Anthony Stokes

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

I think people would cut off their nose to spite their face when it comes to certain things.

I didnt see the match live but I watch in full on the rte player afterwards. I think the rte pundits some of their criticisms reeked of vested interests.

Stokes could have done better with 3 of the chances created but remember that neuer pulled off some fantastic saves from clarke during the match aswell. The encouraging thing is that he's getting into those positions and not chasing corner flags like long, walters and doyle do. if ireland managed to finish a chance at 1 r 2 nil, it could had been a different game. Conceding the first so early ruined the gameplan.

That said, id have used different tactics and players to noel king but its not a stick to beat him or the players with

Its abit much to bring in players from the cold and expect them to perform like they were never gone, especially against Germany away with the tactics employed.

I don't completely disagree with the positional sense thing, he definitely is something different to Walters or Doyle. Not better at what he does than they are at what they do though.

But I think your post ignores a little that he gifted them the first goal, and was responsible for Ireland not taking those chances, and if he hadnt done those things, it could have been the different game you speak of.

He wasn't the only one to blame for how the game panned out, but the most to blame by a distance. I wouldn't rule out him bouncing back from that performance, but I wouldn't blame any future manager seeing that performance and not calling him up next time either.

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

I don't completely disagree with the positional sense thing, he definitely is something different to Walters or Doyle. Not better at what he does than they are at what they do though.

But I think your post ignores a little that he gifted them the first goal, and was responsible for Ireland not taking those chances, and if he hadnt done those things, it could have been the different game you speak of.

He wasn't the only one to blame for how the game panned out, but the most to blame by a distance. I wouldn't rule out him bouncing back from that performance, but I wouldn't blame any future manager seeing that performance and not calling him up next time either.

I wouldnt be making a judgement of anyone after a game under a interim manager against Germany away from home. In Ireland we seem to favour workhorse forwards over poachers. Robbie Keane gets flak despite scoring 60+ goals for Ireland so Stokes getting flak is bound to happen. If he connected cleanly with his fresh air kick, it would have gone straight off a german player and away from goal. He should have looked up for McCarthy for the other and his touch was poor for the other when was looking control it and cut inside for the shot. Other players wasted chances but somehow Stokes merits more scrutiny. Its not like Shane Long would have finished those chances, he has more brainfarts in front of goal than I do!

As I said in another thread, Celtic dont play Stokes as the lone striker even in SPL matches because it doesnt get the best out of him. Do you think the new permanent manager should be analysing the Germany performance? I certainly dont!

Stephen Kelly was at fault for the 2nd, not much said about that, and who are you going to blame for the 3rd? He isnt the first nor will he be the last to make mistakes in an Ireland jersey. The gameplan after the 1st goal to half time was inept. I think what he does for the permanent manager is what will matter and that goes for every player, last night means very little in the grand scheme of things.

I dont think he was the worst by a distance at all, he was poor but besides Forde, nobody comes out with an enhanced reputation. People are just looking for a scapegoat in a meaningless match tbh.

The_Kew_Tour

grenache wrote: »

At least Stokes got in the position to be on the end of chances - if it was a certain Robbie Keane you'd find him standing out on the wing as far away from goal as possible.

This is too funny to be serious.

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

I wouldnt be making a judgement of anyone after a game under a interim manager against Germany away from home. In Ireland we seem to favour workhorse forwards over poachers. Robbie Keane gets flak despite scoring 60+ goals for Ireland so Stokes getting flak is bound to happen. If he connected cleanly with his fresh air kick, it would have gone straight off a german player and away from goal. He should have looked up for McCarthy for the other and his touch was poor for the other when was looking control it and cut inside for the shot. Other players wasted chances but somehow Stokes merits more scrutiny. Its not like Shane Long would have finished those chances, he has more brainfarts in front of goal than I do!

As I said in another thread, Celtic dont play Stokes as the lone striker even in SPL matches because it doesnt get the best out of him. Do you think the new permanent manager should be analysing the Germany performance? I certainly dont!

