FIFA : Qatar WC to be held in the winter

Pro. F

I think a World Cup in the middle east would be a great idea. And if it had to be done in the winter then I'm sure a compromise could be reached. But Blatter lied about the Qatari bid when it was proposed and when it was being voted on. That should be enough to invalidate this particular proposal now.

The other issue is the fact that gays aren't allowed in Qatar. This needed to be sorted our before the WC was awarded. It needed to be fixed and the whole situation needed to be handled with tact. Blatter made jokes about gays doing things in public. Again, that should be enough to invalidate this WC proposal.

Hopefully some of the bigger leagues don't agree to release players when the time comes and it all goes to court. No way the Fifa leadership would win the court case with their track record of corruption and incompetence.

Dempsey

Pro. F wrote: »

I think a World Cup in the middle east would be a great idea. And if it had to be done in the winter then I'm sure a compromise could be reached. But Blatter lied about the Qatari bid when it was proposed and when it was being voted on. That should be enough to invalidate this particular proposal now.

The other issue is the fact that gays aren't allowed in Qatar. This needed to be sorted our before the WC was awarded. It needed to be fixed and the whole situation needed to be handled with tact. Blatter made jokes about gays doing things in public. Again, that should be enough to invalidate this WC proposal.

Hopefully some of the bigger leagues don't agree to release players when the time comes and it all goes to court. No way the Fifa leadership would win the court case with their track record of corruption and incompetence.

What lie did Blatter make? He wasnt directly in charge of the bidding process. It wont invalidate the proposal

Might aswell propose to take the WC off Russia aswell.

Clubs dont have a choice in releasing players. That track record is irrelevant because corruption is tagged against individuals within the organisation, not the organisation as a whole. I dont see FA's burning money against FIFA in legal costs, it would drag on for years and the one with the deepest pockets would win (FIFA).

Kidchameleon

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Its successfully hosted an AFC championship (equivalent of our Euros) so its not some Startrekian inhospitable planet where people can't function.

Just to point out, that was hosted in the winter.

Bounty Hunter

iDave wrote: »

The UK couldn't host a Winter Olympics because the climate doesn't suit. Why should Qatar host a World Cup. The reasons are the same.

Speaking of which would this (Quater WC) not clash with the Winter Olympics?

Benimar

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Speaking of which would this (Quater WC) not clash with the Winter Olympics?

No, Winter Olympics take place in the early part of the year, the World Cup would be in the latter half.

Pro. F

Dempsey wrote: »

What lie did Blatter make? He wasnt directly in charge of the bidding process. It wont invalidate the proposal

Might aswell propose to take the WC off Russia aswell.

Clubs dont have a choice in releasing players. That track record is irrelevant because corruption is tagged against individuals within the organisation, not the organisation as a whole. I dont see FA's burning money against FIFA in legal costs, it would drag on for years and the one with the deepest pockets would win (FIFA).

I'm pretty sure I remember Blatter saying that the Qatari world cup wouldn't be a problem and would go ahead at the usual time of year. Then he changed his tune after a while to "lol no, of course that's not possible." Maybe he wasn't talking while the voting was going on though, I can't remember. But the original proposal that Qatar won the bid on was for a summer world cup, that's now been reneged on.

Don't know why you're talking about Russia. Their WC isn't going to be significantly different from the one they proposed.

I'd be surprised if the leagues don't have a case to bring to court where they could get out of releasing players for that WC. It's a significant departure from the normal calender.

The track record of the organisation is far from irrelevant. Blatter has been shown to have been a key part of the structure that let so much corruption go unchecked and any glance at the goings on at Fifa show how it is incompetently run. That would certainly count against them in a court case if it ever got that far.

ArmaniJeanss

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd be surprised if the leagues don't have a case to bring to court where they could get out of releasing players for that WC. It's a significant departure from the normal calender.

It would be a moot case to bring as the top players are going to go to the World Cup anyway, e.g., you aren't going to stop a Brazilian, Argentinian,Italian or German just walking out on their club to play for their country in the World Cup. And that will be the attitude of the majority of players; sometimes when we see Shearers, Scholes's or Carraghers retiring way before their time we forget that theres 210 other nations where playing for your country is still a massive thing.

Clubs can't legally keep players home against their will, and can't sack players either as that would be writing off a massive investment.
Could fine them 6 weeks wages or whatever but that just leads to ill-feeling down the line. Better for the leagues to grumble a bit and then just fall in with whatever months are selected by FIFA.

dan1895

Deleted User wrote: »

Is this how you spell Qatar in Cork? :pac:

In fairness he can't even spell Shels correctly

Kirby

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

can't sack players either as that would be writing off a massive investment.

