Leftovers [HBO] [** Spoilers **]

stronglikebull

Holy. Fkking. Sht. That was something else. It gets weirder and weirder with each episode, and yet better and better. Just don't even know how to comprehend what happened there.

Marje

Another brilliant episode. There is usually 1 or 2 characters I can find fault in most shows but not this one, they're all very good.

I noticed when Michael and Jill were talking into the church

the following sign was hung up on the wall

And they both went down into the water Act 8:38.

Wonder has this to do with Kevin trying to drown himself. The main poster this season has Kevin and Nora in water.

I'm probably totally misreading it.

Anachrony

I'm guessing that during the earlier visit the grandfather was being sincere, but by the evening he found out the handprint was a match and was holding him responsible for the disappearances. However, I would expect that John would want to interrogate him first for possible information about what happened to his daughter rather than just immediately murder him and never have any answers.

One possibility is that he misrepresented the drug he was giving him and it knocked him out without killing him, so he'll awake tied up in the presence of a very angry, grieving father who thinks he killed his daughter. The way it happened doesn't quite add up, but neither does killing him before asking questions.

charkee

What an ending. The series is brilliant.

degrassinoel

was not expecting that

I just bought the first season box set for the folks based off of last night's episode

Cina

Quite the ending.

You just know the next episode will be a Laurie and Tommy one, now...

castletownman

Speechless. Focking hell.

When he started pouring the antidote onto the floor I found myself cursing at the television to an extent last seen in the final scene of the most recent season of Game of Thrones. Crestfallen.

Chain Smoker

I assume the old fella killed himself because otherwise Kevin would follow him in the same way as Patti wound up following Kevin? Theroux has been great but I hope he stays dead if he is indeed dead, there's enough happening, no need to throw resurrections in

Show's really great, season two is a radical step up too.

Anachrony

Anachrony wrote: »

I'm guessing that during the earlier visit the grandfather was being sincere, but by the evening he found out the handprint was a match and was holding him responsible for the disappearances. However, I would expect that John would want to interrogate him first for possible information about what happened to his daughter rather than just immediately murder him and never have any answers.

One possibility is that he misrepresented the drug he was giving him and it knocked him out without killing him, so he'll awake tied up in the presence of a very angry, grieving father who thinks he killed his daughter. The way it happened doesn't quite add up, but neither does killing him before asking questions.

That's an interesting idea! Maybe the grandson, knowing what was going to happen, swapped out the poison with something that would only knock him out.

When he sprayed the drug on the floor, I literally said, "what the hell are you doing?!"

Azalea

Anachrony wrote: »

I'm guessing that during the earlier visit the grandfather was being sincere, but by the evening he found out the handprint was a match and was holding him responsible for the disappearances. However, I would expect that John would want to interrogate him first for possible information about what happened to his daughter rather than just immediately murder him and never have any answers.

One possibility is that he misrepresented the drug he was giving him and it knocked him out without killing him, so he'll awake tied up in the presence of a very angry, grieving father who thinks he killed his daughter. The way it happened doesn't quite add up, but neither does killing him before asking questions.

I like that theory. Although, definitely Kev's handprint?

degrassinoel wrote: »

was not expecting that

I just bought the first season box set for the folks based off of last night's episode

I will convert people to this show if it's the last thing I do. All my gushing praise isn't even slightly overselling it.

irish son

I wonder will we get an episode focusing on what Liv Tyler's character has been up to since season 1 when not raping.

Tristram

Kevin is one of the loneliest TV characters I've seen. This season has blown me away in terms of consistency. Gobsmacked.

stevenmu

Anachrony wrote: »

I'm guessing that during the earlier visit the grandfather was being sincere, but by the evening he found out the handprint was a match and was holding him responsible for the disappearances. However, I would expect that John would want to interrogate him first for possible information about what happened to his daughter rather than just immediately murder him and never have any answers.

One possibility is that he misrepresented the drug he was giving him and it knocked him out without killing him, so he'll awake tied up in the presence of a very angry, grieving father who thinks he killed his daughter. The way it happened doesn't quite add up, but neither does killing him before asking questions.

I was thinking something similar,

but I'm guessing that John found out about the handprint and made the granddad give Kevin some knock out drug instead. The son is going to take Kevin to John to interrogate him.

Patti mentioned something about the granddad being a pedophile, so presumably he abused one of John's kids, so maybe John offered to forgive him and let him die if he did this.

MargeS

They are both going to be buried in boxes in the woods and rise after 3 days...

Anachrony

Azalea wrote: »

I like that theory. Although, definitely Kev's handprint?

Didn't we see him make it? He woke up from sleepwalking at the bottom of a drained lake after trying to kill himself. He wandered up the hill, confused, heard a car with lights and music on, and went up to it. He found it was locked with nobody inside and peered inside the window. At that point his hand, muddy from the lake bottom, was pressed up against the window. Then he saw John's truck pull up and ran to hide.

johnpatrick81

So frikkin great. Some great theories on the ending by you guys. I hope it's the one about

John offering his dad redemption if he killed Kevin, the son dragging him outside and popping the magic stuff into him to revive him after he has tied him up so they then go and interrogate him.

The show is so good. I loved Lori's summation of what he was going through. It manages to play with some of the biggest issues in life. The mind. Fascinating stuff.

Azalea

stevenmu, Virgil (the old guy) said he did terrible things to John a long time ago (based on instructions by his "adversary" - his "Patti" if you will) and then John got revenge on him which landed John in prison for attempted murder, but from which Virgil derived a "rebirth" (following a showdown at "the other side" with his adversary) - so I assume John was his son whom he abused in childhood.

I don't think John was even speaking to Virgil, as there was an earlier scene where Michael (his son) told his mother he was regularly visiting his grandfather to pray with him, and Michael's mother warned him of how John would react if he found out he was having anything to do with him (a concern you could understand).

But of course there's probably a backstory to what ended up happening and which Michael was aware of. Their history doesn't mean John and Virgil didn't end up speaking again and plotting against Kevin regarding the handprint.

Wouldn't be surprised if something totally different comes to a head though. It's really stunning television!

irish son

I can't see that Virgil killed him on behalf of John, its just not that kind of show.

MargeS

irish son wrote: »

I can't see that Virgil killed him on behalf of John, its just not that kind of show.

I agree. Besides didn't Virgil tell Kevin he needed a guide 'on the other side'. So he had to kill himself either to 'get rid' of Patti or bring Kevin back.

johnpatrick81

MargeS wrote: »

I agree. Besides didn't Virgil tell Kevin he needed a guide 'on the other side'. So he had to kill himself either to 'get rid' of Patti or bring Kevin back.

Ummm, I don't think there's much chance of him coming back from a bullet to the brain! He's a goner! Kevin just needs reviving.

Azalea

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Ummm, I don't think there's much chance of him coming back from a bullet to the brain! He's a goner! Kevin just needs reviving.

I think that's what Marge means though - that Virgil killed himself to be there to guide Kevin on the other side in his battle with Patti.

Anachrony

Another possibility is that Virgil has an entirely different metaphysical explanation in mind for what is going on. He thinks people experiencing visions like Kevin are possessed by evil spirits or something. We already had one reference to demonic possession recently. So he could think he's doing the right thing to kill someone experiencing this, somehow. In that case, it could be a plan that he had in motion already, before anything to do with the handprint.

MargeS wrote: »

I agree. Besides didn't Virgil tell Kevin he needed a guide 'on the other side'. So he had to kill himself either to 'get rid' of Patti or bring Kevin back.

Err, if he's that selfless for the first random white dude to cross his path, then that bit of lampshading about being a "Magical Negro" trope was spot on. It's one thing to help him, but to shoot himself with no other motive than to potentially help take this stranger on some spiritual journey is going a bit far. Why not take the poison and have the grandson revive both of them?

If he has to blow his brains out to help someone, then was he lying about that weird guy in the tower being a success story? If he's lying about that, we don't know what to take at face value.

MargeS wrote: »

They are both going to be buried in boxes in the woods and rise after 3 days...

I like this idea. They spent some time on that whole bird in a box idea, so they could be going somewhere with that, or not. They could have been misrepresenting the ordeal and amount of risk involved to Kevin. It seems like burying the birds has a high failure rate, so he may not have gone for it.

However, this idea doesn't explain Virgil's suicide. If he had the guilt of betraying someone who came to him for help, coupled with the redemption of doing it to help his estranged family, that combination makes some sense for why someone would take that moment to end their own life. His son may not want anything to do with him, but he is still in communication with what's going on with the family via Michael, and he clearly wishes to atone somehow for his past.

jcsoulinger

Great and very unexpected ending to a very good episode, Kevin is defiantly stealing the show at the moment would love to see it carry on directly in the next episode but I know the chances are slim.

I would be surprised if Kevin is killed off but ya never know with this show.

