city held to ransom

Technoprisoner

the money is there...its just been spent on the wrong things? do our politicians really need ipads? or how about the bar tab in the dáil bar on nights of importance? how about the neck ties and scarfs that got handed out to the eu officials that visited at the start of this year?

Nino Brown

Technoprisoner wrote: »

the money is there...its just been spent on the wrong things? do our politicians really need ipads? or how about the bar tab in the dáil bar on nights of importance? how about the neck ties and scarfs that got handed out to the eu officials that visited at the start of this year?

The money is not there, any money we have is loaned to us under strict conditions. But lets say we stop spending money on the things you see as wasteful, and spend that money on things you think are more worthwhile. We still run a deficit, so we still need austerity.

Billy Mays

Here's who was causing all the ****e in town today.

ASSOCIATES of slain Real IRA leader Alan Ryan who were expelled from the organisation by Northern chiefs over their involvement in criminality have co-founded a new republican group known as The Irish Republican Voice.

Since his death last year, dozens of Ryan's gang were called to meetings in Dublin with RIRA leaders from the North which resulted in punishment style attacks and expulsion.

The group who were notorious for extorting money from drug dealers and legitimate businessmen were accused of stealing money bound for the North as well as drug dealing.

Scum

chopper6

Nino Brown wrote: »

The money is not there, any money we have is loaned to us under strict conditions. But lets say we stop spending money on the things you see as wasteful, and spend that money on things you think are more worthwhile. We still run a deficit, so we still need austerity.

Where can you justify sending nearly 700 million euro a year on 'overseas development'?
What about 300 million a year in direct provision for asylum seekers?
What about the 40k per year it costs to keep each inmate in the prison system? Why are they receiving flat screen tv's, xboxes and the best of food when working people are paying for it all?

chopper6

Nino Brown wrote: »

We still run a deficit, so we still need austerity.

We don't 'need austerity' we need to make foreign multinationals pay their way, and end to self assessment in the private sector and retrospective anti-crionying legislation to make the tax avoiders,NAMA developers and 'bankrupt' millionaires cough up what they owe..no excuses.

ewan whose army

I fail to see the point in this sit down protest thing, all it achieved was to piss everyone off. I know someone who missed a flight because they couldn't get onto the North side thanks to all the traffic chaos caused by them.

Right to protest is one thing, but people have the right to get on with their own lives, they shouldn't have to put up with people making it harder for them.

It reminds me of gay pride this year when similar tools tried to hijack it outside penny's and almost ruined it for a load of people.

Nino Brown

chopper6 wrote: »

Where can you justify sending nearly 700 million euro a year on 'overseas development'?
What about 300 million a year in direct provision for asylum seekers?
What about the 40k per year it costs to keep each inmate in the prison system? Why are they receiving flat screen tv's, xboxes and the best of food when working people are paying for it all?

You won't get any arguments from me there, if I had my way we'd stop letting asylum seekers in, our prisons would be private like US prisons, and I'd stop all overseas aid. I'd also slash the dole, restrict medical cards, slash rent allowance and cut loads of other spending. But just so we're clear, cutting spending is austerity! You're now advocating austerity?

ewan whose army

Nino Brown wrote: »

You won't get any arguments from me there, if I had my way we'd stop letting asylum seekers in, our prisons would be private like US prisons, and I'd stop all overseas aid. I'd also slash the dole, restrict medical cards, slash rent allowance and cut loads of other spending. But just so we're clear, cutting spending is austerity! You're now advocating austerity?

Privatised Jails are not really a good idea, the UK is trying them (The Irish system is far closer to the UK than the US one) and its not really working.

Prisons shouldn't be for profit they should be to rehabilitate people, do you really want to bang people up for vaguely victimless crimes like drug possession?

Nino Brown

chopper6 wrote: »

We don't 'need austerity' we need to make foreign multinationals pay their way, and end to self assessment in the private sector and retrospective anti-crionying legislation to make the tax avoiders,NAMA developers and 'bankrupt' millionaires cough up what they owe..no excuses.

A huge reason we have multinationals in this country is our tax regime. I work for a large multinational, the money they invest in this country is huge, the taxes from the salaries they pay is huge, the number of jobs they create is huge, all in the benefit to our economy is in the hundreds of millions from my company alone. Combined with other multinationals we're talking many billions, even if they never paid a cent of corporation tax, so it's not wise to take away the reason they are here. How do you end self assessment in the private sector?
These arguments are the typical non nonsensical rubbish that gets thrown around all over the country by people without the slightest idea how an economy works. If they're so worried about our economy would it kill them to read a book on economics?

Nino Brown

ewan whose army wrote: »

Privatised Jails are not really a good idea, the UK is trying them (The Irish system is far closer to the UK than the US one) and its not really working.

Prisons shouldn't be for profit they should be to rehabilitate people, do you really want to bang people up for vaguely victimless crimes like drug possession?

