Breaking Bad Episode 15: Granite State

P.Walnuts

lukin wrote: »

The last few eps have really p***ed me off. It's no longer entertaining, it's just tragic at this stage. Andrea getting killed was the final straw. Jesse (one of the few characters with some kind of moral core) having to suffer so much is also hard to watch. The way Todd and his scumbag friends are being glorified is sickening. I'll watch the last ep but I'll look a lot more fondly on the seasons 1-4.

You should stick to CSI or some other generic dross where each episode ends with a slap on the back, and the bad guy being led away in cuffs.

lukin

P.Walnuts wrote: »

You should stick to CSI or some other generic dross where each episode ends with a slap on the back, and the bad guy being led away in cuffs.

If you had read my initial post you would have seen I said I wanted balance.
I agree that it isn't realistic to have the bad guys getting caught at the end of every TV series/film but the continuing cruelty that the neo nazis are committing is just too much:

• That kid at the train heist
• Hank
• Jesse
• Andrea

Someone said that Jesse is a murderer too

but when he killed Gayle he at least felt bad

. The neo-nazis don't.

P.Walnuts

lukin wrote: »

If you had read my initial post you would have seen I said I wanted balance.
I agree that it isn't realistic to have the bad guys getting caught at the end of every TV series/film but the continuing cruelty that the neo nazis are committing is just too much:

• That kid at the train heist
• Hank
• Jesse
• Andrea

Someone said that Jesse is a murderer too

but when he killed Gayle he at least felt bad

. The neo-nazis don't.

They are bad guys, they do bad things...it's what they do!

Interesting you don't say the same about Walt, who has done just as much, if not probably far worse than the Nazis!

Penn

lukin wrote: »

If you had read my initial post you would have seen I said I wanted balance.
I agree that it isn't realistic to have the bad guys getting caught at the end of every TV series/film but the continuing cruelty that the neo nazis are committing is just too much:

• That kid at the train heist
• Hank
• Jesse
• Andrea

Someone said that Jesse is a murderer too

but when he killed Gayle he at least felt bad

. The neo-nazis don't.

Because they're White Supremicists. They're the bad guys. Gus didn't feel bad when he killed Don Eladio and the other cartel members. Walt didn't feel bad when he organised the deaths of the 10 guys in prison. Mike didn't feel bad with the number of people he's killed.

Seriously, bar Todd the Nazis have only been in about 7 episodes so far. And they only have one more to go. They're essentially the baddies of this season, it makes the most sense that they are defeated in the final episode of the season. In order to be the bad guys, they have to do really bad things.

Japandamo

P.Walnuts wrote: »

They are bad guys, they do bad things...it's what they do!

Interesting you don't say the same about Walt, who has done just as much, if not probably far worse than the Nazis!

Oh, I don't know if I'd say he'd done worse than the Nazis...don't forget that he got the Nazis to pull off the worst of it with the prison murders.

lukin wrote: »

If you had read my initial post you would have seen I said I wanted balance.

The show has been getting darker - ever since we realised that Walt would poison a child in order to manipulate Jesse, and we've seen what he's capable of. You should probably hold out and wait to view the entire series as a whole before saying it needs balance.

If you cut out the last ten to fifteen minutes off, say, any superhero film you might say it lacks balance as well...

stevestevenson

Spoiler Alert:

The last episode "Felina" refers to the name of Walt's long lost Irish Aunt. Walt re-locates to Dublin to cook meth for Nidge, Franno & the lads, and not trusting the Irish Banking system opts to keep his $11m in the oil barrels.
When later questioned by CAB, he says he won it on horses, and got a dig-out from friends - which apparently is enough of an excuse for the Irish authorities.

Fact!*





*may not be fact

Sea Sharp

Walt breaks into Grey Matter, steals a load of supplies then takes down the Neo-Nazis camp with a chemical attack.

Jesse to kill Lydia.

Walt kills himself rather than being taken by the police.

The only way for him to patch things up with his family is if they get captured and he rescues them.

Japandamo

Sea Sharp wrote: »

Walt breaks into Grey Matter, steals a load of supplies then takes down the Neo-Nazis camp with a chemical attack.

Jesse to kill Lydia.

Walt kills himself rather than being taken by the police.

The only way for him to patch things up with his family is if they get captured and he rescues them.

Do you think Walt has forgiven Jesse now? Or that he'll be sorry when he sees the state he's in? And will Jesse have forgiven Walt - reckon there'll be showdown there.

...unless he rescues Brock as well...

Dman001

The more I think about it, the more unsure I am that the gun Walt obtains at the diner is solely for going after the Nazis. Walt knows how powerful they are, as they took down two DEA agents (who have shooting experience) with relative ease, without getting injured themselves. For Walt, who has no experience with a gun that size, to walk into a scenario against all those ruthless people. He won't have much luck, maybe taking down one or two before being killed himself.

I'm starting to think the gun is a precautionary measure, be it for the Nazis or the cops. If things go tits up, he'll have a bit of backup. I think his plan for taking down the Nazis will be much more clever and detailed, taking them outside of their own territory where they are more vulnerable. Possibly using the ricin on Todd as a starting point. Going in all guns a blazing won't be an effective solution.

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Brock will be a key piece is the final chess game, methinks. He might even be the one to take down the great Heisenberg. You heard it here first.

unplayable

if people havent seen this tribute to hank well worth a watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkFs90jJfOg

what an amazing show. i am genuinely so sad its nearly over. just below sopranos for me as best show ever.

P.Walnuts

Japandamo wrote: »

Oh, I don't know if I'd say he'd done worse than the Nazis...don't forget that he got the Nazis to pull off the worst of it with the prison murders.

The guy who gives the order is just as guilty as the guy's who do the deed!

But yeah, it's debatable if he is worse, but certainly on par

Padraig Mor

Dman001 wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more unsure I am that the gun Walt obtains at the diner is solely for going after the Nazis. Walt knows how powerful they are, as they took down two DEA agents (who have shooting experience) with relative ease, without getting injured themselves. For Walt, who has no experience with a gun that size, to walk into a scenario against all those ruthless people. He won't have much luck, maybe taking down one or two before being killed himself.

I'm starting to think the gun is a precautionary measure, be it for the Nazis or the cops. If things go tits up, he'll have a bit of backup. I think his plan for taking down the Nazis will be much more clever and detailed, taking them outside of their own territory where they are more vulnerable. Possibly using the ricin on Todd as a starting point. Going in all guns a blazing won't be an effective solution.

This. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: no way Walt is going into the Nazi compound, M60 blazing. The gun is a red herring. The recoil would probably knock him over at this stage!

jcsoulinger

I can't see Jesse being killed in the final episode, I don't think they would but him through all that **** just to kill him in the end, it just wouldn't make sense to me there needs to be some redemption, and Jesse is the prime candidate considering his position.

I hope the ricin is for the co founders of grey matter, no one would have seen that coming before this weeks episode, It would make Walt probably the biggest badass psycho in TV history if he killed those two, it would also ram home just how bad he has broke over the course of the series.

Quixoticelixer

Padraig Mor wrote: »

This. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: no way Walt is going into the Nazi compound, M60 blazing. The gun is a red herring. The recoil would probably knock him over at this stage!

Yep, would be rather out of character. I'd imagine he'll try to get to them by smarter means, draw them out like he drew Gus out to the nursing home. Or somehow get something in to their compound as a means of poisoning them with the ricin, like Gus did to the Salamanca (I think?) family in Mexico with the poisoned drink. Todd is his safe gateway into the compound, all he has to do is manipulate him with some bull**** proposition. Walt may have no problem eating/drinking something with them to prove it's not poisoned, unlike Gus he doesn't have to throw up as soon as possible, he's going to die anyway!

Problem with this is that I haven't factored the M60 into things, I have no idea what that's for.

Mousewar

unplayable wrote: »

if people havent seen this tribute to hank well worth a watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkFs90jJfOg

what an amazing show. i am genuinely so sad its nearly over. just below sopranos for me as best show ever.

That's very good but seriously, is that the only piece of music these people know?

Busi_Girl08

I'm with whoever said the ricin is for the next/last batch of Blue. Complete the legacy.

As far as Walt is concerned, if he can't enjoy the success of the Blue Empire, no-one can.

This is going to lead to Lydia getting into the sh!t with her bosses, and possibly lead to her suicide/murder. Some figures may go after the Nazis in some big epic show-down while Walt watches this big demented puppet show he orchestrated.

Czech-mate.



Then the only 2 left standing are him and Jesse for one last confrontation.

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Maybe he offers the gun to the Nazis - a trojan horse of sorts. Rigged to do something if fired. Of course, the Nazis could buy a truckload of those guns with all the money they have.

Mr Freeze

The best I can predict is the following, probably all wrong.

I don’t know what the M60 is for, maybe Walt kills some Nazi’s with it. Whatever happens, the Nazi’s and Todd will meet a sticky end, either at some cunning plan by Walt or by the European gangsters (possibly in an epilogue)

The Ricin is for the Blue Meth, and bringing down the Meth Empire Walt built.

Lydia will be murdered by the European gangsters due to the ricin in the meth, or kill herself (possibly in an epilogue).

Skylar to die somehow. Someone Walt cares about has to die I think.

Jessie to kill Walt and live.

Busi_Girl08

One thing I will say: There is no rule anywhere that says that anyone has to have some semblance of a happy ending.

Sirsok

Am I only only one that wants to see Walt to live? Yeah he is a dick, but so was Tony Montana! I know Montana died, but I always felt sad at the ending of that even though he was the epitome of a gangster.

Jesse I don't have any connection to anymore, and his redmption over Walt would suck for me

unplayable

Mousewar wrote: »

That's very good but seriously, is that the only piece of music these people know?

here is another one from same person.

different music this time.

so well made!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1NuXkgTNAA&list=TLnrmMlwKO8Mq18M0d0mBFvrqDbfmB9gqX

Dman001

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I'm going to spoiler tag this just in case, even though it doesn't contain any spoilers as such. There is no actual detail from the finale, but it's the director of 'Granite State' discussing the evolution of the Walter/Heisenberg character and what it may develop into in the finale in general terms, specifically in relation to the final scene in Granite State.

From http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-granite-state-writer/:

I can tell you the way I saw it: The way I see it is that Heisenberg is gone. He keeps trying to kind of evoke the ghost of Heisenberg, the thrill of feeling powerful, and it’s not there. It’s gone. It died when Hank died. It’s just not there. It died when he saw baby Holly. And then in the end, what is happening in my mind, and obviously we’re leaving it up to the audience to some extent, in my mind, what’s happening is he’s becoming something new. And it’s not Walter White; It’s not Heisenberg; it’s something new. And that’s what I think Dave Porter picked up on when he had that great variation on the Breaking Bad theme at the end. Dave and I both agree he’s sort of, in this episode, he’s becoming what he’s going to become, and we’ll find out what that is in the next episode.

I gave the end scene another re-watch. To me it looks like Gretchen's last few words that hit home for him, that sparks something and cause such "transformation", when she says that the Walter White that they knew and cared about was no longer alive. While what Gretchen and Elliott said about Walt having little to no input into Gray Matter did have an effect on him, it doesn't look like it was that specifically that sets him off. What does this mean? An attempt now to reclaim Walter's good natured character possibly? Obviously up for much debate, but this comment by Gould did make me look at the scene differently.

banquo

I think we're in the third and final act of Walter White from Walter, to Heisenberg, to a master of both egos.

Killer_banana

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

One thing I will say: There is no rule anywhere that says that anyone has to have some semblance of a happy ending.

True and in Breaking ad I feel the vast majority of characters won't. However, as already said, there's no way Jesse would be put through so much just to get killed off. In my opinion if they were going to kill Jesse he would have died after he was dragged from under the car. I don't think his ending will be that happy, after all the guy has spent months being tortured and kept in a cage forced to cook and he'll blame himself for Andrea's death but he'll get semblence of a life back. Some people are saying he'll get a custody of Brock but that seems unlikely to me, especially since the police are most likely after him. I'm guessing he'll get a new life from the vaccum repair guy, go to Alaska like he was meant earlier in the season.

I also can see Flynn and Skyler getting an okay ending.

Vaxxine

To tie up all loose ends, it's going to be one very fast paced show. Right from the begining **** is gonna go down, I think we're going to be in for one hell of a final episode. Blink and you'll miss it sort of deal.

ElizaT33

If ANYTHING more happens to Jesse I WILL BE VERY ANGRY.... !

(Think I may be confusing him with Aaron Paul who is the NICEST man on this Planet at the min I think ......) Love him!:D:D

Just had a thought. Imagine if Vince G killed off Walter White in the first 15 minutes!

Madame K

Deleted User wrote: »

Just had a thought. Imagine if Vince G killed off Walter White in the first 15 minutes!

I had the terrible feeling that Walt shows up to his destination with the big gun, has one of those coughing fits then drops dead.

FouxDaFaFa

Deleted User wrote: »

Just had a thought. Imagine if Vince G killed off Walter White in the first 15 minutes!

Could be interesting.

Someone would have to take over the narrative for him and become our new hero, probably Jesse.

laugh

If it looks like Walt attacks his family and is taken out by Skylar or Junior she will be off the hook right?

PurpleSt4in

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Skylar to die somehow. Someone Walt cares about has to die I think.

Walt HAS to live to see at least one of his cared ones die. With what has happened to Jesse, Walt deserves his comeuppance. Would be very surprised if one of Skylar/ Walt JR/ Holly do not die. And would VG really go there with killing a baby or a kid with cerebral palsy... after that Andrea scene I really do not know.