Yes, they can.

Of course players are not "slaves" as Blatter has said in the past. A club can't stop a player from leaving. But they can sack them.

A player is under contract and like any contract, if you are supposed to show up for work and don't, you are in breach. They can then sue you for damages. I would imagine "damages" on some of the worlds best footballers would be over 50 million. Investment back.

People talk about player power but the relationship between players and clubs is a two way street. There a lot more pushing and pulling between the two than people realise. It's not a one way street.

ArmaniJeanss

Kirby wrote: »

A player is under contract and like any contract, if you are supposed to show up for work and don't, you are in breach. They can then sue you for damages. I would imagine "damages" on some of the worlds best footballers would be over 50 million. Investment back.

Not a chance a court in any EU country would award anything like that against a mere employee who has at most gone awol for 6/7 weeks before turning up for work again. If perchance you got a court to award it then any decent lawyer would be able to push it down a 10 year appeals process. Investment effectively lost.
Again its not a path any club would want to go down.
Grumbling a bit, threatening a bit through the media, getting FIFA to drop a friendly date or two and share a bit of revenue, then agreeing to a winter world cup. Thats where this is headed.

RoryMac

Hold the final on Xmas day so I can get out of visiting the in-laws

Dempsey

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I remember Blatter saying that the Qatari world cup wouldn't be a problem and would go ahead at the usual time of year. Then he changed his tune after a while to "lol no, of course that's not possible." Maybe he wasn't talking while the voting was going on though, I can't remember. But the original proposal that Qatar won the bid on was for a summer world cup, that's now been reneged on.

Don't know why you're talking about Russia. Their WC isn't going to be significantly different from the one they proposed.

I'd be surprised if the leagues don't have a case to bring to court where they could get out of releasing players for that WC. It's a significant departure from the normal calender.

The track record of the organisation is far from irrelevant. Blatter has been shown to have been a key part of the structure that let so much corruption go unchecked and any glance at the goings on at Fifa show how it is incompetently run. That would certainly count against them in a court case if it ever got that far.

You wont catch Blatters hand in the cookie jar. The bidding process wasnt directly supervised by him, there is a seperate committee setup to deal with event bids. The responsibility starts and ends with them. In general, Blatter can point to several efforts by the organisation to weed out corruption. We might agree that they dont go far enough but they can say they are trying and that probably would satisfy CAS.

It maybe abnormal but it wont be an unworkable occurrence, they have 9 years to prepare for this, that reason would be blown out of the water.

Pro. F wrote: »

The other issue is the fact that gays aren't allowed in Qatar. This needed to be sorted our before the WC was awarded. It needed to be fixed and the whole situation needed to be handled with tact. Blatter made jokes about gays doing things in public. Again, that should be enough to invalidate this WC proposal.

As for the bolded, they were referring to this paragraph. My comments about Russia's bid is in relation to the inequalities/racism that exist in both these countries and did you know that Russia passed an anti-gay law recently? There is not much in the difference in the two except for the punishments handed out.

snaps

Wasn't the bids for a summer world cup 2022 not a winter 2021 world cup? If its moved to winter 2021 should the bidding be re done?
could teams break away and form their own competition for summer 2022?

There was a piece in the Guardian yesterday about this.

I didn't realise Platini was pushing for the Qatar bid as much as he was at the time.

He also mentioned a winter world cup not long after they won the bid.

Blatter is an obvious hate figure and rightly so but Platini is as bad.


Link

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/03/world-cup-2022-sepp-blatter-winter-qatar

GavRedKing

The Guardian reporting that Blatter has said in the FIFA Press conference has confirmed it will go ahead to be played in Qatar 2022.

Edit : cant find any mention of summer/winter though.

jester77

GavRedKing wrote: »

The Guardian reporting that Blatter has said in the FIFA Press conference has confirmed it will go ahead to be played in Qatar 2022.

Edit : cant find any mention of summer/winter though.

I found this, so it looks like nothing being decided about summer/winter for a while.

"The executive committee decided to launch a consultation process among main stakeholders for Qatar 2022 dates," Blatter said on Twitter. "No decision will be taken before 2014 WC (World Cup)".

