Breaking Bad Episode 15: Granite State

Torqay

All true. He's an important character, contributing greatly to the show... but he doesn't have the brains to outsmart Walt.

And he still has two episodes to apply himself.

Mocha Joe

Torqay wrote: »

Jesse didn't even know about the money being buried. Jesse's splattered brains was Hank's (not their) idea to deceive Huell.

Jesse in his stupidity screwed up at the Plaza.

Jesse's "smart" ideas of taking down Walt involve such subtle methods as burning down his house.

Jesse identified Huell as the weak link in the chain. And knew the money was the best way to get Walt.

Jesse didn't screw up. He didn't want to get killed. Hank was being an asshole not caring what happened to Jesse.

You use a lot of wink faces in your posts. Gives off a smug impression.

Torqay

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Hank was being an asshole not caring what happened to Jesse.

Hank is the law, his job is to catch bad guys. Why would he play nanny for a "nut-job meth-head"?

Mocha Joe

Torqay wrote: »

Hank is the law, his job is to catch bad guys. Why would he play nanny for a "nut-job meth-head"?

Why put him into a really dangerous situation? Hank was being an asshole because of his obsession.

Torqay

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Why put him into a really dangerous situation?

Again, this was explained:

Gomie: What if the kid's right? What if it's a trap?

Hank: "The kid"? Oh, you mean the junkie murderer that's dribbling all over my guest bathroom floor? Well, then, he's right. Pinkman gets killed, and we get it all on tape.

mightyreds

Torqay wrote: »

Jesse didn't even know about the money being buried. Jesse's splattered brains was Hank's (not their) idea to deceive Huell.

Jesse in his stupidity screwed up at the Plaza.

Jesse's "smart" ideas of taking down Walt involve such subtle methods as burning down his house.

Have to agree jesses idea was the money, hank did all the figuring out where it was and tricking huell into giving up that it was buried.(well the clues that let them believe it was buried)

Torqay

mightyreds wrote: »

Have to agree jesses idea was the money, hank did all the figuring out where it was and tricking huell into giving up that it was buried.(well the clues that let them believe it was buried)

Well, if Pinkman would not have given them something better after he screwed up the initial plan at the Plaza, Hank would have thrown him in jail. They had his video confession, enough to put him away for life.

Torqay

Torqay wrote: »

Pinkman is a stupid f***tard and better be removed from the gene pool. He has proven his weakness and inferiority again and again over 60 episodes, missed plenty chances to kill me (hell, he couldn't even bring down me with the help of two seasoned law enforcement officers, intead he had them killed). Why should that change the in the final two episodes?

Should I point out for you that the spin off is not telling the adventures of Jesse, Badger and Skinny Pete?

Heisenberg, is that you? :eek:

Wacker The Attacker

jethro081 wrote: »

Jesse is for me, the most sympathetic character in the show. He is the only one who seems remorseful for the things that he has done, and his character arc has been as engrossing as walts for me.

Also, surely walt is the stupid ****tard as he got his brother in law killed, leaving himself face down in the dirt weeping having given away his "empire" earnings, in a bid to save a man who said himself that he was already dead.

I want resolution to jesse's story, as much as i want resolution to walts, though i hope both resolutions are very different. I'd like to see jesse experience some sort of cathartic closure, and be in a position to move on and have a decent life.

I hope walt dies roaring.

Jesse is a bitch. I was certain he was going to die but now I'm not so sure.

Mocha Joe

Torqay wrote: »

Again, this was explained:

Yes they explained Hank's reasons. I understand that. His reasons behind it are the same reasons I think he was being an asshole. I'm not saying Hank turned into a mental lunatic and wanted Jesse killed for no reason so yeah....unnecessary post.

You seem to be one of those smug BB fans that thinks he's a bigger fan than everyone else and thinks all of his opinions on the show are superior.

I like Jesse and think Walt deserves to die. That's my opinion. You don't like Jesse and still have sympathy for Walt. Fair enough.

