Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

patrickbrophy18

In an ideal world, there would be complete segregation between the road user groups and enforced at that. The very big nation wide problem is the complete lack of continuous i.e. non disruptive facilities.

For example, it is a very common problem to see parking in cycle lanes as well as actual designated parking spots on them. This forces cyclists to take to the main carriageway as it creates an abrupt stop. Another issue is poor maintanence of cycle lanes which gives rise to pot holes which again is not conducive for the use there of.

A lot of roads in the burrough of Dun Laoghaire itself are also two way, narrow and lack a footpath on some sections. Adding footpaths on some of these roads nevermind cycle lanes would encroach on the scarcity of road width between residential boundary walls. This holds true in large portions of Killiney, Dalkey, Glenageary and some parts of Sandycove.

The road network in the burrough wasn't designed holistically i.e. on the macro level to comfortably allow seamless permeability for all road user groups from pedestrian and cyclists up to buses and trucks. Addressing these issues properly would require a mixture of making narrow two way roads one-way, a whole heap of CPOs and in extreme cases structural demolition or relocation. Structural relocation has not been explored nearly as much as it could be where the owners of said structures are sentimental about them or if they are listed.

Consequently, the infrastructure in the burrow is a disjointed mess. Anyway, I'll leave it there.

Larbre34

The Borough of Dun Laoghaire ceased to exist 27 years ago.

And the ambling and varied nature of the streets in the area are a big part of its character. Who the hell wants to live in the middle of an American style grid of four-lane urban roads entirely hostile to pedestrians?

Not me anyway.

And nor do I want my front garden CPOd either to make way for the childer to cycle to school.

People who pay high rates of property tax have the right to invest int heir homes and gardens without worrying about officials drawing up plans to turn their gardens into cycling lanes.

qb123

So we don't want four-lane roads hostile to pedestrians, nor do we want to CPO gardens. And I think the vast majority of people would agree with these sentiments. So the only viable alternative is to take space away from cars, painful as it may be. And the reason it's so painful is that we've spent the last 100 years orienting our towns and roads to cater for cars at the expense of pedestrians, bicycles and public transport. But it seems clear that he status quo has to change given our need to adapt for climate change and for an increased population in the country - the roads can't bear any more cars.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958986#Comment_117958986

If I read it correctly, its only those who live in expensive houses and pay high rates of property tax that shouldn't be subject to the threat of CPO. The plebs can look after themselves.

But that my interpretation, could be wrong?

No point in taking space away from cars to put in cycling lanes that arent used.

This is just causing congestion and making other roads more dangerous.

We cant put cycle lanes everywhere with out putting CPOs on gardens and you have to think how do you get into cycle lanes and how do you get out of them.

The only solution is better public transport, more rent a car option, more car-sharing in new developments but covid has made many people not want to interract with others so giving up their own car will be difficult.

qb123

But...properly segregated cycle lanes are used when they're put there. The Coastal Mobility Route is evidence of this with over 5000 trips per week. And it's proved its worth through the winter months too - a noticeable amount of school children use it, for instance. Just because you would put your bicycle away at the first sign of inclement weather doesn't mean that everyone else does.

The coastal mobility route isnt very busy now, hasnt been since other recreational options opened up.

It will be dark, wet and windy shortly, very hard to cycle on the seafront then.

I just left the traffic on carysfort ave as did the three cars in front of me, we went through the housing estate and the opposite way to Stillorgan, much quicker.

I am picking up someone from the Luas, about six teens sitting waiting to be picked up, if there was a mini bus service to bring these students nearer their homes then parents wouldnt need to drive to collect them.

I didnt pass one single cyclist on my route, as I said, the solution is better public transport.

patrickbrophy18

Amen qb123. Arguments against significant infrastructure improvements are entirely self defeating. This is why nothing can be done right in this country. Unless, we have significant road changes across the burrough (no exceptions like "me heritage town"), the chaos and disjointedness will continue.

The use of heritage to impose, appropriate or glamorize limitations on a towns function or accessibility is somewhat akin to a very mildly disabled person using it to forgo achievable tasks. We should be aiming up and not down.