I don't see John and Virgil conspiring to capture Kevin, If John wanted to interrogate Kevin he would not need any help from Virgil he also wouldn't have Michael mixed up in it.

Its hard to say but I reckon what he did was all planned the syringe was just for show to convince Kevin to drink the potion. It being his intention to kill Kevin or just knock him out as some elaborate exercising of the demons remains to be seen.

Is Patti really haunting Kevin or is Laurie right when she says Kevin has lost it? the scene in the hardware would suggest she is real as Kevin couldn't see the card in the kids hand but Patti said it was a duck I'd say she's real but its not conclusive.

Anachrony

jcsoulinger wrote: »

I don't see John and Virgil conspiring to capture Kevin, If John wanted to interrogate Kevin he would not need any help from Virgil he also wouldn't have Michael mixed up in it.

It wouldn't be John's plan, no. It would be Virgil's spontaneous plan on his own initiative, based on the recent news from Michael. John wants nothing to do with Virgil, but Virgil wants to help John.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the girls Disappear on the day that the bird came back to life? God knows what would happen if two people came back.

Honestly I'd be worried about that kind of stuff, because it would really be veering into Lost levels of out there. Ignoring the Vanishing itself, the great thing about this show is that it is grounded in some kind of reality and people coming back from the dead/demon possession would be a bit too much.

Azalea

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Is Patti really haunting Kevin or is Laurie right when she says Kevin has lost it? the scene in the hardware would suggest she is real as Kevin couldn't see the card in the kids hand but Patti said it was a duck I'd say she's real but its not conclusive.

And she knew Nora had packed up and walked out on Kevin before he or Jill did.

Although she might just have been a manifestation of his subconscious - deep down he knew kinda thing. It's like when you dream something that comes true, because you knew deep down it would.

I wonder how Kevin going to that grandfather's house the first time fits in to the timeline? Was it before or after the meeting in the registration office? I might be wrong, but didn't the grandfather know Patti was there at that point?

johnpatrick81

Not sure if it was already mentioned, but with the earthquake and the water disappearing, did nobody think the girls might have been swimming and disappeared down a sink hole, with the water?!

GottaGetGatt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wonder how Kevin going to that grandfather's house the first time fits in to the timeline? Was it before or after the meeting in the registration office? I might be wrong, but didn't the grandfather know Patti was there at that point?

He went there the night the girls went missing before he woke up in the lake. It's explained in this episode.

GottaGetGatt

GottaGetGatt wrote: »

He went there the night the girls went missing before he woke up in the lake. It's explained in this episode.

Oh really? That makes sense. Must have missed that. So he already knew that Patti was there when they were in the registration?

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Not sure if it was already mentioned, but with the earthquake and the water disappearing, did nobody think the girls might have been swimming and disappeared down a sink hole, with the water?!

Would the sinkhole have been big enough for them to go down? I mean, we saw the lake and there wasn't anything there that made it look that way.

johnpatrick81

If not, then I'd imagine it turns out they were proper kidnapped.

jcsoulinger

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Not sure if it was already mentioned, but with the earthquake and the water disappearing, did nobody think the girls might have been swimming and disappeared down a sink hole, with the water?!

Thats what I suspected when they first disappeared but a search of the sink hole in a later episode discounted this as a possibility, You would still wonder about it tho as there have been cases of people going down sink holes and the body never being recovered.

unplayable

for a show who's premise is so unbelievable the pain and struggles of kevin are incredibly real and thought provoking. have to give huge credit to justin theroux for his performance. I had heard of him before this but never really been impressed by him.

blown away by his acting in this show.

beardo81

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Thats what I suspected when they first disappeared but a search of the sink hole in a later episode discounted this as a possibility, You would still wonder about it tho as there have been cases of people going down sink holes and the body never being recovered.

There's was something off with those girls, when people were around they behaved normally but alone in the car in one scene, silence. Then the scene of them running through the woods too. Doubt a sink hole got them, or Kevin for that matter.

There's a lot to explain in the last few episodes!

MargeS

One thing is for sure... episode 8 can't come quick enough.

Promo for Ep 8

AlmightyCushion

This is one of those shows that I wish someone had told me about years from now after it all had aired and I could binge watch the crap out of it. Having to wait a week after an episode like that one is absolutely torture.

jcsoulinger

Anachrony wrote: »

It wouldn't be John's plan, no. It would be Virgil's spontaneous plan on his own initiative, based on the recent news from Michael. John wants nothing to do with Virgil, but Virgil wants to help John.

