Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Marcusm

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Perhaps, though I find it hard to imagine hogging is a much bigger issue on Saturdays than Sundays, and if you mean a 50c flat fee, then hoggers would be incentivised to get the most value from their payment!

Lots won’t make the effort to make a single payment whether it be 50c per trip or per hour. The absence of a payment simply encourages people to hog. Poor adherence to basic rules is an Irish trait. A good decade of heavy enforcement might disincentivise people.

AndrewJRenko

Tea drinker wrote: »

Putting the paw out for more cash from the hated motorist is a bit rank

It's really the reverse - the privileged motorist is putting the paw out, expecting the State to subsidise their transport choices.

Tea drinker wrote: »

You mean the bike stands?

No, when I referred to privileged, I was referring to the transport mode that costs thousands to acquire and maintain (motorists) not the transport mode that gets people on the road for maybe €100.

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Ah, I’ve found it on the Google Play Store now – DLR website didn’t make it clear there was an actual app to (presumably) do the equivalent of send the info by text. That’s good, though the reviews (for what they’re worth – I know the motivation to post problems is much greater than praise) are impressively negative. Also someone flags the following interesting (if true) consideration “Allows you car to be identified as soon as your time is up and so clampers can cherry pick your car for clamping...” Also apparently a monthly fee, and automatically tops itself from your bank etc.

The app is advertised on signs at every parking place and on every parking meter. But christ, some people are determined to play the victim card at every angle. Wardens can no more 'cherry pick' your vehicle than at present, as they have to be AT your vehicle to ticket it. DLR doesn't have clampers unfortunately. It does have a 15 minute grace period at the end of the ticket expiry though. So it's really fairly hard to get yourself ticketed.

Larbre34 wrote: »

You might see things that way, I don't.

I daresay a show of hands would show a big majority on my side of opinion too. There are more important things to promoting our social interaction and community life than monetising every inch of the public realm.

What's the connection between parking and 'promoting social interaction and community life'? If anything, parking is enabling people who have no community connection to come into the area. Lack of parking is far more encouraging to social interaction and community life.

Larbre34

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If anything, parking is enabling people who have no community connection to come into the area. Lack of parking is far more encouraging to social interaction and community life.

Your inflexible zealotry against private cars is exposed there. That could be the outright daftest thing I've ever read on boards.

Either your family and friends all, to a man, live a few minutes from you, or you have none at all.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

Your inflexible zealotry against private cars is exposed there. That could be the outright daftest thing I've ever read on boards.

Either your family and friends all, to a man, live a few minutes from you, or you have none at all.

In fairness his post was in reply to some crazy statements from yourself.

Larbre34

ted1 wrote: »

In fairness his post was in reply to some crazy statements from yourself.

Sorry Ted, you'd have to walk me through how anything I said about this is, in any way, crazy. I'm genuinely at a loss.

fixXxer

Larbre34 wrote: »

I guess thats one point of view.

Another is that with half the Country on salary life support, its anti-social and anti-Community.

The parking regime in DLR County was originally brought in to tackle commuter parking clogging up business and residential areas, often dangerously.

This meant the hours of operation were matched to the hours of incoming commuter demand, 8am-7pm, Monday to Friday in most places, Monday to Saturday in busier shopping towns to keep spaces turning over.

It seems to me, if the parking regime is now being increasingly used only to raise revenue, that it has exceeded its original raison d'etre, and the local authority and its members need to be asked to justify where traffic management ends and interference in ordinary social and community life begins. Just my opinion.

:pac: :pac:

Every sunny day Dun Laoghaire is swamped with cars to the detriment of the locals "Social and community life". They are parked EVERYWHERE blocking roads, paths and driveways. The price of parking makes not one difference, people will park regardless.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

Sorry Ted, you'd have to walk me through how anything I said about this is, in any way, crazy. I'm genuinely at a loss.

It seems to me, if the parking regime is now being increasingly used only to raise revenue, that it has exceeded its original raison d'etre, and the local authority and its members need to be asked to justify where traffic management ends and interference in ordinary social and community life begins. Just my opinion.

