Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Cyrus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Surely not kids playing outdoors? That's horrific, why can't they sit indoors on their Xboxes and iPads getting more and more obese, amiright?


DLR is spending €30 million on the potholes and footpaths this year, while the cost of the cycle lanes mentioned is covered by the NTA. So I'm not quite sure what the basis for the whinging is?



He's entitled to his opinion, but it's a bit rich to be playing the poor mouth about paying the tax from savings when he's sitting on a €1m asset. He can always defer and let the tax be taken from his estate, or he can downsize, or he can rent a room in his large property - lots of options other than whinging about a very small investment in cycle lanes, which generally have a much higher return than other transport infrastructure investments.

Whatever they are spending isn’t enough the roads should be paved with gold around here but they aren’t any better than anywhere else.

Also good to know the cycle brothers are arbiters of who is and isn’t allowed complain about property tax and can also dish out sage advice on estate planning , wonderful resource to have. How do you know the poster isn’t mortgaged to the hilt or how do you know how big the property is?

Living Off The Splash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

He's entitled to his opinion, but it's a bit rich to be playing the poor mouth about paying the tax from savings when he's sitting on a €1m asset. He can always defer and let the tax be taken from his estate, or he can downsize, or he can rent a room in his large property - lots of options other than whinging about a very small investment in cycle lanes, which generally have a much higher return than other transport infrastructure investments.

Do you have a problem with people who live in a house worth €1M? Is this really your bug bear?

How do cycle lanes have a much higher return than other transport investments?

AndrewJRenko

Cyrus wrote: »

Whatever they are spending isn’t enough the roads should be paved with gold around here but they aren’t any better than anywhere else.

How exactly did you work out the 'paved with gold' thing. How many kms of road are they trying to maintain with their €30m spend?

Cyrus wrote: »

Also good to know the cycle brothers are arbiters of who is and isn’t allowed complain about property tax and can also dish out sage advice on estate planning , wonderful resource to have. How do you know the poster isn’t mortgaged to the hilt or how do you know how big the property is?

Do you know many small €1 million properties in DLR area?

Thanks for pointing out the gender imbalance in cycling numbers. That's one of the main reasons why we need more safe cycling facilities, so that less people, especially women, are scared off the road.

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Do you have a problem with people who live in a house worth €1M? Is this really your bug bear?

I have a problem with people who live in a €1m house playing the poor mouth about the lowest property taxes in Europe. That is really my bug bear.

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

How do cycle lanes have a much higher return than other transport investments?

Probably because they don't have to provide space for people to drive around with four empty seats all day long;

From: https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/how-investing-cycling-makes-sense-and-makes-money

Here’s some of the headline statistics in TfL’s guide, starting with the ratio 13:1. That’s the average ‘Benefit Cost Ratio’ (BCR) for walking and cycling projects (UK and non-UK), which means that for every pound spent on walking and cycling, £13 is returned to the economy.

Okay, that’s an average, and the Department for Transport’s (DfT) calculations for different UK cycling and walking schemes variously show returns of between £4 to £19 for every pound spent.

That’s officially ‘very high’, with Government guidance on the evaluation of major projects suggesting that a ‘medium’ value-for-money project will have a BCR of between 1.5:1 and 2:1, and a ‘high’ value-for-money project a BCR of at least 2.1.

Done properly, cycling is therefore one of the most cost-effective transport investments, with motorway upgrades and bypasses estimated to typically have lower BCRs of 3.1:1 and 3.7:1 respectively.

https://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/378na1_en.pdf

Cyrus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How exactly did you work out the 'paved with gold' thing. How many kms of road are they trying to maintain with their €30m spend?

Do you know many small €1 million properties in DLR area?

Thanks for pointing out the gender imbalance in cycling numbers. That's one of the main reasons why we need more safe cycling facilities, so that less people, especially women, are scared off the road.

I have a problem with people who live in a €1m house playing the poor mouth about the lowest property taxes in Europe. That is really my bug bear.

Probably because they don't have to provide space for people to drive around with four empty seats all day long;

From: https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/how-investing-cycling-makes-sense-and-makes-money


https://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/378na1_en.pdf

Women are scared , great to have strong men like you to show them how, it’s like the 1950s in here !