GavRedKing

So one thing is for sure no matter what the commitee decides its going to happen in Qatar 2022 is what I can see but as you said nothing will be decided regarding the Summer/Winter debate until after WC2014.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

So one thing is for sure no matter what the commitee decides its going to happen in Qatar 2022 is what I can see but as you said nothing will be decided regarding the Summer/Winter debate until after WC2014.

I'd imagine taking it away from Qatar completely would mean insane compensation etc.

GavRedKing

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd imagine taking it away from Qatar completely would mean insane compensation etc.

If they have no stadium or infrastructure fully completed at the moment would it cost all that much though?

They could probably claim on potential earnings for hosting it but the amount FIFA would have pay out would more then likely be made back from sponsors/ads/fans in a country better suited for the WC.

Its just guess work though on my behalf really.

Elro

GavRedKing wrote: »

So one thing is for sure no matter what the commitee decides its going to happen in Qatar 2022 is what I can see but as you said nothing will be decided regarding the Summer/Winter debate until after WC2014.

That pretty much confirms, at least to me anyway, that it will be switched to the winter. There is no way, despite what Qatar claim, that it can take place in the summer not unless they plan on air conditioning the entire country. It'll be interesting to see how they cope with the 3/4 seasons of disruption it'll cause and whether or not they'll have to pay compensation to the other bidders.

Dempsey

GavRedKing wrote: »

If they have no stadium or infrastructure fully completed at the moment would it cost all that much though?

They could probably claim on potential earnings for hosting it but the amount FIFA would have pay out would more then likely be made back from sponsors/ads/fans in a country better suited for the WC.

Its just guess work though on my behalf really.

Sepp Blatter wrote:

"The Fifa World Cup 2022 will be played in Qatar. There you have it."

Thats what Blatter said today so this notion of the WC being taken off Qatar was/is not on the table.

The WC is the jewel in the crown to showcase their huge infrastructure projects worldwide, which includes building a new city from scratch, they will fight tooth & nail to keep it. They've alot of infrastructure projects starting or underway, whether those were planned with the WC in mind or not would be something used by the Qatari's to slow the legal process of taking the WC off them.

I think FIFA recognise what would happen if they wanted to go down the path of taking World Cups off countries. Another country would want, ideally, 8 years (4 years minimum) to prepare for hosting an event of this magnitude, whether they have most of the facilities in place already or not. The Qatari's could bury FIFA in a legal process for years until its not ideal to change or create enough doubt about who is hosting & damage to FIFA & the World Cup bidding process for decades to come.

GavRedKing

I've no doubt it wont be changed, was more specualtion and what ifs TBH.

I suppose next major talking point is winter or summer WC and most people are expecting a winter WC and it will be interesting to see how they plan on changing the format of the leagues in the years building up to WC2022.

joe316

Dempsey wrote: »

Thats what Blatter said today so this notion of the WC being taken off Qatar was/is not on the table.

The WC is the jewel in the crown to showcase their huge infrastructure projects worldwide, which includes building a new city from scratch, they will fight tooth & nail to keep it. They've alot of infrastructure projects starting or underway, whether those were planned with the WC in mind or not would be something used by the Qatari's to slow the legal process of taking the WC off them.

I think FIFA recognise what would happen if they wanted to go down the path of taking World Cups off countries. Another country would want, ideally, 8 years (4 years minimum) to prepare for hosting an event of this magnitude, whether they have most of the facilities in place already or not. The Qatari's could bury FIFA in a legal process for years until its not ideal to change or create enough doubt about who is hosting & damage to FIFA & the World Cup bidding process for decades to come.

Fair point re the legal issues and no doubt the Qatari's would be looking for compo as well but the bidding process for the 2nd biggest show on earth is completely tarnished for decades already, until there is a complete overhaul of that shower in FIFA then things will never change. I have to applaud the Guardian for highlighting the sh1te conditions in Qatar for the poor workers, it may look like sour grapes but in my opinion they should do their level best to ruin this sham of a competition on a global scale.

kippy

It's all about the $$$$$$ lads, sport and all it is meant to stand for doesn't really come into it at the end of the day.

greendom

I don't have a problem with shifting the footballing calendar around to enable a Winter World Cup. It should not be beyond the wit of man to accommodate this even if it means 2/3 years of adjustments to national/European competition. Especially considering how much advanced warning everyone has.

What's wrong is the underhand way we have arrived at this point. It all seems very sordid and I hope the truth will out and that the guilty parties are exposed.

GavRedKing

If I was part of the English bid team I'd be p*ssed off too.

