Art O'Neill 2014

Enduro

Gasherbraun wrote: »

Just curious about peoples thoughts on this –

Since there is such an interest in the ‘modern’ version of the Art O’Neill Challenge would a similar event be as popular? I am thinking specifically of the Wicklow way section from Marlay Park to Glendalough which is approx 50km / 1900M and follows established walking trails which are not as environmentally sensitive as parts of the Wicklow Mountains national park that the AON currently passes through to remain true to the history that inspires it.

If the WW was used the event could still start at midnight in an urban environment and pass out of Dublin into the hills at Kilmashogue giving great views back over the sleeping city which is an element of the Art that people really enjoy. The event could also run in winter conditions.

Obviously the route will not offer the same challenges (not to mention have the same historical importance) in the latter stages as the AON but as way of compensation there would be far less road walking overall. The level of challenge could potentially be increased by diversions or simply tacking a loop of the Spinc on at the end giving a 60km / 2400M event. I assume that organisation would also be simpler since the WW is way marked, so easier navigation, and there are also various good locations where checkpoints could be located

Taking this a stage further such an event could be run as a sister event to the AON which could continue in its present form but would be more viable with the income raised from the WW event assuming numbers on WW event would be less restrictive; there could be one lottery for the AON with anyone who is not successful being offered a place on the WW. There is also the possibility that a certain amount of places in the AON could go to the strongest finishers in the WW each year so that a strong finisher in the WW gains automatic entry into the AON therefore allowing some limited entry based on merit rather than luck in a lottery.

So is it the unique history of the AON that makes it popular or would a similar night time, Winter based event gain popularity?

I'm not sure if you're aware but there is a race along the full length of the Wicklow way which leaves from Marlay Park at midnight. It was organised (by IMRA) for the first time last year, and is scheduled for 24th of May this year (see here).

There is also a strong possibility that there will be a similar event over the WW (from different organisers) taking place this Novemeber, with Relay options also available.

Not a navigation race, the terraine is much easier, but its a lot longer. Overall the level of difficulty is quite similar.

nerraw1111

There seems to be a growing interest in longer events, particularly those that don’t require nav. There’s plenty of options for tough terrain. IMRA have about four long distance races. https://www.imra.ie/leagues/view/id/29/year/2014/

Surprised no-one has done a night race along the Dublin Mountain Way. It’s a fantastic experience. Did it just before Christmas around sunset. Perfect timing, lovely light, city lights and running by headtorch.

Part of the appeal of AON for me, is leaving checkpoint one and knowing you’re stepping into the unknown for the next hour or two

BeBetter

nerraw1111 wrote: »

There seems to be a growing interest in longer events, particularly those that don’t require nav. There’s plenty of options for tough terrain. IMRA have about four long distance races. https://www.imra.ie/leagues/view/id/29/year/2014/

Surprised no-one has done a night race along the Dublin Mountain Way. It’s a fantastic experience. Did it just before Christmas around sunset. Perfect timing, lovely light, city lights and running by headtorch.

Part of the appeal of AON for me, is leaving checkpoint one and knowing you’re stepping into the unknown for the next hour or two

Agree 100% with Nerraw, the beauty of AON is stepping off the road and onto that open mountain. No road, no trails and for me my legs just come alive after dragging them along the road up until that. I know it's not the best way to do it but I've done AON twice now and both times the Viewranger App on my iPhone got me through it so no real navigation required for me. Having said that I wouldn't recommend other people doing the same cos if 200 people went out on the mountains with the Viewranger app I'd say half of them would still be out there cos of battery issues and no back up plan.

So for me there is nothing to replace AON, unless someone knows of any other off road & off trail mountain events?

Also in terms of a long trail run I think as Enduro said the Wicklow Way Race on the 24th May is yer only man. Organised by IMRA so no doubt it'll be a well run event.