There are plenty of small 1m properties around , of course it depends on what your definition of large and small is but suggesting someone gets a lodger without understanding who is in the house and how big it is just silly .

And the roads are bad, I was only dalkey avenue and Killiney hill road today both littered with pot holes, given the value of the houses along those roads and the property and income and every other kind of tax they pay those roads should be better.

Finally we pay low property taxes but income tax is too high so rest assured someone living in a million euro house is most likely getting hammered somewhere along the way, hope that makes you feel better.

Living Off The Splash

ted1 wrote: »

And providing social housing seems like a huge waste of money as I don’t benefit.

Grow up, you live in a society that has to cater for everyone. Not everyone drives yet they pay taxes for roads

If you are that hard up, sell your 1million + house and move to an area with cheaper taxes.

The motorist pays taxes AND a road tax. In fact they even contributed to the water you drank after your cycle.

As a cyclist how much road tax do you pay? How much do you think you should be contributing? As you said you want to live in a society that caters for everyone.....in order to do that we all have to give our fair share....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/motor-tax-cash-used-to-fund-irish-water-30968852.html

Living Off The Splash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Presumably you have similar views on all the money spent on motorways and roads that some people will use also being a huge waste of money - your money?

That's a million euro property that you're living in, right?

No. As a motorist of 50 years I have paid lots of taxes associated with motoring.

As a cyclist I think that you should start contributing as well.

Watch the whinging when that happens.

AndrewJRenko

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

The motorist pays taxes AND a road tax. In fact they even contributed to the water you drank after your cycle.

As a cyclist how much road tax do you pay? How much do you think you should be contributing? As you said you want to live in a society that caters for everyone.....in order to do that we all have to give our fair share....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/motor-tax-cash-used-to-fund-irish-water-30968852.html

No-one pays road tax in Ireland.

When are motorists going to really start paying their fair share, like paying for all the free storage space they get for storing their private property in the suburbs, and paying for the 1500+ premature deaths each year resulting from poor air quality, with transport emissions being a major cause of these poor air quality?

Living Off The Splash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No-one pays road tax in Ireland.

When are motorists going to really start paying their fair share, like paying for all the free storage space they get for storing their private property in the suburbs, and paying for the 1500+ premature deaths each year resulting from poor air quality, with transport emissions being a major cause of these poor air quality?

Call it what you want but the motorist is paying a lot of taxes to put their car on Irish roads.

http://www.wheelsforwomen.ie/index.php/how-much-tax-does-the-motorist-pay/

What free storage space are you talking about? Maybe we should introduce a driveway tax or private garage tax. This sounds a bit like the window tax of old. Think about it, we could have a Pay and Display machine in all of our driveways?

I notice you skipped over the bit about cyclists paying their fair share to use the roadways. I wonder why?

Certainly with the closure of many roads in the Dun Laoghaire Rathdown area to make way for cyclists there is a backup of cars trying to negotiate around the new obstacles put in place recently. Maybe the Council should be looking at ways to make the traffic flow better rather than making each trip longer for the motorist. It would certainly cut down on emissions.

Living Off The Splash

ted1 wrote: »

If you are that hard up, sell your 1million + house and move to an area with cheaper taxes.

I love it. This debate always draws out those that have a big chip on their shoulder about other people.

Why should I move from a house that I have lived in for the past 25 years?

When I purchased my house back in the 1990's it was not valued at €1m +. There was no property tax payable then, either.

Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council are basing their property tax on 2020 property prices. Why not the original price I paid for my property. Why not the size of my property?

I never said that I couldn't pay my Property Taxes. I only said that I had to dip in to my savings to pay this as I am on a fixed income.

We are also in the middle of Covid-19. Why would they decide to increase property taxes during a pandemic? Lots of people struggling in lots of different ways.

Living Off The Splash

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Probably because they don't have to provide space for people to drive around with four empty seats all day long;

Back in the day, we made great use of the crossbar on our bikes. Good to see that you favour the use of empty spaces to sit. It would certainly also slow you guys down.

