Saorview Connect

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Of course they will be very careful ..... but what I asked was what legal issues surround the data for the EPG?
If you could address that I would appreciate it, thanks.

Sam Russell wrote: »

When I asked, that was the answer. It came across as a policy, rather than a legal opinion.

Thanks.

They can indeed have whatever policies they think suits them, I was only concerned about actual legal situation which is not addressed by the answer you got.

STB.

Some strange ideas being put across as facts regarding EPG usage and rights.

The EPG copyrights do not extend to ROI as Freesat is a UK only service. How strange that RTE never pushed the point that the satellite stations themselves encroach 100% of ROI but the EPG is an issue.

Both sets of EPG for 28.2e are simply not protected. They are not even encrypted. Freesat use compressed Huffman tables. Sky use openepg. Both available on individual transponders on 28.2e that any scraper can interpret.

The reason that it has not been pursued is that rte confused their mission to have a well requested FTA box with their desire to have an IP box for rte geared content. It was all done with state monies.

byte

Anyone remember the Sat4Free boxes? They had the Freesat EPG data, but wasn't there some issue with that and the boxes were discontinued? It's ages ago now and I can't remember. Perhaps that was an issue with the Metaphor middleware moreso than the EPG data?

What's to stop the SVC box pull EPG data from an online source instead of OTA? Would that be seen as a problem?

I'm probably missing something obvious right now, but meh, I'll throw it out there anyway

Sam Russell

byte wrote: »

Anyone remember the Sat4Free boxes? They had the Freesat EPG data, but wasn't there some issue with that and the boxes were discontinued? It's ages ago now and I can't remember. Perhaps that was an issue with the Metaphor middleware moreso than the EPG data?

What's to stop the SVC box pull EPG data from an online source instead of OTA? Would that be seen as a problem?

I'm probably missing something obvious right now, but meh, I'll throw it out there anyway

2RN have ruled out any such use of the Connect box. The software is closed architecture.

STB.

Sam Russell wrote: »

byte wrote: »

Anyone remember the Sat4Free boxes? They had the Freesat EPG data, but wasn't there some issue with that and the boxes were discontinued? It's ages ago now and I can't remember. Perhaps that was an issue with the Metaphor middleware moreso than the EPG data?

What's to stop the SVC box pull EPG data from an online source instead of OTA? Would that be seen as a problem?

I'm probably missing something obvious right now, but meh, I'll throw it out there anyway

2RN have ruled out any such use of the Connect box. The software is closed architecture.

Sam Freesat data is unencrypted and compressed.

http://huffman.sourceforge.net

@byte sat4free boxes replicated the work done by another non e2 box the name right now escapes me. They used to sell them in Maplin along time ago. Technomate also released a patch that allowed iepg to be downloaded to a connected USB stick .

Sam Russell

STB. wrote: »

Sam Freesat data is unencrypted and compressed.

http://huffman.sourceforge.net

@byte sat4free boxes replicated the work done by another non e2 box the name right now escapes me. They used to sell them in Maplin along time ago. Technomate also released a patch that allowed iepg to be downloaded to a connected USB stick .

When you work out how to get the EPG data from Freesat onto the Connect box, let me know. I have been told that there is no way 2RN will sanction it.

STB.

I know they won't Sam. It wasn't top of their priority list when they ran off making a vanity box for the organisation.

I won't be doing anything. I don't have one of these boxes.

The Real B-man

My God this box is such a huge disappointment at the price point! besides on demand features etc it offers not much more than my 5yr old smart tv infact the tv at least has recording features! 
Is this essentially aimed at a certain demographic to watch RTE Re-runs god knows the hassle they have to endure to watch FTA stations i really cant see the point of the box  as you could put your hard earned cash towards a another solution.

Gerry Wicklow

STB. wrote: »

I know they won't Sam. It wasn't top of their priority list when they ran off making a vanity box for the organisation.

I won't be doing anything. I don't have one of these boxes.

STB has far more sense than wasting money on that PoS

lsjmhar

Maybe some of the guys on this thread can create a box with all the special features u want and have. Ye could set up a company, design a box with all the exact specs u want and feel is missing from this box and sky, netflix, hulu, amazon prime. Ye can send design to china and get them to build them. Ye can sell them to the rest of us.

I imagine this new 'magic' box will be within a reasonable price range with 7 day epg for all irish/uk channels, roll back and record services, and on demand function. Given that it aopears simple.to do this I expect ye to be able to deliver this to the rest of us within 12 months.

If ye run into any issues let us know as ye r going along. That way we can see how easy it is.

This shoukd be a piece of piss really given the knowledge ye have.

Former Former

STB. wrote: »

.

The reason that it has not been pursued is that rte confused their mission to have a well requested FTA box with their desire to have an IP box for rte geared content. It was all done with state monies.

RTE don't have a 'desire' for any of this. They knew from day one that this was doomed to absolute failure. You cannot design a box within the constraints that Saorview has and come up with anything other than a hunk of crap - but they still had to do it.

People on this thread have had wildly unrealistic expectations from day one. I'm genuinely baffled that the Freesat EPG thing is still going on.

The Real B-man

lsjmhar wrote: »

Maybe some of the guys on this thread can create a box with all the special features u want and have. Ye could set up a company, design a box with all the exact specs u want and feel is missing from this box and sky, netflix, hulu, amazon prime. Ye can send design to china and get them to build them. Ye can sell them to the rest of us.

I imagine this new 'magic' box will be within a reasonable price range with 7 day epg for all irish/uk channels, roll back and record services, and on demand function. Given that it aopears simple.to do this I expect ye to be able to deliver this to the rest of us within 12 months.

If ye run into any issues let us know as ye r going along. That way we can see how easy it is.

This shoukd be a piece of piss really given the knowledge ye have.

It's not the point of enthusiasts wanting xyz they have there own solutions this is a approved flagship commercial product that lacks basic features in 2018 its overpriced and outdated already.

lsjmhar

Let the people here design the perfect box and offer to rte. I don't want acontract so it will need to be a one off payment.

Also, i want a back button on the remote, YouTube, Eir Sport, Sky Sport, movies, on demand, future proofed. Can i get the box in cyan also. If they can't deliver this then I'm calling incompetence.

The box better only be €99. I won't pay any more. I recomnend all tv/sat installers to cancel orders for all other boxes cause I know these guys are gonna deliver this high spec box at basement price.

Easy peasy!!!

Johnboy1951

lsjmhar wrote: »

Maybe some of the guys on this thread can create a box with all the special features u want and have. Ye could set up a company, design a box with all the exact specs u want and feel is missing from this box and sky, netflix, hulu, amazon prime. Ye can send design to china and get them to build them. Ye can sell them to the rest of us.

I imagine this new 'magic' box will be within a reasonable price range with 7 day epg for all irish/uk channels, roll back and record services, and on demand function. Given that it aopears simple.to do this I expect ye to be able to deliver this to the rest of us within 12 months.

If ye run into any issues let us know as ye r going along. That way we can see how easy it is.

This shoukd be a piece of piss really given the knowledge ye have.

If you arrange to provide the same level of funding that RTE had for their attempt, and open access to their catchup service, then yes it would be quite easily done.
No doubt there would be interested parties if that was arranged by you.

Wheety

lsjmhar wrote: »

Let the people here design the perfect box and offer to rte. I don't want acontract so it will need to be a one off payment.

Also, i want a back button on the remote, YouTube, Eir Sport, Sky Sport, movies, on demand, future proofed. Can i get the box in cyan also. If they can't deliver this then I'm calling incompetence.

The box better only be €99. I won't pay any more. I recomnend all tv/sat installers to cancel orders for all other boxes cause I know these guys are gonna deliver this high spec box at basement price.

Easy peasy!!!

What is your problem? Did you work on Saorview Connect?

I have a triple tuner box so I have all the channels I want. I thought maybe I could buy the connect and have Internet apps too but looks like I'll be losing a lot of functionality so I won't bother. And it's thanks to this thread I know this.

Ten Pin

Tbf, they had the perfect box from the start. The lad from EKT gave every indication that the box they offered had all the capabilities required but they were customising it to RTEs specification.

The Real B-man

Not really look across the puddle
https://www.freeview.co.uk/get-freeview/products/panasonic-dmr-hwt150eb#tOmXzytPCrZw3CfW.97
Not perfect but as the same original price point as the saorview connect box it offers so much more you don't have to re-invent the wheel

Johnboy1951

The Real B-man wrote: »

Not really look across the puddle
https://www.freeview.co.uk/get-freeview/products/panasonic-dmr-hwt150eb#tOmXzytPCrZw3CfW.97
Not perfect but as the same original price point as the saorview connect box it offers so much more you don't have to re-invent the wheel

Reviews there are not very complimentary

Also of course they do not have the complication of having satellite tuners included.

lsjmhar

Ten Pin wrote:

Tbf, they had the perfect box from the start. The lad from EKT gave every indication that the box they offered had all the capabilities required but they were customising it to RTEs specification.

RTE have provided the perfect box with full 7 day egp, rollback/on demand facilities and serie link coming soon. They have no obligation to provide uk freesat channels as they do not receive uk license fee money. The fact that uk now/next is on it is just luck. The company didn't have to provide this.

RTE license fee has to cover salaries, program development, payibg GAA fee for broadcast matches, pay FIFA money for games etc. There is not alot of money left after that. If people want bells and whistles they have to pay extra - sky, virgin, eir. Champions League is going as RTE do not havr enough money to pay the fee asked by UEFA. All this costs money but as I pointed out earlier I am sure all the disappointed people.will be able to provide the rest of us with this 'perfect' box that rte/saorview failed to deliver, and all for 99 euros. lmfao

Tigerandahalf

Comparing it to a freeview box would be unfair as this box has to run 2 different software systems - one for saorview connect and the 2nd for the satellite section.

I do wonder whether the box also has to comply with eu power consumption rules and thus the 2 systems can't operate at the same time. Otherwise it makes no sense why the 2 can't quickly switch between each other. If that was solved it would make the box a lot more appealing. Maybe somebody here is aware of such rules.

Aside from that the box is let down more by the appaling rte player that still hasn't been updated. All catchup should be in HD with subtitles and we should also have 'watch from the start' functionality like the bbc channels on freesat.

There are other issues that need to be sorted to strengthen the box like programmes being available to watch on catchup straight away, not 2 or 3 hours later. Unfortunately this has a lot to do with rights issues and entities selling their rights (linear and catchup) separately. This is one of the reasons why Virgin have pulled out of broadcasting uktv channels.

I wanted to watch the Tour de France highlights last night (on tg4 or itv4) but couldn't as it wasn't up yet on the catchup. That isn't acceptable.

Capt'n Midnight

lsjmhar wrote: »

Maybe some of the guys on this thread can create a box with all the special features u want and have.

TBH all the features are available as a software upgrade on lots of existing boxes.

The limiting features are rights issues on the Freesat EPG and compatible Player Apps.

Atlantic Dawn

Launching a box with no record feature from launch was commercial suicide.

I'd only consider buying the box with zero ads on RTE Player, is that too much to ask, RTE vacumming in **** loads of cash from other areas the BBC could only dream of yet they still try for the half pence from the pence with their trash player.

Johnboy1951

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

TBH all the features are available as a software upgrade on lots of existing boxes.

The limiting features are rights issues on the Freesat EPG and compatible Player Apps.

There is no need to use the 'Freesat' or any other proprietary display of the EPG data, so that is not a limiting factor.

Capt'n Midnight

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Comparing it to a freeview box would be unfair as this box has to run 2 different software systems - one for saorview connect and the 2nd for the satellite section.

I do wonder whether the box also has to comply with eu power consumption rules and thus the 2 systems can't operate at the same time

WUT ?

Every half decent PVR has a minimum of dual tuners. SKY+, Virgin, Freesat have been doing this for ages. All the hard work of decoding and display is done by a DVB chip, be it satellite or terresterial or cable. The OS doesn't have to do much.

I've had Saorsat on an ancient Freesat box but it was only now/next and recording had scheduled manually so it's now on a Linux box and I can record a week ahead. Still use the Freesat box because it's idiot proof.

maximus02

maximus02 wrote: »

I emailed Saorview this morning to inquire when recording would be added.

They replied as follows:

"The recording feature is due to be added to The Powerpoint Saorview Connect box at the end of July. This will be added via. software update. You will need to add external memory to avail of this feature."

I hope this helps.

Hi All

I had an online chat with a Saorview rep this morning. I was enquiring about the status of the recording feature being added to the Powerpoint box. On July 9th last I received an email (as shown above) from Saorsat stating that the recording feature would be added at the end of July. Not very satisfactory as you will see.

Me: Hi Is powerpoint recording feature being made available from today as promised?

Saorview rep: Unfortunately not, Unfortunately we have no official release date for the recording feature as of yet, We can only advise customer to sign up for a Saorview I.D either on our website or on the Saorview Connect box, When we have any information in regards to the recording feature or any software information of the box customers will be notifies through their Saorview I.D

Me: No official release date?? Days?, Weeks? Months?? Not very satisfactory!

Saorview rep: I do apologies but there is no official release date.

Me: This is very disappointing! I bought this box a few days ago in anticipation of this feature being added. And now not even a date in mind. Will this feature ever be added or should I return my powerpoint box?

Saorview rep: The feature will definitely be added to the box, PowerPoint who manufacturer the box are having difficulty with activation of the recording feature.

Me: Ok not your fault I know but this is extremely disapointing. Is there not even a ballpark date in mind for his launch?

Saorview rep: No unfortunately not,the only thing we can advise customer is to sign up for a Saorview I.D, I do apologize for any inconvenience.

End of conversation.

I just wanted to pass on what is happening (or not happening!).

Tigerandahalf

Shambles.

I knew something was up as I was getting no response to facebook messages.

A litancy of missed deadlines and failures.

Rte must be in a bad way if this is what is being served up.

I'd be returning the box only that it is the only option to watch catchup tv and with no ads.
The loss of recording wouldn't be so bad if the rte player was in hd and had subtitles.

Isn't the new rte player the responsibility of rte themselves - though presumably outsourced to someone else.

Johnboy1951

maximus02 wrote: »

........

Saorview rep: The feature will definitely be added to the box, PowerPoint who manufacturer the box are having difficulty with activation of the recording feature.

Me: Ok not your fault I know but this is extremely disapointing. Is there not even a ballpark date in mind for his launch?

I find this very difficult to believe ...... unless the difficulty is integrating with RTÉ's selected firmware/software, and who would one blame for that?

Always blame someone else .....

Tigerandahalf

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I find this very difficult to believe ...... unless the difficulty is integrating with RTÉ's selected firmware/software, and who would one blame for that?

Always blame someone else .....

We know it is Shomar who are the distributors of the box and Powerpoint is just a badge name they have put on the box? Are they a big operation with an internal team or have they just outsourced the software testing to someone else. There are an awful lot of questions that rte need to answer here.

Why are we still waiting for an rte player with chromecast functionality?

I feel people in rte will be before a parliamentarty committee having to explain this mess at some stage in the future.

Ten Pin

And it's been nominated for an award.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/1019932618660466688?p=v
Must have the same nomination committee as the Golden Cleric.

fman

The nomination says more about that award than the box.

meelick

At this stage, I'm so glad I got my money back when I returned my connect box to Currys.

Schorpio

Ten Pin wrote: »

And it's been nominated for an award.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/1019932618660466688?p=v
Must have the same nomination committee as the Golden Cleric.

That really takes the mick.

Looking at the spin put out, you might be forgiven for mistakenly believing that they actually invented catch-up tv. Instead they've just mirrored a foreign market, using established proprietary software, which still lacks the recording abilities of a VCR from the mid-90s.

ozmo

Ten Pin wrote: »

And it's been nominated for an award.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/1019932618660466688?p=v
Must have the same nomination committee as the Golden Cleric.

Genuine Question - Am I missing something with this? or, when finished, will this box do exactly the same thing that's built into most Smart TV's

eg. with my Samsung I get Saorview, Episode Guide, Recording and rewind... as well as FreeSat.

it just works and has done for several years - one remote, one channel listing no wires.

and you can buy the whole TV for not much more than the Saorview box on it own? (well.. less than 300 anyway)

Tigerandahalf

What is the rte player like with other services like Sky, Virgin and Vodafone. How do you access it? Is there ads?

fman

Rte player on sky anyway has minimal content. Last time I checked it was virtually just their own productions. Little to no Uk or US content
Have to say I've never used it so can't comment on ads etc.

Schorpio

I had a mid-range LG TV, which came pre-loaded with the RTE Player app. It's the full app, with all of the content from the web player - but it does have ads.

Tigerandahalf

ozmo wrote: »

Genuine Question - Am I missing something with this? or, when finished, will this box do exactly the same thing that's built into most Smart TV's

eg. with my Samsung I get Saorview, Episode Guide, Recording and rewind... as well as FreeSat.

it just works and has done for several years - one remote, one channel listing no wires.

and you can buy the whole TV for not much more than the Saorview box on it own? (well.. less than 300 anyway)

You won't have catchup probably, which makes it easy to scroll back through programmes, reverse 7 day guide if you like, with just a list of available catchup programmes.

Tv manufacturers also are very bad for not updating apps after a certain period...as they want you to buy a new tv. They have no obligation to update the app. Saorview Connect would be supported.

I have the bbc iplayer on the freesat box and you can restart a programme after it starts which is very handy when you are late to a programme. The hope is that it would come to Saorview too but at this stage things look bleak.

Edit: E.g. tonight I watched The Game, the rte documentary on the game of hurling. I just had to scroll back on the tv guide to Monday and it was there. No need to go searching or typing in the rte player itself.
The 'no ads' is a real bonus at the moment. Everything just plays from start to finish.

suzy_2005ie

a little off topic....but since getting saorview installed - I've had ringing in my ears ever since, particularly upstairs closer to the aerial and satelite - thinking of cancelling subscription now..............

ozmo

suzy_2005ie wrote: »

a little off topic....but since getting saorview installed - I've had ringing in my ears ever since, particularly upstairs closer to the aerial and satelite - thinking of cancelling subscription now..............

It might be a poor quality power supply on something new.

Try unplugging stuff.

The Cush

ozmo wrote: »

It might be a poor quality power supply on something new.

Try unplugging stuff.

There's an LED bulb in my house that does that, it can get annoying if you're in the room for a period of time, but in a room not used often.

Sam Russell

suzy_2005ie wrote: »

a little off topic....but since getting saorview installed - I've had ringing in my ears ever since, particularly upstairs closer to the aerial and satelite - thinking of cancelling subscription now..............

It is free so no subscription.

STB.

lsjmhar wrote: »

RTE have provided the perfect box with full 7 day egp, rollback/on demand facilities and serie link coming soon. They have no obligation to provide uk freesat channels as they do not receive uk license fee money. The fact that uk now/next is on it is just luck. The company didn't have to provide this.

RTE license fee has to cover salaries, program development, payibg GAA fee for broadcast matches, pay FIFA money for games etc. There is not alot of money left after that. If people want bells and whistles they have to pay extra - sky, virgin, eir. Champions League is going as RTE do not havr enough money to pay the fee asked by UEFA. All this costs money but as I pointed out earlier I am sure all the disappointed people.will be able to provide the rest of us with this 'perfect' box that rte/saorview failed to deliver, and all for 99 euros. lmfao

They receive Irish TV licence money though.

For your information RTE/2rn where passed the tech end responsibilities of digital switchover, the FTA platform in place of analogue. They were also passed the responsibility for certified hardware by dcmnr now dccae.

Launching a FTA box for the platform and an rte focussed IPTV box are 2 different things. Saorview is not rte. It's a platform that includes organisations that are separate independent and commercial broadcasters.

There are already boxes that combine the 2 free to air platforms ie both satellite and terrestrial with combined 7 day EPG and associated recording for the afore mentioned 99 euro.

These existing boxes didn't require a shed load of development costs nor a 3 year lead in either. They have been around for about 10 years.

This is 2018 not 2009. Anyone reading this forum for the last 10 years could have told you the same basic requirements that people require in fta land in a certified and platform supported box. It's not as if the retailers weren't feeding this back too.

But hey let's not get that confused with the box that was produced that doesn't even achieve those basics. A vanity box for the organisation that will ensure that FTA as a platform is never a viable alternative to even the most basic sub TVbox because they didn't do the basics is combining both in the absence of commercial muxes.


I gather this yoke still isn't even recording and it's up for awards. Lol.

freshpopcorn

I won't lie. I haven't read all this thread.
We got Saorview Connect near the end of last year.
A few weeks ago the channels on the satellite started to go patchy and then stopped working after a few nights. When we did a rescan the channels still appear.
The RTE player played up the odd time but it normally settled down after plugging in and out the box. In the past week tough it won't play. We've no issues with it on other devices.
Does it sound like a fault with the box or is it external?

Tigerandahalf

I'd say it is problems with the player itself.
The few people on here that have the box have reported occasional issues. I have the iplayer on a freesat box and it sometimes doesn't work either. That is the internet for you.

Satellite channels can come and go sometimes depending on the strength of your signal. I doubt it is an issue with the box.

The old fashioned trick of plugging out and in the box usually does the job.

elsie1b

Any news on when the long promised update to allow recording is to happen on saorview connect box ?

The Cush

elsie1b wrote: »

Any news on when the long promised update to allow recording is to happen on saorview connect box ?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107676261#post107676261

suzy_2005ie

ozmo wrote: »

It might be a poor quality power supply on something new.

Try unplugging stuff.

will give that a try, thanks

danm14

suzy_2005ie wrote: »

will give that a try, thanks

I'd be more worried that you're paying a subscription for Saorview, a free service, than about the ringing in your ears.

Either you've been scammed by whoever sold you the box and are paying a subscription to them for free content, or you've been sold an illegal subscription service that the seller is claiming is some sort of add-on to it for extra channels (or worse they're claiming it's Saorview itself).

Booms

Next time you hear ringing - cover your ears with your hands.

If you can still hear it, it's not something external!

(SOT - I still haven't worked out what to do about the phantom phone vibrations! )

breeno

Has anybody come across an issue where you open the on demand apps and the box seems to think its not connected to Internet despite it actually being connected to WiFi? It won't let me access apps until I go to Web settings and disconnect WiFi and then reconnect? It's pretty frustrating!