FIFA : Qatar WC to be held in the winter

Cantona's Collars

The good news is that if Ireland qualify we'll get to go on the lash even more than normal over Xmas in 2022.

Al Capwned

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Nope, but you can move it timewise.
To be honest the major issues here are the transparency of the bidding process and the outright FIFA corruption that led to the Qatar bid winning.
Also that the 'winter move' only got thrown at us after the bidding process had ended is terrible.

But the actual concept of the world cup being able to be played in different months to suit local climate seems fine to me.

Taken in isolation, perhaps.
The problem I have with it however is the knock on effects this move would have on every league in the world for a season (or more) on both sides.

Jim Boyce's comments on SSN just now might indicate that Valcke's comments may not be a FIFA official line.

LiamoSail

zerks wrote: »

The good news is that if Ireland qualify we'll get to go on the lash even more than normal over Xmas in 2022.

A winter World Cup followed immediately by Xmas would probably leave most football supporting households worse off then then the recession ever did

Royale with Cheese

How the governing body of world football can be so openly corrupt and get away with it is beyond me. I'd like to think this will be some kind of watershed moment, doubt it though.

death1234567

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

How the governing body of world football can be so openly corrupt and get away with it is beyond me.

It's not just football, the IOC and UCI spring to mind (both also Switzerland based?).

As for this being a watershed for FIFA world cups? The World Cup in South Africa was the worst football competition ever held in the history of the game, terrible games, empty seats, white elephant stadiums in a country with no money and a huge poverty probelm, vuvuzelas. The next world cup in Brazil also looks like it will be full protests, poorly built stadiums, poor travel infrastructure, too much travel for fans/teams, climate concerns, etc. The world cup after that is in Russia (see Sochi Olympics) and the one after that is the farce in Qatar. The money will still flow and people will still watch on TV (which is all that really matters) and FIFA will plod along throught a sea of corruption and massive sponsorship deals.

kstand

A disgrace.
How are the leagues going to work around it?
They are talking of holding it between the 15th of November and the 15th of January.
So either way, each country will need at least 2 weeks to prepare for it. So you are looking at a 2 month break in the middle of winter.
I'd presure they will bring the start of the EPL forward to mid July and let it run until June or something?

gimmick

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Fairly terrible really to tell roughly 15% of the world that they should never host the World Cup.

Sure its equally awful that Madrid/Rio/Dallas could never host a winter olympics so.

If you do not have a climate to accommodate a tournament, you should not get the tournament.

mike65

The World Cup is being killed right in front of our eyes.

South Africa/Brazil/Qatar, so sure you could makes case for the first two countries of course but the way the tournaments have or are being handled is proving disastrous. Brazil will be lucky to even finish the stadiums and if they are actually up will they be safe? I'd have to wonder - a couple will almost certainly not be properly tested.

As for 2022, it will be between November 15 and January 15 according to the report, so does that mean the European leagues must start on June 1st 2022? or that they'll end in July the following year?

Royale with Cheese

death1234567 wrote: »

It's not just football, the IOC and UCI spring to mind (both also Switzerland based?).

As for this being a watershed for FIFA world cups? The World Cup in South Africa was the worst football competition ever held in the history of the game, terrible games, empty seats, white elephant stadiums in a country with no money and a huge poverty probelm, vuvuzelas. The next world cup in Brazil also looks like it will be full protests, poorly built stadiums, poor travel infrastructure, too much travel for fans/teams, climate concerns, etc. The world cup after that is in Russia (see Sochi Olympics) and the one after that is the farce in Qatar. The money will still flow and people will still watch on TV (which is all that really matters) and FIFA will plod along throught a sea of corruption and massive sponsorship deals.

The last decent World Cup they had in Germany, I was living in Cologne so decided to get some tickets to whatever game I could. First of all you could only pay via their sponsor mastercard (luckily I already had one), if you didn't have a mastercard they'd just link to you some page where you could apply for one. I applied for 2 tickets to any of the games in Cologne, the highest price for 2 tickets to the most expensive game in Cologne was €125 a pop. So in November 2005 Fifa debited my mastercard for €250, and said I'd get the money back in April if I wasn't successful. Eventually I got two tickets for €100 each to a group match and they gave me back €50. That's six months where they basically had interest free loans from everyone who applied for a ticket to any game, plus some kind of payment from Mastercard for forcing everyone to use that as a payment method. I'm surprised they don't just hold it in Europe every 4 years because they can get away with shít like that no problem, wasn't quite the same in South Africa for them.

