Skeleton remains found in Rathfarnham

Ash.J.Williams

MYOB wrote: »

The mountains are far too big to do a complete check on. A body buried even in a shallow grave a few years ago would be completely undetectable from the air and extremely hard to find from a search.

I wonder how bigger countries would handle a "small" area like wicklow, knowing there are many bodies and clues to a potential serial killer or two there.

KKkitty

Wattle wrote: »

Because they were most likely psychopathic and wouldn't be troubled by feelings of empathy or remorse.

They are the lowest of the low. Can't understand people at all.

handlemaster

Vicar in a tutu wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/philip-cairns-was-killed-to-protect-his-sex-abuser-26245411.html

This should work now!

Thats pretty detailed info there. sad to say but they didnt stop there... hkw many more have suffered since

Ash.J.Williams

MYOB wrote: »

The mountains are far too big to do a complete check on. A body buried even in a shallow grave a few years ago would be completely undetectable from the air and extremely hard to find from a search.

I wonder how bigger countries would handle a "small" area like wicklow, knowing there are many bodies and clues to a potential serial killer or two there. As Steve Hughes says "there are Australians that could mow Ireland.

L1011

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I wonder how bigger countries would handle a "small" area like wicklow, knowing there are many bodies and clues to a potential serial killer or two there. As Steve Hughes says "there are Australians that could mow Ireland.

Probably worse than here - as the Guards have experience in looking for paramilitary victims that other countries don't. Also, its not like Australia has a fantastic record for finding bodies and hence preventing serial killers in the first place - anything but in fact.

Australia has bushland, this is a set of extremely rocky hills.

Spanish Eyes

tayto lover wrote: »

They could/should bring in some of those Cadaver dogs. They are brilliant at locating bodies. Even if they only searched 100 metres each side of forest roads they might locate a body or two.

Well I'll probably be banned now.....

But the M Mc Cann case had cadaver dogs who detected cadaverine presence, but it was disregarded AFAIR.

Maybe because there was neither body nor remains.

I dunno.

strandroad

How they can be so sure as to start throwing a particular name around? Am I correct in thinking that it's just some code speak for "we have found something that tells us it's her but we need to wait to the results to name her"? You know, such as "the men were known to the gardai" (= gangland killing) or "no other enquiries are made with regard to this case" (= a suicide or a domestic).

Allyall

I wonder did the dog in the OP smell something, or had something disturbed it recently, or creepier, if the body was murdered, was the murderer back there checking on it after all these years, and the dog interrupted them.

Twilight Zone Scriptwriters/directors, i'm here for the night if you need help..

Micilin Muc

mhge wrote: »

How they can be so sure as to start throwing a particular name around? Am I correct in thinking that it's just some code speak for "we have found something that tells us it's her but we need to wait to the results to name her"? You know, such as "the men were known to the gardai" (= gangland killing) or "no other enquiries are made with regard to this case" (= a suicide or a domestic).

"Skeletal remains found just 9km where Annie McCarrick was last seen" is the headline on Independent site.

9km is a long way, considering how close Kilakee Mountain is to the suburbs.

downonthefarm

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Jaysus. First person I thought of was Philip Cairns.

omg me too thats so creepy:eek:

handlemaster

Allyall wrote: »

I wonder did the dog in the OP smell something, or had something disturbed it recently, or creepier, if the body was murdered, was the murderer back there checking on it after all these years, and the dog interrupted them.

Twilight Zone Scriptwriters, i'm here for the night..

I think it is seen as murder behaviour to return to the scene of the crime. dont know about the location of the body. any psycologists in here ? or criminalologists?

Spanish Eyes

mhge wrote: »

How they can be so sure as to start throwing a particular name around? Am I correct in thinking that it's just some code speak for "we have found something that tells us it's her but we need to wait to the results to name her"? You know, such as "the men were known to the gardai" (= gangland killing) or "no other enquiries are made with regard to this case" (= a suicide or a domestic).

Well it may be the dying embers of the "silly season" when any news is news.

However, it is a reasonably fair assumption I think, given the logistics.

Allyall

Is this roughly where Annie McCarrick went missing/was last seen, and where the skeletal remains were found today?

http://goo.gl/maps/IlJVQ

As the crow flies, not very far at all..

Spanish Eyes

Allyall wrote: »

Is this roughly where Annie McCarrick went missing/was last seen, and where the skeletal remains were found today?

http://goo.gl/maps/IlJVQ

As the crow flies, not very far at all..

If you have a car, or van, it's no distance. Have driven all over those mountains. Lovely place.

But always wondered about the remoteness, and the proximity to the city aswell. For nefarious activities! It is quite eerie up there, especially the bog roads.

Smashing views though.

ringadingding

To be honest, the police have no interest in finding old bodies, if they're found they're found, but they don't want the media, paperwork, man hours and extra investigations on their plates if they don't need to be there.

Sad times

Merkin

PK vanished closeby to where I went to school, was the same age as my older brother. Have never forgotten his name and firmly believe the theories that have circulated about the circumstances subsequently. I personally would be so relieved if the remains turned out to be his, would be great to nail someone for his disappearance after all this time, poor kid.

Allyall

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If you have a car, or van, it's no distance. Have driven all over those mountains. Lovely place.

But always wondered about the remoteness, and the proximity to the city aswell. For nefarious activities! It is quite eerie up there, especially the bog roads.

Smashing views though.

I've been up around there somewhere, eerie alright. Don't know where exactly it was where i was, we were just driving around randomly. It is lovely, gret views, but as you said, very eerie at the same time.

wil

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thanks for link. That is one weird and very sad story there. I think the family and many others know, or suspect strongly what happened.

But them were the days. Such things didn't happen back then. At all...

was I the only one who read the whole link?
It says someone made a confession in 1996 and they describe in some detail what happened to him, implicating 3 unnamed men, somebody connected to a school, and suspicions that he was dumped in a pond which may now under a retirement home.

Am I going mad or why the hell was this not investigated futher?:eek::eek:

I always thought nobody knew what happened to him, and now I read a whole article pretty much saying exactly what happened:mad:

strandroad

wil wrote: »

was I the only one who read the whole link?
It says someone made a confession in 1996 and they describe in some detail what happened to him, implicating 3 unnamed men, somebody connected to a school, and suspicions that he was dumped in a pond which may now under a retirement home.

Am I going mad or why the hell was this not investigated futher?:eek::eek:

I always thought nobody knew what happened to him, and now I read a whole article pretty much saying exactly what happened:mad:

I understood that the confession was made by someone who died to their spouse - so there's no witness, and no evidence?

Mickey H

handlemaster wrote: »

Thats pretty detailed info there. sad to say but they didnt stop there... hkw many more have suffered since

Too many.

wil

mhge wrote: »

I understood that the confession was made by someone who died to their spouse - so there's no witness, and no evidence?

Well thats where I'd start then. WTF:mad: a death bed confession, thats not something that should be left uninvestigated. ridiculous.

And what about that girl murdered in Glenagery near her home several years ago. I heard people in the area have a good idea of the culprit but someone has provided him an alibi.

Allyall

I thought the partner of an elderly man was the person who told the Gardaí?
She said that he confessed all to her, and when they broke up, she went to the Gardaí?

They dug up/searched both areas she said that he told her he buried him, and found nothing.

They believe he is buried under a Tennis Court or Elderly Home now?

strandroad

wil wrote: »

Well thats where I'd start then. WTF:mad: a death bed confession, thats not something that should be left uninvestigated. ridiculous.

Most likely it has been investigated but they hit the wall, I think I've read it being alluded to in other media.

murria

wil wrote: »

was I the only one who read the whole link?
It says someone made a confession in 1996 and they describe in some detail what happened to him, implicating 3 unnamed men, somebody connected to a school, and suspicions that he was dumped in a pond which may now under a retirement home.

Am I going mad or why the hell was this not investigated futher?:eek::eek:

I always thought nobody knew what happened to him, and now I read a whole article pretty much saying exactly what happened:mad:

Agree wil, I live in the area and this is the first time I have heard that there was a suspect and a confession. As far as I was aware it was always a "missing without a trace" case. This is gross incompetence if its true.

P.Walnuts

wil wrote: »

was I the only one who read the whole link?
It says someone made a confession in 1996 and they describe in some detail what happened to him, implicating 3 unnamed men, somebody connected to a school, and suspicions that he was dumped in a pond which may now under a retirement home.

Am I going mad or why the hell was this not investigated futher?:eek::eek:

I always thought nobody knew what happened to him, and now I read a whole article pretty much saying exactly what happened:mad:

I think you should ring the guards and inform them this should be followed up.

FFS if there was any avenue left to go down do you not think they'd have done it already.

wil

P.Walnuts wrote: »

I think you should ring the guards and inform them this should be followed up.

FFS if there was any avenue left to go down do you not think they'd have done it already.

FFS yourself. As I said, its always been reported nobody had any clue what happened to him, not even speculation, until now!!!

No I don't buy the no avenue crap. These cases have been reviewed many times yet never heard that anyone attempted to follow up on this type of evidence. And a death bed confession has to be some form of evidence.
Why would anyone make that up, what would be the point?

I just dont buy it.

His father must be disgusted as any normal person would, judging by his comment that the same person could have been involved in another reported incident.

Allyall

wil wrote: »

FFS yourself. As I said, its always been reported nobody had any clue what happened to him, not even speculation, until now!!!

That link is over 10 years old.
Was published on 17th November 2002.

P.Walnuts

wil wrote: »

FFS yourself. As I said, its always been reported nobody had any clue what happened to him, not even speculation, until now!!!

No I don't buy the no avenue crap. These cases have been reviewed many times yet never heard that anyone attempted to follow up on this type of evidence. And a death bed confession has to be some form of evidence.
Why would anyone make that up, what would be the point?

I just dont buy it.

His father must be disgusted as any normal person would, judging by his comment that the same person could have been involved in another reported incident.

So you think that this info reached AH but has not reached the Gardai who have spent years on the case?

ceadaoin.

wil wrote: »

FFS yourself. As I said, its always been reported nobody had any clue what happened to him, not even speculation, until now!!!

No I don't buy the no avenue crap. These cases have been reviewed many times yet never heard that anyone attempted to follow up on this type of evidence. And a death bed confession has to be some form of evidence.
Why would anyone make that up, what would be the point?

I just dont buy it.

His father must be disgusted as any normal person would, judging by his comment that the same person could have been involved in another reported incident.

Is that not why they were searching some areas a while ago because of these claims? They found nothing so what else can they do. How is an alleged death bed confession classed as evidence? How do they know this even happened? Sure anyone can make up stuff like that. There have been loads of cases of people confessing to crimes they didnt commit. Without any physical evidence then there is nothing they can do.

Anyway since when do police reveal every detail of an investigation to the public? Doing so could compromise any leads they might have.

Allyall

This is the follow up a year later.
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/tapes-throw-new-light-on-abduction-of-philip-cairns-26230779.html

strandroad

They seem to be pointing the finger quite clearly.

wil

P.Walnuts wrote: »

So you think that this info reached AH but has not reached the Gardai who have spent years on the case?

Are you suggesting incompetence, connections and influence have never played any part in ensuring cases never came to court.

In 2003 relating to third party audio tapes of his teachers from 1994

"Mr Flynn also commented that neither he nor any of the other teaching staff had ever been asked to give a statement to the Gardai"

I wonder is he dead now too.

Miss Mayhem

handlemaster wrote: »

the pelvic bone would be different. I think is wider and flatter. stand to be corrected

Yeah, the female pelvis is U shaped while the men's are V shaped and they can tell by the jaw bones too. I've read most of the Kathy Reich's books.

I'm betting this woman could be another one of Larry Murphy's victims. Hopefully they'll send him back to prison.

strandroad

Eh read between the lines... He was not asked because a dozen of other people have reported it already, most likely. Also, "a Sunday Independent investigation" is likely to mean "a garda told us what they think, but can't prove, has happened" and not some groundbreaking supersleuthing.

Wattle

The remains of two other women were found in the Killakee area in the late 80's early 90's but the killers were never caught. I'm sure they'll be able to determine cause of death but if the body was in the ground for a long time there may not be any DNA left to be gathered.

wil

mhge wrote: »

Eh read between the lines... He was not asked because a dozen of other people have reported it already, most likely. Also, "a Sunday Independent investigation" is likely to mean "a garda told us what they think, but can't prove, has happened" and not some groundbreaking supersleuthing.

If a child disappeared coming home from school and none of his teachers were interviewed as part of the investigation, what
does that say. Supersleuthing my....

Anyway I am just reacting the same way any sane angry parent might when realising there was a lot more (soft) information out there than we were lead to believe.
Apologies for railing on and derailing what is an already emotive thread, and especially sad one for some family.

NuckingFacker

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Here's a dopey question - wtf is the vanishing triangle?? sounds ominous..

Deirdre Jacob, Jo Jo Dollard, Annie McCarrick were last seen in Johnny Foxes, Moone Co Kildare, and Newbridge respectively.

The prime suspect would undoubtedly be an infamous ex-con Mr LM from Blessington though nothing has ever been proven.

That said the suspect in question, his last victim was a girl from Carlow who he raped, and had it not been for the intervention of poachers he would have also murdered her. which is what he was subsequently sent down for. Bit of a coincidence how they all came to an end when he was jailed.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

They haven't found one of the Moors Murders victims after tons of years either.

So I'd reckon a lot of missing persons as result of gangland for example are up there, along with other missing persons too.

Jeez, it's such a lovely place too, weird. But you can see how it's the perfect place for disposing of a body.

I think Love Hate had a scene up there too.

I heard a while back on either sky or bbc news that even if the police were pointed to the very spot, that there is a possibility that the profile of the ground will have changed alot since the 1960s, so much so as that the body could be deeper and further away from where it was originally buried/

Highflyer13

Allyall wrote: »

This is the follow up a year later.
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/tapes-throw-new-light-on-abduction-of-philip-cairns-26230779.html

Shock, horror that rancid organisation the catholic church implicated. Knowing what we know now about the church and some of its members this seems quite plausible. Hope the Gaurds investigated them thoroughly.

LETHAL LADY

I can't even begin to imagine the torment families of missing persons feel, regardless of it being through sinister circumstances or through the missing persons volition. My father was involved in the searches for Jo Jo Dollard and obviously it came to nothing but it wasn't for the want of trying on behalf of the searchers.
I remember after Annie McCarrick's dissapearence an RTE news programme showed an image of her at Johnny Foxes either entering or leaving with a man, can't remember which, the image was so eerie but also so indistinguishable it was never going to lead anywhere I suppose.
There was another RTE news programme at the time that showed an image of Deirdre Jacob standing at a queue in the bank with a man standing behind her and an appeal was made by the gardai for this man to identify himself.
I don't know if these leads ever amounted to anything as they cannot be found online. One can only hope that those involved get a conscience as they get older and give these families peace.

Allyall

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Here's a dopey question - wtf is the vanishing triangle?? sounds ominous..

In more detail - http://gaddafi.freesmfhosting.com/index.php?topic=80.0

Allyall

Wattle wrote: »

The remains of two other women were found in the Killakee area in the late 80's early 90's but the killers were never caught. I'm sure they'll be able to determine cause of death but if the body was in the ground for a long time there may not be any DNA left to be gathered.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=11642&Lang=1

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=11758&Lang=1

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.true-crime/Abxohl6XZFk

A bit OTT with the dates, but...
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message199616/pg1

Do they not have CCTV 24/7 in Killakee?

Feckin hell, there must be TONS of bodies up there. Even if 1% of Satanic Worshippers existed and were crazy enough to murder people for whatever reason..

I'd be setting up Cameras in trees, Wildlife Cameras, Earth Cameras, Sky Cameras, Rabbit Cameras, etc.. Any type of Camera i could imagine in my wildest dreams...

Wattle

Allyall wrote: »

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=11642&Lang=1

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=11758&Lang=1

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.true-crime/Abxohl6XZFk

A bit OTT with the dates, but...
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message199616/pg1

Do they not have CCTV 24/7 in Killakee?

Feckin hell, there must be TONS of bodies up there. Even if 1% of Satanic Worshippers existed and were crazy enough to murder people for whatever reason..

I'd be setting up Cameras in trees, Wildlife Cameras, Earth Cameras, Sky Cameras, Rabbit Cameras, etc.. Any type of Camera i could imagine in my wildest dreams...

Could be just a convenient dumping ground. Lots of bogs up there.

Vicar in a tutu

Allyall wrote: »

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=11642&Lang=1

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=11758&Lang=1

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.true-crime/Abxohl6XZFk

A bit OTT with the dates, but...
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message199616/pg1

Do they not have CCTV 24/7 in Killakee?

Feckin hell, there must be TONS of bodies up there. Even if 1% of Satanic Worshippers existed and were crazy enough to murder people for whatever reason..

I'd be setting up Cameras in trees, Wildlife Cameras, Earth Cameras, Sky Cameras, Rabbit Cameras, etc.. Any type of Camera i could imagine in my wildest dreams...

Wow, that is really scary, I do wonder if whoever murdered all these women will at least leave a death bed confession..

Vicar in a tutu

Vicar in a tutu wrote: »

Wow, that is really scary, I do wonder if whoever murdered all these women will at least leave a death bed confession..

These cold blooded killers seem to somehow be able to rationalise their actions to enable themselves to live with what they have done. Some even seem to rationalise it to the point that they genuinely believe that a) they are the wronged party or b) that they convince themselves of their presence in the company of their alibi in a given time and place .Sadly, we shouldnt underestimate the ability of a human conscience to hold its resolve and take dark secrets to the grave with them even if they know well in advance that they will pass on in the not too distant future.

Vicar in a tutu

Deleted User wrote: »

These cold blooded killers seem to somehow be able to rationalise their actions to enable themselves to live with what they have done. Some even seem to rationalise it to the point that they genuinely believe that a) they are the wronged party or b) that they convince themselves of their presence in the company of their alibi in a given time and place .Sadly, we shouldnt underestimate the ability of a human conscience to hold its resolve and take dark secrets to the grave with them even if they know well in advance that they will pass on in the not too distant future.

I guess, seems so unfair though, to think some families hold onto that tiny bit of hope that one day they'll get closure, I think I've read somewhere that the Gardai hate to say there's serial killers about as it causes hysteria.

Zebra3

Allyall wrote: »

This is the follow up a year later.
http://www.independent.ie/unsorted/features/tapes-throw-new-light-on-abduction-of-philip-cairns-26230779.html

Was that paedo ring ever exposed?

JustAThought

Zebra3 wrote: »

Was that paedo ring ever exposed?

What the headmaster said in this is so deeply peculiar . HOW could a person be so specific in their theory & yet never had been interviewed by the police.

Regarding the poor girls remains found in the woods my heart chills when I think about it & how all those families must be distraught & holding in limbo again tonight. RIP.

Teyla Emmagan

Allyall wrote: »

A bit OTT with the dates, but...
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message199616/pg1
.

Great, now I will be seeing Satanists everywhere for the next month!

smacl

Allyall wrote: »

I'd be setting up Cameras in trees, Wildlife Cameras, Earth Cameras, Sky Cameras, Rabbit Cameras, etc.. Any type of Camera i could imagine in my wildest dreams...

Plenty of remote open space around the greater Dublin area, one of the things that makes it such a great place to live in. Covering the place in cameras is probably not the best use of resources to stop crime, better hiring more gardai IMHO, and keeping a visible presence. To be fair, you do regularly see police cars up and down the military road.

Was cycling past the scene at lunchtime yesterday and the place was mobbed with police and reporters. The body was found by a walker, which as often as not what happens up there.