Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405129#Comment_121405129

Larbre34 knows better than them what they need because they're a professional planner, not a Green voter. And what they need is parking on their doorstep, congestion on their main street and unfettered access to the airport via Strand road.

Larbre34

Two separate meetings held tonight locally on the Living Streets proposals, combined attendance of 400-500. Its certainly exercising local debate!

Whatever your view, make a submission, closing date is next week, 16th Jan.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599567#Comment_121599567

Thanks. I did mistakenly read that as "Living on the Streets" though and through it was a PBP meeting.

Ref your previous posting: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284779/#Comment_121284779

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599567#Comment_121599567

Any idea as to the general mood of the meetings as in a yea or nay?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601506#Comment_121601506

I heard nothing about the smaller meeting in The Graduate organised by the Soc Dems, but comments online suggest the room was fairly evenly split at the large meeting in the Royal Marine. I've been trying to find out who organised the Royal Marine meeting but no luck so far. It was a group who wanted to propose significant amendments to the plan.

But apparently Bobby Kerr agreed to Chair it, and did so very effectively.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601610#Comment_121601610

It would seem like it will rumble on for awhile so!

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601634#Comment_121601634

The Council exec are talking about getting the Members to vote on it by March at the latest. I think they're dreaming.

The reason for the urgency seems to be, that to avail of the 'Pathfinder' funding, which is set to fund the 20 million for this lark, the scheme has to be in place by end 2025.

I get the sense locally that people have absolutely no time for being railroaded or blackmailed. Quite a lot of ill-feeling about the undue haste, and the lack of strategic planning with all of the other mobility schemes in the works for the wider area. And also the lack of a Local Area Plan for Dun Laoghaire itself, when Dundrum village and environs just had its second or third one enacted.

maisie45

I attended the meeting jn the Royal Marine lastnight, the room was packed, chairs still being put out as the meeting was starting snd many left standing.

I would think between seven and eight hundred were there and the atmosphere was tense.

The overwhelming majority were against the proposal, the councillor who said she was definitely voting No got a huge round of applause.

The meeting was organised by local businesses who spoke of their fears, their liveihoods will be affected if this impacts business badly so they should be fully heard.

The most contentious proposal is putting a barrieron Tivoli Road, the residents there pleaded would no one think of the children, the problem is if that road is closed the traffic then moves to Olver Plunkett road so what about the children there

The Tivoli Road residents have obviously been badly impacted by the coastal mobility route but solving their problem means the traffic increases in Monkstown Farm, someone adked has this predictable outcome been assessed and one of the people who organised the meeting said no.

Someone else mentioned the sheer stupidity of removing buses that serve a hospital, this is madness, the population in DL are elderly, the percentage over 65 is very high.

Someone else said the meeting was pretty pointless as submissions are coming in from all over the country, this is organised seemingly by activists on social media.

I have to say I saw one bike parked outside the hotel, a cargo bike so dont think many cycled to it. Cant day for sure though, maybe there is bicycle parking on the hotel grounds and i didnt notice it.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602258#Comment_121602258

Those against it will Always be noisey. Those for it have. Nothing to gain by attending such meetings. It’s not a true reflection of how the area feels

maisie45

How do you get true reflection though if so many people from all over the country are filling in the public consultation survey.

I found the meeting very interesting, there were quite a few councillors there and some said they were open to revisiting the loss of parking in clarinda park. They stated they were getting lots of calls and emails so they know the mood on the ground.

If I was living in Monkstown Farm and thought there was even the remotest chance Tivoli Road will close to traffic I would be selling my house.

There is no way that area can take the displaced traffic.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602350#Comment_121602350

Well on the response they look for your name and addesss.

they can easily confirm this.

however on the unofficial change.org objection there is no such check.

traffic will reduce as more and more people leave their cars at home. We’ve the 2nd slowest traffic in the world. Looks at places like Copenhagen where they built good cycling infrastructure and as a result traffic is light, everyone cycles.

AndrewJRenko

Slightly different report on the Royal Marine meeting;

https://twitter.com/duburbans/status/1745262787847229722?s=20

smackyB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602258#Comment_121602258

Regarding your last point, the hotel has zero cycling parking facilities at the front entrance so no surprise there were few bikes to be seen. There are, however, ample and well-used cycle parking facilities at the library around the corner from the hotel.

maisie45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602496#Comment_121602496

I dont think the Monkstown farm people will buy this.

Everyone was told the coastalmobility route wouldnt cause problems elsewhere but in fact the traffic displaced there went to Tivoli Road.

Then we were told closing Deansgrange Road Northbound wouldnt be much of an issue either and now Newtowpark Ave is congested with cars rat running through Hollypark housing estate ,three schools in there, two more schools on newtownpark avenue and a third in the pipeline.

And Johnstown Road is a nightmare, just awful for the residents.

AndrewJRenko

And another view;

https://twitter.com/jasoncullenfilm/status/1745358429713989867

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603526#Comment_121603526

Newtownpark Ave and other areas mentioned have been congested with traffic for decades, nothing to do with other road closures. On the contrary, I remember being promised that the Newtownpark congestion would dissappear with the opening of the Monkstown by-pass. It didn't dissappear, it got worse, as more traffic was attracted to the area. That was 30 years ago. 😳

The problem and main cause of traffic congestion now, is the massive increase in the volume of traffic and the increase in the size of cars on the road. This increase and the negative impact it has on people's lives is the issue that the Living streets initiative is trying to address.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601811#Comment_121601811

Agree with most of the above Larbre. However I would take issue with the mention of "undue haste ". How long has the lr Georges st pedestrianisation argument been running now?

markpb

”undue haste” is the phrase used by people who haven’t had enough consultations to see everything positive about a plan watered down or removed entirely. It means they haven’t gotten their way yet.

bluezulu49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602279#Comment_121602279

I also attended the meeting last night in the Royal Marine. The noisy crowd were those in favour of the proposal.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603526#Comment_121603526

Who cares if they “buy it” just because you don’t believe I. Something doesn’t make it true.

as for Deansgrange. It’s still a building site, you can’t form an opinion or a judgement till the work is completed

just think how much traffic would go if it was safe for kids to cycle to schools as opposed to getting lifts

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604261#Comment_121604261

That’s because they were in an echo chamber. people who support it had no interest in attending

maisie45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603952#Comment_121603952

Are you living in this area,have you seen the amount of development in the county, how can you keep building apartment blocks and houses and at the same time close off roads that carry huge amounts of traffic.

The problems on Tivoli Road are related to the closure of the coastal road, one suggestion last night was to have a one way cycle lane on this route, restore traffic in both directions snd make Tivoli Road one way too.

Thete are three cycle routes between Seapoint snd Dunlaoghaire, one alongside the Dart, the Coastal mobility route and then another cycle lane on Monkstown Road.This is excessive, there simply isnt enough cyclist demand for this supply.

Dunlaoghaire, Sandycove, Dalkey belong to everyone, not just people wealthy enough to afford to live in the area.

Closing Tivoli Road wont stop anyone driving to Dunlaoghaire to go for a swim or a walk or to get to destinations in Glasthule Dalkey and beyond, google maps will show an alternative route snd that will be down Monkstown Ave and into Monkstown farm.

There are so many elderly people trying to organise themselves to object, the texts are flying around in knitting, bridge and choir groups, they trusted their pharmacy and their doctors surgeries to speak up for them last night and they werent let down.

Why cant proposals like this be trialled temporarily without spending enormous sums of money when there has to be doubt about this plan.

I think there is rage about lots of money being spent on white elephants in ghe town, Myrtle Square with those shipyard like metal structures and a kids slide, whats that about

If trouble kicks off you wont even be able to get a bus or taxi as Georges street is to be pedestrianised.

Then there is the million euro baths that doesnt even have a public bath, just a pile of concrete with yet another cafe, was the final cost of that 23 million euros plus.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121603999#Comment_121603999

24 years. Its been an issue since main street improvement scheme was designed and built in 2000/01.

It has twice been pedestrianised, for different durations, and twice reopened again.

In fact, one of the biggest complaints I hear is about the lack of consistency and strategic planning by the Council on this matter over the last almost 30 years.

They have tinkered and toyed and experimented, and it is the business and community life of the town that suffer as a result.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604421#Comment_121604421

What’s wrong with Myrtle square? It’s a good development.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604421#Comment_121604421

Yes, I am living in the area and I have experienced the increased congestion over the years. But I think you're blaming the wrong thing for this increase.

The population of Ireland has gone from 3.6m in in 1993 to 5.1m in 2023. These people have to be housed somewhere and I would suggest that there are less apartments being built in the area compared to other areas, due to the cost and availability of land. Car ownership has also doubled over the same period and the cars are getting bigger. This is where the congestion is coming from. More people, more cars.

I do agree that the incompetence exhibited by our Council has at times been mind numbing. The "baths" which you mention comes to mind. However the closure of streets, increased cycle lanes and improved public transport are attempts by local authorities to control the amount of private cars on the road, reduce congestion and improve quality of life.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121604421#Comment_121604421

If you're planning for an increased population, the last thing you want is to prioritise the movement of private cars. It's the least efficient way of moving people in a city. The city planners are trying to make it possible to safely and easily cycle around the area because its creates an alternative to driving for people that are able to do that. Without it, all those extra cars will pile into Dublin and the traffic will get worse.

maisie45

we ate talking about Dunlaoghaire and access to it so city planners arent making the decisions.

The biggest increases in alternative use are not cyclists, the use of electric scooters is where the growth will be.

These can be folded up and put on buses so hugely convenient.

Again though its usually younger and poorer people using these and DL needs spenders if the town isnt to deteriorate further.

I think money spent on Mytle Square is a waste of money, it will attract a drinking crowd in the summer and as it gets no sun for most of the fay it wont be a pleasant place.

How much would a few chess boards and chairs cost, we can nail them to the ground.

Its just a big empty square now with one metal slide.

And if i cant cycle down Georges street if its pedestrianised or cant get s bus at Argos after a cinema trip then I will go to stillorgan cinema instead.

Larbre34

I do tend to agree about Myrtle Square actually; what was there from 2021 was a more pleasant environment. In fairness there is a lot of spring planting yet to come, including of the pergola, so let's wait and see.

In fairness I think when Mark above referred to city planners, he meant the professional urban planners that work in all Councils, including DLR. At various times you would hear the profession referred to as Town Planners, City Planners, Urban Planners or Chartered Planners.

Mav11

Does anybody remember a poster on this board a few years ago, called Taxiperson? Have we a second coming???

Glencarraig

I see that DLR have announced road closures for the N11......again!!!....night closures from 19.30 until 5.00am Monday to Friday. Closed both North and Southbound from January 22 until JUNE 30th !!!!!!!!!, reason given is "lane realignment!. Now given that the Southbound side was resurfaced and relined very recently this can only be a massive waste of taxpayers money. I would love to hear their reasons for this.