While I am aware of the fact that people claim exclusiveness of some parts of the burrough as a unique selling point, it only serves to encourage future generations of residents to become car dependent over a feature which is equal parts myopic, self-serving and ego boosting. Some of these people then resort to using the heritage status in a thinly veiled attempt at keeping themselves propped up.

NOW, I am NOT saying that the heritage of the burrough should be tarnishished beyond recognition or whole towns ripped asunder. If co-ordinated correctly, roads can be improved for ALL road users while maintaining the bulk of an areas heritage.

As to the assertion about American style grid system. At least they are designed to be future proof, are easy to navigate and allow for scalability of commercial, residential and industrial density. This is an attractive feature for would be residents who are looking for convenience and efficiency.

Regarding the other half of that statement, a road is only hostile to pedestrians if they are not observant of their surroundings with the exception of dangerous drivers (i.e. those who break red lights and speed among the myriad of other driving offences).

I would also argue that a ban on jaywalking should be introduced in urban areas to prevent people from just stepping out on to the road on red without even bothering to look. I even see some pedestrians get aggravated when motorists call them out on this by means of beeping at them.

If motorists have to obey traffic lights, so too should the other road user groups. There should be one standard for all and NOT double standards. I think everyone will agree that zombie members from each road user group with their heads buried in their phones while in motion is particularly frustrating, especially at junctions.

Larbre34

But they ARE heritage towns Patrick, or at the very least beautiful old style streetscapes, that people greatly value. As usual you are talking nonsense about the amount of major capital works you suggest should be done for the benefit of traffic flow. You would have the place destroyed and unrecognisable, give it a rest, nobody takes it seriously.

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960251#Comment_117960251

As per usual, you are taking my posts way out of context. A place can look largely the same and be higher functioning. In my opinion, it is very insidious to use the heritage of any town as an excuse to place shackles on its function and accessibility. From a functional stand point, this leads to wasted opportunities while from an accessibility stand point, it keeps cars on the road. How exactly is improved accessibility and function destroying it or making it unrecognizable?

On a personal level, I am not talking nonsense. You are just very set in your ways given your rigidness with a myopic approach to town planning. Yourself and a couple of other boardie's mightn't take me seriously. As usual, your criticisms come off as sanctimonious and condescending.

I agree about everyone obeying the rules.

A cyclist sailed through both a bike light and the red light today, he either didnt notice the Garda car behind me or didnt care. what was the point of spending money on those bike lights if they are ignored.

Of course if an oncoming car hit him it would be the motorists fault.

qb123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959817#Comment_117959817

The cyclists were already home as they didn't get stuck in traffic ;)

The CMR has a steady stream of cyclists on it throughout the day and, as I said earlier, proved its worth through the winter months last year. Just been on it a while ago to get to Tesco and passed several others. And bike racks at Tesco busy enough, so there's some evidence that if you provide the right infrastructure people will use it. Here's it at 6:30 today.

20210930_183203.jpg

qb123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960251#Comment_117960251

I'd agree they are heritage towns and we don't want to destroy them. Massive capital works aren't needed for what I'm talking about, just a reconfiguring of road space.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960251#Comment_117960251

I agree, DL is a heritage town, with fantastic assets in terms of it buildings, seafront and great potential in its streetscapes, surrounds and history.

I was listening to an interview with passengers at the new railway station opened this week in Pelletstown, one lady passed the remark that it was great that they could now go all the way to DL by train. People see DL as a destination town, a place that they want to visit and spend some time. It should be developed as such. But development of DL as a destination town is not going to happen on the back of huge capital works to facilitate traffic and consequently, creating uncomfortable grotty streets full of cars, buses or lorries. People have enough of that at home. They wont want to travel to DL for more of the same, that's for sure.

