Greenfield kilkenny

mf240

Cows lying off grunting here, full as ticks and comfy on their mayo mats,

Glad I made silage last summer, it's fierce handy in the winter when the weather's wet.

Timmaay

mf240 wrote: »

Cows lying off grunting here, full as ticks and comfy on their mayo mats,

Glad I made silage last summer, it's fierce handy in the winter when the weather's wet.

Lucky for some, My cows were raiding the 2nd cut back in August

jaymla627

bob charles wrote: »

Young calves heifers put out fulltime at the moment only getting 3kgs of meal and probably getting knock around by the bullies when a bit of wholecrop is offered before milking. If the weather keeps up as it is, these methods will make interesting reading.

At the moment the heifer might as well eat her 3 kgs of meal and go stand by the water trough as she would conserve more energy than being outside trying to eat enough. the energy deficit must be huge :eek:

Don't be questioning these boys their the brighest dairy minds in the country apparently, considering their replacement rates are running between 25-30 % a year when they should be in our around 10-15% its blatantly obvious their canning the cows not even the x-breds can stick that place.
Would love to see what precentage of the herd is gone past their 3 rd lactation

bob charles

mf240 wrote: »

Cows lying off grunting here, full as ticks and comfy on their mayo mats,

Glad I made silage last summer, it's fierce handy in the winter when the weather's wet.

its easy see why your not making money:D, do you realise the cost of making silage is twice that of grazed grass. Such waste is money down the drain

trixi2011

quote="mahoney_j;88937867"]Hmm cows out full time for last week and only 3 kg of meal and I'd say a mouthful of whole crop on the extreme wet days .hope to god no one is following that advice as cows would melt away .all for getting cows out to grass but to me that diet is lacking in energy big time and cows must be loosing condition which is not what u want after calving.[/quote]

Do all cows not loose condition after calving ? That diet doesn't really sound to bad for early lactation low input cows as long as they are getting enough grass and weather isn't too bad , I would prefer high quality grass silage to whole crop at that time of the year tho

Deepsouthwest

jaymla627 wrote: »

Don't be questioning these boys their the brighest dairy minds in the country apparently, considering their replacement rates are running between 25-30 % a year when they should be in our around 10-15% its blatantly obvious their canning the cows not even the x-breds can stick that place.
Would love to see what precentage of the herd is gone past their 3 rd lactation

Probably not many gone past their 3rd lactation!Last yr was only they're third year of the trial, and think they started with all heifers.

kevthegaff

My calved cows are in good nick out during the day, would you go for a low protein ration giving im well over quota?

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

My calved cows are in good nick out during the day, would you go for a low protein ration giving im well over quota?

At least 14% and proab 16%,but make sure it is hi in energy(has a high ufl.energy content more important than protein .use a mix with a good wack of maize in it

delaval

kevthegaff wrote: »

My calved cows are in good nick out during the day, would you go for a low protein ration giving im well over quota?

Hi energy 12% p. don't want to skin them

Brown Podzol

delaval wrote: »

Hi energy 12% p. don't want to skin them

I agree, plenty of protein in grass. Conserve body condition,will give better conception rates in the coming breeding season.

bob charles

Why not just work out what demand is on the cow/heifer and then feed accordingly. It pretty easy to do and very beneficial.

If I said on here I was going spreading 5 bags of 18-6-12 as I wasnt sure what the ground needed for silage you would all say thats crazy and I should do a soil test first to see what the ground actually needs, instead of wasting money.

Why do some dairy guys seem to have a mental block about properly feeding their cows. At moment a good cow is put well over €12 into the tank. surely you can spend €3 quid feeding her Cutting back on feed is not necessarily going to mean less milk as a cow is born to milk so she will keep doing that until she goes to skin and bone

mahoney_j

bob charles wrote: »

Why not just work out what demand is on the cow/heifer and then feed accordingly. It pretty easy to do and very beneficial.

