Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Seaswimmer

Interesting Zoom meeting with Cormac Devlin TD and some DLR councillors and members of the executive concerning the 3 new cycling routes. About 300 people joined. Sound quality wasn't great from some speakers but by and large it was informative. Safe to say all the questions were from people worried about how it would affect them and their roads/estates with some concerns from local businesses.
The one way system on Deansgrange Road took up most of the discussion with a lot of mention for Avoca Avenue (or road) in Blackrock which I am not familiar with.
It was mentioned twice by the council director that Deansgrange road one way system forms a critical part of 2 of the 3 routes with little alternatives. My take away from it is that regardless of what submissions are made it will go ahead on a trial basis..

Living Off The Splash

Seaswimmer wrote: »

The one way system on Deansgrange Road took up most of the discussion with a lot of mention for Avoca Avenue (or road) in Blackrock which I am not familiar with.

I am familiar with the Avoca Road/Avoca Park situation. I would be against this big time. The footpaths are already safe so I am not sure why they are even being discussed.

Cyrus

i used to live there, whats the proposal exactly?

Glencarraig

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

I am familiar with the Avoca Road/Avoca Park situation. I would be against this big time. The footpaths are already safe so I am not sure why they are even being discussed.

Its an offence to cycle on a footpath.

Living Off The Splash

Glencarraig wrote: »

Its an offence to cycle on a footpath.

The new initiative is called New Safe Walking and Cycling Routes.

What is wrong with our existing footpaths? Are they not safe?

Cyrus

Glencarraig wrote: »

Its an offence to cycle on a footpath.

not that you'd notice in reality.

Glencarraig

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

The new initiative is called New Safe Walking and Cycling Routes.

What is wrong with our existing footpaths? Are they not safe?

At the risk of repeating myself...........it's an offence to cycle on a footpath so therefore the Council need to provide cyclepaths.

coylemj

Seaswimmer wrote: »

It was mentioned twice by the council director that Deansgrange road one way system forms a critical part of 2 of the 3 routes with little alternatives. My take away from it is that regardless of what submissions are made it will go ahead on a trial basis..

So like the coast road in Sandymount, the 'public consultation' is a complete sham. 'We'd like to hear from you but we're going to do it anyway'.

If Deansgrange Road is made one-way north to south, it means that all of the cars which currently come up Clonkeen Road to head straight (at the Grange pub) towards Blackrock and all of the cars coming down from Foxrock Church which would turn left will all have to go up the hill to Baker's Corner, then turn left towards Blackrock.

There's usually a tailback going up the hill to Baker's Corner from Deansgrange Cross, this proposal is going to hugely increase the volume of traffic going up the hill, to the point where it will become a major bottleneck. In turn this will mean that people coming up Clonkeen Road from the N11 won't be able to turn right and Clonkeen Road will quickly backup because there's only one lane before you get to Lidl.

AndrewJRenko

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

The new initiative is called New Safe Walking and Cycling Routes.

What is wrong with our existing footpaths? Are they not safe?

What do you think?
https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1318491280607973377

coylemj wrote: »

So like the coast road in Sandymount, the 'public consultation' is a complete sham. 'We'd like to hear from you but we're going to do it anyway'.

If Deansgrange Road is made one-way north to south, it means that all of the cars which currently come up Clonkeen Road to head straight (at the Grange pub) towards Blackrock and all of the cars coming down from Foxrock Church which would turn left will all have to go up the hill to Baker's Corner, then turn left towards Blackrock.

There's usually a tailback going up the hill to Baker's Corner from Deansgrange Cross, this proposal is going to hugely increase the volume of traffic going up the hill, to the point where it will become a major bottleneck. In turn this will mean that people coming up Clonkeen Road from the N11 won't be able to turn right and Clonkeen Road will quickly backup because there's only one lane before you get to Lidl.

https://twitter.com/giulio_mattioli/status/1317802178279542784

ted1

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

The new initiative is called New Safe Walking and Cycling Routes.

What is wrong with our existing footpaths? Are they not safe?

They are often to narrow and don’t allow social distancing. They are often blocked by cars, covered in Dog ****e, broken by tree roots. Unlit

Larbre34

Yeah thats all beautiful and worthy, but to my mind, absolutely nothing should, at this moment, disrupt the flow of customer traffic to our local businesses, anywhere in the County.

Thats what I'll be submitting to the public consultation and more importantly that's what I and other businesses in the County will be pushing strongly to the County Councillors directly.

All other considerations are secondary.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yeah thats all beautiful and worthy, but to my mind, absolutely nothing should, at this moment, disrupt the flow of customer traffic to our local businesses, anywhere in the County.

Thats what I'll be submitting to the public consultation and more importantly that's what I and other businesses in the County will be pushing strongly to the County Councillors directly.

All other considerations are secondary.

You do realise that not all customers are in cars, right?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-more-in-londons-shops-than-motorists/

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yeah thats all beautiful and worthy, but to my mind, absolutely nothing should, at this moment, disrupt the flow of customer traffic to our local businesses, anywhere in the County.

Thats what I'll be submitting to the public consultation and more importantly that's what I and other businesses in the County will be pushing strongly to the County Councillors directly.

All other considerations are secondary.

Less traffic encourages people to shop. Look at glasthule village. It’s taking off since the changes.
Grafton street and Henry street are the two busiest streets in Dublin. Guess what no traffic.

Cyrus

ted1 wrote: »

They are often to narrow and don’t allow social distancing. They are often blocked by cars, covered in Dog ****e, broken by tree roots. Unlit

Social distancing is a new construct and a temporary one, and to be honest unless people are standing around on a footpath im not quite sure why everyone sees the need to step out onto a road either in front of a bike or a car to keep 2m from a person walking the opposite way given your chance of injury doing this is probably 1000 times higher than the chance of you contracting covid in that 5 second pass.

hanging is too good for people who dont clean up after dogs on paths.

Cyrus

ted1 wrote: »

Less traffic encourages people to shop. Look at glasthule village. It’s taking off since the changes.
Grafton street and Henry street are the two busiest streets in Dublin. Guess what no traffic.

is there any actual evidence that glasthule is any busier than it was? i dont find it so, plenty of people have to queue outside shops but thats because so few are allowed in.

Larbre34

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You do realise that not all customers are in cars, right?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-more-in-londons-shops-than-motorists/

Of course. But not ones that can carry significant amounts, or that care to shop in winter weather with public transport down to 25% as it now is.

Besides, carrying out a trial period for anything like this in abnormal traffic and economic conditions is false data. This pandemic won't last forever, neither will benign weather. I would concede to a limited trial of these significant measures in Winter 2021, providing all other variables have returned to a reliably typical level.

coylemj

Larbre34 wrote: »

Besides, carrying out a trial period for anything like this in abnormal traffic and economic conditions is false data. This pandemic won't last forever, neither will benign weather.

+1 but ironically, the reduction in traffic because of Covid is being used by Dublin City Council to justfy the Sandymount coast road 'experiment'.

When residents pointed out that traffic on certain streets would increase because of diverted traffic, their concerns were brushed aside on the basis that in the worst case, it would only bring traffic on those streets back to pre-Covid levels

ted1

coylemj wrote: »

+1 but ironically, the reduction in traffic because of Covid is being used by Dublin City Council to justfy the Sandymount coast road 'experiment'.

When residents pointed out that traffic on certain streets would increase because of diverted traffic, their concerns were brushed aside on the basis that in the worst case, it would only bring traffic on those streets back to pre-Covid levels

That’s because residents haven’t looked at studies that funds traffic disappears prior move to bikes or alternate methods of travel.

Larbre34

ted1 wrote: »

That’s because residents haven’t looked at studies that funds traffic disappears prior move to bikes or alternate methods of travel.

I would forgive those Sandymount residents any day for not agreeing to become the guinea pigs in another Owen Keegan vanity project. There is absolutely no evidence of that migration in a Dublin setting with crap public transport and in winter weather with normal levels of public activity and demand. Any "trial" taking place around this time offers nothing but false data. For the record, I don't think that Strand Road trial will ever take place, at least not with the cycle route affecting current traffic lanes.