I think prison's should be for punishment, not rehabilitation, but that's a whole new topic.

L5

Rashers72 wrote: »

Why did the gardai not intervene? Did they really just stand by and let the city come to a standstill. Very poor if they did.
Can anyone who was there confirm what the gardai did, and how long did they wait before they intervened?

That's what this country has come to. Gardai are afraid to lay a finger on anyone anymore thanks to bleeding hearts claiming assault, and Garda ombudsman who seem to take the side of these wasters.
People need to decide what they actually want from their police force.

Could they not have just stayed outside the dail instead of ruining everyone else's day?

ewan whose army

LittleNipper wrote: »

Could they not have just stayed outside the dail instead of ruining everyone else's day?

Apparantly not, i would imagine alot of leftists would be annoyed by these lot as well. They just get a load of bad publicity.

It reminds me of the Student Protests in London I was a part of, it was 99% peaceful apart from a few anarchists (who weren't students) who broke into Millbank and places and caused chaos and damage. They even thew fire extinguishers off a 15 story building, nearly hit a police officer.

They get the headlines, not the peaceful ones

athtrasna

I haven't read all this thread due to some replies verging on AH territory and having had my already lengthy commute extended by those selfish ignorant feckers who don't give the rest of us a thought, my blood is already boiling.

But my 2 cents all the same.... I agree with all the anti-protest comments, I work in D2 and am totally sick and tired of regular protests (WHICH ACHIEVE NOTHING!!) blocking roads and delaying traffic.

I'm almost at the verge of starting a lobby to push for protests to be banned, all are supposed to be sanctioned by the Gardai. I don't understand why they closed off Molesworth Street and facilitated the sit in on O'Connell Bridge for ages.

I work hard (yes I know I'm lucky to have a job), long hours, am not highly paid, have a negative equity mortgage. I get hit by all the cuts the people are protesting against. But inconveniencing...feck it let's call a spade a spade here...pissing innocent people off does nothing to further a cause.

There are a couple of considerate protest groups, the reproductive rights people tend to protest at the plaza beside City Hall, off the road. Point made to the authorities but little or no inconvenience to the general public.

Then again, considerate and thoughtful are not words I'd associate with Eirigi. Thugs!

ewan whose army

ewan whose army wrote: »

Apparantly not, i would imagine alot of leftists would be annoyed by these lot as well. They just get a load of bad publicity.

It reminds me of the Student Protests in London I was a part of, it was 99% peaceful apart from a few anarchists (who weren't students) who broke into Millbank and places and caused chaos and damage. They even thew fire extinguishers off a 15 story building, nearly hit a police officer.

They get the headlines, not the peaceful ones

Im all for protests but nothing like this. Protest somewhere that matters. Absolute idiots.

athtrasna

LittleNipper wrote: »

Could they not have just stayed outside the dail instead of ruining everyone else's day?

The Dáil isn't the only building around Merrion Square/Kildare Street. Thousands of people work in that area, we have regular protests that delay us almost as badly as today...when we're just innocent people whose offices happen to be in that part of Dublin 2.

athtrasna

athtrasna wrote: »

The Dáil isn't the only building around Merrion Square/Kildare Street. Thousands of people work in that area, we have regular protests that delay us almost as badly as today...when we're just innocent people whose offices happen to be in that part of Dublin 2.

Where they not originally at the Dail and then as numbers grew and "thugs" arrived, they moved on to bring the city to a standstill?

I used to work on molesworth street, didnt mind the protesting much at all. A sit down on oconnell street though, achieves absolutely nothing imo.

athtrasna

LittleNipper wrote: »

Where they not originally at the Dail and then as numbers grew and "thugs" arrived, they moved on to bring the city to a standstill?

I used to work on molesworth street, didnt mind the protesting much at all. A sit down on oconnell street though, achieves absolutely nothing imo.

They were in both locations, Molesworth Street was closed from early morning until well after rush hour.

chopper6

Nino Brown wrote: »

A huge reason we have multinationals in this country is our tax regime. I work for a large multinational, the money they invest in this country is huge, the taxes from the salaries they pay is huge, the number of jobs they create is huge, all in the benefit to our economy is in the hundreds of millions from my company alone.

Exaggerated for effect of course...FMC's employ a tiny number of the workforce,ship their profits overseas,pay a pittance in tax and owe the host country absolutely nothing.

When it suits them they will bugger off to another country where they can get a better educated workforce for a fraction if the wages.

This idea that a handful of companies paying a handful of people is of crucial importance to the economy is fallacious.

One successful indigenous industry is worth ten of these companies.

Nino Brown

chopper6 wrote: »

Exaggerated for effect of course...FMC's employ a tiny number of the workforce,ship their profits overseas,pay a pittance in tax and owe the host country absolutely nothing.

When it suits them they will bugger off to another country where they can get a better educated workforce for a fraction if the wages.

This idea that a handful of companies paying a handful of people is of crucial importance to the economy is fallacious.