If I said on here I was going spreading 5 bags of 18-6-12 as I wasnt sure what the ground needed for silage you would all say thats crazy and I should do a soil test first to see what the ground actually needs, instead of wasting money.

Why do some dairy guys seem to have a mental block about properly feeding their cows. At moment a good cow is put well over €12 into the tank. surely you can spend €3 quid feeding her Cutting back on feed is not necessarily going to mean less milk as a cow is born to milk so she will keep doing that until she goes to skin and bone

Well said bob!!

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Why not just work out what demand is on the cow/heifer and then feed accordingly. It pretty easy to do and very beneficial.

If I said on here I was going spreading 5 bags of 18-6-12 as I wasnt sure what the ground needed for silage you would all say thats crazy and I should do a soil test first to see what the ground actually needs, instead of wasting money.

Why do some dairy guys seem to have a mental block about properly feeding their cows. At moment a good cow is put well over €12 into the tank. surely you can spend €3 quid feeding her Cutting back on feed is not necessarily going to mean less milk as a cow is born to milk so she will keep doing that until she goes to skin and bone

Yeh but, no but, yeh but..... ahh..... yer wrong..... ye just are:p

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

Why not just work out what demand is on the cow/heifer and then feed accordingly. It pretty easy to do and very beneficial.

If I said on here I was going spreading 5 bags of 18-6-12 as I wasnt sure what the ground needed for silage you would all say thats crazy and I should do a soil test first to see what the ground actually needs, instead of wasting money.

Why do some dairy guys seem to have a mental block about properly feeding their cows. At moment a good cow is put well over €12 into the tank. surely you can spend €3 quid feeding her Cutting back on feed is not necessarily going to mean less milk as a cow is born to milk so she will keep doing that until she goes to skin and bone

If you are trying to maximise output you have to lead them a small bit. Cows losing body condition will be very hard to get in calf and cows that have lost too much body condition even if things have stabilised will be harder than nessecary to get in calf. We would try to keep the period when they are losing weight as short as possible. No matter how much and how the quality of their diet is some weight loss is more or less inevitable due to the cows physiology. Cows eating north of 23kg DM as an average group can still be losing weight. Some of the big girls there would obviously be eating close to thirty kgs.

There are some extremists out there. I was in one mans yard in the winter of '12/'13 and he was feeding 5kgs+ of meal to dry cows to put condition on them. The same guy would be turning straight out to grass after calving and would begrudge milking cows half that amount of meal. To me much more than half a point of condition score change over the year and you are not doing something right. Sometimes it can be unavoidable due to cost or a spring like last year oor other factors but it needs to be minimised not planned for and used as a mismanagement tool.

I thought we had our ration fairly well sorted over winter, cows were milking well and solids were fairly good at 3.3-3.4 pr and around 4 fat. They've jumped big time since we went to grass 3.5-3.6 pr and 4.5 fat from HO. pedigrees. There must have been a big hole somewhere in the diet. We're well over quota so not pushing.

just do it

Freedom
Out of interest as a non-dairy farmer, how much is that jump in solids worth per litre?

mf240

Kathryn thomas is one her way to kilkenny to view the impressive weight loss achieved by the little cows, she is hoping to pick up some tips for next week's "operation transformation"!!

bob charles

Is it not pretty simple

600kg cow requires X amount of calories/Me for maintenance when dry or the while milking

20l of milk requires X amount of calories/ME & Protein
30l " " "
40l " " "

Add all together and you get total Calories/Me and Protein needed.

Get your feeds tested and wholla you have a cow produceing X litres while eating Y Calories/ ME while here BCS remains stable. Test grass regularly and soon you would be able to eye ball energy of grass given growing conditions

Nutrition is of upmost importance 365 days of the year. My most important spreadsheet here on the computer is my cattle diet formulation. Its what puts money in your pocket

mf240

Your right to a point bob, but the problem is cows appetite falls after calving and it can be hard to get enough into her to avoid some loss in weight,

bob charles

mf240 wrote: »

Your right to a point bob, but the problem is cows appetite falls after calving and it can be hard to get enough into her to avoid some loss in weight,

Important for me to say
I have never fed a cow so :rolleyes::rolleyes:

If this is the case then you have to increase the energy of the diet to allow for this period. So instead of eating 23 kgs of a diet to reach there required intake, they eat 18kgs of a feed that is 30% more energy denser that the first diet but still gives the same energy intake.

mf240

I agree bob, 100% and you will definitely minimise it,

mahoney_j

bob charles wrote: »

Is it not pretty simple

600kg cow requires X amount of calories/Me for maintenance when dry or the while milking

20l of milk requires X amount of calories/ME & Protein
30l " " "
40l " " "

Add all together and you get total Calories/Me and Protein needed.

Get your feeds tested and wholla you have a cow produceing X litres while eating Y Calories/ ME while here BCS remains stable. Test grass regularly and soon you would be able to eye ball energy of grass given growing conditions

Nutrition is of upmost importance 365 days of the year. My most important spreadsheet here on the computer is my cattle diet formulation. Its what puts money in your pocket

Bang on bob,sure a lot on here just think calve ur cow send her to grass and only give her a mouthful of concentrate now and again and she'll be fine.many guys simply don't know how to feed there cows adequately and just follow whatever Jackie and co preach from what they see down under.if any one has read that weekly report from greenfield kk I hope to god they ain't implementing it.lowcost seems to be a sexy world for a lot of our younger greenhorn farmers these times.lowcost dosnt mean starve ur cows or flog them out on days you'd hardly put yourself out.cows in greenfield are bucket fed around the collection yard ,how the hell are heifers to eat 3 kg when there is a lot of mature cows there as well which are quicker eaters and will bully then out of the way????and they also only get a mouthful of whole crop in EXTREMELY wet days.thsts top class advice from our farm advisory body and a farm which is meant to be a template for our new entrant dairy farmers to base there's on.

bob charles

mahoney_j wrote: »

how the hell are heifers to eat 3 kg when there is a lot of mature cows there as well which are quicker eaters and will bully then out of the way????

Are you saying 3kgs X (how ever many cows) is put along the feed passage for the whole number of animals to make at it:eek:. I *assumed* that this 3kgs was offered in those in parlour feeders you lads are always on about where each animal is guaranteed the 3kgs

bob charles

mf240 wrote: »

Kathryn thomas is one her way to kilkenny to view the impressive weight loss achieved by the little cows, she is hoping to pick up some tips for next week's "operation transformation"!!

I wonder will she have to make many stops on the road down;)

just do it

Calving is a tumultuous event for any animal. There are so many changes. Even the sucklers I give them 5-6kg for first 3 days with a feed immediately after calving, 12hrs and then daily.

mahoney_j

bob charles wrote: »

Are you saying 3kgs X (how ever many cows) is put along the feed passage for the whole number of animals to make at it:eek:. I *assumed* that this 3kgs was offered in those in parlour feeders you lads are always on about where each animal is guaranteed the 3kgs

3 kg is poured along the edges of the circular collection yard with a big green barrow and buckets and then gate is opened and they all flood in.cheap parlour feeders aren't low cost enough for them.sone could be eating 5 kg others 2 and sone of heifers a mouthful.

Greengrass1

I personaly think its a brilliant set up

onyerbikepat

Anyone feed sucklers meal for a few days before calving to get their energy up? I was thinking of feeding a few of the poorer condition cows this year. I'm thinking like 1 to 2 kgs per day just as they are coming up to calving.

farmerjack

mahoney_j wrote: »

3 kg is poured along the edges of the circular collection yard with a big green barrow and buckets and then gate is opened and they all flood in.cheap parlour feeders aren't low cost enough for them.sone could be eating 5 kg others 2 and sone of heifers a mouthful.

