Greenfield kilkenny

Farmer Pudsey

5live wrote: »

You are forgetting the necessity of shutting down plants for a number of weeks each year for maintenance and upgrades, which is easier in seasonal plants than plants used year-round.

Overall, the 'idle time' is much lower than the 25% you mention, the figure i seem to recall is something like 10%, with the added benefit of being able to do a bigger maintenance by having some plants on full drying cycle while another can be shut down for repairs when needed.

This is usually not an issue with most processor having multiple plants or access to other faculities they can stage maintenance during low volume period (late Nov to Mid Feb). However they will want plants working at a certain level from February to November. There issue is having enough volume from Feb-Apr and Sept-Nov to justify peak demand in May-July. The bonus structure are already in place and these will only increase. A 1c/L bonus on an 80 cow herd (producing 500K L) is 5K.

maxxuumman

Most pharma plants can do a full shutdown maintaince in 2 weeks every year. I'm sure the dairy processors could do a lot with 4 or 5 weeks around Christmas.

jack o shea

greenfields cows wont be bursting with milk in the morning anyway,another disgusting night to have an animal out never mind 300 of them.

darragh_haven

jack o shea wrote: »

greenfields cows wont be bursting with milk in the morning anyway,another disgusting night to have an animal out never mind 300 of them.

Jesus jack, have you anything constructive to say other the whole place is in sh1te

jack o shea

not really anything positive to say about that place,they dont know what they are doing,they should get david moyes in to manage it and finish it off altogether.

Greengrass1

jack o shea wrote: »

not really anything positive to say about that place,they dont know what they are doing,they should get david moyes in to manage it and finish it off altogether.[/
Try start a farm from scratch and see how you get on. And put all your figures up so every farmer can scrutinise.
Not as easy as you think especially if you have ever tom dick and harry grousing and bitching about how you run it
You wouldn't be long throwing in the towel

mf240

darragh_haven wrote: »

Jesus jack, have you anything constructive to say other the whole place is in sh1te

What do you want him to say? I can't think of anything positive either,

I say they may go once a day milking before long.

jack o shea

well greengrass one of the first things i would do if starting from scratch would be to build a big shed with cubicles and a roof believe it or not and also a silage pit would be handy.

cute geoge

Imo the big problem if this sh ty weather prolongs is there wont be enough grass for the cows .In my own case I will be lucky to get cows out by mid/late march even though I have fields of grass so I am depending on good quality bales and meal.i still wont be able to satify cows though compared to grass I only have 50 cows so what in yer opinion should I be feeding to make up the energy ?
Would sugar beet be a consideration if available

Greengrass1

jack o shea wrote: »

well greengrass one of the first things i would do if starting from scratch would be to build a big shed with cubicles and a roof believe it or not and also a silage pit would be handy.

Good man. Are you a million are.
If they had of built a shed the project would have failed.
Plenty of farmers in the country with stand off pads

Timmaay

cute geoge wrote: »

Imo the big problem if this sh ty weather prolongs is there wont be enough grass for the cows .In my own case I will be lucky to get cows out by mid/late march even though I have fields of grass so I am depending on good quality bales and meal.i still wont be able to satify cows though compared to grass I only have 50 cows so what in yer opinion should I be feeding to make up the energy ?
Would sugar beet be a consideration if available

Soya hulls, ration and stretch out your fodder would be the best bet in my view. If you can get sugar beef for a competitive price then do by all means, just be careful about overfeeding it to the cows.

And just how wet is your land? Can you graze any of it at all, plenty of tricks out there, multiple entrances/exits, strip grazing, backing fences etc etc, to minimise damage. I know for some farms its not an option, but worth having a walk of the farm and at least seeing if there are any paddocks you could graze out.

jack o shea

well it shouldnt have went ahead so greengrass if they hadnt the money to put a shed in. would you set up a shop with no building or a pub or anything else for that matter? its ireland we get 6 month winters madness thinking cows can stay outdoors 12 months of the year,

mf240

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Good man. Are you a million are.
If they had of built a shed the project would have failed.
Plenty of farmers in the country with stand off pads

Would it have failed?

Let's take the cost of a cubicle shed with second hand / cubicles /pillors/sheeting.

Scrapped into lagoon thats needed anyway,

Then you have savings on Woodchips, savings on waste silage from getting wet,
the revenue lost by not being able to milk on when cows are housed by not being able to milk of stand off pad, less rainwater to be spread, and let's not forget the initial cost of digging the stand of pad and all the chippings that were needed, not that much extra to have a bit of comfort,

and if you had a shed you could milk holsteins instead of jerseys,

darragh_haven

mf240 wrote: »

What do you want him to say? I can't think of anything positive either,

I say they may go once a day milking before long.

Big difference between "positive" and "constructive"

Just to point out, I don't agree with the way things are done there but just saying the place is in sh1te doesn't add anything to the discussion

Markcheese

jack o shea wrote: »

well it shouldnt have went ahead so greengrass if they hadnt the money to put a shed in. would you set up a shop with no building or a pub or anything else for that matter? its ireland we get 6 month winters madness thinking cows can stay outdoors 12 months of the year,

So just put another moorepark in Kilkenny so ??
It's an experiment ... There's more to life
than sheds and concrete...
They won't get it all right , they mightn't even get most of it right, but people can take from it what they need...
Even if it proves to some that you need a big shed...

keep going

The gas thing jack is the cows do just fine on pads in fact probably happier than lying on cubicles just you cant milk on them. Mind you theres a guy near us has one and he came third in quality awards lately

Farmer Pudsey

jack o shea wrote: »

well it shouldnt have went ahead so greengrass if they hadnt the money to put a shed in. would you set up a shop with no building or a pub or anything else for that matter? its ireland we get 6 month winters madness thinking cows can stay outdoors 12 months of the year,

TBH jack cattle are designed to be out doors, the issue with the pad is not how the cows are treated is that is it feasible to run such a project longterm. Is it doable for a farmer starting up. My own opinion is that they are so caught up in a low cost operation that they have failed to look at what is profitable.

They are failing to adapt to Irish weather conditions. Because of present weather most farmers are taking corrective action so as to preserve land and cattle until weather changes. Long term will there cull rate remain the same and will milk quality and peak-shoulders ratio be sufficient to achieve milk bonus post 2015.

My other issue is that this application more than likly not a runner along the west coast however with modification it may be doable for conversion from tillage/suckler along the east coast. However will someone that never being involved in dairying be capable of running such an operation and if they could would it be sustainable for 10-15 years.

I wonder could JK calve cows on the pad, haul ton's of nuts to cows, would a lad in his early twenty have the skill set to manage the way finances and demand changes in this operation. I have often seen cattle feeding around a feeder and by july they are a totally different animal

jack o shea

of course cows and cattle would rather be out all year but that aint possible in one of the wettest dullest coldest places on the planet, so therefore the better indoor facilities you have the better the welfare of the animals in this country,in 2012 animals were housed in june july and august it aint possible survive without sheds and concrete in ireland, them cows would be better off been looked after properly on other farmers lands, they can do what they like with the land at greenfields then.

Greengrass1

jack o shea wrote: »

well it shouldnt have went ahead so greengrass if they hadnt the money to put a shed in. would you set up a shop with no building or a pub or anything else for that matter? its ireland we get 6 month winters madness thinking cows can stay outdoors 12 months of the year,

If every farmer in Ireland took that view no one would expand.
What's more important, good grass and roadways or a shed that will sit there for 9 months of the year.

Its a trial and it is there to show how hard it is to get into milk from scratch and it is very hard.

Your the same as all the ould lads around me.
Only see of doing things one way and if you can't do it your way every one else is wrong.

The pad isn't ideal and I know that, we all know that so give it a rest.

Ye can't have everything day one

Farmer Pudsey

jack o shea wrote: »

of course cows and cattle would rather be out all year but that aint possible in one of the wettest dullest coldest places on the planet, so therefore the better indoor facilities you have the better the welfare of the animals in this country,in 2012 animals were housed in june july and august it aint possible survive without sheds and concrete in ireland, them cows would be better off been looked after properly on other farmers lands, they can do what they like with the land at greenfields then.

The reason i advacote housing has nothing to do with animal comfort. IMO If you had cows with access to a pad and a shed they would spend most of the time on the pad, as in about 95%+ of the time. OC cubicles are much the same. I have seen calves that are only a few day old spend nearly all the time outside except when they go into feed.

