Greenfield kilkenny

Greengrass1

Fr 0-2+
Jex P+3=
Ho O=3+

trixi2011

Timmaay wrote: »

NZ facing serious hurdles with trying to comply with nitrates also, the days of outwintering everything in a sacrificial paddock are well and truly numbered, will most certainly add to their cost base. If they are bumping up their production systems anyways to a cow who is fed more concentrates they are most certainly going to move away from low cost quick.

Farmers over here are moving towards concentrates in a lot of cases due to the price and availability of quality silage and the fact that utilisation can be quite poor in the periods they would usually feed out spring/autumn.meal is used more to hold high stocking rates and aid in putting on condition in latter in lactation to allow you to milk as many cow as possible until the end of the season. In the past silage would of been made on an outside block or runoff as they call it over here , part of this block would be also used to winter the cows on kale. As the dairy boom progressed a lot of these runoff blocks have been also converted to dairy farms leading to an even higher demand for bought in silage. Nitrates not a massive issue yet loads of talk but noting really proposed yet. Out wintering is still the norm over here and very little talk of rules or regulations coming in

Farmer Pudsey

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Fr 0-2+
Jex P+3=
Ho O=3+

Friesian was underfinished there frame is an issue trying to kill at less than 30 months. Guessing at 4 euro base he was only 220kgs. He could have been up on 500kgs LW. May have been a square animal you may have been penalised as carcass was a bit light, so he may have killed heavier. Might have made 30-50 more in the mart especially as if he went to grass he might grade before 30 months and kill over350kgs in august alot would depend on Date of birth.

HO was about 335kgs DW he had a good level of finish was about 680kgs LW. Was not a total HO to have graded O= at that weight but poor enough preformance after 2 long years at grass. I know that 2012 was poorish year but he had good grass from last June. Would be disappointed in him considered he graded

The Jex was 280 DW he had nothing going for him but he had a good level of finish but grading was killing him. He was a lot of 600kgs LW outpreformed the Fresian by 100kgs LW. Often hard to beat the preformance of Hybrids

Deepsouthwest

awaywithyou wrote: »

You should have been a maths teacher bob

Or a dairy advisor!

jaymla627

Had a look at this weeks weekly notes average protein 3.69 and butterfat 5.73 their literally milking the backs of the cows,there is nearly a 2% difference between bf and p at anything near to a 1% with early lactation cows alarm bells should be ringing but 2% is nuts:o

stanflt

jaymla627 wrote: »

Had a look at this weeks weekly notes average protein 3.69 and butterfat 5.73 their literally milking the backs of the cows,there is nearly a 2% difference between bf and p at anything near to a 1% with early lactation cows alarm bells should be ringing but 2% is nuts:o

Rule of thumb is a ratio of 1:1.6 which their still within


This is more to do with the high milk sub index for bulls that have been used

The rewards of Ebi

Timmaay

Would the overall milk yield not be a much better indicator of how much they are milking their backs off?

mf240

It will be the whole crop driving up the bfat,

There good solids in fairness, I'd say yield must be very low but maybe not,

delaval

mf240 wrote: »

It will be the whole crop driving up the bfat,

There good solids in fairness, I'd say yield must be very low but maybe not,

Has to be the fibre in the WC as I'd say there isn't much in the grass. I saw the cows last week and they were in good order

Gillespy

Depends what they're milking but regardless that's crazy BF. I only reach 5% BF Christmas week when they are as good as dry.:)

Is biestings low or high in butterfat?:pac:

Greengrass1

Ye knock em when ye think there not doing it right and then when they have the figures to back it that there doing it right ye don't believe them.
Typical.

blackdog1

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Friesian was underfinished there frame is an issue trying to kill at less than 30 months. Guessing at 4 euro base he was only 220kgs. He could have been up on 500kgs LW. May have been a square animal you may have been penalised as carcass was a bit light, so he may have killed heavier. Might have made 30-50 more in the mart especially as if he went to grass he might grade before 30 months and kill over350kgs in august alot would depend on Date of birth.