Agent Coulson

This years World Cup may not be ready in time, 2018 in Russia may not be the best place to have it going by this years Winter Olympic protests and now this FIFA really are a disgrace. An independent group needs to go in a look at their books and iit need to be torn down and rebuilt again without the old guard there. New fresh blood is needed in FIFA. But I don't see it sadly.

This is the kind of thing that will turn people off football.

Marty McFly

An absolute shambles FIFA are a disgrace really, the World Cup in south Africa, Brazil, Russia and Qatar the icing on the cake really of four countries who should not have been given the World Cup.


Maybe this may finally be the final nail in the coffin that forces reform inside FIFA can't imagine the top clubs and leagues are going to take this to well.

Agueroooo

just skip the fúcking thing and we have an 8yr gap cause it is just the most moronic/disruptive thing I have ever heard.

really wouldn't be worth it.

and how anyone can see that this decision to grant Qatar the W.C was nothing more than motivated by money is beyond me.

The current FIFA boards have royally fúcked up here and should be seen for what they are.

Muff_Daddy

The actual staging of the World Cup in the winter doesnt bother me.

It's the shifting of the goalposts, and the hoops FIFA are jumping through regarding their own rules of actually staging World Cups, to accommodate this money spinning, farce of a bid from a country with an abysmal human rights record that bothers me.

googled eyes

lf the 2022 season was to start earlier or finish later, would it not encroach on the previous or following season. Its going to interfere with more than one season.

This is a bad idea.

2smiggy

It will probably interfere with 3 seasons i'd imagine

ArmaniJeanss

gimmick wrote: »

Sure its equally awful that Madrid/Rio/Dallas could never host a winter olympics so.

If you do not have a climate to accommodate a tournament, you should not get the tournament.

Olympics is an interesting example, what with Ronnie Delaney winning his gold in the Summer Olympics in December. And more recent games have taken place in July and October. So not beholden to a calendar date.
If there was ever a serious southern hemisphere bid for the Winter Olympics would the IOC be willing to move from its February slot to August, I don't see why not.

So similarly if the middle east only has an acceptable climate for a World Cup from October to February, is the peoples game really saying "No, Fcuk Off" to them? Would sadden me to have such an attitude from football fans but whatever.

The bribery and corruption around the Qatar bid, and slyness about the winter move only becoming an issue after the process are different issues as I've said. If say a future peaceful Syria bid properly and above board for a November WC then really whats the problem.

Red Crow

The problem is that Platini and his ilk back it. This problem is deep rooted in all of footballs governing bodies. Countries should boycott the WC.

kfallon

rob316 wrote: »

Wont be the same for sure. Cant understand why they gave it to Qatar in the first place.

Money, lots of it, you can be sure all the FIFA bigwigs have had their pockets suitably lined in order to push this thru!

Absolute joke of a decision, gonna ruin that season and will probably have a knock on effect on the following season too!

Would love if every supporter boycotted it!

iDave

I'm in favour of this purely because of the health of players and travelling fans, but boy what an unbelievable mess.

Duiske

googled eyes wrote: »

It's official .

Its not actually official though. Its just Jerome Valcke's guess at when the WC will take place. A decision won't be made until the end of this year. Having said that, its been obvious from the outset that the tourney could not take place in the summer months in Qatar, far too hot, so he may well prove to be right with the dates.

padd b1975

RIP to the credibility of international football.

mike65

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Olympics is an interesting example, what with Ronnie Delaney winning his gold in the Summer Olympics in December. And more recent games have taken place in July and October. So not beholden to a calendar date.

If there was ever a serious southern hemisphere bid for the Winter Olympics would the IOC be willing to move from its February slot to August, I don't see why not.

Football has pretty long seasons and moving them is the real issue. You could shift Olympics, IIAF World Championships etc around a fair bit before disruption is significant I'd imagine.

googled eyes

iDave wrote: »

I'm in favour of this purely because of the health of players and travelling fans, but boy what an unbelievable mess.

