Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Larbre34

ted1 wrote: »

I believe people will adopt and find routes to Bloomfields, hospital and shopping centres

And the mobility impaired who will have to negotiate an extra 600/650 metres from vital services to catch a bus? What do you suggest they adopt? Specifically?

Mav11

Larbre34 wrote: »

And the mobility impaired who will have to negotiate an extra 600/650 metres from vital services to catch a bus? What do you suggest they adopt? Specifically?

Why would the mobility impaired have to adapt? Why would the businesses who you seem to think will be decimated not adapt, if required? Which I doubt.

Why couldn’t the aforementioned Bloomfields and other businesses run a frequent lite transport around the town to facilitate their customers, if needed? I suspect it would run empty most of the time.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

And the mobility impaired who will have to negotiate an extra 600/650 metres from vital services to catch a bus? What do you suggest they adopt? Specifically?

The road will be much safer for families, kids and elderly.

How many mobility Impaired make the journey at daily. And how many come by public transport ?
Surely many get a lift from relatives ?
How many come from Dalkey direction?
I believe there’s a rickshaw being provided to ferry some people.

I’m an engineer we make changes , we see obstacles , we find solutions.

Change is scary. , where people see problems Others see solutions.

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

And we should be playing Russian roulette with local businesses just trying to come back from the precipice because?

It's fine for those whose businesses face directly onto that street and who are involved in hospitality, but what about the side streets on the town who will lose passing and occasional trade? What about the fact that will make two main through routes obstructed and traffic funnelled onto routes less able to take it only to create more congestion and more pollution.

Already hearing serious misgivings from people who are going to lose the buses from the locations they are needed most for older and less mobile people, Dun Laoghaire Shopping Centre, Bloomfields Centre, St Michael's Hospital, St Michael's Church.

You know that passing trade comes in other flavours than "motorist"?

Larbre34

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know that passing trade comes in other flavours than "motorist"?

You're forgetting that same street was reverted from public transport use only to all traffic accesses over a decade ago, precisely because the businesses came together and demonstrated that their trade had dropped so much.

This isn't about what I know or don't know, it's about demonstrable bottom lines and the survival of local trade in an economic crisis.

Larbre34

Mav11 wrote: »

Why couldn’t the aforementioned Bloomfields and other businesses run a frequent lite transport around the town to facilitate their customers, if needed?

I'm pretty sure they'd resent the very suggestion, having just had the very best bus service in Dublin in the 46A diverted away from their door.

Also, what street would you suggest they use?!

Larbre34

I'm hearing great concern about the impact on bus routes.

A number of Councillors have asked to see the Councils report on the matter, which wasn't published, to ascertain the residential location of all those that made submissions.

It also seems that this announcement wasn't meant to be made by the Council today, but that Dublin Bus were informed quite a few days ago and let the cat out of the bag by publishing advance notices of the route diversions online and on their bus stop information panels, forcing the Councils hand. The Councillors are particularly upset by this.

One Councillor of my acquaintance has already had a very upset constituent on to them, saying her husband needs to attend the dressings clinic at St. Michael's daily, and cannot drive due to his injuries (broken greenhouse glass lacerations) so is using the 46A from Abbey Road. His leg injuries give him no hope of walking from Crofton Road or York Road. Said Councillor is furious at being bypassed on this by the executive.

You might say hard cases make bad law, but I can tell you there's a long way to go with this yet.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm hearing great concern about the impact on bus routes.

A number of Councillors have asked to see the Councils report on the matter, which wasn't published, to ascertain the residential location of all those that made submissions.

It also seems that this announcement wasn't meant to be made by the Council today, but that Dublin Bus were informed quite a few days ago and let the cat out of the bag by publishing advance notices of the route diversions online and on their bus stop information panels, forcing the Councils hand. The Councillors are particularly upset by this.

One Councillor of my acquaintance has already had a very upset constituent on to them, saying her husband needs to attend the dressings clinic at St. Michael's daily, and cannot drive due to his injuries (broken greenhouse glass lacerations) so is using the 46A from Abbey Road. His leg injuries give him no hope of walking from Crofton Road or York Road. Said Councillor is furious at being bypassed on this by the executive.

You might say hard cases make bad law, but I can tell you there's a long way to go with this yet.

I’m sure they’ll be a simple solution. E.g A taxi could be provided for those with mobility issues

You really don’t like change do you. You’ve also claimed to have inside information from politicians before. Yet the CMR is still there and DUblin Port never used BREXIT as an excuse to stop the Sandymount cycle path

markpb

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm hearing great concern about the impact on bus routes.

It also seems that this announcement wasn't meant to be made by the Council today … The Councillors are particularly upset by this.