That right there is my biggest problem with the greenfield. I would consider myself a low cost producer but I will not compromise on energy intake at any time in the year, currently my cows are getting grass by day(when possible) high dmd baled silage at night and three kilos of rolled barley in the parlour. Cows have lost minimal condition since calving

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I personaly think its a brilliant set up

Farm is excellent,parlour functional but winter housing terrible.the pad should be converted to topless cubicles as milkers can't be stood off or milked on it due to mastitis issues.management of the whole thing at the moment is piss poor especially management and feeding of milkers.the way the milkers especially at the moment are been managed is not something anyone should be saying is good or even contemplating doing

just do it

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Anyone feed sucklers meal for a few days before calving to get their energy up? I was thinking of feeding a few of the poorer condition cows this year. I'm thinking like 1 to 2 kgs per day just as they are coming up to calving.

Yip see nothing wrong with that.

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Farm is excellent,parlour functional but winter housing terrible.the pad should be converted to topless cubicles as milkers can't be stood off or milked on it due to mastitis issues.management of the whole thing at the moment is piss poor especially management and feeding of milkers.the way the milkers especially at the moment are been managed is not something anyone should be saying is good or even contemplating doing

Ah Mahoney I thought I was going to get a big speil from ye .
Ye pad will need to be changed alright.
Going to get some barley today and give milkers a kg or two and drop nuts back to 3

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I personaly think its a brilliant set up

Farm is excellent,parlour functional but winter housing terrible.the pad should be converted to topless cubicles as milkers can't be stood off or milked on it due to mastitis issues.management of the whole thing at the moment is piss poor especially management and feeding of milkers.the way the milkers especially at the moment are been managed is not something anyone should be saying is good or even contemplating doing

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ah Mahoney I thought I was going to get a big speil from ye .
Ye pad will need to be changed alright.
Going to get some barley today and give milkers a kg or two and drop nuts back to 3

Hi maize nut is what u need greengrass .naize is the energy source of choice

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Hi maize nut is what u need greengrass .naize is the energy source of choice

I have 3 tonne of 16% nut in the bin still

Farmer Pudsey

bob charles wrote: »

Are you saying 3kgs X (how ever many cows) is put along the feed passage for the whole number of animals to make at it:eek:. I *assumed* that this 3kgs was offered in those in parlour feeders you lads are always on about where each animal is guaranteed the 3kgs

Did you not know that Bob JK has been preaching that for a few years to new setups. They call it Batch feeders I thing but the batch is the whole mob. If we look at NZ we see that they are tending to follow European systems as cows can only be taken so far in a low cost system. Now as milk prices rise they are looking at ways to maximise production. As another posted on OC thread they are looking at housing over there winter.

10 years ago I would have been on the side of a total low cost system if you had enough land and were limited by quota. The rules have changed now we are trying to expand fast. Total low cost may not be an option. The management of the Greenfields and the Grange suckler unit leave a lot to be desired. The theorists that are unwilling to adapt to cinditions are doing a huge disfavour to Irish dairy farmers. If you are in a hole you should stop digging

Timmaay

NZ facing serious hurdles with trying to comply with nitrates also, the days of outwintering everything in a sacrificial paddock are well and truly numbered, will most certainly add to their cost base. If they are bumping up their production systems anyways to a cow who is fed more concentrates they are most certainly going to move away from low cost quick.

awaywithyou

bob charles wrote: »

Is it not pretty simple

600kg cow requires X amount of calories/Me for maintenance when dry or the while milking

20l of milk requires X amount of calories/ME & Protein
30l " " "
40l " " "

Add all together and you get total Calories/Me and Protein needed.