Mocha Joe

mightyreds wrote: »

Have to agree jesses idea was the money, hank did all the figuring out where it was and tricking huell into giving up that it was buried.(well the clues that let them believe it was buried)

Tricking Huell was Jesse's idea.

Torqay

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Tricking Huell was Jesse's idea.

Only Jesse didn't have the faintest about Huell and moving the money, he was in the slammer at the time. Saul only got him out on bail much later.

Mocha Joe

Torqay wrote: »

Only Jesse didn't have the faintest about Huell and moving the money, he was in the slammer at the time. Saul only got him out on bail much later.

Jesse identified Huell as the weak link. When Huell thought Jesse was dead from the pic, he told Hank and Gomez about the rental van and the barrels.

Torqay

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Jesse identified Huell as the weak link.

Hardly a stroke of genius. Pinkman turned rat and when rats spill their guts they identify others, complicit in the crimes. Deceiving Huell, the figuring out and trapping Walt was Hank's finest hour.

Mocha Joe

Torqay wrote: »

Hardly a stroke of genius. Pinkman turned rat and when rats spill their guts they identify others, complicit in the crimes. Deceiving Huell, the figuring out and trapping Walt was Hank's finest hour.

Never said it was a stroke of genius. Juts pointing out that you were wrong. ;););););)

I have no problem with anyone being a rat. I'm not one of the Sopranos. I like Jesse. He's my favourite character.

I agree that it was Hank's finest hour.

mightyreds

I'm the opposite hated jesse turning into a rat the burning down the house I didnt mind if he had done it, but the turning walt in just didn't sit right with me didn't like it.

Did he identify huell I didn't realise, the way I see it he gets an idea but the bulk of the plan was usually walt and then hanks doing after.

sorry torquay I'm not sure what you meant when you quoted me I was agreeing with what you'd said, in my post.

Torqay

As much as I appreciate Pinkman's character and his importance for the show, he is stupid and easy to manipulate and one would be hard pressed to find any "smart move" on his part.

If he doesn't get his shlt together and applies himself in the final two episodes, I can't see him being the last man standing.

Torqay

mightyreds wrote: »

sorry torquay I'm not sure what you meant when you quoted me I was agreeing with what you'd said, in my post.

Well, yes, Jesse mentioned the money and he led them to Huell. But he needed to give Hank and Gomie something or he would have been back in jail in no time.

Handsome Bob

Torqay wrote: »

As much as I appreciate Pinkman's character and his importance for the show, he is stupid and easy to manipulate and one would be hard pressed to find any "smart move" on his part.

If he doesn't get his shlt together and applies himself in the final two episodes, I can't see him being the last man standing.

Walt is that you?

Oh and as for no smart moves.............magnets bitch!

Mousewar

Torqay wrote: »

Hardly a stroke of genius. Pinkman turned rat and when rats spill their guts they identify others, complicit in the crimes. Deceiving Huell, the figuring out and trapping Walt was Hank's finest hour.

You mean 'trapping' him out in the desert where Hank had no back up and no one in the DEA even knew about so he wound up dead. Yeah genius move. If Hank really thought Walt was so damn evil why did he leave himself so exposed?

Torqay

Because the show would have been over after 13 episodes, had Hank and Gomie brought a SWAT team to the party.

April O Neill

snausages wrote: »

The big question for me has always been Walt, themes of family, legacy, empire and hubris. The whole Hank thing comes closer to being 'filler' for me.

Hank was family.

banquo

TWO DAYS. And then only 1 episode left

Madame K

I do not know what I will do with myself once the show ends. But I will be happy to have my life back. I think...

krudler

Keeping off the internet the day after the last ep airs in the states until I get to watch it on netflix is gonna be torture.

Wanderer2010

krudler wrote: »

Keeping off the internet the day after the last ep airs in the states until I get to watch it on netflix is gonna be torture.

I wont get to see it until Wednesday evening due to work so pity me and all my internet-avoiding ways

krudler

What time does it usually go on netflix? if it's early enough I'll see if i can just start work later

banquo

9am Monday mornings.

lukin

Mousewar wrote: »

You mean 'trapping' him out in the desert where Hank had no back up and no one in the DEA even knew about so he wound up dead. Yeah genius move. If Hank really thought Walt was so damn evil why did he leave himself so exposed?

Yes I thought this at the time as well. Jesse knew Walter was planning to have him killed as he had already tried to lure him out using Brock and his mother. He was taking a massive risk meeting him alone in the desert (as was Hank).
He should have known that all Walt had to do was make a call on his mobile to his hitman and say "I got him. He's at .." (which is what happened).
I know Hank couldn't tell anyone else at the DEA about Walter 'cause he knew he was gonna get fired that very second.
Hence why he had no backup.

lukin

snausages wrote: »

The big question for me has always been Walt, themes of family, legacy, empire and hubris. The whole Hank thing comes closer to being 'filler' for me.

I dunno would I agree that Hank is "filler"; he's been Walter's nemesis for almost the entire series.
Third most important character after Walter and Jesse I would say.

begod

Mousewar wrote: »

You mean 'trapping' him out in the desert where Hank had no back up and no one in the DEA even knew about so he wound up dead. Yeah genius move. If Hank really thought Walt was so damn evil why did he leave himself so exposed?

I'm assuming he wanted everything tied up in a bow before he presented it officially to the DEA in that Heisenberg all along was his brother in law so he wanted to say look it was my brother in law all along but have the whole thing sorted and in the bag. Also officially with his connection to Walt he wouldn't be allowed to carry out the case if he went earlier and someone else would take credit for taking down Heisinberg.

briany

begod wrote: »

I'm assuming he wanted everything tied up in a bow before he presented it officially to the DEA in that Heisenberg all along was his brother in law so he wanted to say look it was my brother in law all along but have the whole thing sorted and in the bag. Also officially with his connection to Walt he wouldn't be allowed to carry out the case if he went earlier and someone else would take credit for taking down Heisinberg.

Hank at least had a hint that going after Walt would not be smooth sailing after Walt's 'tread lightly' line and knew that his life would possibly be at risk if he went after Walt, either directly from Walt or parties associated with him. He wasn't so dumb or foolhardy that he didn't know the danger of going after Walt with no backup. He knew the danger and simply assessed that the glory of finally getting Heisenberg and repairing his wounded ego would be worth it if successful and was willing to risk his own life in pursuit of this. A selfish move, really. Was leaving behind two widows, a dead partner and little chance of your body ever being found an acceptable risk?

He probably should have taken Walter's threat on board, but that would have meant breaking the habit of a lifetime in taking Walt seriously as an equal for once.

Penn

Jesse has shown himself to be very intelligent over the last few seasons. Easy to manipulate, but still fairly intelligent. The Magnets idea was his, he helped set up the Vamanos Pest lab (coming up with ideas to get it in and out in the music cases), he helped Mike out for a while (first one was set up by Mike and Gus, but after that he showed himself to be a useful asset) he figured out that Walt had poisoned Brock until Walt convinced him otherwise (in season 4, not this season), he helped plan the train heist and more importantly, he's a meth chef almost as good as Walt himself. Todd cooked with Walt for a few months and can't cook it right. Jesse could walk in to a lab in Mexico and with all the ingredients ready, could cook 96% pure meth.

Jesse's problem has always been that he's too emotional and lets it cloud his judgement. He was never cut out for the level of violence and betrayal Walt dragged him in to. Jesse was always small time.

But, he knows Walt. He might not be able to outsmart him one on one, but he has still shown himself to be resourceful and intelligent. He has "applied himself".

Torqay

Right now, Walt is the least of Jesse's problems. Todd has beaten the cr@p out of him and chanied him to the cooker.

snausages

lukin wrote: »

I dunno would I agree that Hank is "filler"; he's been Walter's nemesis for almost the entire series.
Third most important character after Walter and Jesse I would say.

I've don't see him that way at all tbh. He's not as volatile as Tuco or as coldly calculating as Gus. He's more a victim of Walt's crimes than anything. I don't think they would have set the scene of Hank's death in the latest ep any other way if that wasn't the case. What Hank represents more than anything at this point is Walt's downfall, or his peripeteia if you want to get all pretentious and Shakespearean about it.