What about the health of the people who are building the stadiums etc. Nobody seems to give a fck about them.

googled eyes

Duiske wrote: »

Its not actually official though. Its just Jerome Valcke's guess at when the WC will take place. A decision won't be made until the end of this year. Having said that, its been obvious from the outset that the tourney could not take place in the summer months in Qatar, far too hot, so he may well prove to be right with the dates.

The whole decision to award them the tournament has been a shambles

kfallon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmyzFsYEdco

ThirdMan

It's called the World Cup for a reason. It was going to happen at some stage. Personally, I'm quite happy about it. The European leagues may be the best, but the entire sport doesn't revolve around them.

murpho999

Wasn't Australia's bid failed because they wanted to hold a Winter world cup?

Shamefully corrupt decision by Fifa.

There should be repurcussions from this.

Qatar and Russia are not fit countries for holding a prestigious tournament like the World Cup.

Would love to see countries break away and form their own federation and launch their own world cup in a civilised country that respects human rights etc.

Dickerty

Red Crow wrote: »

The problem is that Platini and his ilk back it. This problem is deep rooted in all of footballs governing bodies. Countries should boycott the WC.

Maybe Nepal will, because so many of it's citizens died in the stadium building. And maybe Israel, since they are not allowed entry to the country anyway (last I heard).

But no country that matters to FIFA...

jester77

It's a also a real balls for the fans. The best part of world cups is going to the public viewings or beer gardens and having beer and banter with rival fans. That will be non-existent with a winter world cup, especially for the last few weeks of December when people are busy with Christmas and family. Going to be a real buzz kill.

RasTa

Looking forward to it tbh, something different

Francie Barrett

murpho999 wrote: »

Qatar and Russia are not fit countries for holding a prestigious tournament like the World Cup.

Nail on the head

ArmaniJeanss

mike65 wrote: »

Football has pretty long seasons and moving them is the real issue. You could shift Olympics, IIAF World Championships etc around a fair bit before disruption is significant I'd imagine.

100% agreed, though I'm sure other events have to work their way around such a varying Olympic schedule and do so with various mixture of enthusiasm and annoyance.

As I said if it had all been done above board (winter move laid out pre-submission, and if the bid was either the best or at least equivalent to other bids) I genuinely think football wouldn't have a problem with a winter world cup, and would have willingly come up with an 8 year plan to accommodate it. Its the corruption of the whole bid that is souring people which is a shame really.

jester77

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

The last decent World Cup they had in Germany, I was living in Cologne so decided to get some tickets to whatever game I could. First of all you could only pay via their sponsor mastercard (luckily I already had one), if you didn't have a mastercard they'd just link to you some page where you could apply for one. I applied for 2 tickets to any of the games in Cologne, the highest price for 2 tickets to the most expensive game in Cologne was €125 a pop. So in November 2005 Fifa debited my mastercard for €250, and said I'd get the money back in April if I wasn't successful. Eventually I got two tickets for €100 each to a group match and they gave me back €50. That's six months where they basically had interest free loans from everyone who applied for a ticket to any game, plus some kind of payment from Mastercard for forcing everyone to use that as a payment method. I'm surprised they don't just hold it in Europe every 4 years because they can get away with shít like that no problem, wasn't quite the same in South Africa for them.

I was at a good few of the games for that world cup and I definitely didn't pay with mastercard, as I've never had one. Fairly sure it was a direct debit or bank transfer, but the rest was the same with money being transferred back a few months later. FIFA must make a fortune on interest from that racket.

Benimar

A complete and utter shambles from start to finish.

Qatar should never have gotten the World Cup for many reasons and to continue this farce rather than having a re-bid shows how FIFA works.

iDave

googled eyes wrote: »

What about the health of the people who are building the stadiums etc. Nobody seems to give a fck about them.

True. If it were up to me it wouldn't be held next nor near that place

I am pie

jester77 wrote: »

It's a also a real balls for the fans. The best part of world cups is going to the public viewings or beer gardens and having beer and banter with rival fans. That will be non-existent with a winter world cup, especially for the last few weeks of December when people are busy with Christmas and family. Going to be a real buzz kill.

