Greenfield kilkenny

RedPeppers

Mixed results here all heifers (11/11) kept to 1st service Ai scanned to calf mid Feb next year. Main herd went very well to start with but the last 8-10 cows have been a right pain, use all AI. Milk urea here high twenties low thirties consistently Cows getting 4-5kg here all summer

pedigree 6

yewtree wrote: »

I would respectfully disagree i just dont see the evidence a few cows in a herd repeating isnt rock solid to me. The same herds every year have good fertility. There is certain amount of embroyic death (5-10%) for various reasons. Is there any more than that this year?

More the nut that turns the screw then.

Managing a herd is about knowing and seeing what's happening and adapting.

Take out the managers of those same herds and put someone less adaptable and less vision on what's occurring and see what happens.

yosemitesam1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

More the nut that turns the screw then.

Managing a herd is about knowing and seeing what's happening and adapting.

Take out the managers of those same herds and put someone less adaptable and less vision on what's occurring and see what happens.

The heritability of fertility is something tiny, I think its around 2 to 5%.. That means that over 95% of the difference in calving intervals is down to management and other environment influences.
Weather and soil conditions are so variable a lot of their effects will never be visible across wide areas

mycro2013

Is there any update on this project to date. As much as lads disagree about its merits, it does offer a different narrative. Seems to be nothing in the journal to date about it and jack Kennedy seems to be after going off the journals radar with no articles or yearly round up to date.

whelan2

mycro2013 wrote: »

Is there any update on this project to date. As much as lads disagree about its merits, it does offer a different narrative. Seems to be nothing in the journal to date about it and jack Kennedy seems to be after going off the journals radar with no articles or yearly round up to date.

Buford normally posts the weekly updates from twitter on the dairy thread. There have been a few since Christmas

Buford T. Justice XIX

Tbh, I never thought of this thread but here's the latest one
https://twitter.com/dfogarty6/status/1099730560166047745?s=19

K9

on the journal websitel they were saying had a good few still born calves 7%. Reckon feeding palm kernel to the drys could be the cause of it.

jaymla627

K9 wrote: »

on the journal websitel they were saying had a good few still born calves 7%. Reckon feeding palm kernel to the drys could be the cause of it.

That picture of the silage slab, in the article would suggest listeriosis from feeding ropey silage but a “well run outfit” like that needs to deflect attention away from itself

Aravo

Is Greenfield farm coming to an end. Glanbia seem to be pulling plant.

alps

Aravo wrote: »

Is Greenfield farm coming to an end. Glanbia seem to be pulling plant.

No....

Glanbia have enough of it and want out...

Phelans want to "run it themselves"

IFJ thumbsuvking wondering WTF just happened...

Cows will probably never even know all this hullabaloo ever happened and will just end up with a roof over their cubicles

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

No....

Glanbia have enough of it and want out...

Phelans want to "run it themselves"

IFJ thumbsuvking wondering WTF just happened...

Cows will probably never even know all this hullabaloo ever happened and will just end up with a roof over their cubicles

I doubt it will be as simple as that, alps. Glanbia are breaking a contract and there are procedures to follow and penalties to be applied, I imagine, as a discouragement to all parties for pulling out early.

There's talk of a group of farmers interested in taking Glanbias place so it's early days yet. There's 5 more years left in the agreement and those years were projected to be where the majority of cash surplus would be generated so both other parties would be entitled to some compensation, I'd say. Unless all sides want it to stop?

Mooooo

Is the finance term the same length as the project was supposed to last? If so I assume that would have to be cleared first

jaymla627

alps wrote: »

No....

Glanbia have enough of it and want out...

Phelans want to "run it themselves"

IFJ thumbsuvking wondering WTF just happened...

Cows will probably never even know all this hullabaloo ever happened and will just end up with a roof over their cubicles

Mooooo wrote: »

Is the finance term the same length as the project was supposed to last? If so I assume that would have to be cleared first

Yes, 87,000 euro a year needed till end of lease agreement to meet repayments, glanbia originally only put in 120,000 euro day one, noting to stop other two parties buying out their share and continuing as is

Markcheese

Anyone know why glanbia want out at this stage?

dzer2

Markcheese wrote: »

Anyone know why glanbia want out at this stage?

Savage cut in the price of milk coming down the road:cool:

dar31

dzer2 wrote: »

Savage cut in the price of milk coming down the road:cool:

Any reason, or are you just saying?

Timmaay

dzer2 wrote: »

Savage cut in the price of milk coming down the road:cool:

Actually another disadvantage to the current setup is that the greenfield is not allowed to be a coop shareholder, so they do not and have never had access to any of the coop top ups etc on the milk. I'm not sure what this comes to on average, but would be up to 2c in some month's. If its 1c/l that's 15k on their 1.5million litres supplied per Yr.

dzer2

dar31 wrote: »

Any reason, or are you just saying?

Serious amount of milk powder and whey powder stored all over the country.
Can see a glut coming

I don't milk but drive for a few transport companies loads of warehouses full.

whelan2

Only reading the journal there at breakfast. On the letters page most of them are about glanbia

Mortelaro

dzer2 wrote: »

Serious amount of milk powder and whey powder stored all over the country.
Can see a glut coming

I don't milk but drive for a few transport companies loads of warehouses full.

It'd be worse if they were empty

dzer2

Mortelaro wrote: »

It'd be worse if they were empty

OK
You don't remember the butter or meat mountains. All had to be given away eventually.

Markcheese

Timmaay wrote: »

Actually another disadvantage to the current setup is that the greenfield is not allowed to be a coop shareholder, so they do not and have never had access to any of the coop top ups etc on the milk. I'm not sure what this comes to on average, but would be up to 2c in some month's. If its 1c/l that's 15k on their 1.5million litres supplied per Yr.

Wouldn't that be a slight advantage to glanbia?
As in they make an extra 15k a year by not having to pay a top up, (doubt it'd swing it either way),
Could see it suiting the land owners to end early, as they get a fully functioning dairy unit, (probably for not much more than the price of the stock), although they currently get the land rental, (tax free? ) without lifting a finger....

Mortelaro

To be fair Its probably a bit much to be worried about Greenfield not getting the cookie jar when its every need otherwise has been backed up by three A or triple A rated entities
I think that's been a bit...more assistance than any aul bit from a cookie jar

Mortelaro

dzer2 wrote: »

OK
You don't remember the butter or meat mountains. All had to be given away eventually.

I do
And I remember being paid more for my milk then than now

Mooooo

Could be an opportunity for the lad there as well perhaps

Joe Daly

dzer2 wrote: »

Serious amount of milk powder and whey powder stored all over the country.
Can see a glut coming

I don't milk but drive for a few transport companies loads of warehouses full.

Bergins in kilkenny payed on the double hauling storing for Glanbia in there warehouse.

alps

Mortelaro wrote: »

I do
And I remember being paid more for my milk then than now

What purchaser was that? We were getting 70 pence per gallon in March 1983 while we got IR£1.21 in March 2019...

Mortelaro

alps wrote: »

What purchaser was that? We were getting 70 pence per gallon in March 1983 while we got IR£1.21 in March 2019...

Premier dairies
Well over a punt a gallon several times in the 80’s (below that of course too) but irrespective of mountains
That’s well over €1.50 a gallon at times corrected for today’s value
In fairness not beating the 51c/ l got here a couple of years ago but in a very different cost regime

Buford T. Justice XIX

There's an open day in Greenfields on the 28th May this year.

Aravo

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

There's an open day in Greenfields on the 28th May this year.

That's a bit away yet. Prob unlikely to take place.

dar31

Aravo wrote: »

That's a bit away yet. Prob unlikely to take place.

I do hope that's not the case.

I'll be going as a show of support for the project

Buford T. Justice XIX

dar31 wrote: »

I do hope that's not the case.

I'll be going as a show of support for the project

I'm hoping to go but I have a few open days later this month to go to so might have to miss out.

Gawddawggonnit

Looking from the outside in, because unfortunately I never made the time to go see Greenfield in person, the project was aimed at your typical ‘push tillage farmer off land and start dairy on the cheap’ scenario.
To me the beauty of the trial was the simplicity and replicability. Set up a herd on a block of land and move onto the next block, and keep repeating the project.

Glanbia do have a lot of questions to answer. They need to provide explanations with the same clarity and openness that the whole project was run on...

whelan2

From Glanbia connect website https://www.glanbiaconnect.com/news/greenfield-farm-update

kerry cow

it's all well and good having a brilliant idea on paper but to make it on the ground is another story , don't get me wrong but it just goes to show what we as full time dairy farmers face on a daily basis trying to make a living from our work , it's not all plain sailing , one year we have money in the bank , next year for a variety of any reasons outside our control our finances are under the bus , yet we need to live and struggle on to next year ,which we hope will be better ,
if anything I hope this project has shown our processors , banks and Teagasc that farming is a grind , a lifestyle choice and a bare living .
and on a side note the famous backing the brave , AIB , have pulled the rug on many a good family farm who also struggle to achieve their goals of paying their way ,

it's not easy

kevthegaff

whelan2 wrote: »

From Glanbia connect website https://www.glanbiaconnect.com/news/greenfield-farm-update

No real reason, ended with grass based model is the best

jaymla627

kerry cow wrote: »

it's all well and good having a brilliant idea on paper but to make it on the ground is another story , don't get me wrong but it just goes to show what we as full time dairy farmers face on a daily basis trying to make a living from our work , it's not all plain sailing , one year we have money in the bank , next year for a variety of any reasons outside our control our finances are under the bus , yet we need to live and struggle on to next year ,which we hope will be better ,
if anything I hope this project has shown our processors , banks and Teagasc that farming is a grind , a lifestyle choice and a bare living .
and on a side note the famous backing the brave , AIB , have pulled the rug on many a good family farm who also struggle to achieve their goals of paying their way ,

it's not easy

The cycle Irish dairy farmers are in at the minute resembles New Zealand back in the early 2000’s with unbelievable growth figures and billions of euros been invested by farmers and processors alike, to be fair we are all on a hamster wheel now tough to varying degrees and the days of 35 plus cent for milk and cheap fert/inputs have long gone, so the ability to bank money in a high price year to cushion the bad years weather and price wise isn’t going to be their going forward....
Dairying will probably provide a income going forward but the margins will be waferthin

Panch18

kevthegaff wrote: »

No real reason, ended with grass based model is the best

Glad you read it the same as me!!

No reason whatsoever given

whelan2

Panch18 wrote: »

Glad you read it the same as me!!

No reason whatsoever given

I think that was just a pr exercise

Gawddawggonnit

whelan2 wrote: »

I think that was just a pr exercise

Second last paragraph is rather revealing.
When facts/circumstances change then it’s only right to change direction...emissions, pollution etc.

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

The cycle Irish dairy farmers are in at the minute resembles New Zealand back in the early 2000’s with unbelievable growth figures and billions of euros been invested by farmers and processors alike, to be fair we are all on a hamster wheel now tough to varying degrees and the days of 35 plus cent for milk and cheap fert/inputs have long gone, so the ability to bank money in a high price year to cushion the bad years weather and price wise isn’t going to be their going forward....
Dairying will probably provide a income going forward but the margins will be waferthin

Plenty of family farms who have expanded away using mostly cash flow, and have very little borrowings. And once you keep your labour in control and haven't had to up your hours then it's been a no brainer to expand away (and in many cases the farmer has been able to hire more labour to reduce his workload!)

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

Plenty of family farms who have expanded away using mostly cash flow, and have very little borrowings. And once you keep your labour in control and haven't had to up your hours then it's been a no brainer to expand away (and in many cases the farmer has been able to hire more labour to reduce his workload!)

Is that sustainable tho. All talk of sustainability these days but profit doesn't seem to be mentioned in the same breath. A farm/ business has to be able to pay back debt as well as provide a living for the owners, if coops don't realise that at some stage things will come to a halt.

Timmaay

Mooooo wrote: »

Is that sustainable tho. All talk of sustainability these days but profit doesn't seem to be mentioned in the same breath. A farm/ business has to be able to pay back debt as well as provide a living for the owners, if coops don't realise that at some stage things will come to a halt.

Agreed, however at least less bank debt doesn't put you under pressure to keep up output no matter what to meet bank repayments, if its a crap year with say poor weather and poor milk prices, I know I could easily just cut back and reduce my hired labour.

I'm personally not massively optimistic about the longer term viability of dairying in any case, the next 5/10years I'd be confident enough growth in Asia will keep us tipping away grand, but after that who knows, big threats include climate change, vegan/alternative diets and things like what if there was an viable alternative milk, that actually has very similar characters of real milk, but can be produced for less, it would wipe out the dairy industry overnight. Its sort of why I like any of my farm investments to pay for themselves within the likes of 10yrs at most.

And that option for me to exit the industry at any stage is a useful bargaining chip for me, I'm not going to be caught hanging around losing money if say glanbia cut the milk price to mid/ low 20c with no upswing in sight moving forward.

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

Plenty of family farms who have expanded away using mostly cash flow, and have very little borrowings. And once you keep your labour in control and haven't had to up your hours then it's been a no brainer to expand away (and in many cases the farmer has been able to hire more labour to reduce his workload!)

I’d be more alluding to the lads that have jumped from 100 to 300 plus our new entrants who hand the deeds over to the bank manager and draw down half a million and the rest to go milking, got in to cows here in 13 and its only now I have the place going fairly well re sheds and numbers/cow type I want, when you see lads jumping in and saddling themselves with huge debt the first day instead of building the thing up and having to go without till the place is generating cash to upgrade roadways/put in a bigger Parlour etc you’d be very weary of how things will pan out for these lads

Panch18

Mooooo wrote: »

Is that sustainable tho. All talk of sustainability these days but profit doesn't seem to be mentioned in the same breath. A farm/ business has to be able to pay back debt as well as provide a living for the owners, if coops don't realise that at some stage things will come to a halt.

There's a severe lack of the word profit in most discussions/debates in dairying nowadays

I think for the last few years plenty of fellas are just keeping above water - but the thing is everybody has a different definition of what profit is. Reading on here and other places it seems to me that a lot of lads are happy if they have a few pound for a Saturday night and enough to keep the kids fed. That's survival not profit in my eyes

Panch18

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Second last paragraph is rather revealing.
When facts/circumstances change then it’s only right to change direction...emissions, pollution etc.

And the question I would have is why isn't Greenfield the farm to focus at least some of that research on emissions and pollution etc?

Surely that would be the logical next step

GrasstoMilk

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Second last paragraph is rather revealing.
When facts/circumstances change then it’s only right to change direction...emissions, pollution etc.

Can they not change direction in the greenfields?
Perfect place to do it to show us all!

Mortelaro

Regarding borrowings on a family farm
If you have a young lad or lass coming on and eager, a 25yr loan can be effectively argued as a 50 year term
A bank will be severely microscopic your figures,so if you get the 'big loan' ,odds are you can afford it
Maintain and improve thereafter out of cashflow

Where it gets complicated is definitely new entrants with completely from scratch new builds and short on experience
Rather them than me there

Bass Reeves

It is interesting that Glanbia has decided to withdraw from the Farm. it was always possible the land owners would opt to get the land back as soon as possible with faculities in place. They have just been handed back a dairy farm with roadways and paddocking in place as well as basic milking faculities and cubicles.

You wonder is Glanbia afraid of possible negative publicity down the line with regard to what will happen with calves coming from the unit. I would not be negative about dairying in Ireland. Oil and energy prices will start to rise again. We already see with relatively low oil prices that grain prices are increasing this will make grass based milk more competitive. I think labour costs will be the long term dampner. Looking else where labour costs on farms are increasing. It is interesting that in Australia pay is over 16 euro/hour and rising on dairy farms and taht si working in a much more favourable climate than Ireland

mycro2013

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is interesting that Glanbia has decided to withdraw from the Farm. it was always possible the land owners would opt to get the land back as soon as possible with faculities in place. They have just been handed back a dairy farm with roadways and paddocking in place as well as basic milking faculities and cubicles.

You wonder is Glanbia afraid of possible negative publicity down the line with regard to what will happen with calves coming from the unit. I would not be negative about dairying in Ireland. Oil and energy prices will start to rise again. We already see with relatively low oil prices that grain prices are increasing this will make grass based milk more competitive. I think labour costs will be the long term dampner. Looking else where labour costs on farms are increasing. It is interesting that in Australia pay is over 16 euro/hour and rising on dairy farms and taht si working in a much more favourable climate than Ireland

In the journal it stated that the landowner wants their land back. With the journal being some what displeased that it got no prior warnings or consultation regarding the decision.