One Councillor of my acquaintance has already had a very upset constituent on to them,

So the “great concern” is some councillors being upset at not getting to break the good news themselves and one woman with an actual problem? I hate to break it to you but this is not how we run cities or countries.

loyatemu

Larbre34 wrote: »

What, right through the traffic junction? How would the buses get out of the harbour in that case? Or any other traffic, like deliveries to all the businesses up the town?

no, obviously not, I meant a similar plaza in front of the station, on the other side of Marine Road (which could be substantially narrowed if there was no longer left-turning traffic at that end).

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

You're forgetting that same street was reverted from public transport use only to all traffic accesses over a decade ago, precisely because the businesses came together and demonstrated that their trade had dropped so much.

This isn't about what I know or don't know, it's about demonstrable bottom lines and the survival of local trade in an economic crisis.

Maybe the traders should get together and tell the retailers on Grafton St(highest rents in Europe) and Henry St what they're missing by not taking cars back in? Maybe they should tell the retailers on Suffolk St that the 20% increase of spending they got after pedestrianisation wasn't real?

ted1

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Maybe the traders should get together and tell the retailers on Grafton St(highest rents in Europe) and Henry St what they're missing by not taking cars back in? Maybe they should tell the retailers on Suffolk St that the 20% increase of spending they got after pedestrianisation wasn't real?

over a decade ago when Dundrum opened and we had a recession, but sure he blames the pedestrianizing....

Larbre34

ted1 wrote: »

I’m sure they’ll be a simple solution. E.g A taxi could be provided for those with mobility issues

Jesus.

Mav11

Larbre34 wrote: »

Jesus.

You're right, ridiculous idea, it would never be used. I'm sure that if your mate with the dodgy leg can hobble up to Kill Ave from Albany Rd, he can hobble to the hospital at the other end.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

Jesus.

What about him?
The HSE have a history of using taxis.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30958878.html?type=amp

Is a simply intern solution

Mav11

ted1 wrote: »

What about him?
The HSE have a history of using taxis.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30958878.html%3ftype=amp

Is a simply intern solution

Could Labre's pal not pay for it himself? If he can afford a glasshouse, then surely he can pay a tenner for a taxi, if he doesn't want to use the bus!

Larbre34

So you're all happy enough to close off the street, on top of opening the new public square, which serves exactly the same purpose, and feck the old and mobility impaired (of which there are many in the area) who actually need the buses to go near where the high demand facilities are, not least the hospital, which is primarily geriatric services?

OK so, I'm clearly in the minority in this forum, so I'll stop talking about it, but it's not the last the Council members are going to be saying on it.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

So you're all happy enough to close off the street, on top of opening the new public square, which serves exactly the same purpose, and feck the old and mobility impaired (of which there are many in the area) who actually need the buses to go near where the high demand facilities are, not least the hospital, which is primarily geriatric services?

OK so, I'm clearly in the minority in this forum, so I'll stop talking about it, but it's not the last the Council members are going to be saying on it.

Removing vehicle access makes it easier for old and young people to get about.

Have you a survey to show the amount of people who use the bus to get there , and how many of them can’t access from the new location

FYI. It’s only 140m and 2 min walk FromCrofton Road to the hospital. They could put a stop there, which is only 1/3 of the distance you were claiming

They could add an entry at that side, or further up but I’m not sure on what access will be like once the car park is developed

qb123

I've mixed feelings on this - though mainly positive ones. I voted in favour of the pedestrian trial as (i) I think pedestrianisation generally creates a more favourable environment to live/work/shop and (ii) it's a trial, so if it works, we keep it, if not, we revert to the previous status quo. I do have sympathy with the argument regarding older / mobility impaired. While often brought up as an issue to block trials such as this when it's actually a red herring, in this case I don't think it is - anyone spending much time out and about in DL (especially during the day) will notice there are a fair few of the affected, and often not in the best of health. The bus stops on Crofton Road are minimum of 5- 10 minute walk for these people (5 minute walk for normal person) up to Bloomfields (and you can't unfortunately go through the hospital. So I think some solution needs to be found to accommodate this. As Ted says though, problems are there to be solved, and I think if this can be done we'll have a better town. Anyway, will be interesting to see how it develops. I'm sure it'll be discussed here the odd time.....

Seaswimmer

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm hearing great concern about the impact on bus routes.

A number of Councillors have asked to see the Councils report on the matter, which wasn't published, to ascertain the residential location of all those that made submissions.

It also seems that this announcement wasn't meant to be made by the Council today, but that Dublin Bus were informed quite a few days ago and let the cat out of the bag by publishing advance notices of the route diversions online and on their bus stop information panels, forcing the Councils hand. The Councillors are particularly upset by this.

One Councillor of my acquaintance has already had a very upset constituent on to them, saying her husband needs to attend the dressings clinic at St. Michael's daily, and cannot drive due to his injuries (broken greenhouse glass lacerations) so is using the 46A from Abbey Road. His leg injuries give him no hope of walking from Crofton Road or York Road. Said Councillor is furious at being bypassed on this by the executive.