One successful indigenous industry is worth ten of these companies.

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Google 2500 employees
Intel 4500 direct employess, currently also employing thousands of construction workers in leixlip, and several thousand more permanent contractors
Microsoft 1,200 full time employees and 700 full-time contract staff
Amazon 750 employees

The list goes on, and on. Those are real jobs, with people paying lots of taxes. Intel alone have invested 7-8 billion in new plants in Ireland over the last 20 years.

languagenerd

I'm in two minds about this. It can sometimes be infuriating that we don't protest in this country - we complain about new laws or the government or taxes, yes, but we never really do anything about it - but at the same time, every protest I've ever seen has just caused problems for the ordinary people, not the government. And every single protest (no matter what it's for) seems to be full of people who don't really have any alternatives to offer and they're always hijacked by that Éirigí crowd, who are just troublemakers IMO.

As such, I wouldn't like to curtail anyone's right to protest (no protest rights = dictatorship), but at the same time, sitting on O'Connell Bridge won't achieve anything. It won't inconvenience politicians, it'll just cause more hardship for workers and businesses that are already cash-strapped. Protest should hit those in power: block the Dáil entrance, send TDs a relentless deluge of letters, refuse to vote for them... Protest should not only hit ordinary taxpayers who are just trying to scrape by.

(And just for the record, I think that while austerity is a necessary evil in some regards, the cuts are not being made in the right places. It's hard to accept cuts to education and hospitals when TDs are still getting €7million in travel expenses alone!)

PaddyORuadhan

Nino Brown wrote: »

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Google 2500 employees
Intel 4500 direct employess, currently also employing thousands of construction workers in leixlip, and several thousand more permanent contractors
Microsoft 1,200 full time employees and 700 full-time contract staff
Amazon 750 employees

The list goes on, and on. Those are real jobs, with people paying lots of taxes. Intel alone have invested 7-8 billion in new plants in Ireland over the last 20 years.

MNC employ only between 7-9% of the Irish workforce

PaddyORuadhan

languagenerd wrote: »

And every single protest (no matter what it's for) seems to be full of people who don't really have any alternatives to offer and they're always hijacked by that Éirigí crowd, who are just troublemakers IMO.

If you were to go to the main protest on Moleworth street at 6pm you would have seen loads of people not just protesting but actually contructively trying to put their heads together to come up with exactly what vision of the future that we have, and outlining alternatives.

athtrasna

PaddyORuadhan wrote: »

If you were to go to the main protest on Moleworth street at 6pm you would have seen loads of people not just protesting but actually contructively trying to put their heads together to come up with exactly what vision of the future that we have, and outlining alternatives.

If you were to go to any of the businesses on Molesworth Street today, they'd tell you how much this protest cost them :mad:

languagenerd

PaddyORuadhan wrote: »

If you were to go to the main protest on Moleworth street at 6pm you would have seen loads of people not just protesting but actually contructively trying to put their heads together to come up with exactly what vision of the future that we have, and outlining alternatives.

Well I'm glad to hear that! I was just talking from personal experiences here. I've been on a couple of the student and trade union marches, and every single time I've seen Éirigí hijacking them and causing trouble. And as for that crowd who were occupying Dame Street last year - the vast majority of those protesters were there for their own agenda and couldn't provide (a) one unifying reason for them being there or (b) any viable alternatives for the current situation.

My main point was that protests need to hit the right people. If you're just inconveniencing commuters and small businesses, it's not going to have any long-term effect on the government. We need to put a bit more thought into our methods - just sitting on O'Connell Bridge is not going to achieve anything.

PaddyORuadhan

athtrasna wrote: »

If you were to go to any of the businesses on Molesworth Street today, they'd tell you how much this protest cost them :mad:

So we should just all grin and bear all the rubbish that those muppets in the Dail throw at us. You realise that all the austerity that they are imposing on Irish society is costing both people and small businesses around the country a huge amount, as they suck money out of the economy.

athtrasna

PaddyORuadhan wrote: »

So we should just all grin and bear all the rubbish that those muppets in the Dail throw at us. You realise that all the austerity that they are imposing on Irish society is costing both people and small businesses around the country a huge amount, as they suck money out of the economy.

Further punishing the innocent people trying to make a living, or get to and from home/work/hospitals etc is a pretty lousy thing to do and turns people against the protesters rather than rallying them to the cause.

whatnext

PaddyORuadhan wrote: »

MNC employ only between 7-9% of the Irish workforce

And contribute infinitely more to society and the exchequer than the tw@ts that brought the city centre to a stand still this evening

Celly Smunt

PaddyORuadhan wrote: »

MNC employ only between 7-9% of the Irish workforce

"Only" :rolleyes:

AnonoBoy

AnonoBoy wrote: »

You were on the bridge?

What did they want?

I mean can someone boil it down to one concise sentence?

What do we want

Enda Kenny out

When do we want it

Now

:rolleyes: