fcuk up his lunchtime trade.

So lets get this straight, they remove one space and replace it with room for 6 people? Seems like a good idea to me. It's being a bad week for cycling I'm sure that he'll see the benefit over time

coylemj

ted1 wrote: »

So lets get this straight, they remove one space and replace it with room for 6 people? Seems like a good idea to me. It's being a bad week for cycling I'm sure that he'll see the benefit over time

'Over time'? If not today, when do you expect he will be benefiting from lunchtime trade from cyclists? Anyone who works locally and rides a bike to work already has a cycle park in their office car park, the council had no business removing a car parking bay outside this restaurant to set aside a spot for casual bicycles.

Right outside that business there's already two disabled parking spots (never legally occupied when I'm there) and a loading bay (ditto) so removing yet another car parking spot was seriously taking the p1ss. Even in remote parts of an industrial estate, the council treat the car as the enemy.

ted1

How much lunch time trade could one space offer? One cover?

Tabnabs

ted1 wrote: »

How much lunch time trade could one space offer? One cover?

That's the beauty of cars over bicycles, a car carries many people, a bicycle; just one.

forever alone

Kingp35

Ireland has traditionally been terrible for accommodating cyclists, it's about time we got our act together to incorporate better cycling lanes to allow people to travel to places without the need for a car. All you have to do is look at many of the capital cities on main land Europe, particularly the likes of Copenhagen, to see that building high quality cycle lanes is a great idea. Better for peoples health, better for the environment, better for peoples finances, better for traffic congestion. I don't see where the problem lies.

As for taking up the parking space with bike racks, the reason people aren't using the bike racks at the moment is because of the huge crime rate with regards to bikes being stolen. You can't leave your bike locked in any public place in Dublin for fear of it being stolen so people won't use these racks in high numbers until this problem is lessened.

coylemj

ted1 wrote: »

How much lunch time trade could one space offer? One cover?

He's open until well after 3 so could easily do two covers, a lot more than he could get from the absent cyclists. Nor did the barber and coffee shop beside him succeed in attracting any cyclists at lunchtime yesterday, further proof that there is no demand for the facility.

zagmund

If you measure an available cycle parking spot as a failure, do you also measure an available car parking spot in the same way? If so, you you think that all empty car parking spots are a waste and the council have no business providing them?

Tabnabs - there are spaces for multiple bikes in the space for one car.

I still think that the model I saw in NZ years ago would go down well on a number of fronts here - provide 10-15 minutes free parking bays in high visibility spots (like outside shops). That way customers are happy (free parking) & retailers are happy (customers can park right outside, drop in, spend money). The people who need to park all day park elsewhere, the people who need to "pop into the shops" can do so, knowing that the casual spots aren't taken by all-day'rs.

z

Tabnabs

zagmund wrote: »

Tabnabs - there are spaces for multiple bikes in the space for one car.

I understand that. But that was entirely not my point...

markpb

Tabnabs wrote: »

I understand that. But that was entirely not my point...

So you're okay explaining to us that a space for a single car can carry multiple people but unhappy when someone explains to you that the same single space can accommodate multiple bikes? In either case, the number of people being accommodated is the same but somehow that's not your point (any more).

Anyway I'd be really surprised if many of that restaurants lunchtime customers came by car. In fact, having eaten there numerous times at lunch, most of the clientele (including mysel) arrived on foot which is hardly surprising given the thousands of people who work within a five minute walk.

coylemj

zagmund wrote: »

If you measure an available cycle parking spot as a failure, do you also measure an available car parking spot in the same way? If so, you you think that all empty car parking spots are a waste and the council have no business providing them?

The place is permanently full of cars at lunchtime, all paying DLR co co for the privilege so yes, I do regard the withdrawal of even one car parking bay as a failure when all six of the available slots for cycles lie unused.

Since there are multiple businesses in the area catering for casual callers, I also think that the loading bay should be usable as a regular car parking slot say between 12 and 2 to facilitate the restaurant and coffee shop in attracting business. This is not just cars v. cyclists, it's about local authorities making more intelligent use of parking facilities.

Tabnabs

markpb wrote: »

So you're okay explaining to us that a space for a single car can carry multiple people but unhappy when someone explain that the same single space can accommodate multiple bikes? In either case, the number of people being accommodated is the same.

Also not what I said, bravo

zagmund

I was talking about a car space with no car in it, not about a withdrawn car space. Is a car space with no car in it a failure?

z

coylemj wrote: »

The place is permanently full of cars at lunchtime, all paying DLR co co for the privilege so yes, I do regard the withdrawal of even one car parking bay as a failure when all six of the available slots for cycles lie unused.