Gaspode

Transport forys is always available for chat on bikes v cars

Tea drinker

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Surely not kids playing outdoors? That's horrific, why can't they sit indoors on their Xboxes and iPads getting more and more obese, amiright?
.

Well, no, no one said that... OK maybe in your head *you* heard that. I'm talking about anti social behaviour, not kids playing normally, teenagers leaving drug paraphenalia, pissing in the halls, damaging the the structures, leaving garbage in lifts in halls, leaving dog**** inside, leaving main doors open all night so they can come and go unsupervised and damage the security for other residents.
That's just a selection box and far from a comprehensive list.

It's OK, I know, I'm the bad guy here, I am not paying enough for them, I'm not cleaning up enough of their ****. The other residents can't have afternoon meetings at home etc. But I'm the bad guy. I'm actually an awful person

ted1

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

The motorist pays taxes AND a road tax. In fact they even contributed to the water you drank after your cycle.

As a cyclist how much road tax do you pay? How much do you think you should be contributing? As you said you want to live in a society that caters for everyone.....in order to do that we all have to give our fair share....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/motor-tax-cash-used-to-fund-irish-water-30968852.html

As a cyclists I pay €560 motor tax ( what is this road tax you talk off ) but I generally leave the car parked at on a private drive. As I prefer to cycle. Are you shocked to hear that cyclists may also own a car?

Also road tax doesn’t cover the costs of road. Yes it goes into general taxation but that what happens all taxes.

ted1

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

I love it. This debate always draws out those that have a big chip on their shoulder about other people.
Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council are basing their property tax on 2020 property prices. Why not the original price I paid for my property. Why not the size of my property?

No chip on my shoulder. You had an issue I gave you a solution.

Also you are incorrect on the assessment, it’s based on the 2013 value. It was due to be reassessed but that’s being pushed out another year. You may want to check and ensure you haven’t overpaid.

Cyrus

ted1 wrote: »

No chip on my shoulder. You had an issue I gave you a solution.

.

Sell your house?, the cynic in me thinks it wasn’t genuine advice.

AndrewJRenko

Cyrus wrote: »

Sell your house?, the cynic in me thinks it wasn’t genuine advice.

The cynic in me thinks the advice was just as genuine as the problem it related to.

ted1

Cyrus wrote: »

Sell your house?, the cynic in me thinks it wasn’t genuine advice.

It was genuine. If he had financial issues and was struggling to pay his LPT the sensible thing would be to downsize. Lots of families looking for 3+ bedroom homes that are being occupied by empty nesters who would greatly benefit by freeing up equity and moving into a low energy housing unit that better meets their requirements.
Lots of new developments around Dalkey, Dun Laoighre etc

Living Off The Splash

ted1 wrote: »

As a cyclists I pay €560 motor tax ( what is this road tax you talk off ) but I generally leave the car parked at on a private drive.

No, you are not paying this as a cyclist, you are paying this as a motorist.

Do you think that cyclists should also be paying a similar tax?

Cyrus

ted1 wrote: »

It was genuine. If he had financial issues and was struggling to pay his LPT the sensible thing would be to downsize. Lots of families looking for 3+ bedroom homes that are being occupied by empty nesters who would greatly benefit by freeing up equity and moving into a low energy housing unit that better meets their requirements.
Lots of new developments around Dalkey, Dun Laoighre etc

Where did he say he was struggling to pay it or an empty nester ?

Awaaf

A property tax should be there to raise revenue but also to encourage sensible and efficient use of valuable housing assets. In raising revenue it has a lot of advantages as a tax as it hits those who own a lot of property who may be able to avoid other taxes. As regards efficient use of property it discourages sitting on property and encourages those who struggle to pay to downsize and let families occupy larger houses.

The problem in my view is that this is a stick only approach and many of these people are elderly and struggle to respond effectively to this measure. I feel what is needed is an agency which is focused on aiding elderly people who are asset rich and cash poor to downsize i.e. managing the whole process of offering them viable alternatives until they are happy to sign up and move on.

In fact this agencies remit could be expanded to encourage whole streets with development potential for large scale housing schemes near public transport to be freed up through generous incentives.