^^^^^^^^
Interference in ordinary social and community life....

That’s just a crazy statement...

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

Your inflexible zealotry against private cars is exposed there. That could be the outright daftest thing I've ever read on boards.

Either your family and friends all, to a man, live a few minutes from you, or you have none at all.

This might come as a bit of a shock to you, but there are other ways to travel to DL and indeed other places than by private car.

Blut2

If you were part of the local community you wouldn't need to drive there in the first place Larbre34. Most of the actual locals in the community where this parking is under discussion are in favour of it. Because the parking is used by people who drive from further afield, who aren't part of the local community, and just fills the area with traffic.

pm1977x

Blut2 wrote: »

If you were part of the local community you wouldn't need to drive there in the first place Larbre34. Most of the actual locals in the community where this parking is under discussion are in favour of it. Because the parking is used by people who drive from further afield, who aren't part of the local community, and just fills the area with traffic.

I live locally, sometimes I walk, sometimes I drive in because the weather is awful or I may want to buy something and stick it in the boot, many of my relatives are from around DL and would use a mix of walking/driving/cycling so I don't think your assertion is correct.



I'm not happy about the extra charges and the confusion around bank holidays but that said on local forums there's endless rants about the cost of on-street parking driving business out of the town, yet if you drive down there most days you'll be hard pushed to find a space without going up side streets or doing a few laps so it seems the majority will just suck it up and pay (myself included).

Glencarraig

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This might come as a bit of a shock to you, but there are other ways to travel to DL and indeed other places than by private car.

Exactly.....like by bike on the magnificent new cycle paths all over the borough.

Seaswimmer

pm1977x wrote: »

I live locally, sometimes I walk, sometimes I drive in because the weather is awful or I may want to buy something and stick it in the boot, many of my relatives are from around DL and would use a mix of walking/driving/cycling so I don't think your assertion is correct.



I'm not happy about the extra charges and the confusion around bank holidays but that said on local forums there's endless rants about the cost of on-street parking driving business out of the town, yet if you drive down there most days you'll be hard pushed to find a space without going up side streets or doing a few laps so it seems the majority will just suck it up and pay (myself included).

I am always fascinated by the cost argument. If I am going to DL for 3 hours and it costs me 6 euro but I am buying something for 300 or 400 euro then it seems irrelevant. However if I am going for a walk and not buying anything then it possibly becomes an issue.
I think you hit the nail on the head though with your point about parking spaces. If cost was really an issue then in theory there should be plenty of parking as people head off to Dundrum/Carrickmines/Cornelscourt to avail of the free parking. The fact that it is hard to find a space in DL means that people are choosing to drive there. Whether they are shopping and spending money or simply walking the pier is much harder to quantify.

ted1

People will whinge about parking costs. Yet queue for teddies it at one if the many coffee shops. Yet parking for an hour is less than half of the price of a coffee.

duploelabs

DLRCC need to decide if they're getting revenue from rates or parking. but it can't be both. Their rate values on George's street are ridiculously overpriced and that's highlighted by the multitude of boarded up retail properties

ted1

duploelabs wrote: »

DLRCC need to decide if they're getting revenue from rates or parking. but it can't be both. Their rate values on George's street are ridiculously overpriced and that's highlighted by the multitude of boarded up retail properties

Nope. You need to Ask Dunnes or Covid about the boarded up units. It’s nothing to do with rates.
I may be wrong but I believe that At the moment rates are frozen

duploelabs

ted1 wrote: »

Nope. You need to Ask Dunnes or Covid about the boarded up units. It’s nothing to do with rates.
I may be wrong but I believe that At the moment rates are frozen

They're frozen because of covid, also the deterioration of georges street due to rates is decades old

Larbre34

You're right about Rates and increasing parking charges/ hours of operation as being a double whammy. However, the Council don't set the rateable valuation, its a national body and not one that is democratically accountable at that.

However the Council can and should consider the overall burden on high street businesses of those factors that count against them, including the Rates burden and the customer deterrent of street parking charges.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

You're right about Rates and increasing parking charges/ hours of operation as being a double whammy. However, the Council don't set the rateable valuation, its a national body and not one that is democratically accountable at that.

However the Council can and should consider the overall burden on high street businesses of those factors that count against them, including the Rates burden and the customer deterrent of street parking charges.

Plenty of shoppers go shopping without cars. Also parking charges discourages people from parking all day and hence helps ensure there is parking for customers that are too reluctant to travel anywhere with the car.

You need me to get your head out of the sand when you think drivers are the only shoppers.

ted1

duploelabs wrote: »

They're frozen because of covid, also the deterioration of georges street due to rates is decades old

For the ones not affected by Covid. Ask Dunnes about the empty units. They’ve plenty.

George’s street lower is booming with lots if new places in the last few years

We moved our shop of George’s street in about 2005 as the footfall wasn’t great and moved to town. That’s long before the extended patching charges and times

odyssey06

Larbre34 wrote: »

You're right about Rates and increasing parking charges/ hours of operation as being a double whammy. However, the Council don't set the rateable valuation, its a national body and not one that is democratically accountable at that.
However the Council can and should consider the overall burden on high street businesses of those factors that count against them, including the Rates burden and the customer deterrent of street parking charges.

In the States they have validated parking ... have a meal in local restaurant and it is covered. Nobody wants people hogging spaces in premium locations unless they are paying for it either in parking fees or indirectly business rates.

nomdeboardie

Awaaf wrote: »

Ok so doc is very clear (if silly) on bank hols. In the Harbour as per Appendix II you can **** right off and must pay regardless every day of the year. In the rest of DLR you get to go free on (randomly) 3 of the 9 BHs i.e. St. Patrick’s Day 17th March, Christmas Day 25th December and St. Stephen’s Day 26th December

Ah, thanks, I was just searching (Ctrl+F) for "bank holiday" - it didn't occur to me that indiviidual hols might be named in the absence of the phrase! :pac:

nomdeboardie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

... The app is advertised on signs at every parking place and on every parking meter. But christ, some people are determined to play the victim card at every angle. Wardens can no more 'cherry pick' your vehicle than at present, as they have to be AT your vehicle to ticket it. DLR doesn't have clampers unfortunately. It does have a 15 minute grace period at the end of the ticket expiry though. So it's really fairly hard to get yourself ticketed. ...

I'll have a look next time I'm there, but was limited to searching online (inc zooming in on Google Street View images) when I was writing. And yes, I tend to whine from all available angles about parking charges :pac: Re the 'cherry picking' hypothesis (not mine): I assume the idea is that the wardens would have access to the database of what's-parked-where-and-for-how-long-paid, so could nip around to ticket at expiry (or expiry-plus-15mins)

Larbre34

ted1 wrote: »

Plenty of shoppers go shopping without cars. Also parking charges discourages people from parking all day and hence helps ensure there is parking for customers that are too reluctant to travel anywhere with the car.

You need me to get your head out of the sand when you think drivers are the only shoppers.

I agree with turning over spaces, but you need to incentivise people to come and use the shops, maybe 2 or 3 hours free then charge thereafter.

Of course drivers are not the only shoppers, but ask Dundrum about the correlation between spending and driving and you'll see why it can't be dismissed.

Blut2

Larbre34 wrote: »

I agree with turning over spaces, but you need to incentivise people to come and use the shops, maybe 2 or 3 hours free then charge thereafter.

Of course drivers are not the only shoppers, but ask Dundrum about the correlation between spending and driving and you'll see why it can't be dismissed.

That would be Dundrum, which charges a minimum 3euro for parking regardless of how long you're popping in for? ie, the complete opposite of free parking?

I would say that rather supports the argument that charging for parking is the best way to go to maximize the use of parking spaces for businesses.

AndrewJRenko

nomdeboardie wrote: »

I'll have a look next time I'm there, but was limited to searching online (inc zooming in on Google Street View images) when I was writing. And yes, I tend to whine from all available angles about parking charges :pac: Re the 'cherry picking' hypothesis (not mine): I assume the idea is that the wardens would have access to the database of what's-parked-where-and-for-how-long-paid, so could nip around to ticket at expiry (or expiry-plus-15mins)

Here's the signs showing the app;

https://goo.gl/maps/8yCqKnQCEG7Msa4L9

https://goo.gl/maps/SrqrQsz7JtdfbN4V7

Yes, I get the 'cherry picking' hypothesis, but seeing as the wardens have to be on the spot to issue a ticket anyway, and they don't have information on the exact location of each vehicle, it doesn't seem to save them a lot of work.

Larbre34

Blut2 wrote: »

That would be Dundrum, which charges a minimum 3euro for parking regardless of how long you're popping in for? ie, the complete opposite of free parking?

I would say that rather supports the argument that charging for parking is the best way to go to maximize the use of parking spaces for businesses.

Yes, but the difference is, you don't get fined 40 quid if you stray over the next hour or whatever, like if you run into someone and go for a cuppa, you just pay an extra quid on departure

There is a really oppressive sense to the enforcement regime in towns like Dun Laoghaire. Its not the principle of paying that people have an objection to, if they are guaranteed a convenient space, it's the feeling that they are pinned down to a time and punitively punished for no good reason.

Its anti social and it reduces impulse shopping.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yes, but the difference is, you don't get fined 40 quid if you stray over the next hour or whatever, like if you run into someone and go for a cuppa, you just pay an extra quid on departure

There is a really oppressive sense to the enforcement regime in towns like Dun Laoghaire. Its not the principle of paying that people have an objection to, if they are guaranteed a convenient space, it's the feeling that they are pinned down to a time and punitively punished for no good reason.

Its anti social and it reduces impulse shopping.

Have they not worked out how to use the app to extend their paid time?

loyatemu

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yes, but the difference is, you don't get fined 40 quid if you stray over the next hour or whatever, like if you run into someone and go for a cuppa, you just pay an extra quid on departure

There is a really oppressive sense to the enforcement regime in towns like Dun Laoghaire. Its not the principle of paying that people have an objection to, if they are guaranteed a convenient space, it's the feeling that they are pinned down to a time and punitively punished for no good reason.

Its anti social and it reduces impulse shopping.

aren't there 2 huge multistorey carparks on George's St, and another 2 at the seafront? So people can park in those if they're concerned about overstaying, just like Dundrum. What percentage of the total parking in DL is on-street pay and display?

"anti-social" "oppressive" "pinned down" "punitive" - it's the old war on motorists innit, the last great oppressed minority.

Blut2

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yes, but the difference is, you don't get fined 40 quid if you stray over the next hour or whatever, like if you run into someone and go for a cuppa, you just pay an extra quid on departure

There is a really oppressive sense to the enforcement regime in towns like Dun Laoghaire. Its not the principle of paying that people have an objection to, if they are guaranteed a convenient space, it's the feeling that they are pinned down to a time and punitively punished for no good reason.

Its anti social and it reduces impulse shopping.

If you're nearby you can easily stroll back to extend the parking. Or, as multiple posers in this thread have pointed out to you, you can just use the app which completely gets rid of this issue.

You can't go around calling it an "oppressive enforcement regime" when your only problem can be solved in 30 seconds by downloading an app. The only thing keeping you from never having to deal with this problem ever again is laziness - its not DLRCC.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yes, but the difference is, you don't get fined 40 quid if you stray over the next hour or whatever, like if you run into someone and go for a cuppa, you just pay an extra quid on departure

There is a really oppressive sense to the enforcement regime in towns like Dun Laoghaire. Its not the principle of paying that people have an objection to, if they are guaranteed a convenient space, it's the feeling that they are pinned down to a time and punitively punished for no good reason.

Its anti social and it reduces impulse shopping.

There's no need to feel pinned down, simply use the app to extend your parking. it really is that simple, or park in the harbour and enjoy the all day parking option.

or alternatively, park in the shopping centres, or one of the car parks where you pay when you leave.