Art O'Neill 2014

jusmeig

Well done to Declan and the team for organising AON 2014.
We really enjoyed what was our first AON, and all things considered the weather was good!

Like all events, popularity can fundamentally change what the event is and what it means to people.
I would consider making the Ultra/Hybrid a separate event, run on a different night. My reasoning behind this is competitiveness!
It becomes a race, and has all the support requirements of a race (chips, timing etc etc)

Being a walker I had no interest in my time, and at times I felt I was in the way as the ultras skipped past me.
To the man dragging the tire....we had a very interesting conversation for about 20 minutes in the dark when we were trying to figure out what the hell the noise ahead of us was

Yeah, wonder if events should be separated into walkers and those going for time. And I am a person who has crossed over from walking into mountain running and now looking at first trail ultramarathon in March. Not sure how one would do it, once there is any timing element at all it is inevitable that people will run, once people will run it makes it much more of a competition and much less of a social outing/event. Maybe the AON has the right idea, register with different descriptions and leave them all at it.

jusmeig

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, wonder if events should be separated into walkers and those going for time. And I am a person who has crossed over from walking into mountain running and now looking at first trail ultramarathon in March. Not sure how one would do it, once there is any timing element at all it is inevitable that people will run, once people will run it makes it much more of a competition and much less of a social outing/event. Maybe the AON has the right idea, register with different descriptions and leave them all at it.

I think you got to look at the foundations of the event.
If you take something like WAR, it was a Race from its inception but still broke up the waves etc. I would keep races and "challenges" apart

I am absolutely astounded that there were not loads of people injured!
The ground over Billy Bryne's Gap was terrible. Surprised there was not a handful of twisted ankles.

Slieve Rua

Under foot conditions were a lot better this year compared to last year. As a walker, I like to see the timings, gives you something to aim for the following year. Tankls to Declan & Co for a great event.

loobylou

Is there a race report anywhere?

duckysauce

Small 2 min piece on 6/1 news , will be repeated at 9.

mr spuckler

not repeated on 9 news, can be found here at about 43:15

Gravale

Here's the RTE1 report:

https://soundcloud.com/user590094777/art-oneill-2014

ThisRegard

loobylou wrote: »

Is there a race report anywhere?

A couple of the top ultra guys put a report in their Training logs in the Training Logs section in the ART forum here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1139

Check out Bay2Bray: Running 250km..... and A Little bit of everything, just faster.

summit2summit

Does anyone know if this event was submitted to UTMB for possible UTMB qualifying points?

Thanks,

S2S

BeBetter

Does anyone know what happened to Paul Tierney at AON? He was flying on the first leg but dropped out at CP1?

Enduro

BeBetter wrote: »

Does anyone know what happened to Paul Tierney at AON? He was flying on the first leg but dropped out at CP1?

Recurrence of an injury. He said he wasn't able to lift his legs properly. He was indeed flying. It's a pity. It was looking like it was going to be an interesting race at that stage, as I was 7 minutes behind him, but moving a little faster.

BeBetter

Enduro wrote: »

Recurrence of an injury. He said he wasn't able to lift his legs properly. He was indeed flying. It's a pity. It was looking like it was going to be an interesting race at that stage, as I was 7 minutes behind him, but moving a little faster.

It sure would have made it interesting, then again we don't want the course record to fall too far in one year Hopefully we'll have both of you back to battle it out again next year. I think I'll actually cry if AON falls by the wayside :mad:

summit2summit

BeBetter wrote: »

I think I'll actually cry if AON falls by the wayside :mad:

Rumour has it that if the Parks don't budge on the 200 cap that the event will be no longer tenable

Ar Strae

Alfa Quadrifoglio wrote: »

To the guy pulling the tyre behind him as training for an event in the Yukon... respect!

Ah you're having a laugh. For real?! Who is this guy? How did he get on?

Ronan

BeBetter

Ar Strae wrote: »

Ah you're having a laugh. For real?! Who is this guy? How did he get on?

Ronan

He finished still pulling it anyway. When I passed him on the run I just assumed he was going to leave it at CP1 but I saw footage of him pulling it through the water at the finish line!!

BeBetter

summit2summit wrote: »

Rumour has it that if the Parks don't budge on the 200 cap that the event will be no longer tenable

I can see why that would be the case. I'm a strong believer in trying to make events good value and AON isn't very cheap but it's so unique and you get so much for that price that I'd happily pay a much higher entry fee to keep it going. It's a tough balance for Declan & Co to manage. If they increase the entry fee to make it viable with 200 entrants they'll probably be accused of money grabbing. I saw some posts along those lines on the FB page already. For me it'd be the first event on my calendar every year.... and I have some unfinished business with it after this year! Left a large chunk of time after me

Rogue Runner

BeBetter wrote: »

... and I have some unfinished business with it after this year! Left a large chunk of time after me

There will always be unfinished business with the Art O'Neill

Gravale

Two walking clubs have already done the AON this year so far, and two more are already planned for February and March. Yes, the AON will continue to go on and on and on as usual.

Here's what things were like last Saturday:

2014-01-18 (3) (Large).JPG

DSC06736 (Large).JPG

Rogue Runner

Some difference from the other week

Gravale

From Black Hill (we didn't go through the Ballynultagh Forest at CP1) around to Billy Byrne's Gap there was heavy cloud and light drizzle. One solo runner from N. Ireland passed us at the Gap. We didn't see the entrance into the Ballinagee Forest until about 200m before reaching it. Visibility from Art's Cross towards the Avonbeg River was poor until we started to descend to the river. The snow was very pleasant though, as it brightened us up and made the journey a pleasant experience.

The Glenmalure Lodge was buzzing afterwards as the turkey, gammon and pints went down.

Gasherbraun

Just curious about peoples thoughts on this –

Since there is such an interest in the ‘modern’ version of the Art O’Neill Challenge would a similar event be as popular? I am thinking specifically of the Wicklow way section from Marlay Park to Glendalough which is approx 50km / 1900M and follows established walking trails which are not as environmentally sensitive as parts of the Wicklow Mountains national park that the AON currently passes through to remain true to the history that inspires it.

If the WW was used the event could still start at midnight in an urban environment and pass out of Dublin into the hills at Kilmashogue giving great views back over the sleeping city which is an element of the Art that people really enjoy. The event could also run in winter conditions.

Obviously the route will not offer the same challenges (not to mention have the same historical importance) in the latter stages as the AON but as way of compensation there would be far less road walking overall. The level of challenge could potentially be increased by diversions or simply tacking a loop of the Spinc on at the end giving a 60km / 2400M event. I assume that organisation would also be simpler since the WW is way marked, so easier navigation, and there are also various good locations where checkpoints could be located

Taking this a stage further such an event could be run as a sister event to the AON which could continue in its present form but would be more viable with the income raised from the WW event assuming numbers on WW event would be less restrictive; there could be one lottery for the AON with anyone who is not successful being offered a place on the WW. There is also the possibility that a certain amount of places in the AON could go to the strongest finishers in the WW each year so that a strong finisher in the WW gains automatic entry into the AON therefore allowing some limited entry based on merit rather than luck in a lottery.

So is it the unique history of the AON that makes it popular or would a similar night time, Winter based event gain popularity?

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Without the navigation, I don't see the point. An event over 50km with no fixed route at all would be far preferable to me.

Gasherbraun

Estelle Yummy Shrub wrote: »

Without the navigation, I don't see the point. An event over 50km with no fixed route at all would be far preferable to me.

I get your point although a lot of people do the AON relying on guides as opposed to self navigation. I guess the problem would be to find a route that is both off any beaten track that needs navigation skill and also avoids the national park and their issues with numbers.

loobylou

If the guided groups were taken out of the event, ie everybody had to self navigate there might not be the same issues of erosion for the NPWS.
Don't wish to be a Grinch, but participants dragging tyres behind them can't be much of a help either.

trailrunner

Have to agree with Loobylou here, it's a 'navigation race' . Why bother to enter if you can't Nav..?? Would you enter a Triathlon if you couldn't swim..???