JayRoc

TL/DR: Fella lives in a 1million Euro gaff wants us to feel sorry he has to dip into the "savings" to pay his 2-grand property tax 😂

Cyrus

JayRoc wrote: »

TL/DR: Fella lives in a 1million Euro gaff wants us to feel sorry he has to dip into the "savings" to pay his 2grand property tax 😂

That should get the likes rolling in.

Is he not allowed have an opinion or is that just for people before profit and the aaa ?

ted1

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

No, you are not paying this as a cyclist, you are paying this as a motorist.

Do you think that cyclists should also be paying a similar tax?

Like a proportional charge.
Bike+rider =80kg
Car+driver =1500kg

Bike takes up about 6 Sq feet
Car takes up about 90 sq feet

Braking and torque pressure transfer from wheels to road is vastly difference.

Road space giving to cyclists = minimal
Raif space giving to cars in the council area = several thousand

What about a footpath tax, should we charge pedestrians?

I could go. Bit other than begrudgary can you tell me why you think there should be one.

Cyrus

ted1 wrote: »

Like a proportional charge.
Bike+rider =80kg
Car+driver =1500kg

Bike takes up about 6 Sq feet
Car takes up about 90 sq feet

Braking and torque pressure transfer from wheels to road is vastly difference.

Road space giving to cyclists = minimal
Raif space giving to cars in the council area = several thousand

What about a footpath tax, should we charge pedestrians?

I could go. Bit other than begrudgary can you tell me why you think there should be one.

This should give Andrew the chance to do his post on why car tax should be 1.7m or whatever it is

Yeay

JayRoc

Cyrus wrote: »

That should get the likes rolling in.

Is he not allowed have an opinion or is that just for people before profit and the aaa ?

A. Of course he is. He just shouldn't expect people to agree with it.

B. I dunno about that lot. Don't have anything to do with them.

Living Off The Splash

ted1 wrote: »

No chip on my shoulder. You had an issue I gave you a solution.

Also you are incorrect on the assessment, it’s based on the 2013 value. It was due to be reassessed but that’s being pushed out another year. You may want to check and ensure you haven’t overpaid.

If it was based on the 2013 value then my tax demand would not have changed. As I have received a new increased tax demand this week it would appear that they are taking the 2020 value of my house to assess my tax. Or maybe they are not, but just returning to the greasy till, in the middle of a pandemic to increase their coffers.

JayRoc

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

If it was based on the 2013 value then my tax demand would not have changed. As I have received a new increased tax demand this week it would appear that they are taking the 2020 value of my house to assess my tax. Or maybe they are not, but just returning to the greasy till, in the middle of a pandemic to increase their coffers.

Regardless: anyone bleating about having to dip into savings to pay a miniscule tax on what is, relatively speaking, a mansion, is tone deaf at best.


Look around you.

Cyrus

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

If it was based on the 2013 value then my tax demand would not have changed. As I have received a new increased tax demand this week it would appear that they are taking the 2020 value of my house to assess my tax. Or maybe they are not, but just returning to the greasy till, in the middle of a pandemic to increase their coffers.

Dlr up until this year gave a 15 percent reduction on lpt (max allowable I think and was on the basis of their high take) they have now reversed that hence the increase.

Tea drinker

Cyrus wrote: »

This should give Andrew the chance to do his post on why car tax should be 1.7m or whatever it is

Yeay

Is the Government asleep at the wheel over motor tax revenue?
Reform needed to safeguard €6bn income while promoting electric vehicles, economist warns
In a report published on Monday, he concludes the current system based around taxes on fossil fuels is unsustainable, and threatens to eliminate a large part of the current annual revenue base of €6 billion.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/is-the-government-asleep-at-the-wheel-over-motor-tax-revenue-1.4325961?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fis-the-government-asleep-at-the-wheel-over-motor-tax-revenue-1.4325961

Cyrus

JayRoc wrote: »

Regardless: anyone bleating about having to dip into savings to pay a miniscule tax on what is, relatively speaking, a mansion, is tone deaf at best.


Look around you.

Look on MyHome and pick out the 1m mansions in south county Dublin

Either they don’t exist or our definition of mansion doesn’t correlate .