Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

cricalix

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Unless there is a very good reason why they are putting these limitations in place such as a protected structure, historic sub-sea monument or nature reserve, I can't see any other good reasons.

My understanding is that there was a demonstration using the ship simulators in Cork that showed that the larger vessels would have major trouble with the relatively narrow entrance of the harbour due to windage, to the point they could collide with it.

I also disagree with your statement that these ships are something that could be considered beautiful; they're floating buildings that belch fumes from heavy fuel oil burning engines and generators.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I'm still at a loss as to why they are limiting the size of vessels to 250m. A lot of the worlds iconic cruise liners are essentially being excluded. See the list of ships at the following address:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cruise_ships

A lot of big names operate them including Royal Caribbean International, Costa Cruises, Carnival, Celebrity Cruises and Disney Cruise Line to name but a few.

Unless there is a very good reason why they are putting these limitations in place such as a protected structure, historic sub-sea monument or nature reserve, I can't see any other good reasons.

Then again, with local interest bodies such the Save Our Seafront, People Before Profit and the rest of the left-wing begrudging brigade, we wont have any proper progress. I can even remember reading the leaflet from Richard Boyd Barrett objecting to it where he compares the height of a cruise ship to the height of liberty hall:

https://richardboydbarrett.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/new-plans-leaflet.jpg

The size of these ships is what makes them so impressive, iconic & majestic. So what if they dwarf the harbour. They give the town of Dun Laoghaire international exposure and going by the vacant retail units of the main street, it is not something Dun Laoghaire can afford to loose out on.

Because any larger would seriously impede on the use of the harbour for leisure activity. While it may exclude certain large super cruisers it'll still accomodate the vast majority.

Vic_08

ted1 wrote: »

While it may exclude certain large super cruisers it'll still accomodate the vast majority.

Will it though? The trend is for a small number of dominant companies with larger ships, if in 15 years the majority of ships wanting to call at Dublin/Dun Laoghaire are too large to fit DL then the whole project may quickly become a useless white elephant.

If a berth large enough to accommodate the sort of vessels likely to be used in the next 20-30 years is not viable then the only realistic alternative may be no cruise berth in DL and let Dublin handle them.

DL will hardly be the first port to be outgrown by shipping. It is pretty clear their poor handling of Stena has killed the ferry business for good and there is more than a hint of desperation in this plan to rescue the lost revenue from the cruise business.

coylemj

Vic_08 wrote: »

Will it though? The trend is for a small number of dominant companies with larger ships, if in 15 years the majority of ships wanting to call at Dublin/Dun Laoghaire are too large to fit DL then the whole project may quickly become a useless white elephant.

I disagree with the underlying point of your post which is that people going on cruises will find themselves on bigger and bigger ships whether they like it or not and those ships won't be able to fit into DL harbour. I believe that cruise lines in this part of the world will continue to offer a range of ship sizes because a lot of people prefer to go on cruises on ships below a certain size because they don't like travelling on aircraft carriers with >3,000 passengers.

There's definitely a tipping point of about 2,500 passengers above which the overall ambience changes and you feel like a sardine in a factory rather than a guest in a hotel.

patrickbrophy18

ted1 wrote: »

Because any larger would seriously impede on the use of the harbour for leisure activity.

How?

• Will it block people from walking up and down the pier (I think that these make up the bulk of harbour users/marine based patrons)?
• I think many private boat owners can make their way around large vessels especially when the majority of those in the moorings are equipped with a motor as well as sails.
• Having been a member of the National Yacht Club, the bulk of sailing activities occurred in the area between the Carlisle Pier and the East Pier or out in the Irish Sea. Even when the HSS was making its way in, we could make our way around.
• Then there are the other clubs such as the Royal St. George, Royal Irish and the Irish National Sailing School. Aside from their respective members, I would say the patrons of all public facilities around the Dun Laoghaire coast far outweigh the members of all four of the clubs.
• The gap between the East and West Piers is larger than it looks at nearly 220 meters which is nearly 4 times the width of the largest beams (around 55-60 meters).

ted1 wrote: »

While it may exclude certain large super cruisers it'll still accomodate the vast majority.

There are still many ships out there well above 250 meters in length. Also, the larger the ship, the more passengers and the more passengers, the more visitors.

coylemj

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

There are still many ships out there well above 250 meters in length. Also, the larger the ship, the more passengers and the more passengers, the more visitors.

Disagree completely. The larger the ship, the more you feel that you're in a floating city which has literally everything on board and the less you feel the need to get off, especially with pokey little towns like Dun Laoghaire which, let's face it, is just a gateway to Dublin as far as most tourists will be concerned.

Or could someone remind me of the attractions which would entice someone to come off a giant cruise ship to go ashore in DL if not to go straight to the Dart station for a train to the city?

Let the leviathans dock at the north wall for bus trips to the Book of Kells and the Guinness Storehouse, they won't do much for DL except clog up the harbour and the tour buses picking up the passengers for excursions to the city will clog up the local roads.

josip

coylemj wrote: »

Or could someone remind me of the attractions which would entice someone to come off a giant cruise ship to go ashore in DL if not to go straight to the Dart station for a train to the city?

Forty Foot for Joyce, Teddys for a 99, the derelict baths for indigenous fauna.

patrickbrophy18

coylemj wrote: »

Disagree completely. The larger the ship, the more you feel that you're in a floating city which has literally everything on board and the less you feel the need to get off, especially with pokey little towns like Dun Laoghaire which, let's face it, is just a gateway to Dublin as far as most tourists will be concerned.

With the use of words like "pokey", that is downplaying what Dun Laoghaire has to offer. Plus, a vessels docks so people can get off. I'd imagine that even the biggest cruise ships in the world can be a little claustrophobic after months at sea.

coylemj wrote: »

Or could someone remind me of the attractions which would entice someone to come off a giant cruise ship to go ashore in DL if not to go straight to the Dart station for a train to the city?

Well, Dun Laoghaire has the peoples park and a lot of other leisure amenities like the two piers, two hotels, a wide variety of shops, cafes and restaurants. Not to mention the Lexicon which is something of an engineering feat unto itself. Then, there is nearby Dalkey with its array of pubs, Monkstown with its quaint boutiques and restaurants and Blackrock to name but a few.

coylemj wrote: »

Let the leviathans dock at the north wall for bus trips to the Book of Kells and the Guinness Storehouse, they won't do much for DL except clog up the harbour and the tour buses picking up the passengers for excursions to the city will clog up the local roads.

By that, I take it that you mean very large vessels. You see, this is a very Irish thing to say. In other words, a lot of Irish people like to put a cap on the size of projects or impose limitations on scale of buildings or in this case, cruise liners. In any case, this philosophy is unfortunately, taken seriously by local administrative authorities such as ABP and DLRCOCO which places needless restrictions on the aspiration and ambitions of people who actually want to make a difference in this country.

ScouseMouse

Just back from a night out in Dun Laoghaire. Its a friday night. So. A group wanted a christmas party night in Dun Laoghaire and we stayed local.

We had about 15 people and booked a large table in Blueginger cafe which is the old Easons building. They were doing an all you can eat christmas menu at 19.95 for 3 courses. Turned out excellent!

A reasonable range, with special arrangements for a coeliac, and you could order upto 2 starters at a time PER PERSON. Once that was eaten, you could order two more, and so on. Lets just say we got our moneys worth. It is an interesting concept and worked out very well for our group. Even after the hungry horse who ate 6 - yes SIX starters of chicken wings, then his main and dessert.

The portions were ok, but once you finished them, you could reorder again. Service was a bit ropey, but it worked.

Afterwards we hit Wetherspoons and stayed till we got kicked out at 1am. Two pitchers of cocktails for 15 euro. Was a very reasonable night out, parking was easy and the town was quite quiet.

There is good value around if you look for it, but the town itself looks crap.

coylemj

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

With the use of words like "pokey", that is downplaying what Dun Laoghaire has to offer. Plus, a vessels docks so people can get off. I'd imagine that even the biggest cruise ships in the world can be a little claustrophobic after months at sea.

The vast majority of cruises last 7 or 10 days.

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Well, Dun Laoghaire has the peoples park and a lot of other leisure amenities like the two piers, two hotels, a wide variety of shops, cafes and restaurants.

You could make Longford sound interesting. Calling the west and east piers 'leisure amenities' is completely barmy. They're piers FFS and nothing else, what else do you expect to find in a port? Two hotels and a wide range of shops and cafes - average town anywhere in the world.

Chinasea

ScouseMouse wrote: »

It is an interesting concept and worked out very well for our group. Even after the hungry horse who ate 6 - yes SIX starters of chicken wings, then his main and dessert.
.

