Tenant wants to change the rent "due date", after being late with previous month...

WIZE

I think you should send it via registered Post.

This should confirm that he has received it. As you want to cover yourself you will need proof that he has received it. The are too many excuses with email. Didnt get it , Spam folder , No longer use the email address, accidently deleted it an so on

Zulu

@djimi 14 days mightn't seem like a whole pile, but its 14 days is too long to risk.

sbsquarepants

ted1 wrote: »

I wouldn't entertain it. The way it is he is paying you once a month. Sounds like he is trying to avoid a month of paying you.

No he's not. Sounds like a simple cash flow/budgeting issue to me.
I've had to change several loan repayments etc over the years to suit when I got paid. I wasn't great at putting money by for this and for that so the easiest solution for me was get paid, pay all bills straight away and what's left is mine to do with as I see fit. It's still the way I do things.
Once you get a months rent every month, what does it matter what day you get it on?

djimi

Zulu wrote: »

@djimi 14 days mightn't seem like a whole pile, but its 14 days is too long to risk.

Its your call at the end of the day, but as a tenant I can say that if I asked my landlord for help as your tenant has done and they agreed and then turned around and started issuing notices of arrears etc, then I would not be in the slightest bit impressed. If I was the kind of tenant who was inclined to exploit the situation and stop paying rent, knowing that I can remain in the property virtually rent free until the PRTB sort themselves out a year down the line, then such a thing might be enough to tip me over the edge. Like I said, worst case scenario, but thats the risk that you take for souring the relationship, and all for very little gain in the grand scheme of things.

Each to their own, but its not how I would look to do things. If I make an agreement then I will stick to it to see it out.

Zulu

djimi wrote: »

Its your call at the end of the day, but as a tenant I can say that if I asked my landlord for help as your tenant has done and they agreed and then turned around and started issuing notices of arrears etc, then I would not be in the slightest bit impressed. If I was the kind of tenant
...

To be fair IF you were to be a prick, you'd be a prick. And I'd be best moving the whole thing along by 14 days where I can. I'm not going to pander to the potential of my tenant being a prick.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Once you get a months rent every month, what does it matter what day you get it on?

it matters a huge deal. I too need to pay rent. I too have bills and obligations to meet. Him delaying his payment means that I'm out of pocket for my mortgage, for my rent, and for my families living expenses. "What does it matter"? Sweet baby jesus :rolleyes:

H3llR4iser

There is one thing that is not clear through the thread: If I got it correctly, the tenant was halving the rent with his housemate and paying it roughly by the middle of the month. Now he says he can't pay the full rent, but could he pay the half he was paying before? That would effectively cover the remaining two weeks of the month and then on the 27th or 28th, after getting his salary, he can pay the full rent for the next month and start a new cycle from there.

If he can't pay "his half" now, then the issue is much deeper, would have happened even if his housemate was still there, and you'd be better off asking him to go.

sbsquarepants

Zulu wrote: »

it matters a huge deal. I too need to pay rent. I too have bills and obligations to meet. Him delaying his payment means that I'm out of pocket for my mortgage, for my rent, and for my families living expenses. "What does it matter"? Sweet baby jesus :rolleyes:

Calm down there!
It was a simple question. I assume you are being paid a month in advance, plus a security deposit? That's fairly standard. If so you already have 2 months or so rent in advance, so is a once off two week delay really the end of the world? You still get the same amount of rent for the same amount of renting. That is all I meant.
At the end of the day, if it doesn't suit you tell him no. But if you come on a discussion board and ask peoples opinions, you shouldn't really get all high and mighty when they give them to you!

whippet

in the landlord - tenant relationship in ireland the odds are almost always stacked in the favour of the tenant. The tenant is protected by both the PRTB and the horrendous amount of time that it takes for anything to get sorted.

In most decent areas there are plenty of willing tenants for decent properties; why waste your time or risk with one who is unable / unwilling to play by the rules.

After getting stung by rogue tenants I will not tolerate anything that isn't in the lease and so far so good for me. As a landlord there is far too much at risk to even entertain the possibility of being played for a fool.

In today's Ireland the typical landlord isn't the brandy swirling cigar smoking west-brit lording it over his subjects anymore - many are just ordinary folk trying to pay the bills to cover costs ..

djimi

Zulu wrote: »

it matters a huge deal. I too need to pay rent. I too have bills and obligations to meet. Him delaying his payment means that I'm out of pocket for my mortgage, for my rent, and for my families living expenses. "What does it matter"? Sweet baby jesus :rolleyes:

Then why did you agree to it? If it doesnt suit you you could have just said no, issued the 14 day notice of arrears and then 28 days notice of termination and be done with it.

