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Tenant wants to be back when surveyor accessing unit

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    #32
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    The EA hsa been in touch with the tenants and they have said no. No one in without them while they are away on holiday. It's a perfectly valid reason they have and it should be respected.

    I wouldn't be happy with my LL or his EA if they didn't respect my decision while I was away on holiday. If I got back and found they went ahead with it, I'd make a complaint about the LL to PRTB and become quite difficult and unaccommodating towards the prospective buyers. You need a vacant property to drawn down a mortgage these days.


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    #33
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    The other issue is that if you enter the premises without permission and something goes missing or is alleged to have gone missing, you could find yourself on the wrong end of a burglary investigation.


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    #34
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Another question worth asking is how many other times recently has the tenant granted you or the agent/landlord access to the property in relation to the sale? You need to bear in mind that they are not obliged to go out of their way to facilitate things like multiple viewings/inspections, and only must grant access for inspections at "reasonable intervels" (ie once every few months). Ultimately it is still their home for the duration of the tenancy, and the most fundemental right afforded to the tenant is the right to expect peaceful enjoyment of the tenancy. This right is not to be overlooked just because the landlord wishes to sell the property.


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    #35
    downwithit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭downwithit


    See what they have agreed to in the lease agreement, serve the required notice and enter.


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    #36
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    downwithit wrote: »
    See what they have agreed to in the lease agreement, serve the required notice and enter.

    Just lol

    Some people just don't get it. You can write what you like into a lease but you cannot expect it to hold water if it signs away rights of a tenant. The LL can have an inspection if he likes every once in a while but he can't just say I don't like your answer, I'm coming in anyway. It needs to be agreed and in this case, the tenant has not agreed to a visit whilst they are not there.

    The tenants are being perfectly reasonable here. How would you feel if you said no visit while you were away on holiday, then came home and found out they did it anyway. You'd be livid. I ****ing would.

    Is it gonna be that difficult to wait til the tenant comes home and then get the surveyor in? After all you arranged a date for it without the tenants being asked in the first place.


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    #37
    Clive
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Clive


    yoginindublin wrote: »
    Hi! I have a question. We have already paid a deposit on an apartment unit that we are buying. We are very near closing (i have the mortage in the bank approved, my solicitor has reviewed the contract for sale and has a closing date on it) We had planned to have the unit surveyed this week. Early last week, my agent sent an email to the tenants about my surveyor accessing the unit and he got a reply a week later from the tenant saying that they are out on holidays and prefer to be back when we access the unit (apparently they have a lot of valuables that are out). My agent sent another email asking for when they will be back and its been a few days without any reply from them. The agent tells me that if they become difficult we can access the unit with the permission of the owner. Anyone have any opinion on this? Is this allowed? What if they don't want to move out?

    OP as has been stated, a landlord cannot enter a property (outside of an emergency) without agreeing this with the tenant. Anything written into a lease cannot reduce this right for the tenant. Your estate agent is either just wrong or lying to you - now at least you can deal with them on that basis.

    While you may feel aggreived that the tenant is refusing permission at the last minute as you see it - look at it from their point of view. They are granting you access to their home and all they are asking is to be there. They are on holidays presumably amd don't need to jump for an estate agent who may or may not have asked their permission with as much notice as claimed. Waiting a few days for a reply when someone is abroad is prefectly reasonable.

    Bear in mind that they are required to allow the landlord's agents access (at an agreed time) but that does not mean you and your surveyor. The tenants would be perfectly within their rights to never grant you access while they are in tenancy.

    I presume they've been accomodating so far, so give them the same courtesy.


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    #38
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,328 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    That is incorrect. While this is not an emergency the landlord does have reason to enter and has a right to enter. Reasonable efforts have been made to get agreement from the tenants.
    I would recommend that if entry is made that it is not made unaccompanied and that no one is allowed to remain there unaccompanied.

    THe landlord will have a right to enter to inspect the property. This does not extend those rights to a person entering on behalf of a third party (prospective purchaser).


