Anthony Stokes

Jarrod

It makes sense to give players game time when the opportunity arises, if you're using it as preparation for them becoming regular starters. Otherwise you're just playing players for the sake of it. I don't ever see Stokes being a regular starter for Ireland, unless he improves vastly in the next year or two.

Lennonist

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, I'm not. I'm very clear headed about where this squad sits to previous Irish squads and what players exist in the pipeline. Take the recent BBC Sport study on percentage of Premiership minutes per nationality:

2007 / 8: Irish players second at 6%
2012 / 13: Irish players fourth at 4.6%

More importantly though, think of our best / most important players for previous campaigns. Over the past decade or so we've gradually slipped from having a world class player (Roy Keane) plus a couple of excellent and coveted premiership stars (Keane and Duff) and main men for mid table premiership clubs (Kinsella, Holland) to a situation where we have few players starting regularly in the Premiership, and no-one playing a key role at that level.

I really hope Brady can take a leap forward; that Coleman can step up and establish himself as one of the best right sided players in the league and McCarthy can take a step up to being consistently above average at his position at that level. But Long is probably not ever going to score consistently in the Premiership; Hoolahan is struggling to get a game at present; O' Shea might not have a ton of suitors if Sunderland go down; Doyle looks done; Wilson is being moved around at Stoke; Clarke might be out of the team at Villa when everyone is fit; Forde is no spring chicken; we have a bunch of functional and decent pros at Premiership / Championship level who would never have been in with a shout in previous eras.

There is some underperformance recently, but not to any great extent. Bringing on back Gibson, Stokes, Reid and whatever other golden calfs of the Trapp era isn't going to make up for the September 2014 reality of how old Dunne and Keane are and how lacking their replacements are.

Yeah.

Despite all that, there's a reasonable chance that Ireland can qualify for Euro 2016. With a decent draw, and with the extra qualifying places available, and most importantly with a manager in place that organises them efficiently and gets them to punch their weight.

If Ireland was to get a 2nd seed spot in the draw, I would then say that we would then have a good chance of qualifying.

Lennonist

Jarrod wrote: »

It makes sense to give players game time when the opportunity arises, if you're using it as preparation for them becoming regular starters. Otherwise you're just playing players for the sake of it. I don't ever see Stokes being a regular starter for Ireland, unless he improves vastly in the next year or two.

But he probably will be getting starts for Ireland if Keane gets injured or retires. He mightn't be starting all the time, but he could get a lot of game time and a few games as a starter.

keeponhurling

Jarrod wrote: »

We have other strikers in Doyle, Walters and Long. I know Walters and Doyle are both 30ish but Long is still only 26. The opportunities you're talking about giving other strikers, which I agree are necessary, are ones that Stokes should have had already. Assuming Stokes isn't a first team regular in the next campaign then he'll be 28 by the time WC 18 qualifying rolls around. IMHO, giving Stokes game time now in the hope that we can mould him into a regular starter doesn't really make sense.

Tonight we should probably stick with Robbie if fit, seeing as we need to win to be 2nd seeds for Euro 2016.

But as we are facing a year of friendlies, I hope Stokes and Long get plenty game time in those, as they will be key men in the next campaign.

Jarrod

keeponhurling wrote: »

Tonight we should probably stick with Robbie if fit, seeing as we need to win to be 2nd seeds for Euro 2016.

But as we are facing a year of friendlies, I hope Stokes and Long get plenty game time in those, as they will be key men in the next campaign.

I think Keane will still be the key man for the next campaign. People have been writing him off for a while now but he's still streets ahead of any other striker we have. I don't think Long or Stokes will ever be key men for us, hopefully one of them proves me wrong, I think it's more likely to be Long but I don't hold out huge hope for either.

keeponhurling

Yes, I agree. If Robbie is still our best striker next September then he should be picked.

But for the friendlies over the next 10 or 11 months I'd invest a bit in Stokes and Long. Don't think there's much benefit in Robbie playing friendlies.

Jarrod

I can see where you're coming from but we're also going to have a new manager, one who we can assume will play a different formation and style of football to Trap. We'll have maybe 4 or 5 friendlies before the Euro 16 qualifying begins and I think it's important that come next September the team knows what we're doing. I think the way we lined up on Friday was ridiculous, I agree we need to be somewhat experimental but that was too far.