Zulu

djimi wrote: »

Then why did you agree to it? If it doesnt suit you you could have just said no, issued the 14 day notice of arrears and then 28 days notice of termination and be done with it.

What choice do i have?

As it stands, I've agreed to it, & I've issued the 14 day notice. If he comes good, then ok I'll manage. If he doesn't I'll issue eviction notice. However, if I didn't agree to it, I'd be no different at this point (in that I'd be issuing notice and if he pays I wouldn't be able to evict).

seanie27

Does anyone have tenants who pay their rent over a period of weeks? My one is a head wreck. She's a single mother and always has some excuse and pays in dribs and drabs over the month period. one week the boyfriend and father of the child is gone and she has to reclaim some allowance the next he's moved back in and she has to correct something. One month she's not getting some allowance any more the next month she has to reapply for something else. She's always a sob story or some such crap. She even hasn't been organising the bins properly. She's been there nearly two years and recently only got the bins sorted as she'd been getting a skip to dump the domestic waste into. She claims to have no money yet you wouldn't believe the amount of takeaway cartons I see from Eddie Rockets, Dominos and chinese takeaways in her bins as they lay strewn around the back. She's also got a sky connection and recently take on a pet (without consulting me). I assume the pet is going to stink up the place though all the furniture is hers.
Any advice?

djimi

seanie27 wrote: »

Does anyone have tenants who pay their rent over a period of weeks? My one is a head wreck. She's a single mother and always has some excuse and pays in dribs and drabs over the month period. one week the boyfriend and father of the child is gone and she has to reclaim some allowance the next he's moved back in and she has to correct something. One month she's not getting some allowance any more the next month she has to reapply for something else. She's always a sob story or some such crap. She even hasn't been organising the bins properly. She's been there nearly two years and recently only got the bins sorted as she'd been getting a skip to dump the domestic waste into. She claims to have no money yet you wouldn't believe the amount of takeaway cartons I see from Eddie Rockets, Dominos and chinese takeaways in her bins as they lay strewn around the back. She's also got a sky connection and recently take on a pet (without consulting me). I assume the pet is going to stink up the place though all the furniture is hers.
Any advice?

If having the pet means that she is in breach of the lease then you could use that as a reason to move to terminate the lease.

Other than that all you can really do is continue to issue 14 day written notices of arrears whenever he rent is not paid in full and on time, and if she exceeds the 14 days then you can issue a 28 day notice of termination and evict her.

seanie27

djimi wrote: »

If having the pet means that she is in breach of the lease then you could use that as a reason to move to terminate the lease.

Other than that all you can really do is continue to issue 14 day written notices of arrears whenever he rent is not paid in full and on time, and if she exceeds the 14 days then you can issue a 28 day notice of termination and evict her.

Apologies just realised I put that question into this thread. Thought it was general and apologies to the OP.
Thanks for the advice.

beauf

What he said, go by the rules. And issue proper notice. Dribs and drabs means late to me.

beauf

Zulu wrote: »

...it matters a huge deal. I too need to pay rent. I too have bills and obligations to meet. Him delaying his payment means that I'm out of pocket for my mortgage, for my rent, and for my families living expenses. "What does it matter"? Sweet baby jesus :rolleyes:

Tenants overstaying or, leaving the LL out of pocket isn't uncommon. But I'm probably telling you something you already know.

Artful_Badger

Zulu wrote: »

Frankly I don't care if I come across as a "prick". I've been far too sound already. All he needs to do is pay his rent, which right now, he isn't doing.
I'm issuing an arrears letter. I'll tell him it's just a precaution to cover myself and he can ignore it as he's going to pay by the end of the month.

Ultimately we aren't friends, this is a business arrangement. I don 't see why I should continue to give; why I should continue to further expose myself. Fair is fair, and currently I'm the only one playing fair here.

You have just agreed to give him an extension on his rent. How then can you issue a letter demanding he pay withing 14 days ? Doesnt sound like you're playing fair here at all. Either give him his room to move or dont. Regardless of whether he pays when he says you will still have a right to evict the guy after 14 days if you issue that letter. Given you have stated your desire to get him out before issuing the letter perhaps you have lied to him to put yourself in a position to evict him ?

D3PO

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You have just agreed to give him an extension on his rent. How then can you issue a letter demanding he pay withing 14 days ? Doesnt sound like you're playing fair here at all. Either give him his room to move or dont. Regardless of whether he pays when he says you will still have a right to evict the guy after 14 days if you issue that letter. Given you have stated your desire to get him out before issuing the letter perhaps you have lied to him to put yourself in a position to evict him ?

That's not correct. If he pays before the end of the month like he has agreed to then he will have NO RIGHT to evict him nor does he have any intention to.

The OP is a landlord not a close personal friend of the tenants. I expect landlords to be professional.

That means knowing the rules and regulations about being a landlord, ensuring that the tenants rights are obeyed , that things are fixed in a timely manner when required to etc, but equally being professional means they should follow the appropriate steps to ensure there business interest in being managed in the appropriate fashion. Issuing a letter of arrears for late rent is just that.

I cant understand why tenants would get upset at the receipt of a letter of arrears. It simply states you have 14 days to clear them or eviction proceedings will begin.

If you intend to pay in the 14 days you should see if for what it is. The LL covering their back to ensure their goodwill isn't abused.

Artful_Badger

D3PO wrote: »

That's not correct. If he pays before the end of the month like he has agreed to then he will have NO RIGHT to evict him nor does he have any intention to.

The OP is a landlord not a close personal friend of the tenants. I expect landlords to be professional.

That means knowing the rules and regulations about being a landlord, ensuring that the tenants rights are obeyed , that things are fixed in a timely manner when required to etc, but equally being professional means they should follow the appropriate steps to ensure there business interest in being managed in the appropriate fashion. Issuing a letter of arrears for late rent is just that.

I cant understand why tenants would get upset at the receipt of a letter of arrears. It simply states you have 14 days to clear them or eviction proceedings will begin.

If you intend to pay in the 14 days you should see if for what it is. The LL covering their back to ensure their goodwill isn't abused.

I picked it up from statements from the LL about (protecting himself) as the tenant not paying due rent for another number of weeks. In that case the 14 days would be over before the arrears were cleared meaning that even though the LL had agreed about the late payment the tenant would have ignored the 14 days to clear the arrears. Putting the LL in the position to evict him if he was so inclined (which they have already mentioned because the tenant asked to change the due date of the rent).

There is no issue about receiving a letter about arrears, the issue is about a letter being issued to clear arrears a day after agreeing the date of payment putting the LL in a position to evict the tenant at his discretion.

If I have picked it up wrong though I apologise.

D3PO

the LL says tenant asked to pay 6 weeks towards the end of the month when they get paid which would be less than 14 days.

I don't think the OP has any intention to use this to evict unless the 6 weeks rent doesn't materialize.

brownej

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You have just agreed to give him an extension on his rent. How then can you issue a letter demanding he pay withing 14 days ? Doesnt sound like you're playing fair here at all. Either give him his room to move or dont. Regardless of whether he pays when he says you will still have a right to evict the guy after 14 days if you issue that letter. Given you have stated your desire to get him out before issuing the letter perhaps you have lied to him to put yourself in a position to evict him ?

I was wondering this too.
It appears that the OP has agreed to a change in the terms of the lease with regard to the date of paying the rent. As part of this change in the agreement the OP has agreed to accept 6 weeks rent at the end of the month to cover the areers.
Issusing a 14 day late payment letter in this case appears to be vindictive and deceitful on behalf of the Landlord as they have already agreed to accept the change to the lease agreement. If I was the tenant I would be very annoyed.

homerno

Zulu wrote: »

My tenant, who given the benefit of doubt appears ok. He was sharing with another, but they've moved out and he's now renting alone.
He was late with last months rent (the first month on his own). I didn't notice for a good while as I was lax checking. So when I noticed, I contacted him, and fair enough he promptly paid.

So I contacted him today to remind him the rent is due tomorrow. He's replied saying he wants to talk, that he's a bit broke and is looking to change the rent "due date" to the end of each month.

Should I entertain this? And if so, how should I manage it - charge him 1/2 a months rent now to take him up to the end of this month?
Or (as I'm inclined to think is best), tell him "no" & that he needs to stick to his lease conditions?

Opinions preferably from other LL's please.

hi everyone has their own ways to deal with it, i have read all the replies, as a landlord i think you have done it exactly right, prtb are worse than useless, aim to get him out asap , if he was a man he would have picked up the phone and explained to you his situation, hope it works out for you regards

Zulu

brownej wrote: »

Issusing a 14 day late payment letter in this case appears to be vindictive and deceitful on behalf of the Landlord as they have already agreed to accept the change to the lease agreement. If I was the tenant I would be very annoyed.

You understand what vindictive and deceitful mean right? I spoke to the tenant and explained why he was getting the letter.

I agreed that he can change the rent due date IF he pays the 6 weeks on time. This means that he's currently living there without having paid rent, and for the next two weeks, he won't have paid rent. Currently, as it stands, he's in arrears, hence the letter. So as it stands, he's not paying for 2 weeks (in arrears), then he's changing the due date.

If he pays up, he clears the arrears, and if he pays for a month in advance, we change the due date.
If he reneges, and it works out he's taking the piss, I issue a notice of eviction.

That is not deceitful and it is certainly not vindictive.

beauf

brownej wrote: »

...If I was the tenant I would be very annoyed.

Kinda hard to take the moral high ground if you've not paid your rent and not been keeping the LL informed.

brownej

beauf wrote: »

Kinda hard to take the moral high ground if you've not paid your rent and not been keeping the LL informed.

Its not really about moral high ground.
The OP came to an agreement with the tenant where the payment date for rent is changed.
After the agreement to change the date was made the OP then issued a late payment notice.
The tenant is not actually late with the rent as the due date has not passed.
the original payment date is no longer valid as the OP agreed to move it.

brownej

Zulu wrote: »

You understand what vindictive and deceitful mean right? I spoke to the tenant and explained why he was getting the letter.

I agreed that he can change the rent due date IF he pays the 6 weeks on time. This means that he's currently living there without having paid rent, and for the next two weeks, he won't have paid rent. Currently, as it stands, he's in arrears, hence the letter. So as it stands, he's not paying for 2 weeks (in arrears), then he's changing the due date.

If he pays up, he clears the arrears, and if he pays for a month in advance, we change the due date.
If he reneges, and it works out he's taking the piss, I issue a notice of eviction.

That is not deceitful and it is certainly not vindictive.

Technically he's not in areers as you agreed to change the payment date. Assuming the new payment date has not passed.
Did you agree to change the date so that you could then issue the tenant with a late payment notice? Did you tell the tennant that this would be the conseqence of moving the paymnet date.
If you did not do this then you did not give him ample opportunity to pay on time. The way you're describing the situation it appears that you have manipulated the situation in order to issue a penalty notice as you have decided you want to get rid of the tenant.
Sounds deceitful and vindictive to me.
Obviously if you communicated the consequences in advance of agreeing to the change in date then you are not being deceitful.

beauf

Rent is paid in advance. Its arrears if not paid in advance.

At the next payment date he will pay

2 weeks rent in arrears
4 week rent in advance

There should be a written notice of arrears. Its doing nobody any favours especially the tenant to string this out, by not issuing a formal letter. Besides if he couldn't pay 4 weeks, I think they are going to find it hard to pay 6 weeks.

djimi

brownej wrote: »

Its not really about moral high ground.
The OP came to an agreement with the tenant where the payment date for rent is changed.
After the agreement to change the date was made the OP then issued a late payment notice.
The tenant is not actually late with the rent as the due date has not passed.
the original payment date is no longer valid as the OP agreed to move it.

I agree with you on this, and if the tenant has any proof (written or otherwise) of the agreed change to the due date of the rent then the notice of arrears isnt going to mean anything legally (which could have a knock on affect if the OP wishes to issue a 28 notice of termination based on unpaid arrears), but Im guess the OP has tried to use the notice of arrears as a kick up the arse for the tenant to ensure that they pay in the time agreed. Its not what Id do; I believe that if you come to an agreement with someone then you take them at their word and dont start issuing warnings etc until the agreed date has passed, but each to their own.

beauf

Take someone at their word. Like paying the original rent on time.

So the tenant is late. Then late again. Now in arrears.

Its time to start recording this officially.

djimi

beauf wrote: »

Take someone at their word. Like paying the original rent on time.

So the tenant is late. Then late again. Now in arrears.

Its time to start recording this officially.

If you dont want them there then dont agree to the extension and move to evict.

The OP may have created a difficult sitaution for themselves if the tenant can prove that the OP agreed to move the rent date; technically the tenant is no longer in arrears and the notice of arrears is not valid.

beauf

The 200 is Rent in arrears.

If you make an agreement with someone put it in writing. otherwise they can just deny it happened. That they received no notice at all.