Since there are multiple businesses in the area catering for casual callers, I also think that the loading bay should be usable as a regular car parking slot say between 12 and 2 to facilitate the restaurant and coffee shop in attracting business. This is not just cars v. cyclists, it's about local authorities making more intelligent use of parking facilities.

patrickbrophy18

On the subject of Pottery Road, I think that they have done an excellent job. The road in it's previous state was too narrow with pot holes galore which made it unsuitable for bikes, pedestrians, cars and buses. Some parts didn't even have a footpath which was foreboding as a pedestrian. Now, it has ample space for all of the above road users (i.e. the stretch that has been completed). Having driven down it recently, the traffic lanes are of comfortable width (I don't know the exact specs). As a pedestrian, I feel much safer on the sidewalks and the cycle tracks look very spacious too. The work done on this road should be the template for all future road improvements. Where bus traffic is heavy, provide bus lanes as well as footpaths, cycle tracks and standard traffic lanes.

RainyDay

Larbre34 wrote: »

As a consultant planner its very frustrating to have these priorities continually changing.

Its called the Design Manual for Urban Roads and Streets, read it all below if you are suffering from insomnia sometime.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,32670,en.pdf

Constantly changing? Shurley shome mishtake - DMURS is a once-in-a-generation publication.

coylemj wrote: »

+1 and in Ballymoss Road in Sandyford Ind Estate outside the China Sichuan restaurant where parking is pretty difficult at lunchtime most days, the council has just 'converted' one of the parking spots to a cycle parking bay with three of those metal chrome brackets and surprise, surprise, today at lunchtime there wasn't a single bicycle bolted to any of them.

The proprietor of the restaurant (who pays a bucket load of commercial rates) told me that short of embedding metal spikes in the road, the council couldn't do more to fcuk up his lunchtime trade.

coylemj wrote: »

'Over time'? If not today, when do you expect he will be benefiting from lunchtime trade from cyclists? Anyone who works locally and rides a bike to work already has a cycle park in their office car park, the council had no business removing a car parking bay outside this restaurant to set aside a spot for casual bicycles.

Right outside that business there's already two disabled parking spots (never legally occupied when I'm there) and a loading bay (ditto) so removing yet another car parking spot was seriously taking the p1ss. Even in remote parts of an industrial estate, the council treat the car as the enemy.

coylemj wrote: »

The place is permanently full of cars at lunchtime, all paying DLR co co for the privilege so yes, I do regard the withdrawal of even one car parking bay as a failure when all six of the available slots for cycles lie unused.

Since there are multiple businesses in the area catering for casual callers, I also think that the loading bay should be usable as a regular car parking slot say between 12 and 2 to facilitate the restaurant and coffee shop in attracting business. This is not just cars v. cyclists, it's about local authorities making more intelligent use of parking facilities.

It seems to be about a very narrow view of who uses restaurants - no cyclists welcome, no people with disabilities welcome. I wonder how hard Mr Sichuan has worked at marketing the new facility? I don't see any nice photos of the new cycle bay or the disabled parking stops on their Facebook page. I do see that they sponsored a cycle event, but don't seem to do anything to welcome cyclists. There is pretty good research showing how improved facilities for cyclists is good for retailers, but some people don't seem to be able to see beyond the top of their steering wheel.

Chinasea

Small towns win
"Studies show visiting cyclists tend to spend more on food and services than a traveller passing through in a car. After hours of pedalling, they have raging appetites — and feel more inclined to pamper themselves.
Also, smaller towns tend to gain more from a rise in cycle tourism because these travellers are more likely to venture away from big-city attractions than those in a car, research shows.
Some smaller communities are taking the initiative to paint themselves as cyclist-friendly destinations.
A resident of Twin Bridges, a tiny town of 400 in Montana that sits at the fork of several rivers and touts itself as a fly-fishing destination, decided to welcome cyclists.
Intrigued by the stories of the Lycra-clad visitors passing through, one man convinced the town to invest $9,000 to build a basic shelter for cyclists, and then ask for visitors' donations to maintain it.
Word of the friendly overture spread on the cycling grapevine. And now local stores, the town laundromat and restaurants are benefiting from the rise in cycling visitors.
The initiative speaks to a broader truth about cycling tourism, notes Pronovost: "If you don't have the infrastructure, you won't be in the destination guides."

On a side note, its great to see Dun Laoghaire have finally started to put some bicycle stands around the town. Hurra. Hurra. Yes, some bike stands are empty and yes we are terrified to lock our bikes outdoors, but raising awareness can only help.

josip

Would Dun Laoghaire have many leisurely passing through cyclists?