The average attendance last year across the EPL was about 35K a game, now if you take the biggest and best stadiums in England there capacities are higher then this.

Wembley, Old Trafford, The Emirates, The Ethiad, St James Park & Stadium of light are all 5 star UEFA stadiums, I'm sure with some investment you could easily update a few more stadiums and you've got the Olympic Stadium also to throw into the mix.

England have the infrastructure to host an Olympics in one densely populated city and they average the 2nd highest attendance in football in Europe, I think Germanys figure was near 40k but theyve only hosted it in '06.

England would have been the best candidate on paper that hasnt held the WC in coming up on nearly half a century so I just cant see, barring the obvioius ($$$$) why England hasnt got a WC.

GavRedKing

GavRedKing wrote: »

If I was part of the English bid team I'd be p*ssed off too.

The average attendance last year across the EPL was about 35K a game, now if you take the biggest and best stadiums in England there capacities are higher then this.

Wembley, Old Trafford, The Emirates, The Ethiad, St James Park & Stadium of light are all 5 star UEFA stadiums, I'm sure with some investment you could easily update a few more stadiums and you've got the Olympic Stadium also to throw into the mix.

England have the infrastructure to host an Olympics in one densely populated city and they average the 2nd highest attendance in football in Europe, I think Germanys figure was near 40k but theyve only hosted it in '06.

England would have been the best candidate on paper that hasnt held the WC in coming up on nearly half a century so I just cant see, barring the obvioius ($$$$) why England hasnt got a WC.

If they needed more 5 star stadiums Twickenham would be available and Cardiff probably would too. I think Elland road was mooted as an upgrade as well. Incredibly wasteful to start from scratch elsewhere.

EdenHazard

Is it just me or does the footballing world(as in the top level coaches and players) not seem to care? A winter world cup is just no good for us in Europe.

greendom

EdenHazard wrote: »

Is it just me or does the footballing world(as in the top level coaches and players) not seem to care? A winter world cup is just no good for us in Europe.

Sorry to point out the bleedin' obvious, but it is a World Cup. Is the need for some fixture readjustment once in a hundred years really that big a deal ?

RoryMac

I've no problem with a winter World Cup, after all plenty of other countries have to re-jig their football calendars to accommodate the summer one every 4 years.

I do however think that Qatar is unsuitable due to their treatment of migrant works, treatment of gay people and a host of other human rights issues.

Unfortunately there's not a hope of it being taken away from them

RoryMac

RoryMac wrote: »

I've no problem with a winter World Cup, after all plenty of other countries have to re-jig their football calendars to accommodate the summer one every 4 years.

I would have thought the last half century or so would've given them enough time to work around it.

Fr Tod Umptious

RoryMac wrote: »

I've no problem with a winter World Cup, after all plenty of other countries have to re-jig their football calendars to accommodate the summer one every 4 years.

I do however think that Qatar is unsuitable due to their treatment of migrant works, treatment of gay people and a host of other human rights issues.

Unfortunately there's not a hope of it being taken away from them

But Qatar was unsuitable even before we heard about the migrant workers, their attitudes to gay people etc

FIFA always preferred bids that had large populations, to fill stadiums during games, and bids that distributed venues across a wide area, for logistical and promotional reasons

Even before a vote was cast Qatar did not meet the above, so when they did win it was clear that something underhand had occurred.

I could not care less if it was summer or winter, and I am sure that leagues will deal with the change adequately and without much fuss.

Pro. F

Only saw this reply now, so apologies for the very late response.

Dempsey wrote: »

You wont catch Blatters hand in the cookie jar. The bidding process wasnt directly supervised by him, there is a seperate committee setup to deal with event bids. The responsibility starts and ends with them. In general, Blatter can point to several efforts by the organisation to weed out corruption. We might agree that they dont go far enough but they can say they are trying and that probably would satisfy CAS.

It maybe abnormal but it wont be an unworkable occurrence, they have 9 years to prepare for this, that reason would be blown out of the water.

If it's only the selection committee that sold the lie about a summer world cup in Qatar being feasible then that would still invalidate the process. Fifa could well wriggle out of this of course, I read somewhere that Fifa are now saying there was always a clause in the contract that allowed for a winter world cup. But it would be very interesting to see if Blatter or the selection committee did mislead, or were mislead, about what form the tournament would actually take.

I would doubt that Fifa's weak reform on corruption would portray them in a positive light to the CAS. If it ever went that far.