Right, except of course for the southern hemisphere where of course it is winter in June/July and summer in Dec/Jan.

murpho999

I assume Ireland will boycott it like 2010 & 2014 by simply not qualifying.

ThirdMan

murpho999 wrote: »

Would love to see countries break away and form their own federation and launch their own world cup in a civilised country that respects human rights etc.

You could criticise any country based on human rights or other normative values. It just depends on what values you prioritise. I'm not trying to trivialise the very serious issues in places like Qatar or Russia. But thinking of ourselves (the West) as the good guys is a bit short sighted. The USA has huge human rights issues, but nobody would think twice if they were granted a major international sports event every year.

Dempsey

Its a very conservative/traditionalist view that the World Cup should always be held in june & july tbh.

Dickerty

Benimar wrote: »

A complete and utter shambles from start to finish.

Qatar should never have gotten the World Cup for many reasons and to continue this farce rather than having a re-bid shows how FIFA works.

To have a re-bid doesn't make sense, Qatar has not failed to meet any of it's commitments. The weather was always going to be what it is, they chose it with that already factored in, after very suspicious voting behaviour...

Banjaxed82

Dempsey wrote: »

Its a very conservative/traditionalist view that the World Cup should always be held in june & july tbh.

Actually, it's just a very practical view, given that most of the major leagues play outside the summer months.

Dempsey

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Actually, it's just a very practical view, given that most of the major leagues play outside the summer months.

FIFA have to promote the game around the world, not just when it suits the european leagues. Thats hard to do when you are restricted by when you can stage the World Cup and forced to maintain a European-centric outlook.

murpho999

ThirdMan wrote: »

You could criticise any country based on human rights or other normative values. It just depends on what values you prioritise. I'm not trying to trivialise the very serious issues in places like Qatar or Russia. But thinking of ourselves (the West) as the good guys is a bit short sighted. The USA has huge human rights issues, but nobody would think twice if they were granted a major international sports event every year.

Well I'm talking about rights for women,homesexuals, voting etc.

No country is perfect but places like US and countries in Western Europe have much higher human rights standards than where the next two world cups are being held.

GavRedKing

2 threads merged.

mike65

Dempsey wrote: »

FIFA have to promote the game around the world, not just when it suits the european leagues. Thats hard to do when you are restricted by when you can stage the World Cup and forced to maintain a European-centric outlook.

That would be a plausible argument if the Arabian Gulf wasn't mainly sand or water. Where next?

Dempsey

mike65 wrote: »

That would be a plausible argument if the Arabian Gulf wasn't mainly sand or water. Where next?

Irrelevant argument

Al Capwned

Dempsey wrote: »

Its a very conservative/traditionalist view that the World Cup should always be held in june & july tbh.

Perhaps it is, but I'd say it's also the most practical view, considering the fact that the majority of leagues in world football would play from August to May.
Holding major tournaments in the Summer causes least disruption to the majority of the players involved.

ThirdMan

murpho999 wrote: »

Well I'm talking about rights for women,homesexuals, voting etc.

No country is perfect but places like US and countries in Western Europe have much higher human rights standards than where the next two world cups are being held.

Absolutely. And I do think Qatar and Russia were poor choices for exactly those reasons. But I just don't think that blacklisting certain nations is progress. This is going to sound very idealistic, but perhaps opening its doors to the international community is what Qatar needs. Dialogue is important. Although I'm sure people said the same thing about China prior to the Olympics, and the jury is still out on that one. Anyway, I do agree with you. It's just dangerous to think of ourselves as the standard that others should be striving toward.

Cienciano

Dickerty wrote: »

Maybe Nepal will, because so many of it's citizens died in the stadium building. And maybe Israel, since they are not allowed entry to the country anyway (last I heard).

But no country that matters to FIFA...

Spot on. When it comes down to it, all the national football associations won't say anything. We'll hear a few club managers grumbling about fixtures and that's it.

ebbsy

Cienciano wrote: »

Spot on. When it comes down to it, all the national football associations won't say anything. We'll hear a few club managers grumbling about fixtures and that's it.

That's because whoever has to be paid off will be paid off.