I think that Stokes probably has a role to play as a squad player in the future and he should get some game time to reflect that but I don't think we should be moulding him to be Keane's long term successor.

The_Kew_Tour

2nd seeds if we win tonight

How true is that?

LuckyLloyd

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

2nd seeds if we win tonight

How true is that?

Need a few other results to fall our way. Playoffs might then change things also.

ThunbergsAreGo

Lennonist wrote: »

You've been listening too much to Liam Brady, when he was trying to defend Trap towards the end of his reign on the telly in recent months. You're allowing feelings and emotions of negativity to overwhelm your overall view, as Frank Stapleton might put it.

No he is right, this is, IMO, the weakest Ireland squad in memory (im 28)

Who is our "best player"? Coleman? Large drop off from Keane/McGrath/Keane (Roy) at their height. In the International game, 1 excellent player can make a massive difference against 80% of the teams you play

I think the post above summed up the lack of quality we have at the moment

Lamper.sffc

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, I'm not. I'm very clear headed about where this squad sits to previous Irish squads and what players exist in the pipeline. Take the recent BBC Sport study on percentage of Premiership minutes per nationality:

2007 / 8: Irish players second at 6%
2012 / 13: Irish players fourth at 4.6%

More importantly though, think of our best / most important players for previous campaigns. Over the past decade or so we've gradually slipped from having a world class player (Roy Keane) plus a couple of excellent and coveted premiership stars (Keane and Duff) and main men for mid table premiership clubs (Kinsella, Holland) to a situation where we have few players starting regularly in the Premiership, and no-one playing a key role at that level.

I really hope Brady can take a leap forward; that Coleman can step up and establish himself as one of the best right sided players in the league and McCarthy can take a step up to being consistently above average at his position at that level. But Long is probably not ever going to score consistently in the Premiership; Hoolahan is struggling to get a game at present; O' Shea might not have a ton of suitors if Sunderland go down; Doyle looks done; Wilson is being moved around at Stoke; Clarke might be out of the team at Villa when everyone is fit; Forde is no spring chicken; we have a bunch of functional and decent pros at Premiership / Championship level who would never have been in with a shout in previous eras.

There is some underperformance recently, but not to any great extent. Bringing on back Gibson, Stokes, Reid and whatever other golden calfs of the Trapp era isn't going to make up for the September 2014 reality of how old Dunne and Keane are and how lacking their replacements are.

Comparing stats of whom played for who and what percentage of Irish played in the prem in whatever year is not a decent enough way to compare the players from one era to the next. Compare the squads to each other directly. As in the quality of a player, not just who they played for.

I personally think a lot of people are forgetting how many very average players where in previous squads in the past. Yes we had some good players like the Keane s and the like but (especially post Charlton era) our squads where very average to say the least. We still managed to compete and we will again (Depending on the manager of course)

CSF

Much more promising so far tonight.

kksaints

Hes very good at making runs and finding himself in the right place but his decision making is fairly poor. Definite deserves to be in the squad, starter not sure.

Antifa161

It's good to see him finally get a look back in, although I had to despair at it being in a lone striker role (which he can't play) against one of the best footballing nation on the planet.

The people writing off his fine club form by criticising the standard of opposition he faces in the SPL should take a second and check the state of the teams Ireland usually play.

Panthro

Stokes, he ain't nothing but a hound dog..
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-football-anthony-stokes-charged-assaulting-elvis-impersonator-172725654--sow.html

Paully D

Panthro wrote: »

Stokes, he ain't nothing but a hound dog..
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-football-anthony-stokes-charged-assaulting-elvis-impersonator-172725654--sow.html

The victim was 'all shook up' after the incident.

keeponhurling

Nothing proven yet so hence a nothing story.

You people have suspicious minds.

Dempsey

I remember being told on this forum that it was a nothing story as he wasnt charged with anything at the time. Jumping to conclusions etc. :rolleyes:

He's been charged with assault, as expected, far from a nothing story.

dreamers75

Panthro wrote: »

Stokes, he ain't nothing but a hound dog..
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/scottish-football-anthony-stokes-charged-assaulting-elvis-impersonator-172725654--sow.html

Elvis assaulted him for impersonating a footballer.