Case in point, look at DL's sister town, Cobh (Queenstown) in Cork. I know that town very well. They have slowly been developing Cobh as a destination town for a number of years and now, from a fairly rundown place in the 70's and 80's, similar to DL in a lot of ways, it is now a fantastic place to visit. People come from the city to eat or have a day out and increasingly (pre covid) American and other tourists from visiting liners were choosing to stay and explore the town, as opposed to traveling elsewhere. Its good for business. Its good for everyone!

Maybe DL could learn lessons from its southern sister?

People don’t go to Dunlaoghaire to see the town, have you seen UpperGeorges Street recently, it’s a dive.

People travel to see the sea, to walk the pier and to eat ice cream, then they leave.

So why should locals have to give up their cars etc, are the good folk of Pelletstown going to give up their cars and road space so I can have a nice day out in Pelletstown( wherever that is), they most certainly are not.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960821#Comment_117960821

TP, I do admire your stamina and your ability for spouting such sh*te.

I like Howth but there are a lot of cars there and it’s hard to get parking.

I think we should make the roads one way and remove all cars from the streets.

The village will be much quieter,sure the locals can just stay at home so they and their smelly cars don’t spoil my day out.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960821#Comment_117960821

They're giving up their cars, because the new homes they are purchasing have either one assigned parking space, or none at all.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117960958#Comment_117960958

So you’re coming around to making Carysfort one way up and along newtownpark. Could even stop off in the wishing well for a gin snifter to stiffen the nerves before going onto DL. Because I know how anxious you get about going down there 🙂

Larbre34

© Kevin Denny on Facebook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961148#Comment_117961148

Making Carysfort Avenue one way is the most ridiculous suggestion, You are making this discussion pointless.

The traffic light sequencing at thejunction of carysfort and Stillorgan Park is causing chaos, traffic has never been as bad.

Is this being done deliberately to make driving so difficult people will walk or cycle.Its not working, parents are going back to the office so need to drop children to school on the way.

Do we need to provide more free school buses in the cities, this would be one solution, a fleet of mini buses for every school to pick up children and drop them home.

Our local school is supportive of safe travel to school but the staff car park is full of cars.😀😄👀the talking is easy but teachers etc need to lead by example.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961065#Comment_117961065

Wasnt someone murdered in a housing estate over parking issues.

I certainly wouldnt buy anywhere without sufficient parking.

Some buyers though would be happy enough to share cars, young single people especially in locations were good public transport is available.

Larbre34

Yeah, by a deeply mentally ill woman. Cop on.

Whats a deeply mentally ill person,is that a diagnosis.

Parking issues cause huge stress to residents and building too much accomodation and leaving residents to fight over insufficient spaces is a recipe for disaster.

Its a good idea in urban areas with lots of facilities and good public transport and where the majority of the tenants are young renters.

Most people though do want the freedom a car gives them and while Local Authority, Civil Service and Dail car parks are full with car drivers its a bit much for Joe Public to be told he needs to buy a bike.

patrickbrophy18

Amen. The Dail is a haven for virtue signalling and telling "Joe Public" what they want to hear (for the votes, of course) and reneging on it. Case in point, MetroLink. "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" is a story that comes to mind.

That being said, until there is significant infrastructure and/or public transport improvements and not just the proposals for the Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock contingent, I will continue using my car.

Sadly, some posters here jump the gun and take my points to mean demolish entire heritage towns beyond recognition with knee jerk reactions or condescending remarks.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117963891#Comment_117963891

One that they sent to the Central Mental Hospital following her arraignment 20 months ago and has not appeared in a Court since. And don't get smart with me.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964557#Comment_117964557

"Structural relocation has not been explored nearly as much as it could be where the owners of said structures are sentimental about them"

Actually Patrick, I don't take your words to mean any more or less than what they literally say. But that is quite ridiculous enough in itself without anyone else having to exaggerate for you. See above

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964714#Comment_117964714

Someone lost their life over a car parking space, that is the point.

Building large developments in areas where there isnt good public transport is not a good idea as it will lead to disputes, bern there, done that.

Grow up, “ dont get smart with me”, are you twelve years of age.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117964750#Comment_117964750

No, but thats the level one must communicate with you at it seems.