Ya its a fairly plausible conclusion but some how I just don't see it myself, why did he kill himself so quickly after Kevin passed out, I also don't think Michael knows anything about the hand print.

Hopefully we will get some answers sooner than later.

jcsoulinger

beardo81 wrote: »

There's was something off with those girls, when people were around they behaved normally but alone in the car in one scene, silence. Then the scene of them running through the woods too. Doubt a sink hole got them, or Kevin for that matter.

There's a lot to explain in the last few episodes!

I wouldn't read too much into the silence in the car, They are going to run out of stuff to talk about at some point.

The running through the woods craic is massive tho I wonder could it have been a flash forward to the girls escaping.

castletownman

I wonder is there a correalation between the bird hovering over the cave woman in the opening scene, and the fact the girls seemed to disappear on the same day Erica realised the bird from the box? And it appears that the chirping within the house that was driving John wrong has stopped too (although there isn't enough conclusive proof here).

There has to be a link between the three, I just can't figure out what it could be.

Azalea

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

This is one of those shows that I wish someone had told me about years from now after it all had aired and I could binge watch the crap out of it. Having to wait a week after an episode like that one is absolutely torture.

I actually like that - makes it all the sweeter if you have to wait.

jcsoulinger wrote: »

I wouldn't read too much into the silence in the car, They are going to run out of stuff to talk about at some point.

Yeah those silences happen even between close friends. But was there something a bit weird about this particular incident? As there has been a bit of talk about it.

Foxtrol

I’m sticking with my thinking that there’s nothing supernatural going on here aside from the departing (which may not even be supernatural).

They made plenty of signs that Virgil had several screws loose so I wouldn’t put too much faith that he had a well laid out, logical plan. I’m sure he had some sort of motive but it doesn’t mean what he did to Kevin or his suicide is going to make total sense.

Anachrony

Azalea wrote: »

Yeah those silences happen even between close friends. But was there something a bit weird about this particular incident? As there has been a bit of talk about it.

The editing highlighted it, quickly cutting to an otherwise irrelevant scene, with even the music cut off. And it's not a long, dull road trip. It's only a short distance outside of town. They didn't really have time to run out of things to say when they seemed to have things to say before leaving and when arriving. It's like they flipped a switch and their whole mood changed, the moment they weren't being observed. Like they were putting on a show for bystanders, while inside their heads something completely different was going on.

I thought it supported the idea that they were in some weird conspiracy to fake their disappearance. They wanted to be seen publicly to be ordinary, happy kids just having a good time, but when in private they were somber and troubled. At the lake was a witness, so they're having fun. At home there are people around. But in between it's just them so they drop the facade.

The hoax explanation doesn't help explain them running naked through the woods, since in the original disappearances clothing vanished as well.

Chain Smoker

I really enjoyed the whole bit about the chalice in cairo, the way it was edited so that it didn't drop the serious music and Kevin continued to take it seriously way beyond the point where it was clear it was a joke amused me no end. Especially considering I'm after spending the whole season so far waiting for Kevin to ask that question.

Deathwish4

Chain Smoker wrote: »

I really enjoyed the whole bit about the chalice in cairo, the way it was edited so that it didn't drop the serious music and Kevin continued to take it seriously way beyond the point where it was clear it was a joke amused me no end. Especially considering I'm after spending the whole season so far waiting for Kevin to ask that question.

I hope Patti Levin still has a role to play. She's hilarious.

Mc Love

Oh my word, what an episode. Seriously think this is one of the best shows on TV at the moment

Foxtrol

Foxtrol wrote: »

I’m sticking with my thinking that there’s nothing supernatural going on here aside from the departing (which may not even be supernatural).

They made plenty of signs that Virgil had several screws loose so I wouldn’t put too much faith that he had a well laid out, logical plan. I’m sure he had some sort of motive but it doesn’t mean what he did to Kevin or his suicide is going to make total sense.

What do you think happened to 2% of the population, if it wasn't supernatural?

Walter Bishop

If the last episode didn't drive away the uncommitted, this one definitely will. Personally I loved it

MargeS

Walter Bishop wrote: »

If the last episode didn't drive away the uncommitted, this one definitely will. Personally I loved it

13 mins in.... WTF?

Great episode.

It was a really good episode, with a great closing scene, but I just really worry that they're doing a Lost more than anything else. Starts off relatively normal, with some supernatural/unexplained stuff and then suddenly time travelling nuclear bomb exploding alternate realities crud. Please, please reign in your craziness, Lindelof. Don't screw up this show as well.

Shane St.

That was a bit crazy!