Stephen Kelly was at fault for the 2nd, not much said about that, and who are you going to blame for the 3rd? He isnt the first nor will he be the last to make mistakes in an Ireland jersey. The gameplan after the 1st goal to half time was inept. I think what he does for the permanent manager is what will matter and that goes for every player, last night means very little in the grand scheme of things.

I dont think he was the worst by a distance at all, he was poor but besides Forde, nobody comes out with an enhanced reputation. People are just looking for a scapegoat in a meaningless match tbh.

Do I think yesterday was a great yardstick to measure on? Probably not, but I think Stokes was one of the players you could better measure because he actually did get the service despite Ireland generally being overran.

Stephen Kelly was very much at fault for the 2nd goal, and I would think he hasn't covered himself in much glory either. You can forgive all the lads for a lack of shape and a lack of understanding under a new manager who hadn't much time with the lads and is hardly Mourinho, but some of the individual errors from Stokes and that one from Kelly had nothing to do with that.

Dempsey

CSF wrote: »

Do I think yesterday was a great yardstick to measure on? Probably not, but I think Stokes was one of the players you could better measure because he actually did get the service despite Ireland generally being overran.

Stephen Kelly was very much at fault for the 2nd goal, and I would think he hasn't covered himself in much glory either. You can forgive all the lads for a lack of shape and a lack of understanding under a new manager who hadn't much time with the lads and is hardly Mourinho, but some of the individual errors from Stokes and that one from Kelly had nothing to do with that.

Individual errors from players that were out in the cold and adjusting under far from ideal circumstances. Players that were regularly involved under Trap were making individual errors too. Stokes can play better than that but lone striker will not get the best out of him and especially not nights where teams enjoy 75% possession over us. I'd be critical of aspects of his game for Celtic and I'd consider last night a wake up call for him and what he needs to improve on and leave it at that.

CSF

Dempsey wrote: »

Individual errors from players that were out in the cold and adjusting under far from ideal circumstances. Players that were regularly involved under Trap were making individual errors too. Stokes can play better than that but lone striker will not get the best out of him and especially not nights where teams enjoy 75% possession over us. I'd be critical of aspects of his game for Celtic and I'd consider last night a wake up call for him and what he needs to improve on and leave it at that.

We will see what happens Tuesday anyway. Is Keane back?

devotional1993

CSF wrote: »

We will see what happens Tuesday anyway. Is Keane back?

Lets hope. At least he can put chances like last night in the net

Corholio

Being not one of Stokes biggest fans, I thought he did ok last night. We've had forwards play games in this campaign who haven't even got chances in games, so Stokes did well in that regard and offered a decent link up when the midfield actually decided to push even a little forward, which wasnt very often.

CSF

Corholio wrote: »

Being not one of Stokes biggest fans, I thought he did ok last night. We've had forwards play games in this campaign who haven't even got chances in games, so Stokes did well in that regard and offered a decent link up when the midfield actually decided to push even a little forward, which wasnt very often.

I just put that down to us not firing every single ball at the corner flag like under Trap

grenache

CSF wrote: »

If you're not taking the piss, you should be. Keane made the most of whatever chances he got and put them away. Phenomenal return for an Irish striker.

Why should i be? Keane has done sweet fcuk all since Paris '09. Unless standing far away from goal near the touchline counts.

As for "Keane made the most of whatever chances he got" The man needs 10 chances to score 1 goal.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

This is too funny to be serious.

You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately

grenache

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

This is too funny to be serious.

You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately.

CSF

grenache wrote: »

Why should i be? Keane has done sweet fcuk all since Paris '09. Unless standing far away from goal near the touchline counts.

As for "Keane made the most of whatever chances he got" The man needs 10 chances to score 1 goal.



You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately

7 goals in his last 9 internationals, done absolutely nothing yeah. Lucky bastard getting 70 chances in those games too.

Paully D

Stokes isn't, and will never be, fit to lace Keane's boots. People will only truly appreciate Robbie Keane when we're left with no marks like Stokes to choose from.