The previous 5 episodes or so were all about setting up that. Which is why it's not coming down to Hank v Walt for the finale. It was never going to come down to that. It's always been about Walt.

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

snausages wrote: »

It's always been about Walt.

Correction: It's always been about Walt and Jesse. (After Season 1 became a hit.)

JONJO THE MISER

Going to wait until tomorrow night myself until i get a few cans in.

Dubhlinner

The whole grey matter/gretchen arc seemed to fizzle out despite seeming really important in season 1. With Hank dead and Jessie seemingly f*cked I wonder any chance it could be revisited.

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Dubhlinner wrote: »

The whole grey matter/gretchen arc seemed to fizzle out despite seeming really important in season 1. With Hank dead and Jessie seemingly f*cked I wonder any chance it could be revisited.

Earlier (before the final 8 episodes starting airing) I would have put money on Madrigal and Grey Matter being connected somehow; I actually thought that the ricin was going to Chez Schwarz in one of those packets of noodles Elliott and Walt "lived on" while writing their theses. Seems a bit late to be messing about with them now, though.

GoldFour4

We'll be seeing a fair bit of New Hampshire anyway I'd presume.

Dubhlinner

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother wrote: »

Earlier (before the final 8 episodes starting airing) I would have put money on Madrigal and Grey Matter being connected somehow; I actually thought that the ricin was going to Chez Schwarz in one of those packets of noodles Elliott and Walt "lived on" while writing their theses. Seems a bit late to be messing about with them now, though.

That's the thing, it seems far too late now. I figure they initially had an entirely different direction for the show in season 1.

Though of course, it is breaking bad, christ knows!

D-FENS

Torqay wrote: »

Right now, Walt is the least of Jesse's problems. Todd has beaten the cr@p out of him and chanied him to the cooker.

I doubt if this is Jesse's final contribution to the show. A showdown with Walt is very much on the cards.

SweepTheLeg

Great interview in Rolling Stone magazine with Bryan Cranston.

He persuades Jesse to end his relationship with Andrea, whom Jesse loves, and he poisons Brock, Andrea's son. He ruins Jesse's life!
Okay, hang on a second. [Laughs] Jesse is already a drug dealer, he's just a bad one, an inefficient one. So I didn't corrupt him there. Then the first killings. How did they come about? Jesse brought Krazy-Eight and Emilio into the picture. And they were going to kill us. So how is that Walt's issue about introducing death or destruction?

Vince says he's lost all sympathy for Walt.
Fúck him. [laughs] That, to me, is like hearing Vince say he's lost all sympathy for me.

Walt also stands by while Jesse's next girlfriend Jane chokes to death.
Hmm. Certainly some conflict there. But isn't it true that she got Jesse hooked on heroin? What happens to people who are hooked on heroin? They usually die, at some point. Now, that's certainly a justification, I'll grant you that. But it's like we were talking before. There is no clean version of this.

So does Walt deserve to live?
Does anybody? Was it fair that he got lung cancer, as a non-smoker? Does he deserve terminal lung cancer? You can open up a whole set of questions like that. What's fair?



Rest of the interview here http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/bryan-cranston-reveals-walter-whites-motives-20130917

Blue Crystal

TheSetMiner wrote: »

I reckon Lydia will meet Todd, see Jesse and persuade Todd to let him go. They'll probably ride then for the duration of the episode until Walt comes on the scene like some sordid porno.

Walt has a go and as he finishes he shouts "Whats my name?"

Cork boy 55

one more sleep

banquo

Speak for yourself...

Neil McCauleys Cooler Brother

Anyone pulling an all-nighter for this one? I'm in two minds (a bit like Walt).

banquo

The Heisenberg in me is encouraging me to stream it... not in until 10AM tomorrow however...

Scar Tissue

What time is it streaming at here? If anyone doesnt have any ways to watch it in decent quality can they please not PM me

banquo

2am.