"Hungry" = Glutonous. Hope said horse contributed to a tip.

SimonMaher

coylemj wrote: »

The vast majority of cruises last 7 or 10 days.



You could make Longford sound interesting. Calling the west and east piers 'leisure amenities' is completely barmy. They're piers FFS and nothing else, what else do you expect to find in a port? Two hotels and a wide range of shops and cafes - average town anywhere in the world.

It's true - a million people a year walk the East pier because they're ship enthusiasts. Jaysus. Of course the harbour (with its piers and 200 acres of enclosed water) is a leisure amenity - a very good one at that. It's nonsense to suggest otherwise. It's also a working harbour too, no reason at all why the leisure and commercial worlds can't exist together. I think the 250m cruise berth is a decent compromise, the "boutique" cruising segment is a growing one and I will be there to welcome the visitors when it's built.

As locals we tend to talk Dun Laoghaire down a lot. It's a very strange view. Any time I bring visitors to the town, they enjoy the views, they enjoy wandering about, they enjoy the food and drink offerings and they leave happy rather than us locals who go home to give out about it on the internet!

Simon

coylemj

SimonMaher wrote: »

It's true - a million people a year walk the East pier because they're ship enthusiasts. Jaysus. Of course the harbour (with its piers and 200 acres of enclosed water) is a leisure amenity - a very good one at that. It's nonsense to suggest otherwise.

The piers are not a 'leisure amenity' as far as cruise ship passengers are concerned and that is what I and the poster I responded to were talking about.

Yes, I walk the two piers several times every year and they are a great local amenity but for a cruise ship passenger they are simply piers where ships tie up, same as you get in any port which is the point I was making.

markpb

coylemj wrote:

Yes, I walk the two piers several times every year and they are a great local amenity but for a cruise ship passenger they are simply piers where ships tie up, same as you get in any port which is the point I was making.

I have to agree with this. I go to Dun Laoghaire regularly to enjoy the walk along the pier walls and I appreciate having it on my doorstep. However, when I'm on a cruise, I walk along them to get to the other end. They're definitely an amenity for locals but not for cruise tourists.

I do love just strolling through small port towns and having a casual lunch beside the sea but Dun Laoghaire had somehow managed to mostly turn it's back on the sea. It's still a nice town town I think it's missed an opportunity to be something more for tourists.

And don't get me started on the part that suggested the library was a tourist attraction...

SimonMaher

coylemj wrote: »

The piers are not a 'leisure amenity' as far as cruise ship passengers are concerned and that is what I and the poster I responded to were talking about.

Yes, I walk the two piers several times every year and they are a great local amenity but for a cruise ship passenger they are simply piers where ships tie up, same as you get in any port which is the point I was making.

Hang on, so the piers are a valuable leisure amenity to locals but not to cruise passengers who look past the beauty and vibe of the space and only see them as concrete walls to tie boats to? That's some leap!

I spoke to passengers on Wind Surf in July who would definitely disagree with that - they were charmed with the place, the welcome and were delighted to be spending a couple of hours after their half-day tour wandering around the harbour area. At their leisure no less!

I agree with the points about the town needing to make more of itself to attract tourists and in fairness, the strip from the railway station down to Newtownsmith is now much nicer and more welcoming. An indoor tourist attraction on a larger scale would be most welcome and mercifully the retail offering of the town is now improving too.

Simon

BoltzmannBrain

A judicial review is being sought over An Bord Pleanála’s decision to grant permission for a cruise berth at Dun Laoghaire harbour.

http://coastmonkey.ie/dun-laoghaire-cruise-berth/

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errlloyd

Ugh, I keep parking on the Carlisle pier and getting the dart to work, but I start work before 9 and you can't pay for parking on the app till 9. Today I didn't get out of a meeting till 11 and I'm worried the car is clamped.

Does anyone know how I

A: check if the car is clamped so I can get it removed before I head home (parking tag website is down).

B: buy that one week ticket for the other car park, less chances for me to **** that up.

Fratton Fred

BoltzmannBrain wrote: »

A judicial review is being sought over An Bord Pleanála’s decision to grant permission for a cruise berth at Dun Laoghaire harbour.

http://coastmonkey.ie/dun-laoghaire-cruise-berth/

I was listening to our savior, Richard Boyd Barrett on the news yesterday. Does he realise that these are cruise ships coming in, not nuclear submarines or oil tankers?