BarryD

What about Mountain Marathon like events, the Karrimor International MM - seems to have a name change now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Mountain_Marathon

Not quite the same as above as competitors have to be a lot more self reliant. There's been a few similar events here over the years as far as I recall both in Wicklow and the Comeraghs off top of my head. They do combine running and navigating across rough terrain and there's typically a range of classes. And there is the added benefit that there's little or no fixed route, so erosion problems are greatly reduced.

Gasherbraun

Enduro wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're aware but there is a race along the full length of the Wicklow way which leaves from Marlay Park at midnight. It was organised (by IMRA) for the first time last year, and is scheduled for 24th of May this year (see here).

There is also a strong possibility that there will be a similar event over the WW (from different organisers) taking place this Novemeber, with Relay options also available.

Not a navigation race, the terraine is much easier, but its a lot longer. Overall the level of difficulty is quite similar.

Hi Enduro. Yes I was aware of the WW ultra and similar events. I guess what I was getting at in the OP was the viability of an alternative event aimed at the sort of walkers who want to take part in an event where the logistics are taken care of by third parties. This obviously does not appeal to everyone but this group seem to be growing in numbers and maybe if there were more alternatives to undertake long and challenging mountain based treks then the demand on events such as the AON would be eased somewhat.

That is not to say that any other events should be just for walkers anymore than the AON should just be for ultras but it would be interesting to see where the demand for the AON comes from though; I think in 2009 when Gearoid Towey ran the event there were 11 ultras (you were one I think) with the rest of the entrants being walkers some of whom were in guided groups.

If the demand is now much higher, and rising, from adventure athletes maybe there is an argument for splitting the AON into two events but this will just come back full circle to the erosion concerns of the PWS so probably unviable.

I think as mentioned before the real problem is the age old one of demand for something far outstripping the available supply. Maybe if the event stops being run in its current format people, runners and walkers alike, will just go back to taking on the challenge in a more self reliant and authentic style. And maybe that is not such a bad thing really…..it is what going into the hills is about

mr spuckler

i might be posting a bit early here but has anyone any idea if this will go ahead in 2015?

Gravale

No mention of the BIG edition with ultra-runners yet.

Walkers from various hillwalking clubs will continue to do it as usual though, as they have since the 1950's. It was done on at least five occasions in January this year.

Gasherbraun

I think the last I heard re 2015 was that it was highly unlikely to go ahead in the same format as 2014 in what Gravale calls the BIG edition. The fact that we are now in September with no word on it seems to back that up.

I guess it would be easier to manage the smaller numbers involved in running the event and I had heard that it may become just a runners event in its organised format but there is no firm info on that afaik but a look at the IMRA website may show something.

Gravale - just out of interest are the groups doing it really just for club members or would others be welcome to join a group doing it? I am just curious really and will not be doing it in 2015 due to being permantently exhausted by the demands of a new baby

nerraw1111

They didn't get permit till October 31st last year with an initial announcement on September 1st that they were in the process of planning the race.

I'd be up for running if it doesn't go ahead anyway.

Gravale

Gasherbraun,

Even within clubs there are relatively few who actually commit to do the AON. So, in actual fact we are quite accepting of people who are interested in joining us on the occasion if they are fit enough to do it. Those who are not serious enough to prepare for it will not be welcome.

mr spuckler

thanks for the replies guys. i'm currently leaning towards being away in early january anyway so likely wouldn't be able to do the organised one if it goes ahead. i trekked it last year and thought it was excellent, looking back on the line of bobbing head-torches when well out of sight of the city was a memory that will stay with me for a long time, as will the first light of the saturday morning.

i would love to do it again in some format, so Gravale et al, I may come back here looking for updates closer to the time. cheers

Enduro

There is a possibility that there will be an organised event for runners (No guides, no walking options). If that's going to happen it should be known soon enough.

In the meantime... long may the tradition of walking groups undertaking the commemorative trek each January continue! Keep up the good work Gravale!

Gravale

Yes, I would think it a better thing if there was a divorce between the two groups due to irreconcilable differences. They are two different beasts with little in common apart from the ground they walk/run upon.

BeBetter

Enduro wrote: »

There is a possibility that there will be an organised event for runners (No guides, no walking options). If that's going to happen it should be known soon enough.

In the meantime... long may the tradition of walking groups undertaking the commemorative trek each January continue! Keep up the good work Gravale!

Music to my ears Enduro!

DogSlySmile

From the AON facebook page:

For all those wondering whether they will be eating more mince pies or putting down hard mucky miles in the mountains the jury is still out. The colour of smoke will be revealed in early October.

DogSlySmile

We have white smoke! The Art O'Neill Challenge will make another break from Dublin Castle on January 16th 2015. The numbers are still restricted to 200 so this year there will be a postal entry only. Forms and other details will be available to download from the site from tomorrow evening but there's no rush as entries will be accepted until October 31st. Thunderbirds Are Go!

Love it

Endurancer123

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Love it

By the looks of it looks to be massive interest in the event for 2015

DogSlySmile

Endurancer123 wrote: »

By the looks of it looks to be massive interest in the event for 2015

Agreed, its getting hugely popular. Rightly so as its a fantastic event. Either that or it was a stroke of marketing genius by the AON team to say that the 2014 race would be the last ever AON event! :rolleyes:

It will be interesting to see how the postal entries work out. The organizers unfairly received a fair bit of grief when their site couldnt handle the amount of traffic on registration day. So hopefully this will be a more effective way of doing things.

Roll on January.

Gravale

Do it from the comfort of your armchair:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ga2QlFOOp4

Alfa Quadrifoglio

Great news that the Art O'Neill Challenge is a runner in 2015, pity numbers are limited to 200 but thats better than the event not running.

BeBetter

Hi guys.... now that AON is confirmed again for another year I'm just gonna pretend that the lottery is done and that I'm in and that's the frame of mind I'm staying in until told otherwise!! So mentally I'm already planning the event. LOVE THIS EVENT!!!

Just a bit of a controversial question, hopefully Enduro will wander past and might give his tuppence.... I know that in the spirit of the event everyone should visit Art's Cross and the two occasions I've done the event I've gone there but since it's not an actual checkpoint does everyone actually visit it? The reason I'm asking is because last year I was in a group of 4 and we were going fairly well (we thought) on our way down off table track and funneling into the valley towards the fire roads that lead to the finish - we came across 3 other competitors coming from a really strange direction. They definitely hadn't come from Art's Cross or at least if they did they must have taken a fairly severe detour to be coming from the direction that they were and they finished strong passing us out on the final few kms. I'd visit Art's Cross regardless cos the terrain near the 3 lakes is such a joy....!!!.....it's just something I've wondered about.

AON2014

Great to see the interest is up. I have started a new thread imaginatively titled 'Art O'Neill Challenge 2015' and I will check there for new queries as well as posting any up to date event information that's relevant. Thanks to DogSlySmile for the posts and comments, to Gravale as ever for the endless interest and I will leave Enduro give his tuppence on what goes on in the dark in the mountains but the route is the route if you ask me.

Hopefully the postal entry will keep things as fair as possible this year.

Good luck to all those interested.

Enduro

BeBetter wrote: »

Just a bit of a controversial question, hopefully Enduro will wander past and might give his tuppence.... I know that in the spirit of the event everyone should visit Art's Cross and the two occasions I've done the event I've gone there but since it's not an actual checkpoint does everyone actually visit it? The reason I'm asking is because last year I was in a group of 4 and we were going fairly well (we thought) on our way down off table track and funneling into the valley towards the fire roads that lead to the finish - we came across 3 other competitors coming from a really strange direction. They definitely hadn't come from Art's Cross or at least if they did they must have taken a fairly severe detour to be coming from the direction that they were and they finished strong passing us out on the final few kms. I'd visit Art's Cross regardless cos the terrain near the 3 lakes is such a joy....!!!.....it's just something I've wondered about.

Most people do, some people don't. The significant advantage to hitting Art's Cross, especially if visibility is poor or non-existant, is that you can be 100% certain of exactly where you are before tackling the most navigationally challenging section of the course. Going accross the section in the vicinity of the 3 lakes can be tricky for even the most able and experienced navigators in the AON (He said, speaking from experience!).

I'd have no doubt that plenty of people take unintentional detours in that area, which would explain what you saw. Generally speaking, anyone heading too far east of the the 3 lakes routing will (1) have more climb and descent and (2) have to traverse a significant amount of felled forest. Both of those will be much slower than any potential gain from cutting corners. I ended up about 100 meters too far east 2 years ago and I probably lost about 10 minutes hacking my way sideways out of the felled forest area.

Gravale

One way to do it.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2gxdvzd.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/29535tt.jpg

BeBetter

Enduro wrote: »

Most people do, some people don't. The significant advantage to hitting Art's Cross, especially if visibility is poor or non-existant, is that you can be 100% certain of exactly where you are before tackling the most navigationally challenging section of the course. Going accross the section in the vicinity of the 3 lakes can be tricky for even the most able and experienced navigators in the AON (He said, speaking from experience!).

I'd have no doubt that plenty of people take unintentional detours in that area, which would explain what you saw. Generally speaking, anyone heading too far east of the the 3 lakes routing will (1) have more climb and descent and (2) have to traverse a significant amount of felled forest. Both of those will be much slower than any potential gain from cutting corners. I ended up about 100 meters too far east 2 years ago and I probably lost about 10 minutes hacking my way sideways out of the felled forest area.

Yep. Could have been a detour. So the learning point here is really stick to the plan.... just go faster!!

Looking forward to the lottery, followed by the recce's, followed by the event itself

Teferi

Anyone do it this year? How'd ya get on?

Ar Strae

Yeah, did it. Went well, took an hour and 20 minutes off my PB. Conditions were good I thought. The ice and snow meant that it wasn't as sloppy and boggy as normal. Still a tough race though, it's pretty draining.

https://www.strava.com/activities/242388042

Ronan

Alfa Quadrifoglio

Great event, completed my third Art O'Neill as a trekker and thanks to our guide Eoin I dont think we walked a meter more than we had too. Plenty of ice and snowy underfoot conditions to contend with but nothing too extreme. Well done to the organisers and the DWMRT for ensuring the event has stayed alive and well done to everyone who took part.

Alun

I didn't do it myself, but we were up in the area hillwalking yesterday, walking from Billy Byrne's Gap contouring round past the base of the spur up to Mullaghcleevaun and on to Black Hill. I was confused by all the footprints in the snow literally criss-crossing our route up to Black Hill almost at right angles in places, but I didn't twig that it was the AON this weekend. Judging by the haphazard route they took I bet they covered double the distance they needed to have done

Gasherbraun

Alun wrote: »

I didn't do it myself, but we were up in the area hillwalking yesterday, walking from Billy Byrne's Gap contouring round past the base of the spur up to Mullaghcleevaun and on to Black Hill. I was confused by all the footprints in the snow literally criss-crossing our route up to Black Hill almost at right angles in places, but I didn't twig that it was the AON this weekend. Judging by the haphazard route they took I bet they covered double the distance they needed to have done

I have not done it for a couple of years but they used to take the guided groups on different routes through the more environmentally sensitive areas in order to reduce erosion. That could account for some of the mixed tracks.

Last time I did it we were routed high on the shoulder of Mullaghcleevaun which seemed cruelly unnecessary when the inclination is to drop lower to the river.

Still my wife thinks the whole thing is cruelly unnecessary after her experience of it ;-)

I read somewhere that DWMRT are taking the event over fully next year as part of their fundraising programme.