Chinasea

josip wrote: »

Would Dun Laoghaire have many leisurely passing through cyclists?

Yes if they, and their families don't get killed on the roads getting there.

coylemj

Chinasea wrote: »

Small towns win
"Studies show visiting cyclists tend to spend more on food and services than a traveller passing through in a car. After hours of pedalling, they have raging appetites — and feel more inclined to pamper themselves.

Yes, I'm sure cyclists have 'raging' appetites when they finally get their butts off their saddles and attempt to spend money. The trouble is that the last place they go to satisfy that appetite is restaurants and pubs, more like that they buy bread rolls and slices of ham in the local Spar.

Please don't insult us with false statistics. Cyclists passing through a town spend sod all compared to people driving cars.

Did you dare to tell us the source of that quote?

Alias G

It would appear that nimbyism around these parts can even extend to cycling facilities with some folk. One of the reasons I choose to live in an urban environment like this is so that I don't become enslaved to my car.

ted1

coylemj wrote: »

Yes, I'm sure cyclists have 'raging' appetites when they finally get their butts off their saddles and attempt to spend money. The trouble is that the last place they go to satisfy that appetite is restaurants and pubs, more like that they buy bread rolls and slices of ham in the local Spar.

Stop talking nonsense. I changed jobs in August and went from doing 50,000km a year to nil. I've a 30km commute from Killiney to Ballsbridge and back each day. At weekends I meet up with some guys from the cycling forum and we go for a spin, mid point we stop off in a local coffee shop parking 10 bikes it do outside taking up little space. The coffee shop takes a nice bit of money of us.

As regards pubs? With the drinking driving laws. Motorists don't spend money in pubs

Chinasea

coylemj wrote: »

Yes, I'm sure cyclists have 'raging' appetites when they finally get their butts off their saddles and attempt to spend money. The trouble is that the last place they go to satisfy that appetite is restaurants and pubs, more like that they buy bread rolls and slices of ham in the local Spar.

Please don't insult us with false statistics. Cyclists passing through a town spend sod all compared to people driving cars.

Did you dare to tell us the source of that quote?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/is-canada-missing-the-boat-on-cycling-tourists-1.2717129 and there are plenty more studies with similar stats.

There is a drive by Kentucky in Carrickmines, maybe you should ask if they could turn it into a drive in while they are at it.

Qualitymark

coylemj wrote: »

Please don't insult us with false statistics. Cyclists passing through a town spend sod all compared to people driving cars.
Did you dare to tell us the source of that quote?

Several studies from different countries have found that people spend more when they're cycling - not because they go in and spend, spend, spend in one go, but because they buy more often. Here's one from Australia

http://colabradio.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Final_Thesis_Alison_Lee.pdf

but you'll find others from Canada, the US, Britain and Europe if you do a quick google.

It's just easier to tie up your bike and go in and do a quick shop. When I'm cycling, I tend to say "Oh, hmm, I need a chicken for dinner" and hop off the bike and go into Lidl, and find myself buying a bunch of other stuff and packing it into the basket, then probably going for a coffee and a coconut-and-lemon macaroon, and then a friend turns up… If I have to find parking for the car, I'll do one big shop a week and that's it.

There's really no need to divide people into adversarial groups of 'cyclists', 'drivers' and 'pedestrians'. Most of us are all three.

RainyDay

coylemj wrote: »

Yes, I'm sure cyclists have 'raging' appetites when they finally get their butts off their saddles and attempt to spend money. The trouble is that the last place they go to satisfy that appetite is restaurants and pubs, more like that they buy bread rolls and slices of ham in the local Spar.

coylemj

RainyDay wrote: »

And you consider yourself open-minded with this attitude...

RainyDay wrote: »

......some people don't seem to be able to see beyond the top of their steering wheel.

People in glasshouses ...

zagmund

And now for something completely different . . .

I was in the new 40 Foot this morning for breakfast. I think they are due to open some time this week, but they were doing trial runs today to see how everything worked. There were free breakfasts to be had. The food was "grand", but it was definitely good value. Their big breakfast is unfeasibly large - I can't see many people finishing everything on the plate. I actually had their kids breakfast and it was loads.

The view was nice, the interior was nice. It was good to see some local art work on the walls.

z

p.s. I can't possibly comment on my mode of transport for fear of setting something off.

trishasaffron

I have some non perishable food items to donate. Any idea where in Dun L might b interested?

Fratton Fred

trishasaffron wrote: »

I have some non perishable food items to donate. Any idea where in Dun L might b interested?

Christ Church in Dun Laoghaire, the CofI church next to the people's park, has a kitchen where they help feed local homeless and needy people.

I'm sure Revd Asa would be pleased to take any donations.