I agree with him that the harbour should open up more to the general public and I think a good maritime museum and/or an aquarium would be great, but the harbour is huge, there is room for cruise ships and more public amenities

errlloyd

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I agree with him that the harbour should open up more to the general public and I think a good maritime museum

I really like the museum as it is, but I guess more could be done with it.

Fratton Fred

errlloyd wrote: »

Ugh, I keep parking on the Carlisle pier and getting the dart to work, but I start work before 9 and you can't pay for parking on the app till 9. Today I didn't get out of a meeting till 11 and I'm worried the car is clamped.

Does anyone know how I

A: check if the car is clamped so I can get it removed before I head home (parking tag website is down).

B: buy that one week ticket for the other car park, less chances for me to **** that up.

I can't help I'm afraid, but can you enter that car park from both directions? I've noticed what looks like people using it to avoid the traffic lights at Marine Road.

errlloyd wrote: »

I really like the museum as it is, but I guess more could be done with it.

I do as well. If it were on the Carlisle pier though, you could have a couple of historic ships alongside as part of the exhibition. Maybe even a famine ship, or replica of the Asgard.

errlloyd

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I do as well. If it were on the Carlisle pier though, you could have a couple of historic ships alongside as part of the exhibition. Maybe even a famine ship, or replica of the Asgard.

You know I never thought of the Carlisle pier as a potential location for the Maritime museum. That would be really quite cool. Has there been any weight put behind that suggestion before?

Fratton Fred

errlloyd wrote: »

You know I never thought of the Carlisle pier as a potential location for the Maritime museum. That would be really quite cool. Has there been any weight put behind that suggestion before?

I don't think so. I've heard talk of a Diaspora/emmigration museum and the possibility of combining this with a maritime museum, but I don't know if it has gone beyond just talk.

markpb

errlloyd wrote: »

Ugh, I keep parking on the Carlisle pier and getting the dart to work, but I start work before 9 and you can't pay for parking on the app till 9. Today I didn't get out of a meeting till 11 and I'm worried the car is clamped.

Not much help to you today but if you park by SMS, you can park in the morning and the ticket will be issued starting at 9am.

To pay for parking by SMS, simply text your details in the format PARK ZONE MINUTES REG to 53311. Zone information can be found on local signage and the time required should be sent in minutes e.g. Park Yellow 60 121D1234 gives you 60 minutes parking time in the yellow zone.

ParkingTag.ie

Gareth Keenan

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I don't think so. I've heard talk of a Diaspora/emmigration museum and the possibility of combining this with a maritime museum, but I don't know if it has gone beyond just talk.

oddly enough, it looks like the very good Epic Ireland emigration exhibition that's currently in CHQ in town is going to be displaced by a microbrewery. DL CC/BID should jump on this opportunity. Stick it in the Stena building while the Carlisle is developed.

I lived abroad for a few years and might have missed it, but wasn't there an architecture competition for proposals for the Carlisle at some point? Did HMS RBB torpedo those as well?

errlloyd

markpb wrote: »

Not much help to you today but if you park by SMS, you can park in the morning and the ticket will be issued starting at 9am.

ParkingTag.ie

That is sort of helpful.

Unfortunately this morning I tried to pay for a week in the metre to avoid this problem and it rejected my debit card! I can't seem to pay the weekly rate through the app so that is 8e down the drain.

It's a bit of a first world problem, I'll admit that.

Update: Can't pay for weekly parking through any app. So I'll have to just pay for the day.

trishasaffron

Does anyone know where exactly this terrible assault happened?
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-of-the-girls-had-a-bust-lip-broken-teeth-and-a-bloody-mouth-three-young-female-tourists-attacked-on-way-to-airport-35359349.html

I was planning to walk to a 5am aircoach bus stop this weekend on my own but will think again after seeing this.

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This post has been deleted.

uch

trishasaffron wrote: »

Does anyone know where exactly this terrible assault happened?
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-of-the-girls-had-a-bust-lip-broken-teeth-and-a-bloody-mouth-three-young-female-tourists-attacked-on-way-to-airport-35359349.html

I was planning to walk to a 5am aircoach bus stop this weekend on my own but will think again after seeing this.

Coming from Fitzpatricks Hotel to Dalkey for Aircoach I believe

errlloyd

uch wrote: »

Coming from Fitzpatricks Hotel to Dalkey for Aircoach I believe

The opposite I believe, they were walking to Fitzpatricks hotel (where there is an aircoach pick up)