Boating chit chat thread.

Conchir

Yep, Northside it is, work in Sutton. I'll be instructing in the Bay, hopefully with plenty of sun too! It was amazing last Summer so it'll be hard to beat I think

fergal.b

Stheno wrote: »

40 foot yacht missing in Atlantic

The search was called off after only two days!

Families must be devastated not knowing what's happened.

BREAKING NEWS: US Navy ship has located the Cheeki Rafiki hull, no sign of the 4 missing crew. The cabin was flooded and windows broken. They knocked on the hull and did not get a response. The swimmer going up to the hull was not equipped for a dive to enter the cabin. Still no sign of life raft.
US Coast Guard air search will suspend at midnight, but many ships continuing to search including nearly 40 private yachts. Royal Air Force will continue flying search operations til midnight Saturday. Link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2637724/US-Coast-Guard-hull-Cheeki-Rafiki-yacht.html




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miss no stars

fergal.b wrote: »

BREAKING NEWS: US Navy ship has located the Cheeki Rafiki hull, no sign of the 4 missing crew. The cabin was flooded and windows broken. They knocked on the hull and did not get a response. The swimmer going up to the hull was not equipped for a dive to enter the cabin. Still no sign of life raft.
US Coast Guard air search will suspend at midnight, but many ships continuing to search including nearly 40 private yachts. Royal Air Force will continue flying search operations til midnight Saturday. Link http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2637724/US-Coast-Guard-hull-Cheeki-Rafiki-yacht.html




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WTF?! They finally get some solid lead and go "ah that's us done lads".


EDIT: Actually, that's the most appallingly written article I've seen in a while. Most confusing to read. I think they aren't suspending it given that they've now found the hull?!

Stheno

miss no stars wrote: »

WTF?! They finally get some solid lead and go "ah that's us done lads".


EDIT: Actually, that's the most appallingly written article I've seen in a while. Most confusing to read. I think they aren't suspending it given that they've now found the hull?!

Yes that's how I read it, they were going to suspend if they found nothing, but now that they have it's possible they will carry on searching.

Can't help but feel that it's a somewhat futile search for the sailors at this point though.

God love their families, must be absolute torment to be going through.

miss no stars

Stheno wrote: »

Yes that's how I read it, they were going to suspend if they found nothing, but now that they have it's possible they will carry on searching.

Can't help but feel that it's a somewhat futile search for the sailors at this point though.

God love their families, must be absolute torment to be going through.

If they got to the raft and the raft survived the storm they were in they could easily still be alive... If the raft survived and they got it launched and got into it on time.

Stheno

miss no stars wrote: »

If they got to the raft and the raft survived the storm they were in they could easily still be alive... If the raft survived and they got it launched and got into it on time.

True, that locating the hull hasn't answered as they can't see if the raft was launched.

miss no stars

Mmm once they get a diver in they'll have some idea though. Fingers crossed!

Stheno

miss no stars wrote: »

Mmm once they get a diver in they'll have some idea though. Fingers crossed!

Yeah, hopefully they get a diver in who checks the storage in the cockpit and down below to confirm whether or not the liferaft was deployed.

There's a part of me that desperately hopes they are out there drifting in a life raft, and another part of me that says stop dreaming.

neris

Stheno wrote: »

Tacticians are delicate creatures, to be wrapped in tinfoil and minded.

yeah like main trimmers, drivers and owners. have to be kept dry at all costs

bogwalrus

Sky news reporting the life raft Still intact. Damage clearly visible at bottom of boat and Cabin windows smashed.

Even the boat overturned how hard would it be to still get access to and launch life raft? I am amazed that out of the four sailors not one could launch it.

I think a salvage should be done and an inquiry to see if any faults.

delop

Ive worked in the sailing industry for 5 yrs, many as a skipper , delivered 2 yachts across the atlantic, been in many challenging situations in all classes of yachts....

These sailors were quite experienced. The yacht is a type I would have no hesitation in sailing across the atlantic. One of them owned the yacht, so knew its condition. They entered a race in the caribbean, which probably meant their boat was insured , which meant that the Life Raft was checked and certified along with the other safety equipment. They must have had an EPIRB. They managed to get a MAYDAY out, which means they had a SAT phone, and the incident although may have been sudden , it also means they may have had time to make decisions on disaster recovery.

The weather conditions at the time were storm force. there are 2 techniques that can be employed.
1) Heave to , and get battered , expect to turtle roll from time to time , risking your mast. Its an old technique, but a sound boat should survive. Very uncomfortable for a crew.
2) Go bear poll or storm sail and run with the storm. trail warps out the back of the boat to slow your boat. This is key, if you go too fast you can fall off the top of waves and break the boat.

From the picture I have seen, and the description of the condition of the boat it looks like the keel came off, was the damage to the keel before or after the Mayday, I guess we will hear soon enough.

The Life raft is stored in the transom on the boat, its designed to pop out if the boat sinks, the inflating of the life raft can be done by tugging the painter which is attached to the boat, or a hydrostatic fuse which works when the life raft is submerged. It seems this failed, and the crew could easily release it in calm conditions by hand even if the boat is overturned. None of this happened..

Harnesses: If they were sailing in rough conditions , the crew on deck must have been harnessed to the boat , with other crew below deck resting. There are no reports of any bodies with the hull so , they weren't harnessed or unclipped themselves after the incident, which causes me to suspect they were heaved to, and all in the saloon ...

EPIRB: No reports of this , its also designed to activate independently, some modern ones have txt msg features ...

Im just speculating , but the coastGuard must have more info, sailors are trained to make Mayday calls, so they would have given position , crew number, condition of the boat , weather conditions, and likely action plan by the crew ...

In my opinion , a fault with the boat, serious weather conditions , and possibly a crew that had spend weeks working together racing, might have pushed the boat too hard and then one unlucky thing after another ...

neris

Who the feck was the aul one calling times at the starts in dun laoghaire today? Sounded like shex been plucked from behind the counter in the local chinese

Stheno

neris wrote: »

Who the feck was the aul one calling times at the starts in dun laoghaire today? Sounded like shex been plucked from behind the counter in the local chinese

that's our normal starter whim we listen to week on week. She drives people bats

Stheno

delop wrote: »

Ive worked in the sailing industry for 5 yrs, many as a skipper , delivered 2 yachts across the atlantic, been in many challenging situations in all classes of yachts....

These sailors were quite experienced. The yacht is a type I would have no hesitation in sailing across the atlantic. One of them owned the yacht, so knew its condition. They entered a race in the caribbean, which probably meant their boat was insured , which meant that the Life Raft was checked and certified along with the other safety equipment. They must have had an EPIRB. They managed to get a MAYDAY out, which means they had a SAT phone, and the incident although may have been sudden , it also means they may have had time to make decisions on disaster recovery.

The weather conditions at the time were storm force. there are 2 techniques that can be employed.
1) Heave to , and get battered , expect to turtle roll from time to time , risking your mast. Its an old technique, but a sound boat should survive. Very uncomfortable for a crew.
2) Go bear poll or storm sail and run with the storm. trail warps out the back of the boat to slow your boat. This is key, if you go too fast you can fall off the top of waves and break the boat.

From the picture I have seen, and the description of the condition of the boat it looks like the keel came off, was the damage to the keel before or after the Mayday, I guess we will hear soon enough.

The Life raft is stored in the transom on the boat, its designed to pop out if the boat sinks, the inflating of the life raft can be done by tugging the painter which is attached to the boat, or a hydrostatic fuse which works when the life raft is submerged. It seems this failed, and the crew could easily release it in calm conditions by hand even if the boat is overturned. None of this happened..
..

the crew were in fifty knots and heavy waves, their communicated plan was to divert to the azores

neris

Stheno wrote: »

that's our normal starter whim we listen to week on week. She drives people bats

Week on week? Fair ****s to dbsc for putting up with her. Drove us nuts that we turned vhf off

miss no stars

delop wrote: »

Ive worked in the sailing industry for 5 yrs, many as a skipper , delivered 2 yachts across the atlantic, been in many challenging situations in all classes of yachts....

These sailors were quite experienced. The yacht is a type I would have no hesitation in sailing across the atlantic. One of them owned the yacht, so knew its condition. They entered a race in the caribbean, which probably meant their boat was insured , which meant that the Life Raft was checked and certified along with the other safety equipment. They must have had an EPIRB. They managed to get a MAYDAY out, which means they had a SAT phone, and the incident although may have been sudden , it also means they may have had time to make decisions on disaster recovery.

The weather conditions at the time were storm force. there are 2 techniques that can be employed.
1) Heave to , and get battered , expect to turtle roll from time to time , risking your mast. Its an old technique, but a sound boat should survive. Very uncomfortable for a crew.
2) Go bear poll or storm sail and run with the storm. trail warps out the back of the boat to slow your boat. This is key, if you go too fast you can fall off the top of waves and break the boat.

From the picture I have seen, and the description of the condition of the boat it looks like the keel came off, was the damage to the keel before or after the Mayday, I guess we will hear soon enough.

The Life raft is stored in the transom on the boat, its designed to pop out if the boat sinks, the inflating of the life raft can be done by tugging the painter which is attached to the boat, or a hydrostatic fuse which works when the life raft is submerged. It seems this failed, and the crew could easily release it in calm conditions by hand even if the boat is overturned. None of this happened..

Harnesses: If they were sailing in rough conditions , the crew on deck must have been harnessed to the boat , with other crew below deck resting. There are no reports of any bodies with the hull so , they weren't harnessed or unclipped themselves after the incident, which causes me to suspect they were heaved to, and all in the saloon ...

EPIRB: No reports of this , its also designed to activate independently, some modern ones have txt msg features ...

Im just speculating , but the coastGuard must have more info, sailors are trained to make Mayday calls, so they would have given position , crew number, condition of the boat , weather conditions, and likely action plan by the crew ...

In my opinion , a fault with the boat, serious weather conditions , and possibly a crew that had spend weeks working together racing, might have pushed the boat too hard and then one unlucky thing after another ...

Sounds like they're goners so. Sad.

I think the jury's still out on whether they were heaved to or running before it. There seems to be no evidence (that has been released to the public) for either option. The lack of reported bodies tethered to a strong point could be explained by heaving to and everyone below, but the boat was taking on enough water to send a mayday... Being below would be as, if not more, dangerous than being tied to a strong point above. I'd be running before it and hoping I didn't run out of time before hitting the azores...

But then why nobody found harnessed to the boat? Keel falls off, boat inverts, they unclip and try to swim free? Surface and find no liferaft deployed. Up **** creek, try to swim under and get it? Boat heaves down and knocks them unconscious? Can't get back to the boat???

It's also unclear as to where the raft was stowed. Some are saying it was in the cabin, others saying in the hull, others saying stowed in place. I've done deliveries where (due to owner complacency) we've had to keep the raft just inside the hatch as there wasn't a mounting bracket for it. It wasn't ideal by a long shot and a lot of hmmming was done any time it was squeezed past.

This could be a horrible reminder that not on the transom = not any use to you if you're actually in a situation where you need to use it.

It's hard for rescue crews to find a yacht in foul weather, potentially harder to find a raft... But a lone person? Even close to shore I think chances are slim enough to count as non-existent.

RIP to them.

miss no stars

miss no stars wrote: »

...

But then why nobody found harnessed to the boat?

...

It's also unclear as to where the raft was stowed. Some are saying it was in the cabin, others saying in the hull, others saying stowed in place.

...

This could be a horrible reminder that not on the transom = not any use to you if you're actually in a situation where you need to use it.

...

Just a thought... But none of that adds up. They were 4 very experienced sailors.

Apparently they told USCG they were readying the raft.

They weren't found tethered to the boat. The raft that was found is (I've since read) in an inaccessible part of the cabin.

What if that was a second raft?

Stheno

neris wrote: »

Week on week? Fair ****s to dbsc for putting up with her. Drove us nuts that we turned vhf off

Was it the general screeching combined with the ten second reminders everrising in pitch?

We have to put up with that every Thursday and Saturday, it's like living near a train line, after a few weeks you tune her out. She doesn't even get it right, regularly announces nonsense.

I just take the five minute warning, then check my watch against her screeching to be sure. She is seriously maddening though

miss no stars wrote: »

Sounds like they're goners so. Sad.

I think the jury's still out on whether they were heaved to or running before it. There seems to be no evidence (that has been released to the public) for either option. The lack of reported bodies tethered to a strong point could be explained by heaving to and everyone below, but the boat was taking on enough water to send a mayday... Being below would be as, if not more, dangerous than being tied to a strong point above. I'd be running before it and hoping I didn't run out of time before hitting the azores...

But then why nobody found harnessed to the boat? Keel falls off, boat inverts, they unclip and try to swim free? Surface and find no liferaft deployed. Up **** creek, try to swim under and get it? Boat heaves down and knocks them unconscious? Can't get back to the boat???

It's also unclear as to where the raft was stowed. Some are saying it was in the cabin, others saying in the hull, others saying stowed in place. I've done deliveries where (due to owner complacency) we've had to keep the raft just inside the hatch as there wasn't a mounting bracket for it. It wasn't ideal by a long shot and a lot of hmmming was done any time it was squeezed past.

This could be a horrible reminder that not on the transom = not any use to you if you're actually in a situation where you need to use it.

It's hard for rescue crews to find a yacht in foul weather, potentially harder to find a raft... But a lone person? Even close to shore I think chances are slim enough to count as non-existent.

RIP to them.

RIP to them here too, hopefully the horror they found themselves in did not last long.

miss no stars

Some damage...

WTF happened?

Stheno

miss no stars wrote: »

Some damage...

WTF happened?

Speculation on sailing anarchy is that at some point in the last 2 years the boat was grounded, keel got damaged, but no corrective action was undertaken.

Then the damage became cumulative over time, and potentially reached a point in the wind/seas last week that caused the keel to shear off.

Apparently the keel is only attached by bolts to the boat and there is no counter lever (as I would call it) to help stabilise it

That's my interpretation of the very many very technical posts I have read, all of which suggest this is a build fault in modern small cruising boats that needs to be addressed, along with a requirement for such boats to be inspected prior to doing ocean going trips

miss no stars

Stheno wrote: »

Speculation on sailing anarchy is that at some point in the last 2 years the boat was grounded, keel got damaged, but no corrective action was undertaken.

Then the damage became cumulative over time, and potentially reached a point in the wind/seas last week that caused the keel to shear off.

Apparently the keel is only attached by bolts to the boat and there is no counter lever (as I would call it) to help stabilise it

That's my interpretation of the very many very technical posts I have read, all of which suggest this is a build fault in modern small cruising boats that needs to be addressed, along with a requirement for such boats to be inspected prior to doing ocean going trips

Yeah, but it took an awful lot of stuff with it. Kinda looks like it was dragged across (or something dragged across it - container? Hit by ship?). Hopefully it's salvaged and some answers are found.

Stheno

miss no stars wrote: »

Yeah, but it took an awful lot of stuff with it. Kinda looks like it was dragged across (or something dragged across it - container? Hit by ship?). Hopefully it's salvaged and some answers are found.

That's also the speculation that they hit something.

But if they hit something surely they would have felt it and reported it in their mayday call?

Perhaps they hit something after it?

Hard to know.

Terribly sad for four people to lose their lives

pedroeibar1

When you are pounding in a heavy gale I guess it would be hard to notice hitting a container. It does sound like that, with bolts/ surrounding hull damaged and shearing – although they did earlier say they had no idea about the source of the water ingress. Liferaft – probably was on cabin sole, racing trim, centralize the weight, possible fear of it being washed over and auto-inflating if it was stashed in the cockpit?
Sad story.

bogwalrus

Life raft supposedly stored behind the steering column. Not sure of the nautical term.

spaceHopper

bogwalrus wrote: »

Life raft supposedly stored behind the steering column. Not sure of the nautical term.

Correct according to the owners manual yes I'm a nerd I downloaded it. It's under a seat behind the wheel. Was on a oceanus last September anf it's in the same place, very easy to get at

Stheno

spaceHopper wrote: »

Correct according to the owners manual yes I'm a nerd I downloaded it. It's under a seat behind the wheel. Was on a oceanus last September anf it's in the same place, very easy to get at

50 knots of wind and waves in excess of ten feet, that boat was probably rolling around goodo.

It was the middle of the night two, so two crew below asleep, and two on deck possibly.

And it was a 12 man liferaft, so fairly massive, I'd imagine in the mix of conditions, they were simply and unfortunately overwhelmed with the turn of events, especially if they had a sudden loss of the keel and turtled.

Worst I've ever been out in is about four foot of waves, or 30 knot winds, cant imagine the two combined, let alone what these guys faced into.

Simple fact is no training can prepare you for those sorts of conditions, late at night, with half the crew asleep per watch.

We're doing a delivery to Cork for Cork week, and I'm part of that, and this has made me consider stuff I'd not have before, I know our boat has flares, liferaft, radios, etc, didn't think in the past to know where they are.

Now delivery to Cork is nothing compared to what these guys are doing, but it's raised my awareness about prep and safety

miss no stars

Stheno wrote: »

50 knots of wind and waves in excess of ten feet, that boat was probably rolling around goodo.

It was the middle of the night two, so two crew below asleep, and two on deck possibly.

And it was a 12 man liferaft, so fairly massive, I'd imagine in the mix of conditions, they were simply and unfortunately overwhelmed with the turn of events, especially if they had a sudden loss of the keel and turtled.

Worst I've ever been out in is about four foot of waves, or 30 knot winds, cant imagine the two combined, let alone what these guys faced into.

Simple fact is no training can prepare you for those sorts of conditions, late at night, with half the crew asleep per watch.

We're doing a delivery to Cork for Cork week, and I'm part of that, and this has made me consider stuff I'd not have before, I know our boat has flares, liferaft, radios, etc, didn't think in the past to know where they are.

Now delivery to Cork is nothing compared to what these guys are doing, but it's raised my awareness about prep and safety

Ya reckon? Nobody would be asleep when the boat is taking on water and in those conditions.

PhoenixParker

And surely such experienced sailors would be attached by lifelines if they were on deck?

Stheno

miss no stars wrote: »

Ya reckon? Nobody would be asleep when the boat is taking on water and in those conditions.

Ok, so woken up when it was discovered water was been taken on, and given it's shifts of sleep probably not fully compos mentos?

Stheno

PhoenixParker wrote: »

And surely such experienced sailors would be attached by lifelines if they were on deck?

There's a link further up this thread, of a sailor in hairy conditions who went overboard, due to him needing to retrieve a knife and unclipping himself.

Spent well over an hour in the water iirc