Get your feeds tested and wholla you have a cow produceing X litres while eating Y Calories/ ME while here BCS remains stable. Test grass regularly and soon you would be able to eye ball energy of grass given growing conditions


Nutrition is of upmost importance 365 days of the year. My most important spreadsheet here on the computer is my cattle diet formulation. Its what puts money in your pocket

You should have been a maths teacher bob

Greengrass1

Lads this bull**** about crossbreds calves being useless is absoluthe site and nothing less.
I sent 3 bullocks to factory last night.
A cross, a big HO and and fr.
Cross made 1030
HO made 1300
Fr made 800.

Gillespy

You're proving the point though. HO wiped the floor with the other two. Conclusively. Dual purpose tbh.

Greengrass1

Gillespy wrote: »

You're proving the point though. HO wiped the floor with the other two. Conclusively. Dual purpose tbh.

Nope he did not. He was 2.5 jex was 2
And if a lad had bought him he would have got him for 15e compared to 89 for the fr/ho

Gillespy

ad lib meal since birth?

Greengrass1

Gillespy wrote: »

ad lib meal since birth?

Nope all got same treatment. HO would have got meal when he was weaned for the winter because he was autumn born. Jex was spring born so would have got grass at 12 weeks at most. Then meal and silage for first winter grass and meal at shoulders for second year at grass and 5kg meal and silage this year to fatten them

Panch18

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Lads this bull**** about crossbreds calves being useless is absoluthe site and nothing less.
I sent 3 bullocks to factory last night.
A cross, a big HO and and fr.
Cross made 1030
HO made 1300
Fr made 800.

Good god - are you sure it wasn't the dog you sent instead of the Fr??

He must have been a shocking animal altogether to only make that. That certainly isn't typical of BFr animals - which make great cattle

Greengrass1

Panch18 wrote: »

Good god - are you sure it wasn't the dog you sent instead of the Fr??

He must have been a shocking animal altogether to only make that. That certainly isn't typical of BFr animals - which make great cattle

He was 2. Ah tbh I couldn't give a **** about bullocks. Waste of time I think

Gillespy

It's 3k at the same time, okay to have a few around the place.

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Lads this bull**** about crossbreds calves being useless is absoluthe site and nothing less.
I sent 3 bullocks to factory last night.
A cross, a big HO and and fr.
Cross made 1030
HO made 1300
Fr made 800.

Big question is did they leave any profit?

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Big question is did they leave any profit?

I'm going to try do a jot up of what they might cost. Ill say now that they didn't. Father likes to have them. Calls them a bank acc.

Farmer Pudsey

mahoney_j wrote: »

Big question is did they leave any profit?

The jex cross more than likly did allow 30 in the yard, 100 to get to first winter and 120 to get to spring. 150 to housing before finish. We will allow 100 euro for Vet, testing dosing and miscellanous. 300 euro to finish and 12 euro slaughter fees so about 812 to bring to finish so he left 220 euro. I am more than likly a bit harsh on the costs you could skimp another 80ish off them. He left about 300 euro. But do not be telling lads as they might go up in price.

The holstein might have left little enough. How did they all grade and what was the fat score

Greengrass1

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The jex cross more than likly did allow 30 in the yard, 100 to get to first winter and 120 to get to spring. 150 to housing before finish. We will allow 100 euro for Vet, testing dosing and miscellanous. 300 euro to finish and 12 euro slaughter fees so about 812 to bring to finish so he left 220 euro. I am more than likly a bit harsh on the costs you could skimp another 80ish off them. He left about 300 euro. But do not be telling lads as they might go up in price.

The holstein might have left little enough. How did they all grade and what was the fat score

I'll have a look now in two minutes. You can tell me what they mean. I haven't a clue

Farmer Pudsey

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I'll have a look now in two minutes. You can tell me what they mean. I haven't a clue

I guessing that the JEX had a small frame and had a better level of finish than the others. Was he a black one I have seen farmers mix up AAX and JEX on the card so if he scored O+ he may have been an AAX. My guess is that he FS a good 3 as did the HO but the Fr was a bit bare maybe underfinished even. The JEX may well have graded a O= while the HO was a heavy ''p''.

Just guessing will wait for the results with bated breath.