Gasherbraun

loobylou wrote: »

If the guided groups were taken out of the event, ie everybody had to self navigate there might not be the same issues of erosion for the NPWS.
Don't wish to be a Grinch, but participants dragging tyres behind them can't be much of a help either.

True enough but the event has existed for decades as a less organised self guided walking challenge and will no doubt continue as such if the more recent set up ceases.

I think the guided groups offer the chance for people to experience the walk when they may not be able to navigate themselves and add to the unique character of the event. There is also a risk that if the AON was restricted only to those self navigating some people may attempt it when they are not really up to the navigational challenge. At the moment those people have a safe option of joining a guided group if in doubt.

I am not sure that the groups cause any more lasting damage than single walkers; the mountains host many guided walking groups every weekend and the AON groups are really no different.

Ultimately it looks like the issue is simply the economic viability of an event capped and oversubscribed at 200 whether they be walkers, runners, guided groups or even tyre dragging masochists....

Gasherbraun

trailrunner wrote: »

Have to agree with Loobylou here, it's a 'navigation race' . Why bother to enter if you can't Nav..?? Would you enter a Triathlon if you couldn't swim..???

Just curious (I am judging by your user name you may have an idea) but if the AON was just open to ultra runners capable of self nav would there be enough takers to fill 200 places?

blackvalley

Gasherbraun wrote: »

Just curious about peoples thoughts on this –

Since there is such an interest in the ‘modern’ version of the Art O’Neill Challenge would a similar event be as popular? I am thinking specifically of the Wicklow way section from Marlay Park to Glendalough which is approx 50km / 1900M and follows established walking trails which are not as environmentally sensitive as parts of the Wicklow Mountains national park that the AON currently passes through to remain true to the history that inspires it.

If the WW was used the event could still start at midnight in an urban environment and pass out of Dublin into the hills at Kilmashogue giving great views back over the sleeping city which is an element of the Art that people really enjoy. The event could also run in winter conditions.

Obviously the route will not offer the same challenges (not to mention have the same historical importance) in the latter stages as the AON but as way of compensation there would be far less road walking overall. The level of challenge could potentially be increased by diversions or simply tacking a loop of the Spinc on at the end giving a 60km / 2400M event. I assume that organisation would also be simpler since the WW is way marked, so easier navigation, and there are also various good locations where checkpoints could be located

Taking this a stage further such an event could be run as a sister event to the AON which could continue in its present form but would be more viable with the income raised from the WW event assuming numbers on WW event would be less restrictive; there could be one lottery for the AON with anyone who is not successful being offered a place on the WW. There is also the possibility that a certain amount of places in the AON could go to the strongest finishers in the WW each year so that a strong finisher in the WW gains automatic entry into the AON therefore allowing some limited entry based on merit rather than luck in a lottery.

So is it the unique history of the AON that makes it popular or would a similar night time, Winter based event gain popularity?

I think this is an excellent suggestion on several fronts.

For instance it has not got what many consider to be the least appealing part of the Art walk i.e. the road section

It REDUCES the problems of navigation for those who are not so proficient

It allows for many more drop out points for those who do not wish to complete the event.

Leaving Marley Park you are immediately looking back on the city at night.

I would however suggest that to keep it separate from the Art it be held asclose to June 21st as possible. Also I suggest that it goes all the way to Glenmalure (65K and 1850 MTS of climbing)

Already looking forward to my first Wicklow Way Challenge0n sat 21st June 2014

trailrunner

Gasherbraun wrote: »

Just curious (I am judging by your user name you may have an idea) but if the AON was just open to ultra runners capable of self nav would there be enough takers to fill 200 places?

I believe so yes. I know two people that put their name in the lottery, got picked for the ultra and didn't take the place coz they couldn't nav......!!
I personally couldn not nav till two year ago . I really wanted to do the Art for a long time so I got some nav training, did the recce's and ran the race!!! Why put on a 2nd event for these BOX TICKERS ??
I really believe that there would be no problem filling all 200 places with self navigating ultra runners. And I've been talking to many of whom didn't get a place this year because of the "Lottery' entry system.