Greenfield kilkenny

bob charles

jersey101 wrote: »

220 cows there now. Pit not opened yet. 200 bales of silage being used first. I would say they will be okay. As soon as the cows calve there diet won't include any of that silage

where are the other 100 cows gone for? B&B setup? how long can they keep eating bales before opening the pits?

mf240

bob charles wrote: »

where are the other 100 cows gone for? B&B setup? how long can they keep eating bales before opening the pits?

If they don't give them to them then they won't eat them. No point in spoiling them in the winter or they will expect to have enough grub in the summer aswell.

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

where are the other 100 cows gone for? B&B setup? how long can they keep eating bales before opening the pits?

Culled/sold I think. They have 90 heifers coming back I think. Started feeding 5 Dec Getting 13 bales aday I reckon. So 21st Dec they will be gone. They say the y have 200 bales of hay too

Brown Podzol

mf240 wrote: »

They have added A herd of cows to their assets though.

Reflected in the debt.

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

are you serious? they have 200t of forage for the rest of the winter for 320 cows. surly not

Tonnes dm

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Sure Jackie and co think the farm is on the north island of New Zealand and that once they hit feb 1 there've all off to grass and an odd half a kg of Soya hulls will do if it gets very wet or very cold!!

Well it's working isn't it? 93k!!!

mf240

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Reflected in the debt.

Yes I mean they Will have a herd of to sell at the end, this is on top of yearly profits. I think???

mahoney_j

jersey101 wrote: »

220 cows there now. Pit not opened yet. 200 bales of silage being used first. I would say they will be okay. As soon as the cows calve there diet won't include any of that silage

They may and in all probability will have to feed some silage.theyvare just too rigid in the way they manage the cows,calve cows straight to grass which is fine,but theyvare too slow to adapt and introduce feed once needed.a cow in this country won't survive for a full year on all grass especially after calving in spring on a cold wet spring day when she's only given 2 or 3 hours grass and then left standing in a yard till next milking with no more feed.shell quickly go into a negative energy balance and loose condition and drop off in milk.feed outside of grass is seen as an absolute last resort there

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Well it's working isn't it? 93k!!!

do you lads up there not pay any tax. I always talk about profit after tax as that is what you actually have. Pre tax profits is a bit of a corporate showboat as there rates of effective tax can be a little bit different than that you or I's

anyway sounds to me like there is a good bit of boiling going on in this pot, have the new heifers being bought and included in figure 2013 figures, why are they culling at close on 33%? what is the rent per ac delaval?

trixi2011

I think the kk farm really demenstraits how hard it is to farm on a leased land basis in ireland . how many young landless farmers would be able to get the finantial backing for this type of venture.

bob charles

mf240 wrote: »

Yes I mean they Will have a herd of to sell at the end, this is on top of yearly profits. I think???

but what they would have to sell would be at cull value, well going by this year at 33% culling rate, the value of the herd would be half ways between cull value and milking value IYKWIM

delaval

trixi2011 wrote: »

I think the kk farm really demenstraits how hard it is to farm on a leased land basis in ireland . how many young landless farmers would be able to get the finantial backing for this type of venture.

Absolutely correct, but if you owned the stock it could be done.

just do it

trixi2011 wrote: »

I think the kk farm really demenstraits how hard it is to farm on a leased land basis in ireland . how many young landless farmers would be able to get the finantial backing for this type of venture.

None and rightfully so. Start small and if the farmer has the ability it will grow.

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

do you lads up there not pay any tax. I always talk about profit after tax as that is what you actually have. Pre tax profits is a bit of a corporate showboat as there rates of effective tax can be a little bit different than that you or I's

anyway sounds to me like there is a good bit of boiling going on in this pot, have the new heifers being bought and included in figure 2013 figures, why are they culling at close on 33%? what is the rent per ac delaval?

That includes full charge for heifers as they are contract reared at a daily rate

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Absolutely correct, but if you owned the stock it could be done.

but most growing farms in Ireland own the land and not the stock, I would prefer to rent the land and own stock any day. Or one tool I know, owns neither :rolleyes:

anyway if we take the figures as 100% correct and accurate, who would consider €81k profit acceptable for the risk and reward of 320 cows and 285 acres

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

Well it's working isn't it? 93k!!!

Imagine how good it would be if cows were fed adequately????.they introduced feed too late in November and ended up loosing out on lactose bonus for the month.

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

Well it's working isn't it? 93k!!!