The_Kew_Tour

grenache wrote: »

You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately.

Well if scoring a hattrick and scoring a goal against sweden is dong nothing well then.

If long had looked up to find keane with simple tap in during second half then be better.

I will leave it there before you embarress yourself anymore.

devotional1993

grenache wrote: »

You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately.

No

You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately.

devotional1993

grenache wrote: »

You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately.

No

You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately.

fullstop

grenache wrote: »

Why should i be? Keane has done sweet fcuk all since Paris '09. Unless standing far away from goal near the touchline counts.

As for "Keane made the most of whatever chances he got" The man needs 10 chances to score 1 goal.



You've obviously not watched Robbie Keane lately

I'm not a big fan of Keane, but that's rubbish. While he might not contribute much to all-round play, you can't question his goalscoring record. I'd say you'd take him at Notts Forest in a heartbeat

grenache

fullstop wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of Keane, but that's rubbish. While he might not contribute much to all-round play, you can't question his goalscoring record. I'd say you'd take him at Notts Forest in a heartbeat

Scoring hat-tricks against Georgia in friendlies won't qualify us for a World Cup. Fact is he's gone missing against the big teams for the last four years.

Seeing as he's now only good enough for a league that is inferior to The Championship, I certainly wouldn't have him at Nottingham Forest.

The_Kew_Tour

oh the big teams argument.

Cause all countries our size has a player who delivers against the big teams.

grenache

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

oh the big teams argument.

Cause all countries our size has a player who delivers against the big teams.

That's how I judge Keane.

The_Kew_Tour

grenache wrote: »

That's how I judge Keane.

Sweden not a big team?

If so that leaves us with Germany as only other big team we have played in past year where he only played 1 game? he did not play Friday night.

grenache

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Sweden not a big team?

If so that leaves us with Germany as only other big team we have played in past year where he only played 1 game? he did not play Friday night.

Croatia, Spain, Italy, Austria, Russia, Slovakia, Bulgaria?! To name but a few......

The_Kew_Tour

grenache wrote: »

Croatia, Spain, Italy, Austria, Russia, Slovakia, Bulgaria?! To name but a few......

He did score against Russia.

He scored against France.

He scored against Estonia when it mattered.

Every player was crap in Euros.

What player do we have would have better scoring record in past 2 campaigns other than Keane? Stokes? Sammon? Long?

noodler

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He did score against Russia.

He scored against France.

He scored against Estonia when it mattered.

Every player was crap in Euros.

What player do we have would have better scoring record in past 2 campaigns other than Keane? Stokes? Sammon? Long?

Italy as well.

The_Kew_Tour

noodler wrote: »

Italy as well.

spot on. think he meant Euros but you're right as he had included Bulgaria.

Been inconsistent when he mentioned not doing anything since France game as Bulagria game was before that.

So you're right to include Italy now.

LuckyLloyd

grenache wrote: »

Scoring hat-tricks against Georgia in friendlies won't qualify us for a World Cup. Fact is he's gone missing against the big teams for the last four years.

Seeing as he's now only good enough for a league that is inferior to The Championship, I certainly wouldn't have him at Nottingham Forest.

He'd walk into the Forest team and single handedly fire you to promotion.

Another bitter Keano hater - you get added to the pile.

weldoninhio

devotional1993 wrote: »

Lets hope. At least he can put chances like last night in the net

Yeah, if he had the legs to get himself into those positions. :rolleyes:

kfallon

Technically Keane did score against Spain ('02) and Italy ('09)

Also scored against Germany ('02)

This big teams argument is a load of shíte tbh.

Look at the three previous record scorers for Ireland (Stapleton, Aldridge, Cascarino) - between them they had 1 goal in major finals. Keane comes along and destroys th recored and people still want to have a go at him.

