Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Larbre34

You can be my wing man anytime.

patrickbrophy18

I find it hilarious how virtuous and assuming some of the anti-car retoric is. There are people who by choice or ability wont want to cycle just like there are those who dont want to take public transport or walk. It is called freedom of choice.

Punishing those who choose not to cycle or walk by implementing measures based on the very myopic and one sided DMURS/NCM is obnoxious. It is the next best thing to a violation of civil liberties.

For businesses, this sadly results in a tonne of compliance related paper work and resultant overheads. This builds a huge amount of risk into the decisions of any would-be entrepreneur wishing to establish a traditional brick and morter shop in suburbia. That doesn't include the inconvenience that will drive (no pun intended) many potential customers away from those shops.

qb123

It's not anti-car rhetoric, it's pro-cycling. (ok, some of it here is anti-car or anti-cycling, but that's largely because of the decline in the tone of this thread, especially since a certain contributor joined.) Cars can easily and safely access all areas of the county; for those who choose to cycle it's can be an unnerving experience given the lack of road space afforded by cars. This is a big part of the reason why fewer women and children cycle - they don't feel safe. Whereas if you do provide safe cycling infrastructure, ala the CMR, you can see greater numbers cycling and more women, children and older people. Unfortunately to make it safer for cycling entails taking a little road space from cars (it can't be taken from pedestrians as they already have pitifully little), and this does put drivers out because they have to drive a little bit further or wait in traffic a bit longer. But the road is a scarce resource and the dominance of cars has to be reversed, not just to cater for cyclists, but also public transport initiatives such as bus connects.

Women and children dont cycle because its easier to drive or take a bus.

so patronising to link women and children together as if women are pathetic weaklings afraid to cycle.

The CMR is mainly a nice jsunt on a sunny day, its empty most of the week.

And closing off half of Seapoint Ave isnt taking a little bit of roadspace, its caused traffic to divert to other roads and its causing gridlock on Monkstown Road.

This decision needs to be reviewed, it was al very well doing this in March 2020 under a covid emergency cover when everyone was at home.

Traffic is worse than ever now and both Roads to Dunlaoghaire need to be open to traffic, close Seapoint southbound on sunday afternoon but it definitely needs to be open the rest of the week.

Mav11

@patrickbrophy18 : What does this mean? Thanks

DMURS/NCM

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012267#Comment_118012267

DMURS: Design Manual for Urban Roads and Streets

NCM: National Cycle Manual

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012279#Comment_118012279

Thanks. I didn't know that these publications existed.

Larbre34

DMURS is a farce of a thing. Biggest threat to safety, particularly cyclists in my opinion, in decades.

I know of at least 10 schemes around Dublin where roads and junctions and roundabouts were revamped according to DMURS specifications and the inherent dangers they introduced had to be rowed back on after local outcry. It has removed left slips, narrowed turning radii and changed yield priorities in some instances.

So bad was it that the 2013 version was substantially replaced in 2019. There was a supplement issued for Covid guidance, but in really it was toothless and without any sort of strategic basis.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010901#Comment_118010901

Freedom of choice, but it shouldn't be freedom of choice. You shouldn't be allowed drive and park your toxic fume spewing tank wherever you want. It infringes on other people. People used to say the same about smoking before it was banned indoors, they're taking our freedoms.

Your so called freedom is wrecking things for other people. Private cars need to be cut out of our lives as much as possible especially in cities, whether granny wants to drive around Dun Laoghaire or not, and very slowly the tide is turning that way.

And personally I couldn't care less if a few very old people can't get to certain places because of the banning of cars, tough. We must do what is best for the majority. I wont expect to be driven wherever I want to go when I'm old and decrepit, the world doesn't revolve around a tiny percentage of people who can't walk a few meters, and nor should it.

Larbre34

You showed your true colours there TM.

The mark of a society is how it treats its most vulnerable and those with less of a voice. Thats why your zealotry won't be allowed succeed, in Dun Laoghaire or elsewhere.

Personal private transport will change - is already changing in fact - and there will be a greater rebalancing of safety and accessibility, but it won't be to the exclusion of one mode or another. You might as well get that notion out of your head early on.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014871#Comment_118014871

You're the only zealot here Larbs. Also are you telling me the likes of Berlin, Paris, and other cities that are removing cars from vast areas, are all treating the vulnerable terribly? Give me a break, the likes of you use the old and disabled to try and stop any change, it's pathetic.

Larbre34

When we develop out our public transport to the standard, relatively speaking, of Berlin, Paris and other cities, then we can have a legitimate in conversation on that level.

The carrot must precede the stick, it really is the only credible game in town.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015025#Comment_118015025

so the old and vulnerable can get on the U-Bahn or Buses? Don't they need to be driven around?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010901#Comment_118010901

"When You’re Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression"

Larbre34

That may be so Andy, but good luck fighting the well resourced, you might as well collaborate.

Gareth Keenan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014876#Comment_118014876

That first sentence 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016243#Comment_118016243

"a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals."

TM, Andrew and others are perfectly happy to take on third party opinions, defer to expert knowledge and give weight to real world evidence. Larbre and his ilk run away from all those things as soon as they run counter to their risible opinions, instead hiding in circlejerking each other's increasingly desperate snide andcondescending truisms that [b]never hold up to any scrutiny whatsoever[/b]. If they did hold up to scrutiny, any one of them would actually be able to defend the nonsense that they post and yet here we are.

"😂"

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118020624#Comment_118020624

The people i agree with make excellent points, the others not so much....

patrickbrophy18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015580#Comment_118015580

Well, equality can feel like oppression when businesses have to comply with the increasing scrutiny and extortionate processes implemented by governments at the behest of social justice groups before they even get off the ground. In the context of Commuting and Traffic, such businesses will have to cave to the requirements of the DMURS along with the countless other rigours which cost them big in overheads. In my opinion, the DMURS often comes off as a socialists guide to road design where the requirements almost scrutinize the type of footfall to the affected businesses. Ergo, this puts limitations on the potential income which a business can yield.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118020890#Comment_118020890

Funnily enough, the evidence around the world shows clearly that measures like pedestrianisation greatly increase consumer spending. There's a reason why Grafton St has some of the highest rents in Europe.

Larbre34

And Oxford Street of London? Kurfürstendamm of Berlin? All have plenty of vehicle traffic.

Grafton Street was always a hugely popular shopping street long before it was pedestrianised. Pedestrianisation has certainly enhanced it, but as part of a wider strategic city centre offering.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015025#Comment_118015025

The only way to develop public transport to even a halfway decent standard in Dún Laoghaire, is to remove as many cars from the roads as possible and replace on-street parking with bus lanes. Parked cars hinder buses on almost every road into and out of the town. Glenageary Rd and the top half of York Rd are currently the only places where doing so is illegal, but it still happens regardless, and is largely unpoliced. You'll be a long time waiting for a carrot to precede a stick because even if hundreds of new buses were thrown onto the roads, they'd still be trying to squeeze past cars.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030750#Comment_118030750

Could you do that with a removal of on street parking? I'm not a great fan of traffic myself, but many of the residents have no other choice but to park on the street.

Larbre34

You're right Mav. It works in cases where alternatives are available or provided, but as a panacea, Burt's suggestion is nonsense.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035736#Comment_118035736

They have other choices. But those choices would involve inconveniencing themselves, rather than just inconveniencing, you know, other people.

Park elsewhere. Rent a secure parking space a short distance away. Or just get rid of the car and use public transport instead. Buses should not be forced to waste time squeezing past parked cars on roads that aren't wide enough.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049127#Comment_118049127

Yes, if you buy a property without off street parking. You can’t rely on the public to provide you with parking in the public owned road outside your house.

Larbre34

Yes, within reason, you absolutely can, because it has been custom and practice for a century or more. So many roads of the mid to late 20th century were designed specifically with it in mind.

Statements like the last two above from Burt and Ted simply do not reflect the real world.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049326#Comment_118049326

Smoking in pubs was custom and practice for a century or more. Obnoxious, selfish customs change, thankfully. Sometimes people need to be nudged in the right direction.

There are too many cars nowadays to allow people to store them at their convenience in public areas. And they're bigger too. I can't think of a single road in or out of Dún Laoghaire that has on-street parking spaces wide enough to safely accommodate a modern parked car and passing buses. I know people who live in areas of Dublin where it's literally not possible to park outside their own houses. They solve this problem themselves either by renting secure spaces in the underground car park of a nearby apartment block, or getting rid of their cars altogether and availing of public transport and the occasional hire car.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049326#Comment_118049326

The real world that had people in Ireland parking their cars outside their houses in 1921 and before?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049326#Comment_118049326

A century. That’s a bit of a stretch. Many roads were built for horse and carts, bikes etc. Cars were an after though

look at street view vs the pictures

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-10-breffni-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/3581407

I suggest you look at breffni road , all the houses there have just put off street parking in. For 500 years they have been parking on the road. The road is now much more passable.