Gabe Newell - PC/Linux gaming and Steambox

Robert ninja

^ Read more of the feedback. In short, nobody can properly describe it by comparisons to other controllers, mouse or touchpads. In other words, we have no idea what it's like until we get our hands on it ourselves so saying anything about it like we'll like or dislike it is pointless - it's something new.

stevenmu

My first thought looking at it was "no fcuking way will that be any good, it's just another stupid gimmick".

But on the other hand, Valve have been very open about saying that all the other motion gimmick stuff doesn't work and that they'd only get on board with something that works really well. It's very possible that they've come up with something much better than the traditional joystick type controller.

Although I won't really believe in it until I can try it out for myself.

jaykhunter

Radiosonde

stevenmu wrote: »

But on the other hand, Valve have been very open about saying that all the other motion gimmick stuff doesn't work and that they'd only get on board with something that works really well.

They did talk about using sensors that monitor your pulse (I think) to see how 'tense' you are - which sounds like the height of gimmickry (though obviously must have abandoned that idea.)

I quite like the look of it though. Was about time someone tried to shake up the traditional controller layout a bit. Sony and Microsoft seem content to stick with minor variations on this gen's controllers.

spankmaster2000

Robert ninja

without touchscreen


Diagram

C14N

Looks kind of strange but at least it's interesting. I'm a little worried about stuff like games that would normally use WASD to move around. Do we have to keep scrolling up on the left pad to move forward? Because that would get tiring quickly.

danthefan

C14N wrote: »

Looks kind of strange but at least it's interesting. I'm a little worried about stuff like games that would normally use WASD to move around. Do we have to keep scrolling up on the left pad to move forward? Because that would get tiring quickly.

I doubt it, that would be seriously rubbish. If it did work like that I would never use this controller anyway.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

surely you could just set the left trackpad to respond to presses instead of scrolls for those games

nesf

shruikan2553 wrote: »

For a lot of games but if this thing works as well as they say then games like RTSs would be playable with a controller. Whether or not it will meet their claims is another thing. Cant be cheap either.

I'm trying to picture playing an RTS with that controller or any kind of touch device and failing to see how it would work given that hotkeys (many, many of them) are a crucial component in these games. You need keys for quick selecting groups, depending on playstyle this can be 4 or 5 or 10. At least 10-15 to cover actions in a game like SC II. And then another 5 or so to cover various camera shortcuts and similar and finally a few global hotkeys to combine with the above for splitting, adding to or changing group selections or actions.

I find it hard to believe any serious RTS player is saying you could play one with one of these. You might be able to control one sure, but play competitively? Not a chance.

C14N

nesf wrote: »

I'm trying to picture playing an RTS with that controller or any kind of touch device and failing to see how it would work given that hotkeys (many, many of them) are a crucial component in these games. You need keys for quick selecting groups, depending on playstyle this can be 4 or 5 or 10. At least 10-15 to cover actions in a game like SC II. And then another 5 or so to cover various camera shortcuts and similar and finally a few global hotkeys to combine with the above for splitting, adding to or changing group selections or actions.

I find it hard to believe any serious RTS player is saying you could play one with one of these. You might be able to control one sure, but play competitively? Not a chance.

Yeah but it's really not aimed at serious, competitive RTS players. This is Valve trying to attract a more casual, living-room audience, not switch all of PC gamers to a new default control system. If you just have an average person who might want to give Age of Empires or Rome: Total War a go now and again, it could be fine for stuff like that, it sounds like they're at least confident it works better than the dreadful RTS ports to current consoles..

NTMK

nesf wrote: »

I'm trying to picture playing an RTS with that controller or any kind of touch device and failing to see how it would work given that hotkeys (many, many of them) are a crucial component in these games. You need keys for quick selecting groups, depending on playstyle this can be 4 or 5 or 10. At least 10-15 to cover actions in a game like SC II. And then another 5 or so to cover various camera shortcuts and similar and finally a few global hotkeys to combine with the above for splitting, adding to or changing group selections or actions.

I find it hard to believe any serious RTS player is saying you could play one with one of these. You might be able to control one sure, but play competitively? Not a chance.

unbelieveably someone got into Masters (top 2%) using an xbox controller but this isnt aimed at competitive games but i could see myself playing Civ and Total war with it if its any good

ill be buying one to try it out but i (and tbh none of us) can comment until a decent amount of people have used it

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

NTMK wrote: »

unbelieveably someone got into Masters (top 2%) using an xbox controller but this isnt aimed at competitive games but i could see myself playing Civ and Total war with it if its any good

ill be buying one to try it out but i (and tbh none of us) can comment until a decent amount of people have used it

he was playing protoss though, doesn't really count

Robert ninja

C14N wrote: »

Looks kind of strange but at least it's interesting. I'm a little worried about stuff like games that would normally use WASD to move around. Do we have to keep scrolling up on the left pad to move forward? Because that would get tiring quickly.