I do think it's time to start phasing him out of the team but he's still a very valuable member of the squad, it'll be a sad day for Irish football when he hangs up his boots.

devotional1993

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah, if he had the legs to get himself into those positions. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should have a look at his legs v Sweden at home when he made and finished his goal.
The guy has a wonderful football brain and always has the knack of right place at right time.
If he had the service Stokes had the other night he would have had at least one. Remember he had fcuk all service in previous big matches because we were murdered.
I played at centre forward myself and without service you havent a hope.
Too many people need to get rid of their keane chip on the shoulder stuff and look at it the facts.
Its usually the bar stooler anyway who wouldnt know what a football match in the aviva is unless its Celtic v Liverpool.

devotional1993

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah, if he had the legs to get himself into those positions. :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should have a look at his legs v Sweden at home when he made and finished his goal.
The guy has a wonderful football brain and always has the knack of right place at right time.
If he had the service Stokes had the other night he would have had at least one. Remember he had fcuk all service in previous big matches because we were murdered.
I played at centre forward myself and without service you havent a hope.
Too many people need to get rid of their keane chip on the shoulder stuff and look at it the facts.
Its usually the bar stooler anyway who wouldnt know what a football match in the aviva is unless its Celtic v Liverpool.

grenache

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He'd walk into the Forest team and single handedly fire you to promotion.

Another bitter Keano hater - you get added to the pile.

I must pass this nugget on to Billy Davies, he'll surely make him his No.1 transfer target in January

I hate nobody. I judge players on how they've performed in recent years in games that matter, not what they have done a decade ago in Japan. If I "hate" Robbie Keane, then I can't think of a word strong enough to describe your feelings towards Andy Reid.

jonnny68

Stokes has lots of potential but unfortunately doesn't always show it.

keeponhurling

I'd like to see Stokes start tomorrow, give him another chance in a game where we might not be completely dominated.
Besides, we know at this stage what Keane and Long have to offer.

Stokes will be in our squad for the next campaign as he is at worst our 4th choice striker, behind Keane, Long & Walters. And if Walters counts as a winger, and with Keane getting older, he'll probably see a reasonable amount of game time.

So he should get a few chances over the next year ahead of the next campaign.

Backstreet Moyes

grenache wrote: »

I must pass this nugget on to Billy Davies, he'll surely make him his No.1 transfer target in January

I hate nobody. I judge players on how they've performed in recent years in games that matter, not what they have done a decade ago in Japan. If I "hate" Robbie Keane, then I can't think of a word strong enough to describe your feelings towards Andy Reid.

Their's not much point Keane wouldn't lower himself to Forrest.

So what do you judge as games that matter. For me i would judge games in qualifiers as what matters. So in recent years i would say he has done fantastic. Scoring in playoffs such as France, Estonia and Iran are far more important than a goal against Germany.

Scoring goals in must win games where we are favorites is the most important thing. Scoring a meaningless goal against a so called big side when we are less likely to get anything from the game would be less important to me. If you think scoring goals against big teams is more important than against sides we should beat or are at a similar level too is more important than i would really question your sanity.

I would also love to know how many goals he has scored since Japan maybe you stopped watching Irish games 11 years ago.

Jarrod

Nuts102 wrote: »

Their's not much point Keane wouldn't lower himself to Forrest.

So what do you judge as games that matter. For me i would judge games in qualifiers as what matters. So in recent years i would say he has done fantastic. Scoring in playoffs such as France, Estonia and Iran are far more important than a goal against Germany.

Scoring goals in must win games where we are favorites is the most important thing. Scoring a meaningless goal against a so called big side when we are less likely to get anything from the game would be less important to me. If you think scoring goals against big teams is more important than against sides we should beat or are at a similar level too is more important than i would really question your sanity.

I would also love to know how many goals he has scored since Japan maybe you stopped watching Irish games 11 years ago.

But Andy Keogh scored against Germany, obviously he does it against the big teams...

Aenaes

Jarrod wrote: »

But Andy Keogh scored against Germany, obviously he does it against the big teams...

And he wasn't even in the squad.

KING OUT.