Bring on the bloodbath!

Patty O Furniture

This is gonna be one hell of a finale & hopefully brilliant ending compared to the last great show that left us in the dark, literally!

Todd; 'sorry for your loss' you gotta love that guy, if there wasnt already a show called Todd & the book of Evil, he'd fit right in!

Walter's more brains than brawn, he's probably got a few things set up already, he's just got to set in in motion, as mentioned he's a different person since losing Hank & realising his family dont want him, his money stolen & find Jesse to reclaim some balance.
Walt has nothing to lose now especially his failing health is rapidly declining, i'd say Walt will leave it all to Jesse as he's only got Brock left & he'll be the only one left standing as i'd say Walt will tell Jesse to pull the trigger on what will unfold before our very eyes.

cloudatlas

Vince Gilligan said he believes in karmic retribution, he's surprised that people are still rooting for Walt, said he didn't like stories where Idi Amin characters get off the hook I think he wouldn't shy away from having another of Walt's family die, Walt isn't going to walk away from it imo. Walt hates Jesse blames him for hank and the revealing of his identity.

Fiery biscuits

The big elephant in the room (pardon the pun) is what is going to happen to poor huell.....

John Dodger

threein99 wrote: »

It was mentioned in the TV interview with Gretchen and Elliot

You missed his point which was: did Walt know it wasn't blue all along? I don't think Lydia mentioned the colour at the car wash & as Walt had trained Todd surely he would not be surprised if it was blue.

John Dodger

Dman001 wrote: »

Not really convinced to go as far as to say Walter White is gone, because I think we'll see that side of him in the finale in some way or form. Even in the flash forward, he was quite Walter White-esque, playing with his food as his family had done on previous birthdays.

We seen a sick, thinning, feeble Walt in the cabin (which I assume was a close to a year gone by, if at the diner it is his birthday and he moreless goes straight there from the bar). He had no fight or care at that stage to get revenge on the Nazis, or get back his money. All ego had to be set aside due to his sickness and circumstance. The scene at the bar, watching the interview reignited that ego, that need not to just lie down and accept the consequence.

Also, separately, I was really hoping to see Saul stand up for himself against Walt. We could see how intimidated he was by Walt still, regardless of the fact they were both now men on the run with little power remaining. That was until Walt started coughing, his sickness becoming apparent.

It wasn't a year, it was 3-4 months (confirmed on Talking Bad).

John Dodger

Killer_banana wrote: »

They went through a timeline of events on Talking Bad, think they said it had been three or four months at that point? I could be wrong, they definitely said that it was two or three days before his birthday when he leaves the bar.

Knowing the timeline and having watched the episode they could have done a bit better with making it clear. In the time jump last season it was pretty clearly a significant amount of time had gone past; this time it was difficult to gauge how much time went by at all, a few months, a year, it all seems possible. Throw in the fact Jesse's timeline is much shorter (the night he tries to escape is only a week after being captured) and it makes for muddled viewing really. I'm not sure how they could have made the timeline clearer and they obviously knew it was a bit confusing (after all they wouldn't have red out the timeline on Talking Bad if they thought it was clear) but I feel like they didn't try and make it that clear really. I don't work in TV though, these things are probably harder than they look.

It's not VG's style to be obvious but the timeline was pretty clear. In the last epidode Skylar mentions that Holly is 18 months. We know the finale starts on Walts 52nd birthday so we can extrapolate that he spent 3-4 months in NH.

John Dodger

Killer_banana wrote: »

I could be wrong but wasn't Walt actually in a relationship with Gretchen at one point? I thought I remembered a flashback scene (him explaining some formula) where it was clear they were a couple. Bit different to your best friend marrying someone you have a crush on and marrying your ex. I also had the impression (again I could be misremembering) he was forced out rather than choosing to leave. I'm less sure about that though.

It's never been made clear but we do know that Walt was still in Gray Matter when first married to Skyler.

John Dodger

RobbingBandit wrote: »

On the train this morning going to college I let out a yelp while watch Andrea,poor Brock. That opie Bastard Todd is evil. I am 100% rooting for Heisenberg after that ending. There is only so many ways this can go now with one episode left, I really hope we get a look at those newspapers in the DVD box set special features when all this is over, so much left unsaid.

It has been over a year since Jack and the Nazis stole the money,how much of it will they have left,will they even still be there or will it just be Todd and Jessie,Walter Jr(Flynn) didn't change his name to Skylers maiden name,that is intriguing. He is also unsurprised to hear Aunt Marie is on the phone for him meaning they are still in contact.

It's not "over a year". It's 3-4 months. This is obvious to anyone following the series.

John Dodger

Killer_banana wrote: »

True and in Breaking ad I feel the vast majority of characters won't. However, as already said, there's no way Jesse would be put through so much just to get killed off. In my opinion if they were going to kill Jesse he would have died after he was dragged from under the car. I don't think his ending will be that happy, after all the guy has spent months being tortured and kept in a cage forced to cook and he'll blame himself for Andrea's death but he'll get semblence of a life back. Some people are saying he'll get a custody of Brock but that seems unlikely to me, especially since the police are most likely after him. I'm guessing he'll get a new life from the vaccum repair guy, go to Alaska like he was meant earlier in the season.

I also can see Flynn and Skyler getting an okay ending.

How would Jessie get in touch with the vacuum repair guy?

evolving_doors

John Dodger wrote: »

It's never been made clear but we do know that Walt was still in Gray Matter when first married to Skyler.

Ya I think the whole 'ex teacher turned drug kingpin' missed the point...walt is an out and out chemist first and foremost...I think he sold outhis share to elliot and gretchen to get money together after getting married. Probably from this point on he felt cheated out of his lifes work as a chemist. Hence he now feels doubly cheated watching the schwarz couple disowning him on TV AND...at the same time he now realises someone else is taking the credit for the Meth which he must realise its probably jessie (i think he knew todd couldn't get the process right).
Hell probably seek to finalise his revenge on jessie but realise jessie has been enslaved.

R P McMurphy

Armelodie wrote: »

Ya I think the whole 'ex teacher turned drug kingpin' missed the point...walt is an out and out chemist first and foremost...I think he sold outhis share to elliot and gretchen to get money together after getting married. Probably from this point on he felt cheated out of his lifes work as a chemist. Hence he now feels doubly cheated watching the schwarz couple disowning him on TV AND...at the same time he now realises someone else is taking the credit for the Meth which he must realise its probably jessie (i think he knew todd couldn't get the process right).
Hell probably seek to finalise his revenge on jessie but realise jessie has been enslaved.

Its a couple of years since I saw it so my memory might be hazy but didn't Walt and Gretchen have a thing going on and then she opted for elliot and that is why Walt bailed out of the company?

Chet T16

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Its a couple of years since I saw it so my memory might be hazy but didn't Walt and Gretchen have a thing going on and then she opted for elliot and that is why Walt bailed out of the company?

As i understand it Walt was with Gretchen and left her and the company for reasons unknown. Given that he feels cheated out of his share of the success my guess is he was pushed into leaving for some reason.

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Someone mentioned that Gretchen's (German?) family might have something to do with things. Walt was at her house for a weekend way back when. Something happened (what exactly, Gretchen didn't and doesn't know). Walt packed up and left, leaving her, leaving Gray Matter. If Gilligan has one last surprise in this series (and when Season 5 started, I would have put money on Gus's mysterious past coming back to haunt Walt), it might be clearing up the events of that weekend in flashback and centralising the Elliott and Gretchen storyline. Gretchen's father: "Walt, I want to pitch a great opportunity for you and Gretchen. My company, Madrigal, are branching out into new areas..."

trashcan

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The conclusion will be the Nazis telling Walt and Jesse that one of them will survive, the one that can cook the highest quality. Jesse cooks the better meth and Walt is killed.

Most hardcore edition of Masterchef ever

Basq

trashcan wrote: »

Most hardcore edition of Masterchef ever

"Cooking doesn't get tougher than this!"

jcsoulinger

Madame K wrote: »

I had the terrible feeling that Walt shows up to his destination with the big gun, has one of those coughing fits then drops dead.

Can't see this happening, if it does the term "damp squib" should be upgraded to "coughing walt"

DaveSuarez

I seen this on reddit, the reasons Walt and Gretchen broke up are explained in this 4 year old interview.

http://blogs.amctv.com/breaking-bad/2009/05/jessica-hecht-interview/

But it was easy because Vince Gilligan told us exactly what went down between the characters off screen: We were very much in love and we were to get married. And he came home and met my family, and I come from this really successful, wealthy family, and that knocks him on his side. He couldn’t deal with this inferiority he felt — this lack of connection to privilege. It made him terrified, and he literally just left me, and I was devastated. Walt is fighting his way out of going back to that emotional place, so he says, “F— you.”

vitani

John Dodger wrote: »

You missed his point which was: did Walt know it wasn't blue all along? I don't think Lydia mentioned the colour at the car wash & as Walt had trained Todd surely he would not be surprised if it was blue.

Jack told Walter when he asked him to do another cook in exchange for killing Jesse.