I'm almost positive they wouldn't design it to work like that... it just defies all reason. I'd say it would simulate an analogue stick more, you move you thumb to the top of the track pad, essentially like moving your thumb upwards to hold the sticks upwards. The higher you go, the faster you move in FPS games. That's actually something PC games miss out on, sensitive character movement. It's either run or walk, nothing in between. Then again, there's no guarantee the steam controller can do that with games that have absolutely no controller support seeing as how the steam controller would then just be tricking the game into thinking its a keyboard and mouse (their words, not mine). So each area of the track pad would be a roll-over WASD, left being A, up being W etc. But it's not a stretch too far to think that you could just say the top most part of the track pad is run while only slightly above middle is walk.

Gbear

I can't imagine using those pads would be great for your fingers.

After lengthy sessions I could see the skin on your fingers getting irritated.

nesf

C14N wrote: »

Yeah but it's really not aimed at serious, competitive RTS players. This is Valve trying to attract a more casual, living-room audience, not switch all of PC gamers to a new default control system. If you just have an average person who might want to give Age of Empires or Rome: Total War a go now and again, it could be fine for stuff like that, it sounds like they're at least confident it works better than the dreadful RTS ports to current consoles..

True enough. I think I read the statement too generally. When you can pause like in the Total War games any slowness in terms of control wouldn't be an issue.

nesf

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

he was playing protoss though, doesn't really count

Was it in the Protoss Death Ball (tm) days? (I haven't kept up with the meta for a fair bit)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

dont remember, i only watched his stream once and he 4gated every game i saw

C14N

Robert ninja wrote: »

I'm almost positive they wouldn't design it to work like that... it just defies all reason. I'd say it would simulate an analogue stick more, you move you thumb to the top of the track pad, essentially like moving your thumb upwards to hold the sticks upwards. The higher you go, the faster you move in FPS games. That's actually something PC games miss out on, sensitive character movement. It's either run or walk, nothing in between. Then again, there's no guarantee the steam controller can do that with games that have absolutely no controller support seeing as how the steam controller would then just be tricking the game into thinking its a keyboard and mouse (their words, not mine). So each area of the track pad would be a roll-over WASD, left being A, up being W etc. But it's not a stretch too far to think that you could just say the top most part of the track pad is run while only slightly above middle is walk.

Well you never know. A lot of PC games have a "run" button to move faster or a "walk" button to move slower, maybe they could incorporate that into the trackpad some way so pushing further up would make it push the "run" button.

Overheal

Im a bit annoyed that Valve used the HL3 cult following to fuel the hype around this console announcement by spacing it out into 3 separate press releases

Robert ninja

C14N wrote: »

Well you never know. A lot of PC games have a "run" button to move faster or a "walk" button to move slower, maybe they could incorporate that into the trackpad some way so pushing further up would make it push the "run" button.

That's kind of exactly what I said. Maybe I didn't explain it clearly. I was saying PC games it's either walk or run (and then crouch for sneak or whatever). Where as with console games there's usually always every sensitivity in between those depending on how much the player pushes the sticks. It's not a huge issue I suppose, but it's something.

Jet Black

Duggy747

Overheal wrote: »

Im a bit annoyed that Valve used the HL3 cult following to fuel the hype around this console announcement by spacing it out into 3 separate press releases

What better way to drum up attention and get the rumour mill churning?

Still cùntish :pac:

wyrn

Even though I was pretty sure there wasn't going to be a HL3 announcement, it was still an awful tease. I was kinda hoping for a new source engine too.

Not sure how I feel about the controller. I love using a keyboard. I'll still give it a go and see but I don't know if I'll be a convert.

Teasing the whole thing out over 3 days was completely overkill for what was announced and definitely trolling :pac:

Genghiz Cohen

A message from "Gabe Newell"

Had high hopes for this one but, as usual, it missed the point.
You don't look forward to HL3 because you want more of the same. You do it because each one is new and different and does innovate, and does tell a great story that we are invested in. It builds the mystery of a world where you know so little and are forced to make do. If Valve thought they weren't up to making HL3 yet or the industry wasn't at a point where they thought they had the resources to make it, I'd prefer to know rather than the endless hypetrain that comes with every little announcement.

So here I am, waiting for the next Source game to get updated. Praying for an ARG. Something. Anything. Because if Valve wanted to cash-in on the Half Life series, they would have done it years ago.
And so I hope.

Overheal

Im still kind of offended he called us sh*t-wizards, but ok. It is a fake letter. But lets just humor the thought, because **** it why not.

Thats not what pisses me off about not hearing about HL3, its that they aren't discussing anything about it. To date all I can think of to say about the title is Portal Guns and Sign Language. Its OK to let fans know what your thought process is, isn't it? If you can't revolutionize the IP any farther, you should have considered giving it its due climax already and then it would be over and we'd all talk about something else like the next exciting batch of hats for TF2. Just saying. Speaking of sh*t-wizarding sequel-puke.

And that STILL doesn't address my existing complaint: if he wants to make a console thats fine and even wonderful, and revolutionary, but using the 3 separate announcements to do it was a great way to whore out the hype for it, at the expense of something their fans are being patient about. It was a rickroll in a sense. And whats more, they knew that. And they did it anyway.

AlmightyCushion

Any one who expected a half life 3 announcement there was an idiot. Hope for it sure, but don't expect it.

Also, I think they're right not to say anything about hl3. The moment they say anything, is the moment the already over hyped hype train goes into over load. We all know they are working on it.

nesf

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Also, I think they're right not to say anything about hl3. The moment they say anything, is the moment the already over hyped hype train goes into over load. We all know they are working on it.

Exactly. The expectation is already out there that it'll be ground breaking and excellent. If they mention any kind of game feature, the expectation for a new level of perfection in that game feature will sprout instantly and they'll have immense difficulty meeting that.

I can kind of understand why they wouldn't want to make HL3.

Dave_The_Sheep

Yeah, sure they were using the HL3 hype and internet-obesssion with it to publicise their new announcements. While also trolling the **** out of large portions of the internet. Which I am completely OK with. It's not their fault the internet/hype-machine goes crazy about everything that possibly even close to being about HL3. So they pull the piss a bit. Grand.

Doge

Jet Black wrote: »

That is absolute genius!

cherryghost

Gamestop are a bunch of ****tards, it really blows my mind. Lad on their FB page says he'll prob get a PS4 and a Steambox after GS asking what console of choice are they getting, and Gamestop go on a rant about having to spend thousands of euro to build and upgrade the PC's? Bunch of mindless dopes. There's a few other PC statements and Gamestop just completely bashing it to the ground.

Monotype

cherryghost wrote: »

Gamestop are a bunch of ****tards, it really blows my mind. Lad on their FB page says he'll prob get a PS4 and a Steambox after GS asking what console of choice are they getting, and Gamestop go on a rant about having to spend thousands of euro to build and upgrade the PC's? Bunch of mindless dopes. There's a few other PC statements and Gamestop just completely bashing it to the ground.

Be sure to update it every 5 months or just get a €5000 rig all at once It will be one or the other to play new PC games.

:rolleyes:

Well of course they're going to bash it - how much money are they going to make from them? They rarely enough sell any PC games and they don't make any money from selling PCs or second hand games.
On the other hand, they should be talking up consoles rather than just saying complete rubbish, especially since they're representing a company.

Overheal

cherryghost wrote: »

Gamestop are a bunch of ****tards, it really blows my mind. Lad on their FB page says he'll prob get a PS4 and a Steambox after GS asking what console of choice are they getting, and Gamestop go on a rant about having to spend thousands of euro to build and upgrade the PC's? Bunch of mindless dopes. There's a few other PC statements and Gamestop just completely bashing it to the ground.

Whatever brainwashed part-timer they have working their facebook account is an idiot.

GUFFAW! Next year a new €800 GPU will be out to make your PC look inferior!

Uh, it will make the console look inferior too? I mean, how does their argument NOT apply to consoles? He makes it sound like the consoles are in some kind of hyperbolic time shield, invulnerable from the realities of Moore's Law.

But I guess it IS hard to trade in and resell PC games. They shouldnt be that blatantly obvious about it though

as a matter of coincidence I dropped by a gamestop for the first time in a dogs age because I saw in the window they sell tablets now. They're set up like a gaming pawn shop, with ipods all over the wall, used games, and a rake of Wii Fit boards under one of the dump bins.

I mean for what they are, I'm surprised they aren't trying to support PC Gaming at all. What would be so difficult about putting out a Gaming PC model? Sell a graphics card or two. Sh(t.

_CreeD_

I'm not too impressed tbh. At the end of the day a controller is not a kbd&mouse, a touch-pad is not the latter no matter how sensitive (besides laptop based I've used thumb-touch-pads before with the Linovo mini). A mouse/kbd does not work for couch play (without a lot of fiddling) and a controller does not work for anything that requires control finesse/detail/complexity. They each have their place but I find it ridiculous every time someone claims one can do the job of the other without (or with little) issue, even the lord Gaben.

Dyr

I liked how they said the controller is APPROACHING keyboard and mouse levels of accuracy/resolution

Monotype

Overheal wrote: »

Sell a graphics card or two.

Only thing is that graphics cards are probably the fastest depreciating component in the world of PCs. Then you'd probably need to offer more support that your average console needs. I'm sure they could sell some over-priced support to go with it, but then you'll need to employ people who have more who know about them which will cost more...

I think with the steam approval thing, they could actually do it if they wanted. It sets some standards and I think that they could sell in small quantities or they could be a gateway for ordering them.

Genghiz Cohen

Steam Universe wrote:

The 300 prototype units will ship with the following components:
GPU: some units with NVidia Titan, some GTX780, some GTX760, and some GTX660
CPU: some boxes with Intel : i7-4770, some i5-4570, and some i3
RAM: 16GB DDR3-1600 (CPU), 3GB DDR5 (GPU)
Storage: 1TB/8GB Hybrid SSHD
Power Supply: Internal 450w 80Plus Gold
Dimensions: approx. 12 x 12.4 x 2.9 in high

Source

cherryghost

I'm sold on the controller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI

Dyr

cherryghost wrote: »

I'm sold on the controller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAjkbNq4xI

He's having to use mulitple passes from his thumb to get the cursor across the screen in civ and in the FPS, just like every other trackpad I've seen, not a replacement for a mouse for me

ShadowHearth

Looks really good. Now Imagine using that thing for few years. It would be as easy as mouse and keyboard ( sort off ). I really like it. I hope they will launch controller soon. I got a big ass telly and I want to play a lot of PC games on it!

shruikan2553

Civ looks a bit of a pain to play with it. Whas as I expected anyway. It might work for most games but there will be a few that just wont work well.

Magill

That is really impressive tbh... looks much more precise than the current console game pads. Won't ever replace a keyboard and mouse for top end competitive gaming on PC but awesome for some couch playing ! Really cool.

Bambi wrote: »

He's having to use mulitple passes from his thumb to get the cursor across the screen in civ and in the FPS, just like every other trackpad I've seen, not a replacement for a mouse for me

I have to move my mouse multiple times when playing shooters too tho... its the price you pay for that extra precision. Honestly tho, i don't think its intended to completely replace the mouse/keyboard, more of an upgrade for traditional console type gamepads. It'll never be as accurate imo, but to just chill out with some non competitive games... yes please.

Dyr

Magill wrote: »

I have to move my mouse multiple times when playing shooters too tho... its the price you pay for that extra precision. Honestly tho, i don't think its intended to completely replace the mouse/keyboard, more of an upgrade for traditional console type gamepads. It'll never be as accurate imo, but to just chill out with some non competitive games... yes please.

Not the same, the limitations of a trackpad are its size and the range of motion of your thumb/finger.

You don't have to lift and return your mouse to a starting point in order to make a single movement, you aim left by moving the mouse left, not moving the mouse left, lifting it and returning it to the center of the mouse pad and then moving the mouse left once more. I use a handheld keyboard with a trackpad for my TV PC and its a pain in the arse tbh, you could'nt use it for gaming, especially with the extra real estate of a TV. This controller looks better but its same inherent limitation I bet

tbh I was expecting something ground breaking from valve after all the talk about harnessing the mighty powerz of teh haptics and thus far theres been no real game changers.

Varik

It should be track absolute movement while within the pad but if you move to the edge it should be smart enough to know what you want to do.

Looks good but not perfect. Similar to typing without resistance I can see thumbs getting sore without a stick to provide resistance.

Overheal

there is tactile, haptic feedback though on the pads

Kiith

I think it looks great. Not as a complete replacement to the mouse and keyboard, but as a viable alternative for most games from the couch. Civ 5 actually looks pretty easy to control, and for a joypad, that's saying something.