HO was about 335kgs DW he had a good level of finish was about 680kgs LW. Was not a total HO to have graded O= at that weight but poor enough preformance after 2 long years at grass. I know that 2012 was poorish year but he had good grass from last June. Would be disappointed in him considered he graded

The Jex was 280 DW he had nothing going for him but he had a good level of finish but grading was killing him. He was a lot of 600kgs LW outpreformed the Fresian by 100kgs LW. Often hard to beat the preformance of Hybrids

Just sent 8 hol bullocks to factory today. Oldest was born 11/11/12 killed out 244 kg dw and graded O-3

Worst was P+2 and killed out 211 kg dw.

Was worth keeping them and feeding them over winter.

jaymla627

It's an observation it on the limits our passed it of a serious ketosis problem with the cows, bf ment to be low in early lactation then rise gradually it was at 6 % last week its a crazy figure for freshly calved cows no matter what the breeding,, their cell count certainly is noting spectacular at 380, 000 by the way...

stanflt

I love how some farmers can be so positive

delaval

They are no doubt milking off their backs. All are to some extent. I'd say there's lots of beistings in the tank aswell.

I'd say they're hoping for a turn in the weather, by chirps I am!!!!

I'm on a really dry farm with no drain and its incredible the amount of ponding around that said it improved a show today. It's the first spring ever that beat me but onwards and upwards!!!

mf240

Would maize silage be able to be sourced? Or have they lots of wholecrop?

What about picking out a dry field that needs reseeding and put racks in it and fill with wholecrop /maize/silage and let the cows fill up on it at night, then give them some grass during the day. Possibly do the same in another paddock for the lame and thin ones and leave them in it full time and milk once a day to build condition?.

maxxuumman

delaval wrote: »

They are no doubt milking off their backs. All are to some extent. I'd say there's lots of beistings in the tank aswell.

I'd say they're hoping for a turn in the weather, by chirps I am!!!!

I'm on a really dry farm with no drain and its incredible the amount of ponding around that said it improved a show today. It's the first spring ever that beat me but onwards and upwards!!!

Lads & lassies, just wondering would ye consider this spring worse than last year?

biddy2013

maxxuumman wrote: »

Lads & lassies, just wondering would ye consider this spring worse than last year?

no not yet. Last spring was ****e , had crap silage, no grass and no money. This year i have good silage, lots of grass and no money

mahoney_j

maxxuumman wrote: »

Lads & lassies, just wondering would ye consider this spring worse than last year?

Yes and no last year cows were out full time as were maidens ,this year out in fits and starts second full day out today and maidens still in.no slurry or urea out had 2500 glns slurry and bag of urea out and to be honest very little response.last year for most silage was more or less gone and poor quality anyway this year small bit more quantity and quality small bit better for most lads I'd say they would prefer last spring with this springs silage!!

Personally way more grass this spring and fields nice and green looking,they were yellow and hungry this time last year and purple last match/April from frost..have loads of very good quality silage and wraps left .im sort of undecided as to wether I liked this spring or last and they were both sh1t for different reasons

case 956

cows out tonight Mahoney j

delaval

maxxuumman wrote: »

Lads & lassies, just wondering would ye consider this spring worse than last year?

Good question. I can't say but I have a lot more grass anyhow

mahoney_j

case 956 wrote: »

cows out tonight Mahoney j

Yep but gap open and some nice grub waiting for them when they come down,mild night,breezy but no rain yet .just had a look at a few near calving and milkers side of shed empty so in happy

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yep but gap open and some nice grub waiting for them when they come down,mild night,breezy but no rain yet .just had a look at a few near calving and milkers side of shed empty so in happy

Did they come back in last night there selves?

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Did they come back in last night there selves?

I was in yard at 6.45 went for cows just before 7 andvtheyvwere comming to meet me

case 956

mahoney_j wrote: »

I was in yard at 6.45 went for cows just before 7 andvtheyvwere comming to meet me

would they not make fair sh1t of the roadway wandering up and down all night

mahoney_j

case 956 wrote: »

would they not make fair sh1t of the roadway wandering up and down all night

They didn't come down at all as floor of shed and cubicle beds bone dry.i find that if they come down once that's it as they've either skint the patch you've given them or it rained.

maxxuumman

Personally, I don't think it's as bad ( so far). As Mahoney said last year fert&slurry were out, but fields didn't have half as much grass as this year. Cows are in good nick and content after a good back end and a winter of good silage. The grass is there, once things dry up. Feed and fert prices are better than last spring, so it won't break the bank to shove the nuts into them. We're going into a few more months of good milk price.

kevthegaff

I have them out day and night, feed them for an hour in the evening before letting them out. Im getting a little tight on silage so needs be

Farmer Pudsey

I consider this year worse than last year at present. Will be difficult to let Beef cattle out March 1st. As well Unable to spread slurry or fertilizer. Ground temperatures are still droping. Last year whule growth was poor utilisation was excellent.