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    #39
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Did you not get a call from someone in the building that they smelled gas coming from the apartment or that there may be a leak?
    Best check it out in case there is damage being caused by water or God forbid, a gas explosion.
    If you smelled gas then entering the property without the fire brigade and Gardai present would be the last thing I would do and even then the surveyor would most likely not be allowed in by the Gardai.
    yoginindublin wrote: »
    I actually informed the agent and the agent informed them a week ago and got no response until a day before we were supposed to do a survey the tenant says no. What if the tenant continues to make it difficult to access the unit. The agent has sent 3 emails already asking on when they can access the space and they have not been responsive.
    Agents, especially rental agents are the biggest cowboys and spoofers going! they will say whatever gets the job done as it won't ever fall back on them! The agents probably only informed the tenants the day before the survey, if so then no surprise that they said no!
    lilymc wrote: »
    You have to give the tenant notice before you enter, our apartment in Dublin city would be inspected when we were at work, we were given due notice and didn't mind. In this case as they have specified that they wish to be there they may have some grounds for dispute as they have specified that they only wanted it inspected with them there.
    Your LL has to give the tenant notice before they call to the door! if they want to enter for any reason then the time and date must be agreed between the LL and tenant!
    Marcusm wrote: »
    The landlord will have a right to enter to inspect the property. This does not extend those rights to a person entering on behalf of a third party (prospective purchaser).
    Only with agreement with the tenant, AFAIK If there is no response from the tenant for a number of weeks then the landlord must post a notice in a prominent position or on the door giving notice that they will enter in 7 days whether the tenant is there or not.


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    #40
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    djimi wrote: »
    And a surveyor is required to be in attendance for this because...?

    The tenants arent stupid you know.

    They mightn't be stupid but they are not there either. The gas smell went subsequently. Use your cop on.


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    #41
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    If they claim something is missing what then...

    They already been sent a request that the LL wants to enter.


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    #42
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    They mightn't be stupid but they are not there either. The gas smell went subsequently. Use your cop on.

    Its not as simply as saying "oh I smell gas; Ill just let myself in an sure my surveyor friend here can have a look around while Im at it". When the tenant gets wind of the fact that the surveyor was also in the property they will (quite rightly) take the landlord to the cleaners.


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    #43
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    beauf wrote: »
    If they claim something is missing what then...

    They already been sent a request that the LL wants to enter.

    That's why you go in accompanied. Its their word against yours.


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    #44
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    djimi wrote: »
    Its not as simply as saying "oh I smell gas; Ill just let myself in an sure my surveyor friend here can have a look around while Im at it". When the tenant gets wind of the fact that the surveyor was also in the property they will (quite rightly) take the landlord to the cleaners.

    Have you ever dealt with the PRTB? They have too much on their plate to be entertaining rubbish complaints like this.


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    #45
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    Have you ever dealt with the PRTB? They have too much on their plate to be entertaining rubbish complaints like this.

    If the tenant has to wait a year to get their judgement then what of it? The case will be heard eventually. I wouldnt mind waiting a few months/a year for a nice little cash windfall from a prick of a landlord who walked all over my legal rights.


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    #46
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    If he pays...


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    #47
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    yoginindublin wrote: »
    My agent who is acting on behalf of the landlord told me that the tenants asked was a 24 hour notice on when we will need access to the unit. We are supposed to meet today, 19/09 and the agent sent them the email about today's access on the 11th of September. The agent told me that the tenants were usually very cooperative but this time they were firm in saying that they didnt want anyone there without them. What about the rights of the landlord who is selling the unit?

    How would you feel about a bunch of strangers entering your home while you're on holiday and poking around? Things do happen, a friend 'lost' a laptop when the landlord organised viewings of his place, he had to get the Gardai involved.


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    #48
    drumswan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭drumswan


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    That's why you go in accompanied. Its their word against yours.
    Are you seriously advocating breaking the law to gain a minor convenience?

    Worst case the tenant could turn on the landlord, refuse to vacate and ruin the sale here. And for what? Because he hadnt the patience to wait for a reasonable time to enter the premises as per the law.

    I routinely set up cheap webcams at the entrance of any rented properties I take here due to cowboy landlords like yourself.


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    #49
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    yoginindublin wrote: »
    What if the tenant continues to make it difficult to access the unit.

    It's their home, not a 'unit'. They have the right to peaceful enjoyment of it.
    yoginindublin wrote: »
    The agent has sent 3 emails already asking on when they can access the space and they have not been responsive.

    Because they're on holidays for god's sake.


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    #50
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,322 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Why did you book it if they had not agreed? If they already ageed to viewings they have already put themselves out.


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