Am I doing this right?

premierstone

grenache wrote: »

At least Stokes got in the position to be on the end of chances - if it was a certain Robbie Keane you'd find him standing out on the wing as far away from goal as possible.

Definitly my favourite boards post of all time

grenache wrote: »

Seeing as he's now only good enough for a league that is inferior to The Championship, I certainly wouldn't have him at Nottingham Forest.

Who says he's not good enough?? He choose to go to LA, pretty wise choice too if I don't say so myself.

grenache wrote: »

I must pass this nugget on to Billy Davies, he'll surely make him his No.1 transfer target in January .

Somehow I don't think Robbie will have a hard time choosing between LA and Nottingham

Lennonist

Paully D wrote: »

Stokes isn't, and will never be, fit to lace Keane's boots. People will only truly appreciate Robbie Keane when we're left with no marks like Stokes to choose from.

A trite comment like this grinds my gears, allied with the fact that it gets a rake of "thanks" from other posters. I don't think any Irish soccer fans - including Irish Celtic fans - would say that Anthony Stokes is in the same bracket as Robbie Keane was at his peak.

Keane is Ireland's record goalscorer, and his goalscoring record will probably never be beaten, but the fact remains that he is nearing the end of his career.

Ireland needs to be looking at strikers to take over when Keane goes and Stokes is among the options. He's not a "no mark" as you tritely say. He's a talented player, that may develop further and be a viable option for Ireland in the future.

It is not necessary to denigrate players like Stokes, in order to argue that Robbie Keane will be missed when he eventually retires.

MooShop

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would also love to know how many goals he has scored since Japan maybe you stopped watching Irish games 11 years ago.

Keane has scored 47 goals for Ireland since Japan, 16 of which were scored in friendly matches.

population

Lennonist wrote: »

A trite comment like this grinds my gears, allied with the fact that it gets a rake of "thanks" from other posters. I don't think any Irish soccer fans - including Irish Celtic fans - would say that Anthony Stokes is in the same bracket as Robbie Keane was at his peak.

Keane is Ireland's record goalscorer, and his goalscoring record will probably never be beaten, but the fact remains that he is nearing the end of his career.

Ireland needs to be looking at strikers to take over when Keane goes and Stokes is among the options. He's not a "no mark" as you tritely say. He's a talented player, that may develop further and be a viable option for Ireland in the future.

It is not necessary to denigrate players like Stokes, in order to argue that Robbie Keane will be missed when he eventually retires.

I agree with you in the sense that future planning has to be a priority. Robbie cannot play forever. Stokes is decent and deserves a chance, howerver my biggest issue with him is the fact that he simply cannot play up top on his own. He needs to be part of a pair, much like Keane does and this limits our options tactically. On that alone I would give Long the shirt even if he is having a dry spell right now.

rebelomar

population wrote: »

I agree with you in the sense that future planning has to be a priority. Robbie cannot play forever. Stokes is decent and deserves a chance, howerver my biggest issue with him is the fact that he simply cannot play up top on his own. He needs to be part of a pair, much like Keane does and this limits our options tactically. On that alone I would give Long the shirt even if he is having a dry spell right now.

Don't really watch Celtic so I'm not fit to judge the player properly.

Thought he did well against Germany. He was at times more isolated than he would be normally due to the personnel deployed on the wings Fri night.

To be fair it may be slightly different if there are two genuine wingers playing as well as an advanced central midfield player. I agree Long is the better target man if we are under the cosh but against weaker teams where we should see more possession in advanced areas I reckon Stokes better finishing/skill would be more beneficial. Maybe a horses for courses approach.

LuckyLloyd

Bottom line is after Keane we have no strikers who have or will ever score goals consistently at Premiership level. Stokes is okay, might score 15 in a full season in the Championship. Grim times ahead.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Bottom line is after Keane we have no strikers who have or will ever score goals consistently at Premiership level. Stokes is okay, might score 15 in a full season in the Championship. Grim times ahead.