You might say hard cases make bad law, but I can tell you there's a long way to go with this yet.

So where does he get off to access the hospital? I can understand going home he only has to cross the road from the hospital but to get there he either has to get off at Crofton road, York Road or Clarence Place or sit on the bus at the terminus for as long as it takes to go again. Assuming it leaves again as a 46A.

Also it is a bit of a walk from Abbey Road to get to Kill Avenue to get the 46A in the first place. The 46A dosent use Abbey road anymore as I am sure you know. From the nearest house on Abbey road to the nearest 46A bus stop is 350 metres. the furthest houses on Abbey Road are almost 700 metres away from the bus stop.

From the bus stop on Clarence Place to the front of the hospital is also 350 metres.

So in conclusion if he can walk to get the bus from Abbey road then he can walk from the nearest stop in Dun Laoghaire to the hospital...

Larbre34

I'll be sure to tell him that.

Burt Renaults

Larbre34 wrote: »

So you're all happy enough to close off the street, on top of opening the new public square, which serves exactly the same purpose, and feck the old and mobility impaired (of which there are many in the area) who actually need the buses to go near where the high demand facilities are, not least the hospital, which is primarily geriatric services?

OK so, I'm clearly in the minority in this forum, so I'll stop talking about it, but it's not the last the Council members are going to be saying on it.

I'm very happy to see the street reclaimed from traffic. These changes offer a perfect opportunity to make further alterations to the bus services. The Dun Laoghaire end of the 63, for example, could be rerouted. Instead of going up York Rd, it could follow its existing route from the Station to Marine Rd and then turn left onto Upper George's St, then right onto Lower Glenageary Rd, continuing on to Upper Glenageary Rd and then straight through to Oliver Plunkett Rd.

With the 63 providing a far better service on Upper Glenageary Rd, the 111 and 59 could then be merged into a single route - Dún Laoghaire to Bride's Glen via Dalkey Village, Barnhill Rd, Avondale Rd, a loop of Killiney Village, then back onto the current 111 route at the Graduate roundabout.

pm1977x

Anyone using the 7B or 46A for commuting into town with the 50% capacity restrictions? If so, how are you finding them in terms of being able to get on in the mornings and at what point are they ''full''?

AndrewJRenko

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'll be sure to tell him that.

Tell him to contact the Bike Hub. I'm sure they'd send up one of the trishaws to get him to and from the hospital.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1405510191546834953

p15574

Why. Why. Why. When any change that impacts motorists is brought up. Do they suddenly get concerned about the elderly, disabled and ambulance access. For the first time in their lives. When what they mean is that they can’t continue to drive their car wherever they want, even if it impacts the elderly, disabled or the traffic blocks ambulances.

Mav11

p15574 wrote: »

Why. Why. Why. When any change that impacts motorists is brought up. Do they suddenly get concerned about the elderly, disabled and ambulance access. For the first time in their lives. When what they mean is that they can’t continue to drive their car wherever they want, even if it impacts the elderly, disabled or the traffic blocks ambulances.

Doesn't anybody ever think about the children? What about the children?

Larbre34

p15574 wrote: »

Why. Why. Why. When any change that impacts motorists is brought up. Do they suddenly get concerned about the elderly, disabled and ambulance access. For the first time in their lives. When what they mean is that they can’t continue to drive their car wherever they want, even if it impacts the elderly, disabled or the traffic blocks ambulances.

I said ages ago that keeping the main street open to buses, taxis, commercials and emergency vehicles would be more than sufficient.

The Councillors and TDs have been inundated about the effect on bus services of this decision since it came out on Thursday.

Larbre34

The full report on the submissions received is on the Council website now.

In terms on the 70% approval, there are a whole heap of box ticking approvers in the list, whereas the 30% disapproval contains detailed submissions, many from businesses in the town, pleading that this not proceed and precise reasons why. I think anyone who is blindly in favour of this experiment would do well to read the report, it's sobering.

I find it hard to understand why the Council is so intent on going against the wishes of local businesses, just at the moment they are trying to return from the worst challenge to their existence in their history.

A wonderful new public plaza is now open adjacent to George's Street, closing the street itself to public transport etc is punitive and redundant.

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

I said ages ago that keeping the main street open to buses, taxis, commercials and emergency vehicles would be more than sufficient.

The Councillors and TDs have been inundated about the effect on bus services of this decision since it came out on Thursday.

No it wouldn’t. It’d be a farce snd dangerous. A half arsed attempt. What a stupid suggestion.
Do you think taxes should be allowed down Grafton street too?

ted1

Larbre34 wrote: »

I find it hard to understand why the Council is so intent on going against the wishes of local businesses, just at the moment they are trying to return from the worst challenge to their existence in their history.

A wonderful new public plaza is now open adjacent to George's Street, closing the street itself to public transport etc is punitive and redundant.

You need to re-educate yourself , pedestrianisation leads to more visitors and boosts business