Saorview Connect

galtee boy

Tony wrote: »

I respectfully disagree, I think many will see this as a a big improvement on current combo boxes.

Tony, obviously we unfortunately know the combo box won't have UK 7 Day EPG, but do you know if we will be at least able to combine Saorview and UK channels on the one EPG, albeit with just now and next on the UK channels ?

Harry Palmr

galtee boy wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how can it have series link for the UK channels, if it doesn't have a 7 day EPG for the UK channels ?

It can't as the software wouldn't be able to see ahead.

Tony

No , I made no mention of this

" Originally Posted by dubrov View Post
Even without a 7 day epg, if the new product could handle automatic channel tuning and ordering (including uk channels) , it would still be a step forward"

mackersdublin wrote: »

Series Link for both Saorview and UK channels?

Tony

Yes it will be one combined channel list to my knowledge

galtee boy wrote: »

Tony, obviously we unfortunately know the combo box won't have UK 7 Day EPG, but do you know if we will be at least able to combine Saorview and UK channels on the one EPG, albeit with just now and next on the UK channels ?

Harry Palmr

Someone should write up the definitive history of digital era FTA tv in Ireland. It'll be a catalogue of missteps and missed opportunities

Sam Russell

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Someone should write up the definitive history of digital era FTA tv in Ireland. It'll be a catalogue of missteps and missed opportunities

... and disappointments.

Johnboy1951

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I should have said that differently
In reality they'll be modifying an already existing design which will have many of those features built in.

The trick is getting something stable to market with the basics. Extra wish list bells and whistles can be done later.


Most of the chipsets allow input and decoding of various DVB streams, just need to add the appropriate tuners. It's already been done loads of times. But apart from one old UK box, it hasn't been done with the proprietary Freesat EPG. (except as a linux add on by enthusiasts )

But there should be no need for the Freesat EPG layout, thus avoiding all the proprietary hassle.
The EPG data itself is not proprietary to Freesat as you know.

Tying up with Freesat for any part of the device seems to be the root of the problem.

channelsurfer2

so basically it will just have an internet element for the rte player(if it even has that) and a rewind function.
Meanwhile as others have said the edision and other boxes have had this for 2 to 3 years with a full 7day epg(with some knowledge needed of coolepg etc). It looks like freesat really screwed them over when the won the tender.

Capt'n Midnight

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

But there should be no need for the Freesat EPG layout, thus avoiding all the proprietary hassle.
The EPG data itself is not proprietary to Freesat as you know..

I suppose if push came to shove on the copyright issue you could get someone in on jobbridge to type in the listings as they appear in the RTE Guide and push the EPG out over Saorview.

Johnboy1951

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I suppose if push came to shove on the copyright issue you could get someone in on jobbridge to type in the listings as they appear in the RTE Guide and push the EPG out over Saorview.

I think there might be an easier way

STB.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Historically there's the McGill case and EU database laws allowing copying of list of facts but not the layout.

However, all moot if Freesat start encrypting the data.

The layout is already been sold, by Methaphor, the Freetime developers.

Freesat wont be encrypting the data as their software doesnt and couldn't decrypt anything anyway. You'd have to replace all the existing freesat products sold.

The compressed EIT data on the narrow band TP on 28E presented for Freesat enabled products is in the form of Huffman tables. These were initially decompressed by the Myth TV community, before they made their way to linux boxes.

Like I said, the data is broadcast in the open.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Nope.

KISS. Keep it simple for the first one. Most of the fancy stuff can be added on later in software but only after the system is stable.

4K is over kill for now. Saorview isn't using T2 for legacy reasons with the first batch of receivers. TV3, 3e, TG4, UTV are still in SD. I'd also be wary of choosing hardware with licensing costs on the basis it might be useful later on. Sky boxes and saorview and TV's all have CI slots so decoding hardware can be added later.

Software add ons sound good but, they have to be continuously patched, are only useful if you have internets and most people with the internets already have devices or smart TV's , security concerns could your affect your brand. And all moot on the initial release as they can be pushed out later over the air, as indeed Netflix and on demand features were in the UK.

For future proofing just pick a stable chipset with spare processing power extra memory and ram. Stuff like CI slot , CEC , and a universal infra red remote are all no-brainers too. I'd add in legacy RF output, what % of Irish homes have a TV in the bedroom using analog from UPC or SKY ? ( This perhaps is the only possible justification of an RF type remote over infra red, and even then the path back over the co-ax is a better option in most cases ) Allowing the box to stream might be an option too, but that could be done in software later, but may not appeal to luddites.

Nope ?

Keeping it simple can be done without investing in more chipsets that have limitations down the road. Freesat and some of their manufacturers that received certification themselves have learned this the hard way, having to give away free hardware due to the limitations of their product.

The ARM/Broadcom chipsets that support 4k are already in wide circulation. The latest linux boxes are proof of this. They are not all high end.

When I mentioned 4k capability, it wasn't about the ability to receive future 4k dvb broadcasts (god forbid! if it happens anywhere it'll be on sat) . Having the right chip as part of the hardware spec would also allow for the use of H265 and/or 4k Netflix streams and or attached media devices. The H265/HEVC codec also allows for higher data compression without perceived quality loss for normal streams. Anyone who has watched a 200meg TV series off a USB will tell you as much. That's why it'll be probably end up the streaming codec of choice for them all. Picking the wrong hardware chip, wouldn't allow this.

The reason that the DVB EIT grab hasnt been hardcoded into UK products is because there is already an adequate amount of Freesat licensed products. I presume you are talking about the Passion box that came out years ago. Yes it would have required a firmware/ota update in order to update the hardcoded links for the box to keep populating this data, especially if Freesat moves the EPG TP as happened last year when it moved off the wider beam. Any Irish box would have the same requirements, if grabbing this data.

Additional must have hardware is a adequate RAM/ROM and a decent CPU. As can be seen by current combos on the market be it open linux OS or proprietary software, the norm is 750MHZ +.

The licensing costs that you perceive out there are a normal part of any box spec. The likes of HEVC only becomes licensable after a 100,000 unit run, and is 20c per unit after that. Netflix cant wait for you to take their plugin.

DVB-T2 over DVB-T is a non argument. Space isn't an issue, content is.

Its CI+. not CI, by the way and I cant follow the relevance either way.

Anyhow, anything I did mention are basic to any 2015/6 set top box. They should be on from the start. They are widely implemented in many hybrid boxes already.

I wouldn't be so sure of OTA firmware updates pushing out future features. It really hasn't been utilised to any extent so far in Ireland. Persisting with one OEM is the biggest issue and has resulted in limitations to date, imo.

icdg

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I suppose if push came to shove on the copyright issue you could get someone in on jobbridge to type in the listings as they appear in the RTE Guide and push the EPG out over Saorview.

Even that would be breaking copyright, as the listings themselves are the subject of copyright. Up until 1991, you couldn't publish a listings magazine that covered RTE, BBC, and ITV, as they wouldn't give each other or anyone else permission to publish each other's listings. There's an interesting thread in Broadcasting History about it.

Harry Palmr

Ah sure change the programme descriptions and misspell a few titles....;)

STB.

icdg wrote: »

Even that would be breaking copyright, as the listings themselves are copyrighted.

TBH, I dont follow why Saorview would even dream of providing such a "service" for other broadcasters.

The EIT/data tables are already broadcast free to air, just like the stations themselves.

Anyhow, the FTA community are doomed if the plans are as laid out in the last few pages of this thread are true. Pay per view owners will just laugh.

Joo0

Saorview can't seem to get anything right. Computer grads in college would be able to create a better box! This new box sounds like it will be an expensive white elephant

former total

Joo0 wrote: »

Saorview can't seem to get anything right. Computer grads in college would be able to create a better box! This new box sounds like it will be an expensive white elephant

No one has any idea what the box will look like or how much it will cost. It is all speculation.

Capt'n Midnight

STB. wrote: »

TBH, I dont follow why Saorview would even dream of providing such a "service" for other broadcasters.

Don't SKY already get more subs and advertising revenue in the Irish market than RTE ?

From a marketing point of view every viewer they can get onto Saorview means more advertising revenue. If a program is on both I'd usually watch it on Freesat because it's more button presses to switch from Freesat to Saorview and series link works.

Essentially I'm using Saorview as a top-up-tv rather than the other way around and that's not what the marketing people in RTE or TV3 or UTV Ireland or TG4 want to hear. Though of course only RTE is in HD also also has a lot to do with it.

Another conflict of interest is that UTV Ireland marketing probably wouldn't like UTV HD being available on the same EPG.

Sam Russell

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Another conflict of interest is that UTV Ireland marketing probably wouldn't like UTV HD being available on the same EPG.

They could always put Utv Ireland HD on the EPG, couldn't they? After that is in their gift.

The Cush

https://twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/717612415756673024

The Cush

Saorview Connect gets a mention in a recent article on innovation sharing

http://www.v-net.tv/comcast%E2%80%99s-syndication-of-x1-platform-is-another-sign-of-innovation-sharing

"More signs are emerging of how the technology needed to build next-generation TV platforms is being ‘shared’ among operators. RTÉ in Ireland is developing a new hybrid broadcast broadband platform (combining linear TV with broadband-delivered on-demand) for the Saorview DTT service, with the new Saorview Connect offer scheduled to launch later this year. Freesat in the UK, which has its own HBB service called Freetime, has licensed its connected guide (commercialized and marketed under the name Metaphor) to RTÉ and will integrate the platform, set-top box application and mobile applications with the Soarview linear service as part of a fully managed service".

mikeecho

I'm going ot here, but will this be popular I have been using an Android box running kodi for the last 6 months and I rarely watch live TV anymore I think the future of TV is streaming

Tony

Saorview connect will use streaming for its backwards 7 day epg. Theres the possibility of other 3rd party app's being added too.

mikeecho

Tony wrote: »

Saorview connect will use streaming for its backwards 7 day epg. Theres the possibility of other 3rd party app's being added too.

Sounds good as long as there is an xbmc/kodi add-on

The days of live tv are gone unfortunately.

SteM

mikeecho wrote: »

The days of live tv are gone unfortunately.

For you maybe but there's still a generation of people in this country who have no desire to use kodi or an android box. They want a way to watch/record their soaps, the news, the late late etc. Saorview connect is aimed at them, not at you.

Atlantic Dawn

A 7 day backwards streaming service would be a big plus but if they overload it with ads like the way they do with RTÉ Player it will be a 100% pain in the hole to use. Pricing is going to be key.

mikeecho

SteM wrote: »

For you maybe but there's still a generation of people in this country who have no desire to use kodi or an android box. They want a way to watch/record their soaps, the news, the late late etc. Saorview connect is aimed at them, not at you.

I was part of that generation 6 months ago.

Atlantic Dawn

Does anyone have any sales figures of the Walker PVR over its lifetime?

Johnboy1951

mikeecho wrote: »

Sounds good as long as there is an xbmc/kodi add-on

The days of live tv are gone unfortunately.

I use Kodi to watch live TV as well as streaming content.

Live TV is definitely not gone for a lot of people ..... and using Kodi does not mean it is.

PabloAndRoy

mikeecho wrote: »

Sounds good as long as there is an xbmc/kodi add-on

The days of live tv are gone unfortunately.

Sounds like you have a new favourite toy . I can tell you with 100% certaintly that Saorview Connect will not be available on Kodi. If someone hacks one together, it will have no official support, won't be updated regularly and will be broken within 2 months. There is very little incentive for someone to create such an addon, for such a small audience.

I really like Kodi and (like many others all over the world) use Kodi on Raspbery Pis mainly to watch Live TV (Saorview & Freesat in my case). I also have a few VoD/catch-up apps on Kodi, but normally for VoD and catch-up I would use chromecast as the mobile apps are generally quicker and easier to use that the Kodi (usually unofficial) addons).

Linear TV is far from dead. Sport and news can not be best accessed via streaming services (maybe some IPTV services. ) For example, how did you watch HD Master's Golf last night (assuming you had an interest)? BBC live coverage was excellent and free to air. Long live Live TV (on Kodi) :-)

Johnboy1951

This might be of interest to Irish Kodi users

http://zakalibit.github.io/kodi.rteplayer.hq/

True there is no guarantee it will be supported for many years to come .... but very little carries such guarantees.

Enjoy it while it is available

icdg

Guys, there is NO discussion of piracy here. 48 hour ban for the next person who is talking about anything which isn't Saorview Connect

PabloAndRoy

icdg wrote: »

Guys, there is NO discussion of piracy here. 48 hour ban for the next person who is talking about anything which isn't Saorview Connect

I genuinely do not see any discussion of piracy here. Kodi is not piracy. Everything I do on Kodi is 100% legal mainly linear tv. Fair enough that we have gone off topic a little but its not piracy.

The rte player addon is really just a way of accessing the rte website. Those streams are region restricted and cannot be accessed outside of Ireland.

icdg

Doesnt matter whether it's piracy or not (and like Dreamboxes, it is more a case of what people tend to use it for than anything inherent in the software itself). But that doesn't actually matter because this is a thread about Saorview Connect and it is off topic to discuss it at all, legal or not

There is also no on thread discussion of moderation.

No replies to this post please, or you may be banned. Back on topic

galtee boy

Tony wrote: »

Saorview connect will use streaming for its backwards 7 day epg. Theres the possibility of other 3rd party app's being added too.

Hi Tony, any whispers from within your trade colleagues as to any more info on Saorview Connect, especially the combo box ? Or even anything on a launch date ?

Tony

I'm sorry I cant comment further until authorised by Saorview as I have a non disclosure agreement with them.

galtee boy wrote: »

Hi Tony, any whispers from within your trade colleagues as to any more info on Saorview Connect, especially the combo box ? Or even anything on a launch date ?

Gerry Wicklow

Tony wrote: »

I'm sorry I cant comment further until authorised by Saorview as I have a non disclosure agreement with them.

I can tell you that I can't tell you

Tony

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

I can tell you that I can't tell you

Sums it up nicely :-)

galtee boy

Tony wrote: »

I'm sorry I cant comment further until authorised by Saorview as I have a non disclosure agreement with them.

Fair enough, can't blame me for trying !

Tony

yep always worth trying.

galtee boy wrote: »

Fair enough, can't blame me for trying !

byte

Shure we'll say nothing!

Sam Russell

We will have to wait for the disappointment then.

Tony

Why would you assume that you will be disappointed ? Would it not be better to wait to see what transpires and then give an informed opinion?

Sam Russell wrote: »

We will have to wait for the disappointment then.

Hibrasil

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Linear TV is far from dead. Sport and news can not be best accessed via streaming services (maybe some IPTV services. ) For example, how did you watch HD Master's Golf last night (assuming you had an interest)? BBC live coverage was excellent and free to air. Long live Live TV (on Kodi) :-)

Long live the king/queen....he/she is not yet dead;)

Capt'n Midnight

Any chance it will be ready in time for the Virgin Media MMDS shutdown ?

former total

Tony wrote: »

Why would you assume that you will be disappointed ? Would it not be better to wait to see what transpires and then give an informed opinion?

Saorview could bring out a box that was TV receiver, catch up service, Kodi box and Nespresso machine all in one and people here would still be moaning because they left out the milk frother.

channelsurfer2

former total wrote: »

Saorview could bring out a box that was TV receiver, catch up service, Kodi box and Nespresso machine all in one and people here would still be moaning because they left out the milk frother.

The milk frother is essential!:)... I look forward to it anyways even without the 7 day satellite EPG I will probably buy the version with the PVR function.

The Cush

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Any chance it will be ready in time for the Virgin Media MMDS shutdown ?

With MMDS shutdown next Monday, no.

Most MMDS subscribers by this time should have their replacement TV service in place although there will be a few who will leave it to the last minute.

bk

Tony wrote: »

Why would you assume that you will be disappointed ? Would it not be better to wait to see what transpires and then give an informed opinion?

Unless it has 7 day EPG for the UK FTA channels integrated with the saorview EPG, then everyone is gong to be disappointed and no one is going to buy it, just like very few Saorview PVR's were bought.

People want the UK channels, no one cares about RTE catchup, etc.

channelsurfer2

bk wrote: »

Unless it has 7 day EPG for the UK FTA channels integrated with the saorview EPG, then everyone is gong to be disappointed and no one is going to buy it, just like very few Saorview PVR's were bought.

People want the UK channels, no one cares about RTE catchup, etc.

how many soarview pvr's were bought? a few hundred if that??

Sam Russell

Tony wrote: »

Why would you assume that you will be disappointed ? Would it not be better to wait to see what transpires and then give an informed opinion?

Experience.

Everything Saorview have done so far has been disappointing - why should this be different?