Not as much of an issue with Dairy farms where cows can graze for 2-3 hours and then be left back into yard and can be grazed during the day and not at night. If it drys up you could ahve exactly the same situtation as last year. A cold dry spring.

mahoney_j

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I consider this year worse than last year at present. Will be difficult to let Beef cattle out March 1st. As well Unable to spread slurry or fertilizer. Ground temperatures are still droping. Last year whule growth was poor utilisation was excellent.

Not as much of an issue with Dairy farms where cows can graze for 2-3 hours and then be left back into yard and can be grazed during the day and not at night. If it drys up you could ahve exactly the same situtation as last year. A cold dry spring.

I don't get it that dairy lads can get cows out for a few hours but for beef lads it a non runner.letting cattle out is the same as letting cows out for a few hours.they quickly get used to it.if you've roads and paddocks all u need is 2 reels of wire(front and back fence)and a few pigtails..that is of course if your sheds are in the same place as ur grazing block.

Clutch Pack

maxxuumman wrote: »

Lads & lassies, just wondering would ye consider this spring worse than last year?

No........not yet:rolleyes:

Greengrass1

Everything looks top notch there
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/pressure-is-increasing-and-the-weather-is-not-helping-154753/

Greengrass1

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/pressure-is-increasing-and-the-weather-is-not-helping-154753/

Farmer Pudsey

mahoney_j wrote: »

I don't get it that dairy lads can get cows out for a few hours but for beef lads it a non runner.letting cattle out is the same as letting cows out for a few hours.they quickly get used to it.if you've roads and paddocks all u need is 2 reels of wire(front and back fence)and a few pigtails..that is of course if your sheds are in the same place as ur grazing block.

Not a goer where you work and farm, also a big difference between 4-5 year old cows with a heavy udder and a 2 year old bullock that wants to gallop a half a mile. I usually cool cattle down before letting out in the spring. Beef cattle also have to be handeled in bunches not in one large mob. I have heifer's, Bullocks ( two different lots due to weight) and yearlings.

Shed is on one farm and I have a few acres elsewhere. Over the last 5 years since I put up shed I have got 2/3 of the cattle out March 1st. This will be the first year that it will not happen

sheebadog

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Everything looks top notch there
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/pressure-is-increasing-and-the-weather-is-not-helping-154753/

Delaval is correct. Nothing wrong with the condition of those cows. But good Lord those grazing conditions are almost biblical.
Would be hard to hold onto staff I reckon.

John_F

Greengrass1 wrote: »

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/pressure-is-increasing-and-the-weather-is-not-helping-154753/

video from the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ikv3BJ1io

don't know about top notch now hi. cows do look ok and there seems to be a nice bit of whole crop there... but them paddocks :eek: and as sheebadog says there wouldn't exactly be a que up to go working there.

mahoney_j

John_F wrote: »

video from the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ikv3BJ1io

don't know about top notch now hi. cows do look ok and there seems to be a nice bit of whole crop there... but them paddocks :eek: and as sheebadog says there wouldn't exactly be a que up to go working there.