Residents and businesses in DLR should feel exactly the same. Yes there is absolute justification for the street works that have taken place in Glasthule, Blackrock and elsewhere, but thats a very different prospect than playing roulette with main roads and whole neighbourhoods as a consequence.

Living Off The Splash

Glencarraig wrote: »

At the risk of repeating myself...........it's an offence to cycle on a footpath so therefore the Council need to provide cyclepaths.

You keep missing my point.

This initiative is ONLY about cyclists. That's my point. Why are they even including walking in their plan? The walking bit was just to distract from the real reason.

Does anyone know if the Council will be providing seating and litter bins along the walking routes?

Living Off The Splash

ted1 wrote: »

They are often to narrow and don’t allow social distancing. They are often blocked by cars, covered in Dog ****e, broken by tree roots. Unlit

I have not seen any improvements to the footpaths under the new safer footpath initiative.

There are existing laws to deal with cars that park on footpaths.

Have they employed extra people to clean the dog dirt from the existing footpaths or the new footpaths? Oh! Hang on a minute, there aren't any new footpaths.

Have they plans to cut down trees, to remove their roots under the new plan?

There are already good safe footpaths all the way from Blackrock to Dun Laoghaire. In fact there are TWO of them, on both sides of the road. What improvements need to be made to these, to make them safer?

The Safe Walking is only a distraction.

strandroad

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

I have not seen any improvements to the footpaths under the new safer footpath initiative.

Footpaths will be substantially widened in Loughlistown Park for example.

Living Off The Splash

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2458494,-6.128838,3a,75y,116.79h,85.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWGmgqOmcppZx8BBSoNT7ag!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

For what reason? Are these not just the normal improvements that would normally have happened anyway?

strandroad

Not here, in Loughlinstown "linear park" from Achill Road to Wyatville road. Narrow paths will be widened to facilitate socially distanced walking as well as cycling (no separate cycling provision though).

AndrewJRenko

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Does anyone know if the Council will be providing seating and litter bins along the walking routes?

Like the seating and tables they have provided in Dundrum village?

https://twitter.com/dlrcc/status/1314853256426934272?s=20

Living Off The Splash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Like the seating and tables they have provided in Dundrum village?

https://twitter.com/dlrcc/status/1314853256426934272?s=20

No, not the village. I am talking about the roads leading to the village. There is also some street furniture in Blackrock village. Handy for the coffee shops etc.

I am referring to the safe walking routes between villages?

qb123

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

No, not the village. I am talking about the roads leading to the village. There is also some street furniture in Blackrock village. Handy for the coffee shops etc.

I am referring to the safe walking routes between villages?

As you note above, the walking routes between the towns/villages are mostly adequate, especially between Blackrock and Dalkey. However, the paths in some of the villages are/were too narrow given increased numbers. Paths have/are being widened in Blackrock, Glasthule and Dalkey. Another poster mentioned the work in Loughlinstown.

The biggest current deficiency in infrastructure is for cycling, hence the need to focus on that. It vastly increases the distance that can be covered without a car and that would take too long by foot.

Living Off The Splash

.......but the initiative is called "New Safe Walking and Cycling Routes". Equal billing given to walking and cycling.

However in reality this is about cycling not walking. Maybe it should have been called "New Safe Cycling Routes".

But it is obvious that this would not have appealed/sold to as many people.

As you said "the walking routes between the towns/villages are mostly adequate, especially between Blackrock and Dalkey".

Maybe Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Co. Co. could call it "New Safe Cycling Routes for a handful of people and shaft the motorist again but pretend we are including those who like to walk" initiative.

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news-public-consultation-press-releases/public-engagement-new-safe-walking-and-cycling

qb123

I wouldn't call 20,000 people using the new coastal route a "handful of people"; nor the scores of children now cycling to school on the Carysfort and Newtown Park Avenue cycle lanes. Similarly, it seems to be more than a handful enjoying the redesigned outdoor spaces in Glasthule, Blackrock and Dundrum. But sure, let's make it all about the hard pressed motorist who already occupies most of the public space available.

fixXxer

Not sure if I've embedded that right.

Going by the map. it looks like a cohesive plan. If schools especially can be linked up properly then there could be great results. Once people realize their children won't dissolve in a bit of rain now and then. :pac: