Has Breaking Bad changed the TV landscape for some years to come?

don ramo

Footoo wrote: »

Saying The beatles were crap or The Godfather is crap or that that fella Shakepeare was ****e is just wrong. It's the same with The wire.

i agree the wire is not incoherent crap, and anyone who watched the entire show would never say that, but the godfather is one of the most overrated films ive ever watched, i first watched it when i was 16 and despised it, i watched it again when i was 22-23 cause i was a bit older and thought id have a better understanding, needless to say i didnt, i just dont get the love for it, and have had countless arguments about it,

you can watch 2 hours of crap and listen to crap on the radio for 3 minutes, but you cant watch 5 seasons of it:)

youreadthat

Footoo wrote: »

It's not incoherent crap though and anyone thst has that opinion is either stupid or a troll.

A person can not r like The Wire. That is their choice and is something the should be respected but to say it's crap is just plain wrong.

It's widely regarded as the greatest TV show of all time. It's the very opposite of crap. That doesn't mean that everyone should love it either.

Saying The beatles were crap or The Godfather is crap or that that fella Shakepeare was ****e is just wrong. It's the same with The wire.

The Godfather isn't crap, it's one of the most boring films ever made though which is an achievement in itself.

FloatingVoter

Footoo wrote: »

It's not incoherent crap though and anyone thst has that opinion is either stupid or a troll.

A person can not r like The Wire. That is their choice and is something the should be respected but to say it's crap is just plain wrong.

It's widely regarded as the greatest TV show of all time. It's the very opposite of crap. That doesn't mean that everyone should love it either.

Saying The beatles were crap or The Godfather is crap or that that fella Shakepeare was ****e is just wrong. It's the same with The wire.

The Beatles and Shakespeare both had off-moments (Octopus's Garden, Revolution 9, Henry VIII anybody). Thats assuming Shakespeare wrote all his own stuff (ok, there I'm trolling).
As for The Godfather trilogy I'd rate part 2 streets ahead of 1 and prefer to forget about most of 3.
In terms of TV, liking or disliking The Wire is not a measure of how intelligent you are.

don ramo

FloatingVoter wrote: »

In terms of TV, liking or disliking The Wire is not a measure of how intelligent you are.

of course not, but i do question someone who took the effort upon themselves to watch 5 season of incoherent crap,

FloatingVoter

don ramo wrote: »

of course not, but i do question someone who took the effort upon themselves to watch 5 season of incoherent crap,

Don't respond with "you have to watch it all to get it" - first three episodes were enough for me to jump ship. i looked over peoples shoulders as the rest unfolded and saw nothing to persuade me to give it another shot.
The fact that I think that Idris Elba is a great stage actor and Aiden Gillen is a piece of cardboard (he does stoned very well in Love/Hate) probably didn't help.

mdwexford

Deleted User wrote: »

The Wire, Generation Kill, Game of Thrones, Treme, Boardwalk Empire, Mad Men, Deadwood, The Shield, Battlestar Galactica, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Six Feet Under, Dexter (early series), Eastbound & Down, Southland, etc, etc are all right up there with Breaking Bad.

Then you have shows such as banshee, The Americans, Orange is the New Black, Borgen, The Bridge, Broadchurch, Elementary, Hannibal, Person of Interest, Rectify, Top of the Lake, Vikings and a dozen more that have the potential to be just as good as Breaking Bad.

Cop on to yourself there will you.

BB is at least top 5 all time and as much as I enjoy Eastbound & Down to compare it to BB is just nonsense. Many of the other shows you mention are average at best.

mdwexford

mdwexford wrote: »

Cop on to yourself there will you.

BB is at least top 5 all time and as much as I enjoy Eastbound & Down to compare it to BB is just nonsense. Many of the other shows you mention are average at best.

I wasn't comparing it to Breaking Bad but rather pointing out that there are a number if genuinely great shows out there and even more coming along that have the potential to be every bit as good as Breaking Bad is.

As for Breaking Bad being one of the 5 greatest shows of all time, well I doubt that. Don't get me wrong, it's an exceptional piece of television and I've rewatched it countless times but to be one of top 5 shows ever then it needs to change the landscape of television.

A show such as Oz, flawed as it was at times is more deserving of a spot in the all time greats given how it so drastically changed tv. Breaking Bad, The Wire, sopranos, etc would not exist we're it not for Oz. Deadwood is another which laid the ground work for other greats. Without it you wouldn't have Game of Thrones.

Footoo

FloatingVoter wrote: »

In terms of TV, liking or disliking The Wire is not a measure of how intelligent you are.

No of course not but calling it incoherent crap when it's clearly not just might be.

I don't particularly like Jazz but I'd be an absolute idiot to call Miles Davis crap.

Vision of Disorder

Deleted User wrote: »

A show such as Oz, flawed as it was at times is more deserving of a spot in the all time greats given how it so drastically changed tv.

I did namecheck Oz above.

fryup

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

I think Breaking Bad is good, very good even but MASSIVELY overhyped.

overhyped underhyped if anything esp over here and the uk...i only came across it one night on tg4 by chance

as i said before i find it baffling that BB isn't on any of the main UK channels, over here its on a minority channel in the witching hour

This show should be promoted like the Sopranos was, i think its tragic to think that there is a large section of the viewing public who are unaware of it

FloatingVoter

Footoo wrote: »

No of course not but calling it incoherent crap when it's clearly not just might be.

I don't particularly like Jazz but I'd be an absolute idiot to call Miles Davis crap.

Sure, Miles Davis was a person. An extremely talented and prolific one. However in his time I'm sure he produced masterpieces akin to Breaking Bad and ehhh....other stuff more akin to The Wire.

Back to the "Changing the TV Landscape" theme, Twin Peaks for all its flaws (it had many) undoubtedly changed the whole idea of what you can do / get away with in TV longform. And that was because someone had the crazy idea of letting "mad genius" David Lynch loose on TV schedules. I don't think BB has had the same revolutionary impact. That doesn't stop it being one of the best shows of the last decade.

splashthecash

Rjd2 wrote: »

Think Rectify might fill that spot, amazing television, although probably won't as popular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvACn9-3Evg

"This is as messed up as a pile of hangers"...great line!

Vision of Disorder

fryup wrote: »

overhyped underhyped if anything esp over here and the uk...i only came across it one night on tg4 by chance

as i said before i find it baffling that BB isn't on any of the main UK channels, over here its on a minority channel in the witching hour

This show should be promoted like the Sopranos was, i think its tragic to think that there is a large section of the viewing public who are unaware of it

I don't disagree with what you've said there at all actually. I think it's massively overhyped by it's cheerleaders though. This does not change the fact that it is a very good show.

mdwexford

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasn't comparing it to Breaking Bad but rather pointing out that there are a number if genuinely great shows out there and even more coming along that have the potential to be every bit as good as Breaking Bad is.

As for Breaking Bad being one of the 5 greatest shows of all time, well I doubt that. Don't get me wrong, it's an exceptional piece of television and I've rewatched it countless times but to be one of top 5 shows ever then it needs to change the landscape of television.

A show such as Oz, flawed as it was at times is more deserving of a spot in the all time greats given how it so drastically changed tv. Breaking Bad, The Wire, sopranos, etc would not exist we're it not for Oz. Deadwood is another which laid the ground work for other greats. Without it you wouldn't have Game of Thrones.

I don't think they do though, I haven't seen any show at that level that currently airs.

I would respect shows like Oz which may have paved the way but for me my top shows are the ones that entertained me the most and The Sopranos and Breaking Bad are the ones that did that.

ScumLord

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I'm watching Hell on Wheels at the moment. That's good and getting better. Given that its heroic figure is running up a body count close to Walt and just putting it down to the moral weather - there goes the good guy as hero thing.

The setting makes all the difference though, it was a bit of a kill or be killed world. It would have been so easy to get away with murder back then that it was probably pretty common. I think back then you could kill and be a good guy as long as you killed the right people.

Vikings definitely has potential...but I'd rather a proper show on their descendants - The Normans - invasions, butchery, betrayal, genocide and getting a nice portrait painted afterwards. I'm laying money thats this is in development somewhere - first season is just pencilled William.

What I'd like to see is the progression in Ireland. End the Vikings series with them setting up in Dublin and then start a new show focused on Brian Boru driving them out. Then you could go onto the normans. Although with the Vikings you could go into the history of many cultures. Russians are Vikings too, the word russia comes from "rowing men".

pickarooney

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Far from it. People who greenlight shows want the synopsis kept as simple as possible. Breaking Bad isn't easily summed up

Breaking Bad had one of the most famously terse pitches : Mr. Chips becomes Scarface.

If you can summarize any other show in fewer than four words, good on you.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

oz: people get prison raped

splashthecash

The Wire: social commentary in Baltimore

splashthecash

the west wing: Martin Sheen is POTUS

pickarooney

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

oz: people get prison raped

"Prisoners raped" if you want to be succinct about it but it kind of misses the essence of the show, no?

pickarooney

splashthecash wrote: »

The Wire: social commentary in Baltimore

The rest of that lift ride would be unconfortable.

splashthecash

pickarooney wrote: »

"Prisoners raped" if you want to be succinct about it but it kind of misses the essence of the show, no?

True enough - a TV about prisoners getting raped...would probably feel like its repeating itself after the first few episodes :eek:

smee again

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Don't respond with "you have to watch it all to get it" - first three episodes were enough for me to jump ship. i looked over peoples shoulders as the rest unfolded and saw nothing to persuade me to give it another shot.
The fact that I think that Idris Elba is a great stage actor and Aiden Gillen is a piece of cardboard (he does stoned very well in Love/Hate) probably didn't help.

After only giving it 3 episodes you wouldn't even understand the lingo, which takes most of the first season to get to know the names etc. Both Elba and Gillen are excellent in the Wire, but then again, after 3 episodes you've not seen much of them

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

he is right about aiden gillen though

Tipsy McSwagger

I enjoyed Oz but its a fantasy/cartoon version of what really happens in prison. It's entertaining, but so far fetched, and full of plot holes it can't be taken serious.

Tipsy McSwagger

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I enjoyed Oz but its a fantasy/cartoon version of what really happens in prison. It's entertaining, but so far fetched, and full of plot holes it can't be taken serious.

It's not supposed to be taken too serious. It's one of those great shows that can toe the line between gritty realism and farce.

Rjd2

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not supposed to be taken too serious. It's one of those great shows that can toe the line between gritty realism and farce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPxE1aOiBNM

Yep, and when it went all out farce it was great.
I love OZ, only thing which hurts its legacy was the final season and it has not aged well, but its still a quality show.

Rjd2

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

sometimes it's really hard to be a deadwood hipster. trying to spread the word and ****ing no one's interested.

Dunno, I love the show myself. I'd imagine loads of people have watched it over the years whether online or Boxset. I know it wasn't exactly a massive success like Sex And The City, but its not unknown.:)

_Kaiser_

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

there's always the shield, not a weak season and (not knowing how breaking bad is going to end just yet) is imo the best beginning to end tv show that got a full run. it has a beginning, a middle and an ending. an honest to goodness ending that ties things up and leaves you satisfied about the last seven seasons.

How can I thank this more than once??

I'm with FV on The Wire too.. I watched The Shield first, absolutely LOVED it (and still do on repeat viewings) and decided I'd have to try The Wire next.

I gave up a few episodes. If a show doesn't grab you (or pull you in to at least some extent) from the start then it's not worth persevering with IMO. I don't believe in "forcing" myself to like a show just because it's "cool"

As for Breaking Bad.. I've never watched it but will give it a go over the weekend. I'm looking for something new

don ramo

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Don't respond with "you have to watch it all to get it" - first three episodes were enough for me to jump ship. i looked over peoples shoulders as the rest unfolded and saw nothing to persuade me to give it another shot.
The fact that I think that Idris Elba is a great stage actor and Aiden Gillen is a piece of cardboard (he does stoned very well in Love/Hate) probably didn't help.

pffft 3 episode would tell you didly squat about a show, i dropped BB after 3-4 episodes and didnt restart watching it till mid season 3 after 3-4 people told me that it got much better, 2 sec there ill just dive into the sopranos there, i may start in season 4 episode 11, im sure ill figure it out,

wow 2 whole actor who are much bigger these days than back when the show was being made, gillen doesnt even come into it till season 3, and elba has just as many episodes, but use the big names to make your point that you watched 3 episode and decided it was incoherent crap, its not a procedural show, so i would be fairly disappointed if things made sense after 3 episodes, its an extended multi-season show,

only 8 actors were in every episode, elba and gillian are about 18-19 on the episodes count list,

ive no problem with people disliking a show, but to say its incoherent crap is a bit much,

FloatingVoter

don ramo wrote: »

pffft 3 episode would tell you didly squat about a show, i dropped BB after 3-4 episodes and didnt restart watching it till mid season 3 after 3-4 people told me that it got much better, 2 sec there ill just dive into the sopranos there, i may start in season 4 episode 11, im sure ill figure it out,

wow 2 whole actor who are much bigger these days than back when the show was being made, gillen doesnt even come into it till season 3, and elba has just as many episodes, but use the big names to make your point that you watched 3 episode and decided it was incoherent crap, its not a procedural show, so i would be fairly disappointed if things made sense after 3 episodes, its an extended multi-season show,

only 8 actors were in every episode, elba and gillian are about 18-19 on the episodes count list,

ive no problem with people disliking a show, but to say its incoherent crap is a bit much,

Grand - I dislike it because its incoherent crap to a person of my mental abilities. Should have said that first time. The Wire thread is thisaway http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1007

FloatingVoter

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Grand - I dislike it because its incoherent crap to a person of my mental abilities. Should have said that first time. The Wire thread is thisaway http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1007

A person of your mental abilities?

LOL

smee again

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Grand - I dislike it because its incoherent crap to a person of my mental abilities. Should have said that first time. The Wire thread is thisaway http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1007

It's incoherent because that's the way they actually converse, which is why you need to give it more than 3 episodes. I was lost for most of the first season. Like GOT, there's so much going on I found it best to have a guide or the IMDB app to read a brief synopsis of each episode when finished before you start the next. By the second season you're flying.

Crap, it certainly is not, you didn't give it a chance.

_Kaiser_

smee again wrote: »

It's incoherent because that's the way they actually converse, which is why you need to give it more than 3 episodes. I was lost for most of the first season. Like GOT, there's so much going on I found it best to have a guide or the IMDB app to read a brief synopsis of each episode when finished before you start the next. By the second season you're flying.

Crap, it certainly is not, you didn't give it a chance.

As I said earlier in the thread, why should you have to force yourself to like a show or give it a chance if it's such a mess (in some viewer's opinions) that watchability and entertainment value is sacrificed for "realism" and "gritty"

I blame BSG. An excellent show when it got things right, but as shown by Stargate Universe, that style can be an utter failure in the wrong context.

I stand by what I said personally.. if a show hasn't hooked you in by (ideally) the first episode, or at latest the 2nd, it's more of a chore than a choice IMO.

IvaBigWun

pickarooney wrote: »

Breaking Bad had one of the most famously terse pitches : Mr. Chips becomes Scarface.

If you can summarize any other show in fewer than four words, good on you.

Thats Vince Gilligan's most used phrase, but in no way does it fully summarise the show

Yknow what sucks? Being a fan of the resurgence of excellent animated shows that get nowhere near as enough recognition as they should. I'm talking Avatar: The Last Airbender, the Legend of Kora, Tron: Uprising. All absolutely amazing shows that get nada.

Dman001

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

How can I thank this more than once??

I'm with FV on The Wire too.. I watched The Shield first, absolutely LOVED it (and still do on repeat viewings) and decided I'd have to try The Wire next.

I gave up a few episodes. If a show doesn't grab you (or pull you in to at least some extent) from the start then it's not worth persevering with IMO. I don't believe in "forcing" myself to like a show just because it's "cool"

As for Breaking Bad.. I've never watched it but will give it a go over the weekend. I'm looking for something new

I envy the man who gets to watch BB from Season 1 fresh, and is able to binge watch his way to the end. Waiting a week is a killer, but I do love the discussions on what happened and what could come.

I kinda agree with you on your theory that if a show doesn't grab you on the first episode/second episode its not worth sticking with. But there have been exceptions for me so try to give a show at least a Season before deciding, to give it time to find its feet. When I first watches The Sopranos I thought it was pretty meh. But as the seasons went on and the stories developed, I was hooked. Seasons 3 and 4 especially had fantastic, gripping storylines. There's great value in rewatching The Sopranos too, I enjoyed it as much the second time around.

Saying that, I've tried The Wire a few times and couldn't get past the first episode. I really have to watch the first season at least. The same for Parks and Recreation. I've heard great things, but nothing in the Pilot has convinced me.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

parks and rec finds its feet in season 2, season 3 isn't quite as good and s4/5 are decent but weak enough overall

it's worth watching though, if only for the fantastic s2

IvaBigWun

So now that most fans have seen the finale, does it go into the TV League Of Greatness along with The West Wing, Sopranos etc?

The last episode was lacking for me, but overall I feel its in my all time top 3 and that - yes - it has changed the TV landscape for many years to come.

The bar has well and truly been raised

IvaBigWun

IvaBigWun wrote: »

So now that most fans have seen the finale, does it go into the TV League Of Greatness along with The West Wing, Sopranos etc?

The last episode was lacking for me, but overall I feel its in my all time top 3 and that - yes - it has changed the TV landscape for many years to come.

The bar has well and truly been raised

I hope it goes without say that if anyone feels the need to mention any events of the finale then they should spoiler it or take it to one of the dedicated threads.

don ramo

i dont think it has raised a bar, but it has maintained the decent quality of TV that has been made in the last 10-15 years, it is a top top show that will be recommended for years to come, it is easy on par with shows like the west wing and sopranos, probably edging them out in some areas, but theyll edge BB out in others, but thats just simply down the premise of each show,

alright so whats next :D

Pinkman

Taking everything into account I would say it is the closest to perfection that any tv show has ever attained. Incredible beginning, middle and an end - no show has managed that to this level IMO. The Wire and The Sopranos set the bar but I think BB has raised it due to it's unrivalled level of consistency. It's the only show I've ever seen where it got better and better with each season. The level it's improved both in terms of quality and popularity throughout is amazing. Just looking at the metecritic ratings of each season. S1 got 74/100, S2: 85/100, S3: 89/100, S4 96/100 and S5 an incredible 99/100 (which resulted in it breaking the Guinness World record for the most critically acclaimed show in the history of television, it's also the highest rated by the public on imdb with 9.5/10). And the increase of ratings is staggering and unheard of. The whole series it was getting between 1-2 million viewers and increased due to the word of mouth to over 2M in seasons 4 and 5a, only to increase hugely this year with the final getting over 10M - almost 9M increase on tha season 4 final. The vast majority of long term shows decrease as it goes on especially int he final season so it's a testament to the level of quality BB had that it continually increased viewership by such a huge amount. The only shows I would put on the same level are The Sopranos, The Wire and The West Wing and all three of those shows went up and down in quality. The final season of the Wire was a huge let down especially after the incredible 4th.

The whole thing with McNultey faking the murders, Omar jumping off the building and the whole vendetta David Simon had with the newspaper as resulted in the show not being true to itself and the story it had told up to that point imo

. The Sopranos went up and down in quality at various points and had 'that' ending. The WW dipped big time after Sorkin left but did redeem itself with the election season. Breaking Bad is the only one where I got the impression the writers knew exactly where they were going the whole way through. The attention to detail, the incredible acting especially from Cranston (one of the best by an actor I have ever witnessed), the amazing direction and cinematography are unrivalled imo.

DazMarz

I watched the first season of Breaking Bad a couple of months ago, and was a bit underwhelmed. I don't know, it just didn't grab me.

Now, with all the hype surrounding it, I decided to give it another bash.

Wow. Is all I can say. I'm currently on the 11th episode of Season 2. I only started watching a couple of nights ago, by the way...

That's how addictive it has gotten for me. Yeah, thanks to my friends watching it and me catching some of the pieces of the show from them watching it, I kinda know what's coming and so on. It doesn't dilute the nature of the programme though. It is brilliant. Absolutely stunning piece of television.

Whether is will have a permanent effect upon the zeitgeist and paradigm of television as a whole remains to be seen.

I'm not even half through the whole series, and I would already rate it incredibly highly. Right up there amongst my favourite programmes already. Cranston is absolutely superb in his role. One of the towering performances of television history, right up there alongside Gandolfini in The Sopranos (and I'm one of the biggest Sopranos fans you'll find anywhere, so to compare ANYONE to the almost peerless Gandolfini is high praise from me).

Whether it becomes the game-changer that the OP is asking us, that's unclear yet. It's legacy is yet to be seen as the series' corpse isn't even cold yet. But one thing's for sure, it will be rightly held up as one of the best television shows of all time, right up there with The Sopranos, The Wire, Game Of Thrones, Frasier, The West Wing, etc. etc. etc.. It is not quite peerless, but it is up there, walking with giants.

A true modern classic... just my tuppence worth from someone who is 5 years behind in watching it.

EDIT: One thing that is interesting... they were only allowed to use the word "fúck" once per season... Check it out. It is actually true!!! There are only 2 utterances of "fúck" in the first 2 seasons anyway... don't know if it holds true in the others...

IvaBigWun

DazMarz wrote: »

EDIT: One thing that is interesting... they were only allowed to use the word "fúck" once per season... Check it out. It is actually true!!! There are only 2 utterances of "fúck" in the first 2 seasons anyway... don't know if it holds true in the others...

Considering it aired after 9pm on cable I find that hard to believe

evilivor

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Considering it aired after 9pm on cable I find that hard to believe

Vince Gilligan stated it a number of times that AMC only gave them one or two bleeped f-bombs per season.

DazMarz

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Considering it aired after 9pm on cable I find that hard to believe

I do too, but it's not something you'd notice unless you go looking for it. Once you start noticing it, there is virtually no use of the word "f*ck" in the show at all. It's weird considering the subject matter and setting and considering how other cable shows use it virtually once every second word...

The beginning of Breaking Bad wasn't great. It took until maybe the 2nd season to fully get into it's groove. The Shield is a show that stayed consistently good throughout, got better with each season, and

had possibly the most harrowing ending of any TV show

, thus ending extremely strongly.

don ramo

Deleted User wrote: »

The beginning of Breaking Bad wasn't great. It took until maybe the 2nd season to fully get into it's groove. The Shield is a show that stayed consistently good throughout, got better with each season, and

had possibly the most harrowing ending of any TV show

, thus ending extremely strongly.

as did breaking bad, its quality went up massively with each season, and it unquestionably went out at the very top of its game,

i do agree it didnt kick off till probably mid season 2, ive said it before that i initially stopped watching the show after 3 episode of season 1 as it didnt peak my interest, and i was convinced into watching it again when it was on season 3, best decision ive probably ever made concerning a tv show,

Ironman76

[Deleted User] wrote: »

. The Shield is a show that stayed consistently good throughout, got better with each season, and

had possibly the most harrowing ending of any TV show

, thus ending extremely strongly.

100% Agree. Brilliant show. Youre off and running from the very first episode. Season 5 with F Whittaker is just brilliant then a roller coaster final season. It's by far the most underrated TV show. Better than The Wire and BB by a mile.

Pushtrak

I think it really found its footing at the tail end of season 1, and just got better and better from there.