+1 .some of them paddocks are a pure mess and will take a long time to recover.what was to be gained by turfing out cows on wet windy cold days I'll never know.just my observation but there now needs to be
1 an admission that the pad isn't working as running costs are too high.there is mobey in the bank,start converting it to topless cubicles so at least in inclement weather cows aren't out destroying fields because they can't be milked or stood off on pad due to scc mastitis issues
2 put in batch feeders into parlour.to ensure that if concentrate is been feed that all cows heifers get the required feed.if a 300 plus cow herd can't have this at least the it's all a matter
3 realise that they are milking cows in Ireland not New Zealand and adapt the system to suit.be more flexible with management

jaymla627

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Everything looks top notch there
http://www.farmersjournal.ie/pressure-is-increasing-and-the-weather-is-not-helping-154753/

Whats top notch the fact that they are destroying their grazing block because they have no way of housing cows, given the future grass growing losses due to poaching as the year progresses/fields going to have to be reseeded they've given themselves alot of headaches and we are only in the 3rd month of February

Gillespy

Good on them for letting such a video out. They can't be accused of hiding or sugar coating the truth at least. It does show that the rest of us aren't so stupid after all or just obsessed with buildings for vain reasons but for practical day to day reasons of milking cows.

mahoney_j

jaymla627 wrote: »

Whats top notch the fact that they are destroying their grazing block because they have no way of housing cows, given the future grass growing losses due to poaching as the year progresses/fields going to have to be reseeded they've given themselves alot of headaches and we are only in the 3rd month of February

Have to agree ,greengrass u can't for a minute believe everything there is top notch after watching that,cows wading through water,making a mess of paddocks which will affect production down the road.they really have learnt very little if weather over last 3 years is taken into account.the bog standard lowest possible cost model is now been shown up.even the kiwis are now starting to realise this.yes they will show money in the bank,but cow turnover is high,it is not self sufficient to make feed for the winter etc etc.the sad thing is lads see this as the role model to base their place on.proceed with caution

sheebadog

In all fairness there is definitely lots to be learned from this experiment.
You always learn a lot from extremes.
It would have been better running two parallel systems (repeating myself!).

awaywithyou

That video would bring you back to the 1800's and prob further.. The country isn't dotted with cubicle houses for the Craic of it....

maxxuumman

I'd say you'll see OC's going in this year. Jack hints at this in his article in the IFJ today. He's blaming the cost of the woodchip ( even though the cost is coming down) as a reason to look at alternative housing arrangements.
Given their present situation OC's would correct a lot of wrongs for them, ie wet paddocks, TBCs, SCC, etc.
OC's and a set of batch feeders and a lot of their woes would be gone. But then they'd be like a lot of farms in the country ( less the sheets of galvanise)

freedominacup

sheebadog wrote: »

In all fairness there is definitely lots to be learned from this experiment.
You always learn a lot from extremes.
It would have been better running two parallel systems (repeating myself!).

They'll ay they've done that already but I don't think they have ever done any research on high yielding holsteins managed correctly. They've always shoehorned them into a system that doesn't suit them and measured them against animals bred to suit the system. It's about as relevant as getting a couple of hundred of delavals jex's and dropping them into a confinement system with 10,000 HO giving 12-13000l in 305 days all fed TMR and saying the jex were useless because they were only giving half the milk and 60% of the solids of the HO despite all the feed they were eating.

kevthegaff

the paddocks they grazed didnt look too bad! obviously every farm has ponds of water in, but the cows seemed in resonable condition. How many acres have they, they must ha ve a fair bit if there not finished the first rotation till april. Cant believe they dont have batch feeders, theyre cheep and reliable and beats bucketing around meal in a wheelbarrow

sheebadog

freedominacup wrote: »

They'll ay they've done that already but I don't think they have ever done any research on high yielding holsteins managed correctly. They've always shoehorned them into a system that doesn't suit them and measured them against animals bred to suit the system. It's about as relevant as getting a couple of hundred of delavals jex's and dropping them into a confinement system with 10,000 HO giving 12-13000l in 305 days all fed TMR and saying the jex were useless because they were only giving half the milk and 60% of the solids of the HO despite all the feed they were eating.

Very insightful Freedom. I've nothing to add.