The real issue is will a shed add enough flexibility to system to justify cost. Will it give you better quality milk at the shoulders of the year. Will a more balanced diet pay for itself by improving fertility, cull rate's, and milk peak yo shoulders ratio. Will you get better economic value from your slurry and will the government change the nitrates value of water slurry down the line. The reason cows were housed so much in 2012 was as more lack of grass than the physical issue of weather.

You are like a dog with a bone you cannot see beyond the bone and growl when anyone touches it.

Gillespy

If ever a thread has run its course. It's a trial, it's an experiment, give them all the awards for their bravery and candidness. Can we knock this idea that cows want to be outdoors on the head for good, they don't. Last summer with hard ground with sunshine on their backs, yes they love it. Not tonight. It's the same thing as saying all grass is equal, it isn't. As with outdoor cubicles, cows can't be milked off pads. So that's that. Remember I'm currently sans some of the dry cow roof and guess what, they're always wet and the cows are after getting noticeably dirtier since.

2012 was wet all summer if you remember. So much milk came out of the shed that year, from around July until May 2013 bar a few weeks here and there.

jack o shea

no greengrass its greenfields that are wrong, maybe the old lads around you have more experience and know what works and what doesnt. and pudsey dont know what part of the country you are in but around me in "summer" 2012 there was plenty of grass but 6 inches of water on top of it so without sheds that year the cows would have had to be sold.

keep going

I've 18 dry cows grazing turnips up on a cold b#t#h of a hill and I was up there yeesterday and the cows were actually shivering as they eating the turnips but the thing is they are doing fine and have actually putting on condition.me on the orther hand I was frozen

Farmer Pudsey

jack o shea wrote: »

no greengrass its greenfields that are wrong, maybe the old lads around you have more experience and know what works and what doesnt. and pudsey dont know what part of the country you are in but around me in "summer" 2012 there was plenty of grass but 6 inches of water on top of it so without sheds that year the cows would have had to be sold.

This is a point I am trying to make all the time different parts of the country need different applications, However it has little to do with what a cow is able to withstand. For instance IMO Greenfields is not really applicable along the west coast. The real issue is even along the east coast will a traditional shed type arrangement be more profitable because of it flexability,

kevthegaff

Lads from the video the paddocks that were grazed looked grand and that was after heavy rainfall, i like what theyre doing(i wouldnt agree with the stand off pad or no meal feeders but it is interesting nontheless. Its a great example to a new entrant as it shows the positives and pitfalls of a startup(and it wil save lads a lot of money who were going to put in stand offs!)The figures are there for everyone to see, i had troube with cell count starting up. Not every set up is gona run like clock work.

John_F

posting this again for greengrass and markcheese

John_F wrote: »

experiment?? see here http://www.greenfielddairy.ie/node/82


The Greenfield Dairy Programme falls into three portfolios: development, extension and communication which include:

• The demonstration of best practice in conversion of a Greenfield site into a fully functional dairy farm.
• To establish commercially focused expanding family farms demonstrating financially rewarding business growth.
• To provide support to help new entrants acquire the necessary technology to develop profitable dairy farming businesses
• To hold regular farm focus days to provide timely, accurate and challenging information to help decision making.
• To provide guidance in the design, construction and operation of new low cost grass-based dairy farm infrastructure
• Inform the dairy industry about activities and innovations in dairying

from that they are about best practice, commercially viable, be leaders in innovation and all that jazz.

if it was an experiment there would be a comparative system of production using high input and high output.even a collaboration with dairyco or dardni and have a farm in the north would have done in my view. it is not an experiment, this is (as from above) to show everyone what to do in a post quota environment as a new entrant on a greenfield site. not showing people what not to do. you can say its by mistakes we learn. . . but . . .

Markcheese wrote: »

So just put another moorepark in Kilkenny so ??
It's an experiment ... There's more to life
than sheds and concrete...
They won't get it all right , they mightn't even get most of it right, but people can take from it what they need...
Even if it proves to some that you need a big shed...

Greengrass1 wrote: »

If every farmer in Ireland took that view no one would expand.
What's more important, good grass and roadways or a shed that will sit there for 9 months of the year.

Its a trial and it is there to show how hard it is to get into milk from scratch and it is very hard.

Your the same as all the ould lads around me.
Only see of doing things one way and if you can't do it your way every one else is wrong.