Dempsey wrote: »

As for the bolded, they were referring to this paragraph. My comments about Russia's bid is in relation to the inequalities/racism that exist in both these countries and did you know that Russia passed an anti-gay law recently? There is not much in the difference in the two except for the punishments handed out.

The Russian anti gay law makes it illegal to promote homosexuality, the Qatari one makes male homosexuality itself illegal. So there is a difference. The Russian one is less bad, although still bad.

Turtwig

Whatever country wins the world cup should collect the cup wearing gays right style Rainbow jerseys as a big F U to Qatar.

Also, the losers should wear something as a show of solidarity for the workers being exploited to build the infrastructure to host the world cup.

Cantona's Collars

Just announced by FIFA: the World Cup in Qatar will not be held in June & July.

LiamoSail

Absolute joke. If a country for whatever reason is unable to hold it during June/July, they shouldn't be allowed hold it. The notion of air conditioned stadiums was never viable

LiamoSail

LiamoSail wrote: »

Absolute joke. If a country for whatever reason is unable to hold it during June/July, they shouldn't be allowed hold it. The notion of air conditioned stadiums was never viable

Although I agree with you. Europe has been spoiled with their summer dates for so long that you kind of have to accept it as a once off.

LiamoSail

Deleted User wrote: »

Although I agree with you. Europe has been spoiled with their summer dates for so long that you kind of have to accept it as a once off.

Any truth in the rumour Delaney negotiated the switch to suit the LoI? :pac:

ArmaniJeanss

LiamoSail wrote: »

Absolute joke. If a country for whatever reason is unable to hold it during June/July, they shouldn't be allowed hold it.

Fairly terrible really to tell roughly 15% of the world that they should never host the World Cup.

googled eyes

ITV news has just ended there bulletin by saying FIFA has ruled out have the 2022 world cup during the summer months

googled eyes

It's official .

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 11m
World Cup 2022 in Qatar won't be held in summer months, Fifa official says

Al Capwned

zerks wrote: »

Just announced by FIFA: the World Cup in Qatar will not be held in June & July.

This is bloody ridiculous!!!

No way on earth Qatar should have gotten the bloody thing in the first place. FIFA politics at its worst.

Won't be just the 2022 season that'll be affected then surely - every bloody league in the world is gonna be disrupted in the season before and after, maybe even longer.

How Blatter (Sepp, not the boardsie) can stay in that job with everything he's done is beyond me.

Al Capwned

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Fairly terrible really to tell roughly 15% of the world that they should never host the World Cup.

It is, but practicalities would dictate that 15% can't hold it. You cannot expect the biggest tournament in the world, with the best players, and the biggest audiences to be held in 40 degrees plus.

LiamoSail

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Fairly terrible really to tell roughly 15% of the world that they should never host the World Cup.

What's so terrible about it? There's far more then 15% of the world that know they'll never host a World Cup owing to factors as out of their control as the weather

rob316

Wont be the same for sure. Cant understand why they gave it to Qatar in the first place.

ebbsy

Al Capwned wrote: »

This is bloody ridiculous!!!

No way on earth Qatar should have gotten the bloody thing in the first place. FIFA politics at its worst.

Won't be just the 2022 season that'll be affected then surely - every bloody league in the world is gonna be disrupted in the season before and after, maybe even longer.

How Blatter (Sepp, not the boardsie) can stay in that job with everything he's done is beyond me.

You obviously have not been paid off yet !!! It's in the post.

MagicIRL

I hope people just refuse to attend this money grabbing farce. Destroy the leagues all over just so the oil money can flow through Fifa's veins.

CHealy

2022 will be the year the World Cup loses its importance and stature in the world of sport. Shame on the corrupt FIFA for organizing this disaster. I can see a number of football associations actually boycotting this.

Fizman

Jim Boyce (FIFA Vice President) on SSN right now, saying he is completely shocked by the comments! Madness Ted.

ArmaniJeanss

Al Capwned wrote: »

It is, but practicalities would dictate that 15% can't hold it. You cannot expect the biggest tournament in the world, with the best players, and the biggest audiences to be held in 40 degrees plus.

Nope, but you can move it timewise.
To be honest the major issues here are the transparency of the bidding process and the outright FIFA corruption that led to the Qatar bid winning.
Also that the 'winter move' only got thrown at us after the bidding process had ended is terrible.

But the actual concept of the world cup being able to be played in different months to suit local climate seems fine to me.