Greengrass1

mahoney_j wrote: »

Have to agree ,greengrass u can't for a minute believe everything there is top notch after watching that,cows wading through water,making a mess of paddocks which will affect production down the road.they really have learnt very little if weather over last 3 years is taken into account.the bog standard lowest possible cost model is now been shown up.even the kiwis are now starting to realise this.yes they will show money in the bank,but cow turnover is high,it is not self sufficient to make feed for the winter etc etc.the sad thing is lads see this as the role model to base their place on.proceed with caution

You wouldn't want to come to my farm so.
You would die before ye did a bit of work.
This farm is only operating for 3 yrs. I think it is doing very well.
They started in the toughest year for milk price.
Ye can't have your cake and eat it. They built what they so far from a bank loan

mahoney_j

Greengrass1 wrote: »

You wouldn't want to come to my farm so.
You would die before ye did a bit of work.
This farm is only operating for 3 yrs. I think it is doing very well.
They started in the toughest year for milk price.
Ye can't have your cake and eat it. They built what they so far from a bank loan

I work hard ,as hard as any dairy farmer this time of year and come on it ain't about working yourself into an early grave and clicking up 16 17 hour days just to mKe ur self feel better.my argument with this project is that it is been flogged as nearly the only show in town for guys getting into cows,low cost ,only supplement cows when up really have to,once a cow calves she goes to grass straight away no matter what the weather.just because that's the way the kiwis do it.they don't have the cop on or pocess the management skills to realise they are running this farm in Ireland and Irish conditions are worse than the majority of kiwi conditions.
Cows look in good knick yes but they've had a good winter on good silage/hay/whole crop.now they are undoing all that good by putting cows into a negative energy balance.give it another 2 or 3 weeks once cows have had to endure current feed levels and then well see.production will be back,fertility will be affected as will re growth on paddocks that were poached.
I was on that farm 3 times and know exactly how dry it is,seeing pools of water on roads and paddocks now really tells me that the place is pretty bad and border line fit to be grazing 180 cows.ffs they aren't even self sufficient in building a fodder bank for winter and to cover summer droughts.more interested in overstocking the farm .250 cows is about right for that place at moment till they can get soil index and organic matter right.its like a lot of lads starting and currently milking cows all they want is nos because Tegasc tell them to stock farm at such a level without even thinking how much grass they can grow,wintering facilities etc

farmerjack

mahoney_j wrote: »

I work hard ,as hard as any dairy farmer this time of year and come on it ain't about working yourself into an early grave and clicking up 16 17 hour days just to mKe ur self feel better.my argument with this project is that it is been flogged as nearly the only show in town for guys getting into cows,low cost ,only supplement cows when up really have to,once a cow calves she goes to grass straight away no matter what the weather.just because that's the way the kiwis do it.they don't have the cop on or pocess the management skills to realise they are running this farm in Ireland and Irish conditions are worse than the majority of kiwi conditions.
Cows look in good knick yes but they've had a good winter on good silage/hay/whole crop.now they are undoing all that good by putting cows into a negative energy balance.give it another 2 or 3 weeks once cows have had to endure current feed levels and then well see.production will be back,fertility will be affected as will re growth on paddocks that were poached.
I was on that farm 3 times and know exactly how dry it is,seeing pools of water on roads and paddocks now really tells me that the place is pretty bad and border line fit to be grazing 180 cows.ffs they aren't even self sufficient in building a fodder bank for winter and to cover summer droughts.more interested in overstocking the farm .250 cows is about right for that place at moment till they can get soil index and organic matter right.its like a lot of lads starting and currently milking cows all they want is nos because Tegasc tell them to stock farm at such a level without even thinking how much grass they can grow,wintering facilities etc

No one from teagasc or any one related.to the greenfield has ever sold it to me as the only show in town, my understanding of the project is that it was established in order to show the challenges that will face large scale conversions on a high level of debt and IMO there doing a bloody good job of it. They are honest and frank about everything that goes on down there

On a side note I'm sick to the teeth of people bashing this project not just on this forum mind you but elsewhere too. If this project was carried out anywhere else it would be applauded. Rant over

mahoney_j

Well my interpretation of it is just that,u have to do it at low cost asvposdible(no great issue with that),have to do it with x breeds,have to do it with as much grass as pissible(no issue with that as long as supplementation is provided in spring ,autumn andvthrough droughts to an adequate level).so many guys are buying it as gospel and the only way to go .imo a lot if guys aren't educated well enough in managing a milking cow from a feed and nutrition point of view and this is where greenfield system will break them.
We have nitrates directives to follow ,slurry storage to be in place etc.also our climate and cost of keeping woodchip on a pad and water out of the lagoon from it empty have made them in unviable now on top of the fact that cows can't be milked or stood off on them.