The pad isn't ideal and I know that, we all know that so give it a rest.

Ye can't have everything day one

its neither a trial or an experiment, its to be run as a commercial farm demonstrating best practice which farmers (new entrants more than anyone) are to see as the only way to do it.
Thing is most tillage men (who are the people with good blocks of land dairy farmers dream of) wouldn't even dream of milking a cow, spoke to a tillage man one time who said he wouldn't do dairying for love nor money. its a totally different life!
Any other new entrants will be greatly limited by land, very few will have a significant milking block / platform comparable with kilkenny greenfield farm so probably will (should in my view) have Holstein animals that will deliver in a small herd.

mahoney_j

John_F wrote: »

posting this again for greengrass and markcheese







its neither a trial or an experiment, its to be run as a commercial farm demonstrating best practice which farmers (new entrants more than anyone) are to see as the only way to do it.
Thing is most tillage men (who are the people with good blocks of land dairy farmers dream of) wouldn't even dream of milking a cow, spoke to a tillage man one time who said he wouldn't do dairying for love nor money. its a totally different life!
Any other new entrants will be greatly limited by land, very few will have a significant milking block / platform comparable with kilkenny greenfield farm so probably will (should in my view) have Holstein animals that will deliver in a small herd.

Fully agree john,in sick and tired of beating my drum re greenfield.sime of us here see it for what it really is and quite rightly question management practices whilst others think it's the muts nuts.last time I'll mention this but management of milkers there the last few weeks there leaves a lot to be desired and the long term affects on poached paddocks ,cow production and fertility will come back to bite them over next few weeks.they just never seem to learn from their mistakes and are hell bent on proving you can farm kiwi style all year in this country which u simply cannot

F.D

In reality would there be many new entrants that have not got some facilitys?

be it from a suckler/beef and maybe less so tillage
the country is polluted with sheds of all shapes and sizes
in our case what we would spend on putting in a pad would convert most of our shed into cubicles and slurry storage

and i dont see to many 300 acre blocks of land coming up for sale or rent around me either, not that they exist in the first place

Greenfields if it was to be any inspiration for a new entrant should have been based on a herd of max 100 cows or 100 acre farm and see if it works then

case 956

this is Ireland lads and sooner jack kennedy, teagasc and who ever else needs be told it IRELAND where we have high rainfall, wind and limited grazing around parlours. New Zealand is ooo's miles away, jerseys, Pads and kiwi farming belong miles away, we need sheds, good Friesian cows deliever solids and volume for our limited grazing, we have to practice every method we can in spring and autumn to prevent poaching, FFS the sooner ads wake up and relise there in Ireland and forget about new Zealand the better, you don't you uk or French farmer going on about the kiwi system like our teagasc boys... Greenfields is a farse, they are trialing one system instead of 4 systems, ie low cost jersey cross, high cost jersey cross, low cost Friesian and high cost friesian

5live

keep going wrote: »

I've 18 dry cows grazing turnips up on a cold b#t#h of a hill and I was up there yeesterday and the cows were actually shivering as they eating the turnips but the thing is they are doing fine and have actually putting on condition.me on the orther hand I was frozen

Follow the cows example.

A big feed of turnips before you go up and you will be thriving too;)

kevthegaff

i wonder do any of the IFJ lads read these posts??

Greengrass1

Your all forgetting they had limited funds to start out with.
If they had not of put in road ways and cows were talking through muck all day you would be giving out that they built a shed.
They have encountered every possible obstical there-staph aurus, phosphate deficiency and as a result poor conception rates.
I know how hard it is more than a lot of people.
We started here 10 yrsago this may and have stood still due to the same problems.
Have been bedding cows all winter every winter and ye do get sick of it but ye have to keep going.

If they had not have banked all that money in the second year. Last year and the year before would have finished them off.

Its very easy to criticise but go and try set up a new farm by buying cows and have no buildings and see how far you get with a bank loan

F.D

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Your all forgetting they had limited funds to start out with.
If they had not of put in road ways and cows were talking through muck all day you would be giving out that they built a shed.
They have encountered every possible obstical there-staph aurus, phosphate deficiency and as a result poor conception rates.
I know how hard it is more than a lot of people.
We started here 10 yrsago this may and have stood still due to the same problems.
Have been bedding cows all winter every winter and ye do get sick of it but ye have to keep going.

If they had not have banked all that money in the second year. Last year and the year before would have finished them off.

Its very easy to criticise but go and try set up a new farm by buying cows and have no buildings and see how far you get with a bank loan

yes but back to my earlier question.... why so big ?? this does not reflect the average farm size in ireland where the possible new entrants will come from, any one with that sort of acerage is either well established at tillage or running a dairy herd as it is,
Do people think everyone is going to rent the land to one fella to make one massive block of land, i don't.
they would rather plant it than give it to you. no new entrant could even imagine getting that sort of set up or money to start with

Greengrass1

F.D wrote: »

yes but back to my earlier question.... why so big ?? this does not reflect the average farm size in ireland where the possible new entrants will come from, any one with that sort of acerage is either well established at tillage or running a dairy herd as it is,
Do people think everyone is going to rent the land to one fella to make one massive block of land, i don't.
they would rather plant it than give it to you. no new entrant could even imagine getting that sort of set up or money to start with

Well for one they were trying to prove that it could be done from scrath , which is very hard and not possible IMO.
And at the time a lot of lads were building up to that scale.
I think its just the fact that they were looking for land and that was the beeest block. They had looked at numerous other farms I believe.

maxxuumman

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Your all forgetting they had limited funds to start out with.
If they had not of put in road ways and cows were talking through muck all day you would be giving out that they built a shed.
They have encountered every possible obstical there-staph aurus, phosphate deficiency and as a result poor conception rates.
I know how hard it is more than a lot of people.
We started here 10 yrsago this may and have stood still due to the same problems.
Have been bedding cows all winter every winter and ye do get sick of it but ye have to keep going.

If they had not have banked all that money in the second year. Last year and the year before would have finished them off.

Its very easy to criticise but go and try set up a new farm by buying cows and have no buildings and see how far you get with a bank loan

Greengrass, it can be done. It was done here. Started 12 yrs ago with just the block of land. No sheds, stock, quota etc. old pasture and big P and K problems. No external money and I had never milked a cow before! ( ignorance was bliss)
This place (and it's owner) were as greenfield as it gets.
It was far from easy but it can be done.
The greenfields project was off to a bad start day one
1. Before it was even started, it was being hailed as the new way to dairy farm in Ireland. Without being tried a tested IFJ undermined generations of dairy farming methods.
2. Questions over purchase prices of equipment, meant that the figures and project were questionable from day on.
3. As another poster said, why so big. It's been flagged for a long time, that farm sizes were the biggest issue facing the future of farming. A real project would be a greenfield site of 100-120 acres and produce a very high return /acre
4. The plan that they came up with day 1 isn't producing anything spectacular. At this point they are no longer showing us an viable enterprise. Ie if a person was to try and set up a greenfield site for themselves, they would be using a lot of the existing greenfields template but adding OCs and parlour feeders and a lower stocking rate.
5. That have showed us that their system is a failure. So it's time to move on, make the improvements ( we all know what needs to be done) and start making progress again.
6. That system is not sustainable. The majority of farms in Ireland, are the family farms. Farm owners, that are their own boss,!that farm as much for "way of living" as for making money. No one would setup that system on their own farm for a life time of drudgery.

I'm not knocking greenfield, I'm very much for progress. But they have proved, what a lot of people had thought, it won't work. Now they need to show that with some minor changes, come off their high horse, make the place applicable to ireland, and it could be a very successful project

Farmer Pudsey

TBH if they had split the Greenfield site into 2-3 different farms. Opted for 80 cow herds (about the optimun for one labour unit) and did one on the present model, a high cost high output model and a middle of the road option wew would have a much better experment.

However this was driven by trhe idea that we could replicate everything NZ. There biggest issue now is that they are failing to adapt to conditions. I have a dry farm, looking at weatherforecast I am looking at 50mm of rain over next 10 days, from the Met Eireann site ground temperature is still falling. This is not rocket science it is just using available information. Normally would have 2 year old out this weekend (about 60% of stock) at present am begining to think that they will still be inside on St Patricks day.

Greenfields have access to exactly the same information it is about time they started to use it and stopped going around with either there head in there ar5e or in the sand sorry cattle pad.

jack o shea

Dont know why anyone would listen or try copy the greenfields/farmers journal/teagasc rubbish in the first place, you know your own farm best, so what if you dont have the cows out til paddys day or the 1st of april,who gives a ****,you will have a better farm and hopefully loads of grass for the summer.

bogman_bass

Do you know your farm best or just have a problem with other people telling you what to do?

Farmer Pudsey

I wonder di Del register as Jack o shea before he closed his other account

jack o shea

oh well sat is first of march i better hurry on and let them graze 30 % asap, this is the bull**** lads are listening to from the office "expert farmers". better find some lifejackets for the cows first tho.

mahoney_j

jack o shea wrote: »

oh well sat is first of march i better hurry on and let them graze 30 % asap, this is the bull**** lads are listening to from the office "expert farmers". better find some lifejackets for the cows first tho.

Go on jack tell us ur grand plan so.have u anything constructive to say.

biddy2013

jack o shea wrote: »

oh well sat is first of march i better hurry on and let them graze 30 % asap, this is the bull**** lads are listening to from the office "expert farmers". better find some lifejackets for the cows first tho.

in fairness i agree with what you are saying, each farmer knows their own farm and does what they can to suit their own situation. Fine and dandy what tom,dick or harry are doing down the road might suit their farm but this doesnt mean it will work for you. Same as people having cows out in January etc . No one is making anyone copy what is being done in greenfields, it is interesting to see what other people do and see how it pans out for them

Farmer Pudsey

mahoney_j wrote: »

Go on jack tell us ur grand plan so.have u anything constructive to say.

Reminds me of another young lad that was on a few weeks ago. he used to finish 200 charley bulls and milk I do not know how many cows in a state of the art operation. Kew the value of everythinh and the price of nothing

jack o shea

no master plan at all mahoney, let them out when its dry enough, leave them in when its too wet.

biddy2013

bogman_bass wrote: »

Do you know your farm best or just have a problem with other people telling you what to do?

had a rep here yesterday as i was lifting a downer heifer, he was going on, she is fooked, ring the knacker, you made a mess of her etc... you know yourself when to listen to people and when to shut your ears

Timmaay

Ha ffs I hate when reps cold call ya at the best of times, if I'm busy I'll be extremely blunt with them that I don't have time, and will call myself them if I need anything.

charleysurf

been following this thread for a while so said I'd finally make a contribution. as far as I can remember the original idea was for Kilkenny to be one of 3 greenfield farms that were to be set up. the others were shinagh in bandon west cork which was a beef conversion and another in the west which I'm not sure ever got the final go ahead. the farm in bandon for example converted a beef shed into a cubicle house but other than that its almost an exact replica of the Kilkenny farm in terms of cow type, size and management but minus the publicity of the ifj. there are no feeders in the parlour and the main emphasis is on utilisation just like Kilkenny. should the viability of this farm not be scrutinised along with Kilkenny?. as far as the reasons for having these farms, maybe teagasc is finally trying to put into practice what they've been preaching for years on a commercial farm. for over a decade they've been doing comparison trials between breeds and systems in moorepark and continue to do them there, so why do the exact same in these new farms.

while I don't want to get embroiled in the owp debate (wouldn't be in favour of the personally) I would imagine that local weather patterns were taken into account when they decided to go that direction. the 10 years for example prior to them building the pad mightn't have had one spring this wet so I'd wager they gambled that they could get away with one, given their start up budget. but look on the bright side of it, a pad which teagasc has been promoting for years has been shown up when they tested it on a large scale on their commercial farm. isn't that a benefit already of this project?

jack o shea

my concern has been the cows,would anybody here have liked to have had their own herd out for every minute of this horrid winter? i personally couldnt give a toss about the staff or who loses money out of this,or the likes of the farmers journal looking like a bunch of clowns or whatever.

td5man

biddy2013 wrote: »

had a rep here yesterday as i was lifting a downer heifer, he was going on, she is fooked, ring the knacker, you made a mess of her etc... you know yourself when to listen to people and when to shut your ears

That rep will not have a job for long if he said all that to you must have f&%k all communication skills.

just do it

Welcome on board Charliesurf

Interesting point you make. Pity we don't here about the Bandon farm. Is it fully operational? Unlike teagasc to keep it quiet. Also dissapointing they didn't set one up in the west in a heavy rainfall area. Then you've the vast majority of farm types in the country covered. Data from them would then be comparable and of great value.