"Grim times ahead", he says. We're doomed, doomed I tell ya:pac:

You do know that Irish soccer existed and at times flourished before Robbie Keane came along, he'll be missed when he's gone but I'm sure the Irish international team will continue in his absence. Whoever takes over will just have to use a bit of imagination and creativity, and build a team and a system where players from different parts of the team will weigh in with a few goals. I think properly organised, and with a decent draw for the next qualifying groups, we have the makings of a team that can qualify for the next Euros.

LuckyLloyd

Lennonist wrote: »

"Grim times ahead", he says. We're doomed, doomed I tell ya:pac:

You do know that Irish soccer existed and at times flourished before Robbie Keane came along, he'll be missed when he's gone but I'm sure the Irish international team will continue in his absence. Whoever takes over will just have to use a bit of imagination and creativity, and build a team and a system where players from different parts of the team will weigh in with a few goals. I think properly organised, and with a decent draw for the next qualifying groups, we have the makings of a team that can qualify for the next Euros.

Yeah, life is always a little easier when you have a Roy Keane shaped wrecking ball in the middle of the park. Or a Paul McGrath cleaning house at the back. Or Brady, Giles, etc.

This is easily the weakest Irish Squad in a very, very long time - certainly in my lifetime anyway.

Jarrod

Lennonist wrote: »

A trite comment like this grinds my gears, allied with the fact that it gets a rake of "thanks" from other posters. I don't think any Irish soccer fans - including Irish Celtic fans - would say that Anthony Stokes is in the same bracket as Robbie Keane was at his peak.

Keane is Ireland's record goalscorer, and his goalscoring record will probably never be beaten, but the fact remains that he is nearing the end of his career.

Ireland needs to be looking at strikers to take over when Keane goes and Stokes is among the options. He's not a "no mark" as you tritely say. He's a talented player, that may develop further and be a viable option for Ireland in the future.

It is not necessary to denigrate players like Stokes, in order to argue that Robbie Keane will be missed when he eventually retires.

The thing is that Stokes is 25 now and it's 6 or 7 years since he burst onto the scene at Falkirk. I think everyone would agree that when he went back from that loan spell and eventually moved to Sunderland, it looked like he'd go on to be a regular in the Ireland set up. Somewhere along the way though, things went wrong and if I'm not mistaken, the most goals he scored in a season between Sunderland and a couple of loan moves was 3. He has obviously improved since moving to Scotland but I'd love to know what went wrong for him.

As for not having him in the same bracket as Robbie Keane at his peak, he's still miles off Robbie Keane now. The way Keane has been speaking about the next manager, you'd have to assume he isn't planning on retiring yet so unless the next manager plays the two of them up front (picking Stokes ahead of Long, Doyle and Walters) then it could be a while before Stokes is a regular starter for Ireland.I don't rate Shane Long particularly highly but I'd have him ahead of Stokes but Keane, even at 33, is still streets ahead both for me and going into our next campaign I'd have him as our first choice regardless of formation.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, life is always a little easier when you have a Roy Keane shaped wrecking ball in the middle of the park. Or a Paul McGrath cleaning house at the back. Or Brady, Giles, etc.

This is easily the weakest Irish Squad in a very, very long time - certainly in my lifetime anyway.

You've been listening too much to Liam Brady, when he was trying to defend Trap towards the end of his reign on the telly in recent months. You're allowing feelings and emotions of negativity to overwhelm your overall view, as Frank Stapleton might put it.

Lennonist

Jarrod wrote: »

The thing is that Stokes is 25 now and it's 6 or 7 years since he burst onto the scene at Falkirk. I think everyone would agree that when he went back from that loan spell and eventually moved to Sunderland, it looked like he'd go on to be a regular in the Ireland set up. Somewhere along the way though, things went wrong and if I'm not mistaken, the most goals he scored in a season between Sunderland and a couple of loan moves was 3. He has obviously improved since moving to Scotland but I'd love to know what went wrong for him.