Imagine how good it would be if cows were fed adequately????.they introduced feed too late in November and ended up loosing out on lactose bonus for the month.

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Imagine how good it would be if cows were fed adequately????.they introduced feed too late in November and ended up loosing out on lactose bonus for the month.

Your correct, they're a bit slow to act at times.

mf240

mahoney_j wrote: »

Imagine how good it would be if cows were fed adequately????.they introduced feed too late in November and ended up loosing out on lactose bonus for the month.

Yes but in fairness they admitted that. Of all times of the year it's in the Oct Nov that meal pays.

jersey101

mahoney_j wrote: »

Imagine how good it would be if cows were fed adequately????.they introduced feed too late in November and ended up loosing out on lactose bonus for the month.

They'll learn from it though if any thing. As long as they don't make the same mistakes again. The two lads will run good set ups when they return home I'd imagine. Thomas's home place wouldn't be to far away from me

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

Your correct, they're a bit slow to act at times.

if the best brains in the country are slow to act us normal joe soaps are up the swannee

mahoney_j

jersey101 wrote: »

They'll learn from it though if any thing. As long as they don't make the same mistakes again. The two lads will run good set ups when they return home I'd imagine. Thomas's home place wouldn't be to far away from me

Same thing happend in summer jersey but thet didn't loose out on any bonuses.they were again too slow to introduce feed and ran out of grass quicker than they should.they seem to be so he'll bent on proving that you can just pick up a farm from New Zealand and transfer it here without changing management practices.jackie and co should be held accountable

jaymla627

jersey101 wrote: »

They'll learn from it though if any thing. As long as they don't make the same mistakes again. The two lads will run good set ups when they return home I'd imagine. Thomas's home place wouldn't be to far away from me

It's run by the so-called best dairying advisors in the country,surely with all their combined PhDs and years of experience they realise that the feed/energy value of November grass isn't the best and they needed to introduce 2-3 kgs of meal along with a few kilos of that pit of whole crop they have, at the lactose levels their cows where at they must of being absolutely hammered in the back-end no wonder they need a 12 week dry period.

jersey101

mahoney_j wrote: »

Same thing happend in summer jersey but thet didn't loose out on any bonuses.they were again too slow to introduce feed and ran out of grass quicker than they should.they seem to be so he'll bent on proving that you can just pick up a farm from New Zealand and transfer it here without changing management practices.jackie and co should be held accountable

Ye you are dead on there to let 6 collections go before fixing the problem is wrong alright. They problem felt they had fed more meal than what they wanted to this year that they could get away from more meal.
They may have all the advisors in the country but how many have practical experience versus theory. Jack has no practical experience any way

jaymla627

jersey101 wrote: »

Ye you are dead on there to let 6 collections go before fixing the problem is wrong alright. They problem felt they had fed more meal than what they wanted to this year that they could get away from more meal.
They may have all the advisors in the country but how many have practical experience versus theory. Jack has no practical experience any way

I have to laugh at how he was pissed of with the meal bill they where left with, it just shows how naive and set he is in his ways does the chap not see the extra milked produced from the meal along with helping to hold cow condition might of had its financial advantages.
It's an absolute shame that this lad has gotten away with being the voice of dairying in the ifj for the past number of years they really could do with a fresh face and someone who actually is fair and balanced and not set on the teagasc way of thinking.

jersey101

jaymla627 wrote: »

I have to laugh at how he was pissed of with the meal bill they where left with, it just shows how naive and set he is in his ways does the chap not see the extra milked produced from the meal along with helping to hold cow condition might of had its financial advantages.
It's an absolute shame that this lad has gotten away with being the voice of dairying in the ifj for the past number of years they really could do with a fresh face and someone who actually is fair and balanced and not set on teagasc way of thinking.

I think we'll leave that box where it was, for now, closed in the corner

jaymla627

jersey101 wrote: »

I think we'll leave that box where it was, for now, closed in the corner

Ha we all know that he's got a job for life, it's Ireland after all transparency/accountability/ and good journalism without being tied up with vested interests just doesn't happen here, it's all about who yeah know not what yeah know;)

delaval

If he's so bad he mustn't have much to do with the running if it, considering how well they went this year despite a challenging year

maxxuumman

Is the breakdown on costs published anywhere?
Would be good to know what contract rearing, contracting, etc is costing
Happened to pass there recently, seems to be a decent pit of silage still there.
I wouldn't say it will be an issue for them.

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

If he's so bad he mustn't have much to do with the running if it, considering how well they went this year despite a challenging year

Not doubting they went very well but it could of been a lot better if management outside of 2 boys on farm was more open .

Dont be daft

jaymla627 wrote: »

Ha we all know that he's got a job for life, it's Ireland after all transparency/accountability/ and good journalism without being tied up with vested interests just doesn't happen here, it's all about who yeah know not what yeah know;)

I heard through the grapevine that he might be putting theory into practice very soon himself;)

Dunno if its true or not.

delaval

maxxuumman wrote: »

Is the breakdown on costs published anywhere?
Would be good to know what contract rearing, contracting, etc is costing
Happened to pass there recently, seems to be a decent pit of silage still there.
I wouldn't say it will be an issue for them.

Yea over 1000 tonne in it at a guess

jaymla627

delaval wrote: »

If he's so bad he mustn't have much to do with the running if it, considering how well they went this year despite a challenging year

Near record high milk prices is the reason, if milk had averaged 30cent a litre base price this year they would of lost in our around 50,000 euros with every cent of a swing on 1.5 million litres coming to 15,000 euro a couple of cent either way means good solid profits our big losses, that's the joys of having big numbers when it's going well your laughing when it goes bad well that's what overdrafts are for.

F.D

maybe feeding meal is a chore the don't want, i think it was mentioned they don't have enough feed fence so you would be feeding them in batches
would it not be viable on a herd that size to have a cheap trough in the parlour and batch feeders, there is nothing saying you have to use them every day but its ready to go when required

awaywithyou

93000 surplus.... Not bad considering their costs were 43 cents/litre....

Now would they ever go away and ring up crowleys in cork or dairymaster or whoever and put in batch feeders into the parlour... They should get them in for around 15k surely...

When I read reports of meal being put on the ground in the collecting yard... It actually makes me sick....

mahoney_j

F.D wrote: »

maybe feeding meal is a chore the don't want, i think it was mentioned they don't have enough feed fence so you would be feeding them in batches
would it not be viable on a herd that size to have a cheap trough in the parlour and batch feeders, there is nothing saying you have to use them every day but its ready to go when required

Feeding meal aint a chore,You have to do it at certain times of the year to keep cows mororing along.They had adequate feed space all around the collection yard for the parlour.I was there in march and was astonished to hear that the 2 boys had bucketed out over 150 tonnes of feed with buckets and a barrow,Would love to ship jackie and co up there and give them that job
As for the parlour feeders,On a herd size like that and with everything else so basic on the farm how they never budgeted for cheap batch feeders is beyond ne.

jersey101

Question I would like to know is, what will they do with the 93k

delaval

jersey101 wrote: »

Question I would like to know is, what will they do with the 93k

Bank it

moy83

delaval wrote: »

Bank it

For when milk price drops ? Will they borrow for all improvements or expansion ?

John_F

jaymla627 wrote: »

I have to laugh at how he was pissed of with the meal bill they where left with, it just shows how naive and set he is in his ways does the chap not see the extra milked produced from the meal along with helping to hold cow condition might of had its financial advantages.
It's an absolute shame that this lad has gotten away with being the voice of dairying in the ifj for the past number of years they really could do with a fresh face and someone who actually is fair and balanced and not set on the teagasc way of thinking.

the paidi kelly lad has talked alot of sense in the past year to be fair - espcially for a young lad not long out of ucd, hope he keeps it up and does well.



anyway a video from jack for ye. cows not in too bad nick really, shows the silage pit, 8,000 per year on woodchip,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVfeJk9pZyM

kilkenny greenfield website here for anyone interested http://www.greenfielddairy.ie/node/103

Timmaay

jaymla627 wrote: »

It's an absolute shame that this lad has gotten away with being the voice of dairying in the ifj for the past number of years they really could do with a fresh face and someone who actually is fair and balanced and not set on the teagasc way of thinking.

I personally wouldn't really blame teagasc, they in fairness have the research done, and have shown that in Ireland a medium/low yeilding cow on mostly grass works best, but importantly concentrate feed will be needed to makeup the shortfall during times of poor growth! In the case of the greenfield site, i never did like some of the statements on the homepage of their website, such as 150herd grass based cows are the only profitable system moving forward, I'd blame the likes of that on Glanbia, who have a vested interested to have as much milk supplied to their new plants. Agreed fully about jack, I'm also bored of the same old lazy message of nz this nz that out of him. In terms of the greenfield, as has been said before the decision not to install batch feeders in the parlour is madness, and an sign that someone there wants it to be a race to the bottom, of all grass based milk, instead of whatever is the most profitable, and in accepting the need to feed the cows nuts during poor growth on the shoulders etc.

awaywithyou

In fairness while im not Jack's biggest fan... he doesnt act as if he knows it all... when he started out in the job maybe he did but not anymore.... he now acts more as a facilitator passing on messages or ideas or whatever.... the videos that he does when he visits farms i think there very good to be fair... warts and all account of whats happening...

i'd love to hear what he really thinks on these low cost systems of farming.. as at the min he is just a teagasc spokesperson and no more.... id like to see him write down what HE thinks bout the farming systems out there and not be writing down what Teagasc want him to say... its like they have a gun to his head the whole time or he's afraid he'll lose his job if he doesnt speak teagasc

blackdog1

Would like to see that woodchip pad today after all the rain we had..wouldn't be pretty

jaymla627

awaywithyou wrote: »

In fairness while im not Jack's biggest fan... he doesnt act as if he knows it all... when he started out in the job maybe he did but not anymore.... he now acts more as a facilitator passing on messages or ideas or whatever.... the videos that he does when he visits farms i think there very good to be fair... warts and all account of whats happening...

i'd love to hear what he really thinks on these low cost systems of farming.. as at the min he is just a teagasc spokesperson and no more.... id like to see him write down what HE thinks bout the farming systems out there and not be writing down what Teagasc want him to say... its like they have a gun to his head the whole time or he's afraid he'll lose his job if he doesnt speak teagasc

Unless he wants to end up getting a divorce, his missus is the head teagasc adviser on the greenfied site

delaval

blackdog1 wrote: »

Would like to see that woodchip pad today after all the rain we had..wouldn't be pretty

It's the cows I'd be looking at not the pad, Iykwim

keep going

Timmaay wrote: »

I personally wouldn't really blame teagasc, they in fairness have the research done, and have shown that in Ireland a medium/low yeilding cow on mostly grass works best, but importantly concentrate feed will be needed to makeup the shortfall during times of poor growth! In the case of the greenfield site, i never did like some of the statements on the homepage of their website, such as 150herd grass based cows are the only profitable system moving forward, I'd blame the likes of that on Glanbia, who have a vested interested to have as much milk supplied to their new plants. Agreed fully about jack, I'm also bored of the same old lazy message of nz this nz that out of him. In terms of the greenfield, as has been said before the decision not to install batch feeders in the parlour is madness, and an sign that someone there wants it to be a race to the bottom, of all grass based milk, instead of whatever is the most profitable, and in accepting the need to feed the cows nuts during poor growth on the shoulders etc.

I will always feed ration when its profitable and when its needed but its amazing how many lads have not copped on that the margin is in grass snd if you spend alot of money you dont have on facilities or mavhinery you will never make money.+1on the feeders, they did the same in bandon

Gillespy

It's not something I follow too closely as it has little relevance to me but it does appear kind of regimented. To feed meal is to admit defeat. No, it no different to fertilizer, you use it when needed.

Panch18

Well apparently their cows peaked at over 60 litres a day according to figure 2 in the journal, some cows!!

Injuryprone

John_F wrote: »

the paidi kelly lad has talked alot of sense in the past year to be fair - espcially for a young lad not long out of ucd, hope he keeps it up and does well.



anyway a video from jack for ye. cows not in too bad nick really, shows the silage pit, 8,000 per year on woodchip,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVfeJk9pZyM

kilkenny greenfield website here for anyone interested http://www.greenfielddairy.ie/node/103

In the video, Jack says they're doing the cows with Noromectin pour on next week, following on from fasinex 240 fluke dose.

I was going to go down this road also but I see that the Noromectin should be given more than 60 days before calving. Given the date of the video, the withdrawal period would seem to go over 2-3 weeks after they start calving??

So what am I missing here? Would it show up? Do people tend to risk it?

jersey101

Injuryprone wrote: »

In the video, Jack says they're doing the cows with Noromectin pour on next week, following on from fasinex 240 fluke dose.

I was going to go down this road also but I see that the Noromectin should be given more than 60 days before calving. Given the date of the video, the withdrawal period would seem to go over 2-3 weeks after they start calving??

So what am I missing here? Would it show up? Do people tend to risk it?

I thought fasinex did worms as well?