As for not having him in the same bracket as Robbie Keane at his peak, he's still miles off Robbie Keane now. The way Keane has been speaking about the next manager, you'd have to assume he isn't planning on retiring yet so unless the next manager plays the two of them up front (picking Stokes ahead of Long, Doyle and Walters) then it could be a while before Stokes is a regular starter for Ireland.I don't rate Shane Long particularly highly but I'd have him ahead of Stokes but Keane, even at 33, is still streets ahead both for me and going into our next campaign I'd have him as our first choice regardless of formation.

If Robbie Keane is available and in decent nick and good form, he'll probably still be picked by the next manager. The only reason why he didn't start the other night v Germany is because he was injured.

However it's important that other strikers get opportunities to play as well, because Keane wont last forever and will get injured from time to time like he was last Friday.

Jarrod

Lennonist wrote: »

If Robbie Keane is available and in decent nick and good form, he'll probably still be picked by the next manager. The only reason why he didn't start the other night v Germany is because he was injured.

However it's important that other strikers get opportunities to play as well, because Keane wont last forever and will get injured from time to time like he was last Friday.

We have other strikers in Doyle, Walters and Long. I know Walters and Doyle are both 30ish but Long is still only 26. The opportunities you're talking about giving other strikers, which I agree are necessary, are ones that Stokes should have had already. Assuming Stokes isn't a first team regular in the next campaign then he'll be 28 by the time WC 18 qualifying rolls around. IMHO, giving Stokes game time now in the hope that we can mould him into a regular starter doesn't really make sense.

LuckyLloyd

Lennonist wrote: »

You've been listening too much to Liam Brady, when he was trying to defend Trap towards the end of his reign on the telly in recent months. You're allowing feelings and emotions of negativity to overwhelm your overall view, as Frank Stapleton might put it.

No, I'm not. I'm very clear headed about where this squad sits to previous Irish squads and what players exist in the pipeline. Take the recent BBC Sport study on percentage of Premiership minutes per nationality:

2007 / 8: Irish players second at 6%
2012 / 13: Irish players fourth at 4.6%

More importantly though, think of our best / most important players for previous campaigns. Over the past decade or so we've gradually slipped from having a world class player (Roy Keane) plus a couple of excellent and coveted premiership stars (Keane and Duff) and main men for mid table premiership clubs (Kinsella, Holland) to a situation where we have few players starting regularly in the Premiership, and no-one playing a key role at that level.

I really hope Brady can take a leap forward; that Coleman can step up and establish himself as one of the best right sided players in the league and McCarthy can take a step up to being consistently above average at his position at that level. But Long is probably not ever going to score consistently in the Premiership; Hoolahan is struggling to get a game at present; O' Shea might not have a ton of suitors if Sunderland go down; Doyle looks done; Wilson is being moved around at Stoke; Clarke might be out of the team at Villa when everyone is fit; Forde is no spring chicken; we have a bunch of functional and decent pros at Premiership / Championship level who would never have been in with a shout in previous eras.

There is some underperformance recently, but not to any great extent. Bringing on back Gibson, Stokes, Reid and whatever other golden calfs of the Trapp era isn't going to make up for the September 2014 reality of how old Dunne and Keane are and how lacking their replacements are.

Lennonist

Jarrod wrote: »

We have other strikers in Doyle, Walters and Long. I know Walters and Doyle are both 30ish but Long is still only 26. The opportunities you're talking about giving other strikers, which I agree are necessary, are ones that Stokes should have had already. Assuming Stokes isn't a first team regular in the next campaign then he'll be 28 by the time WC 18 qualifying rolls around. IMHO, giving Stokes game time now in the hope that we can mould him into a regular starter doesn't really make sense.

Not sure your post makes sense to be honest, you appear to be kind of contradicting yourself.

I think it's between Long and Stokes for the slot if Keane is injured or if he retires. There are times that Ireland might play two strikers as well of course. Doyle and Walters are still options as well. That's why a manager picks a squad of players, so that he has options in case of injuries or loss of form etc., and it does make sense to give players in the squad game time when the opportunities arise.