FIFA : Qatar WC to be held in the winter

Benimar

Dickerty wrote: »

To have a re-bid doesn't make sense, Qatar has not failed to meet any of it's commitments. The weather was always going to be what it is, they chose it with that already factored in, after very suspicious voting behaviour...

The last part of your comment invalidates the first part

The voting behaviour alone would necessitate a re-vote in any transparent organisation. (And a lot of sackings)

I'm sure if Australia had thought the World Cup could be moved to November, their bid would have been a bit different given its their summer!

jmayo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Fairly terrible really to tell roughly 15% of the world that they should never host the World Cup.

So should Ireland, Brazil, Asutralia get the Winter Olympics ?

Deleted User wrote: »

Although I agree with you. Europe has been spoiled with their summer dates for so long that you kind of have to accept it as a once off.

Accept it is not just a once off.
It has huge implications for the biggest football leagues in the world.
It affects multiple seasons.

It has implications for the summer tours some of the biggest club teams carry out to areas in the likes of Asia which actually may help spread the game.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Nope, but you can move it timewise.
To be honest the major issues here are the transparency of the bidding process and the outright FIFA corruption that led to the Qatar bid winning.
Also that the 'winter move' only got thrown at us after the bidding process had ended is terrible.

But the actual concept of the world cup being able to be played in different months to suit local climate seems fine to me.

Qatar getting it in the first place was a complete joke.
I know lots of us laugh and make gibes about England, but jaysus christ the English and indeed the FA must seriously wonder why they bother when a country with no proper domestic football league, no history in world or local football, no real stadia, a fooking terrible climate, no great transport infrastructure, a terrible human rights record even against football professionals, a terrible archaic racist and sexist outlook would get the tournament ahead of them.

See the hassel the African Nations Cup throws up for certain clubs.
Now multiple that 100 fold and you get some grasp of how much hassel this could be for most real leagues in the world.

ArmaniJeanss

jmayo wrote: »

So should Ireland, Brazil, Asutralia get the Winter Olympics ?

What a silly argument. Like obviously Ireland does not have the climate for outdoor snow events anytime therefore of course Ireland shouldn't get the Winter Olympics. And Switzerland can never run sea sailing events.

However UAE, Qatar or Syria do have the climate to run a 31 day world football tournament, and can do so it appears from October to February.
So who are we arrogant Westerners to tell them 'fcuk off you can't host the world cup'. It's a terrible attitude for the alleged 'peoples game'.

jmayo wrote: »

Qatar getting it in the first place was a complete joke.
I know lots of us laugh and make gibes about England, but jaysus christ the English and indeed the FA must seriously wonder why they bother when a country with no proper domestic football league, no history in world or local football, no real stadia, a fooking terrible climate, no great transport infrastructure, a terrible human rights record even against football professionals, a terrible archaic racist and sexist outlook would get the tournament ahead of them.

Meh, neither I or anyone else was arguing that it was the best choice, and no-one can argue about its bad human rights etc. So honestly not sure why you are throwing such stuff my direction. All I've been talking about is the concept of a winter world cup and how it really shouldn't be a problem.

Also minor point is Qatar didn't get the WC ahead of England, they were bidding for different renewals.

Guy:Incognito

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If there was ever a serious southern hemisphere bid for the Winter Olympics would the IOC be willing to move from its February slot to August, I don't see why not.
.

That would still be a winter Olympics in the place its staged.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

So similarly if the middle east only has an acceptable climate for a World Cup from October to February, is the peoples game really saying "No, Fcuk Off" to them? Would sadden me to have such an attitude from football fans but whatever.
.

Are they not disrupting the game for a lot more of "the people" by ****ing around with 2 seasons of their leagues?

GavRedKing

What are Englands chances of the WC for 2026, 60th anniversary of 1966?

Muff_Daddy

Leaving aside the human right issues, climate or infrastructure, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't FIFA require a hose nation to spread the the competetion and people coming to the competetion across different cities in that country? At least that was always my interpretation of the rules regarding eligibility to host the tournament. Every country that has ever hosted the World Cup or indeed has bid for it has had many different stadia in many different cities spread across, to accommodate the fans of 31 other countries?

Qatar is what, one or two cities in a very small area of land relatively speaking? It's by far and away the smallest nation to ever even bid for a World Cup as far as I know. Did FIFA change the rules to allow Qatar in, or was there never a rule in place re: spreading the tournament across different cities is what I want to know.

I just don't think Qatar are a suitable host nation in the same way I don't think San Marino, Andorra or the Cape Verde islands are suitable.

ArmaniJeanss

GavRedKing wrote: »

What are Englands chances of the WC for 2026, 60th anniversary of 1966?

At the moment FIFA have a rule that the same continent/association can't have 2 out of 3 so Europe shouldn't be back in the mix until 2030.

snaps

GavRedKing wrote: »

What are Englands chances of the WC for 2026, 60th anniversary of 1966?

Not a chance......the fiji islands will get it!

LuckyLloyd

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That would still be a winter Olympics in the place its staged.




Are they not disrupting the game for a lot more of "the people" by ****ing around with 2 seasons of their leagues?

- Is it the 'World Cup' or the 'Summer World Cup' iyo? What season will it be in Brazil next year?
- How much of a problem is this really? You have fixtures fall slightly outside of the usual date ranges and then it reverts to normal

FatherTed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

- Is it the 'World Cup' or the 'Summer World Cup' iyo? What season will it be in Brazil next year?
- How much of a problem is this really? You have fixtures fall slightly outside of the usual date ranges and then it reverts to normal

Brazil has a "Winter" as we know it?. And slightly? How is 5-6 months later or before slightly in the middle of all of Europeans league seasons?

mikeym

I dont know whats all the hassle is all about.

The Premier League can finally take a winter break.

The Likes of Richard Scudamore are only interested in furthering their own ends and dont care about the game.

A winter world cup is the best option.

Agueroooo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

- Is it the 'World Cup' or the 'Summer World Cup' iyo? What season will it be in Brazil next year?
- How much of a problem is this really? You have fixtures fall slightly outside of the usual date ranges and then it reverts to normal

mikeym wrote: »

I dont know whats all the hassle is all about.

The Premier League can finally take a winter break.

The Likes of Richard Scudamore are only interested in furthering their own ends and dont care about the game.

A winter world cup is the best option.

out of interest how would you guys see the 2022 PL calendar pan out?

aidan24326

Dempsey wrote: »

FIFA have to promote the game around the world, not just when it suits the european leagues. Thats hard to do when you are restricted by when you can stage the World Cup and forced to maintain a European-centric outlook.

Of course they should promote the game, but that's beside the point because promotion of the game was not the rationale behind the decision to give Qatar the WC.

FIFA have long been a corrupt organisation and without going conspiracy theory on it it's an absolute certainty that votes were bought in this case.

Because there was no logical, justifiable reason to award the WC to Qatar otherwise. They're a bizarre choice and holding the tournament in Winter will be a logistical headache to put it mildly. I'd expect major resistance from the big European leagues and the big clubs.

Guy:Incognito

mikeym wrote: »

I dont know whats all the hassle is all about.

The Premier League can finally take a winter break.

The Likes of Richard Scudamore are only interested in furthering their own ends and dont care about the game.

A winter world cup is the best option.

It's not just the Premier League, it's at a different time to when the other leagues have their winter break. It's also going to be 6 weeks of all the players involved being away too. The winter break is 2 weeks.

Not having it in Qatar is the best option.

roanoke

It'll be interesting to see how the various leagues reschedule their fixtures to suit this tournament. Hopefully whatever happens will only affect the particular season in question, rather than knocking several seasons out of sync.

LuckyLloyd

Agueroooo wrote: »

out of interest how would you guys see the 2022 PL calendar pan out?

You have to start the season of the world cup slightly earlier, and the European season will finish later (by about a month give or take) with the following season starting three weeks or so late, and finishing two weeks or so later than usual. You suffer a condensed break and then are more or less back on track. What am I missing here?

Muff_Daddy

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

At the moment FIFA have a rule that the same continent/association can't have 2 out of 3 so Europe shouldn't be back in the mix until 2030.

Ah, well that's grand so. Can't be bending FIFA rules to shoehorn in any country. No way Jose.

LuckyLloyd

Also, seems like it will be nice for the South American season to be largely uninterrupted by a World Cup for once. Why is their schedule less important than the leagues we predominantly focus on?

ArmaniJeanss

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Ah, well that's grand so. Can't be bending FIFA rules to shoehorn in any country. No way Jose.

Lol, that's kind of why I phrased it that way FIFA rules can change all right.
But strictly speaking at the moment no European country could bid for 2026.
It would be fairly tragic if we have to go from 2006 to 2030 with only bloody Russia mind you.

Feeling slightly lucky that I'm old enough to have lived through Europe getting it every second tournament and when we did get it it was always Western Europe - Spain, Italy, France, Germany being the ones in my memory, and able to go to the latter two.
Not so much easy travelling in the future by the looks of it.

SantryRed

Would I be right in saying that all of South America, and the USA actually, play through the summer? So it doesn't disrupt them. I do not agree with it being in Qatar at all, but I don't see the big problem with moving the World Cup if it was to suit the right bid, such as Australia.

Guy:Incognito

SantryRed wrote: »

Would I be right in saying that all of South America, and the USA actually, play through the summer? So it doesn't disrupt them. I do not agree with it being in Qatar at all, but I don't see the big problem with moving the World Cup if it was to suit the right bid, such as Australia.

What percentage of players will they be supplying to the WC on average?

The MLS only finishes in November too.

Neeson

Wouldn't be arsed sitting down looking at a load of matches during Christmas. Also you have less viewers of a younger age with them being at school too.

GLaDOS

No problem with a Winter World Cup in itself. Prefer it in the summer but as said, why should everything be Euro-centric. Suits me fine as a LOI fan actually .

Don't like the manner of giving it to Quatar and then changing it though. Clear moving of goalposts to suit an already dodgy looking bid.

titan18

Having it around the leagues that supply the majority of players to the WC makes the most sense tbh. Who gives a damn about some crappy league that might have a handful of players missing.

It completely changes the calendar. Where does the lower divisions in countries fit in to the change, what about the qualify for UEFA Cup and Champions League that already starts in July, and the international continental competitions will have to move their fixtures e.g Euros, if it's the winter before hand, then all qualifying for the WC has to be done much earlier which will impact the Euros, and if the winter after, it impacts qualifying for Euro 2024.

Along with the Confederations Cup usually being the year before hand as a test run, how does that play into it, is there a long winter break the season before to fit that in

Dempsey

titan18 wrote: »

Having it around the leagues that supply the majority of players to the WC makes the most sense tbh. Who gives a damn about some crappy league that might have a handful of players missing.

How would that attitude help FIFA develop the game worldwide? It would only re-enforce the status quo.

titan18

Dempsey wrote: »

How would that attitude help FIFA develop the game worldwide? It would only re-enforce the status quo.

As long as all the money is in a handful of leagues, anything FIFA do is pretty pointless. The good players will just end up playing in those leagues. Either a country will be rich and insular enough to stand on it's own (US mainly) or it'll develop to a certain standard and then have all their players raided

Michael D Not Higgins

titan18 wrote: »

As long as all the money is in a handful of leagues, anything FIFA do is pretty pointless. The good players will just end up playing in those leagues. Either a country will be rich and insular enough to stand on it's own (US mainly) or it'll develop to a certain standard and then have all their players raided

Belgium being a prime example in recent years

~Rebel~

Any idea of specific dates yet?

As silly as I think the entire "Qatar hosting the World Cup" thing is, this could make for the bestest Christmas ever!

Cantona's Collars

FIFA might even consider moving the World Cup from Qatar altogether:

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/16/report-fifa-seriously-considering-moving-the-2022-world-cup-away-from-qatar/

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Ha yeah right. Sepp just wants another flashy sports car so is pushing for another massive bribe by the oil barons. How in the name of jesus he gets away with it I'll never know.

roanoke

It's a pity FIFA didn't strip Qatar of the finals the instant Qatar reneged on their promise of high-tech air-conditioned stadiums. Then again I wouldn't be surprised if FIFA knew this was going to happen before they even announced the winning bid.

Cantona's Collars

Uh,oh.

A senior Fifa official and his family were paid almost $2 million from a Qatari firm linked to the country’s successful bid for the 2022 World Cup, The Telegraph discloses.

Jack Warner, the former vice-president of Fifa, appears to have been personally paid $1.2 million (£720,000) from a company controlled by a former Qatari football official shortly after the decision to award the country the tournament.

Payments totalling almost $750,000 were made to Mr Warner’s sons, documents show. A further $400,000 was paid to one of his employees.

It is understood that the FBI is now investigating Trinidad-based Mr Warner and his alleged links to the Qatari bid, and that the former Fifa official’s eldest son, who lives in Miami, has been helping the inquiry as a co-operating witness.

The awarding of the 2022 World Cup to Qatar was one of the most controversial decisions in sporting history. The intense summer heat in the desert nation has raised the prospect of the tournament being moved to the winter for the first time.

Although Qatar has repeatedly denied wrongdoing during the bidding process, it has long been suspected that the decision was flawed, and several members of the Fifa committee have faced corruption allegations.

Today it can be disclosed that a company owned by Mohamed Bin Hammam, the Fifa executive member for Qatar, appeared to pay $1.2 million to Mr Warner in 2011.

A note from one of Mr Warner’s companies, Jamad, to Mr Bin Hammam’s firm, Kemco, requested $1.2 million in payment for work carried out between 2005 and 2010.

The document is dated December 15, 2010, two weeks after Qatar won the right to host the tournament, and states that the money is “payable to Jack Warner”.

Mr Warner’s two sons and an employee were paid a further $1 million by the same Qatari company.

One document states that payments are to “offset legal and other expenses”, but a separate letter claims that more than $1 million cover “professional services provided over the period 2005-2010”.

At least one bank in the Cayman Islands initially refused to process the payment amid fears over the legality of the money transfer. The money was eventually processed via a bank in New York – a transaction that is understood to have come to the attention of the FBI. A well-placed source said: “These payments need to be properly investigated. The World Cup is the most important event in football and we need to be confident that decisions have been made for the right reasons. There are lots of questions that still need to be answered.”

Mr Warner was one of the most experienced members of the executive committee until he stood down in 2011 and served as vice-president of the organisation for 14 years. He was one of the 22 people who decided to award Russia the 2018 World Cup and Qatar the 2022 tournament. It is understood that the FBI is investigating payments to Mr Warner and that one of his family members has been acting as a “co-operating witness”.

The investigators are thought to be focusing on Mr Warner’s American and Grand Cayman accounts.

Michael Garcia, the joint chief investigator of Fifa’s ethics committee, is also investigating irregularities surrounding the bidding process. He is expected to deliver his report to the committee later this year.

Today’s disclosures will add to concerns that some Fifa executive committee members were not impartial when they cast their votes in December 2010. England suffered a humiliating defeat when it secured only two votes to host the 2018 World Cup and was eliminated after the first round.

Even before the decision was made, there were persistent allegations of corruption. Six weeks before the vote in Zurich, a World Cup official was caught in an undercover investigation agreeing to sell his vote to one of England’s rivals. A second member of the same committee was recorded asking for £1.5 million for a sports academy. Both officials were suspended, meaning that 22 people voted instead of the usual 24.

A whistleblower also claimed that one of the bidders had bought the votes of three African executive committee members. The former Fifa employee later withdrew the allegations.

Following England’s defeat, a parliamentary committee held an inquiry into the failed bid. Lord Triesman, the bid’s former chairman, gave evidence stating that four Fifa executive committee members had asked for business deals and favours when negotiating their support. One of those he named was Mr Warner.

The Labour peer said that the then Fifa vice-president had asked for money to build an education centre in Trinidad, with the cash to be channelled through him, and £500,000 to buy World Cup television rights for Haiti.

In June 2011, Mr Warner resigned from all football posts after he was accused of facilitating bribes to members of the Caribbean football union on behalf of Mohamed Bin Hammam, who was standing against Sepp Blatter to be Fifa president. A report by the Fifa ethics committee found that there was “compelling” evidence that Mr Warner was “an accessory to corruption”.

Mr Warner was caught on tape apparently urging fellow Fifa officials to accept cash gifts from Mr Bin Hammam, the disgraced former presidential candidate.

The documents seen by The Daily Telegraph raise further questions about Mr Warner’s activities. One email, which appears to have been sent by one of Mr Warner’s employees, shows that the staff member personally received $412,000 from the Qatari company and that Mr Warner’s son, Daryll, was paid $432,000. Daryan, his other son, was paid $316,000 via a company called We Buy Houses.

Regarding the payments to Daryan, the email states that he was “contracted … based on his understanding, contacts and history with the regional players who make up an integral part of the defence team … pursuant to Fifa bribery allegations. As stated in our letter of June 11, 2011, the value of US $316,000, and this is an initial deposit to offset legal and other expenses related to the matter.”

In July, a different email shows that “monies in the amount of $1.2 million” were wire transferred to J&D International, another of Mr Warner’s companies, by the same Qatari firm. It states that this is to “offset legal and other related expenses associated with regard to an ongoing matter”.

Mr Warner and his family declined to comment. A spokesman for Qatar’s 2022 World Cup organising committee said: “The 2022 bid committee strictly adhered to Fifa’s bidding regulations in compliance with their code of ethics.

“The supreme committee for delivery and legacy and the individuals involved in the 2022 bid committee are unaware of any allegations surrounding business dealings between private individuals.”

grenache

Can't say I'm surprised. Dogs on the street new that Quatar had bribed top officials. FIFA should now of course take the tournament off them, yet I can't see that happening.

bur

Agueroooo

FBI involved.

This should be fun.

googled eyes

Agueroooo wrote: »

FBI involved.

This should be fun.

Nesta99

'We buy houses'? much thought went in to codifying 'We buy votes' then.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Maybe they could rendition Sepp to Guantamno? He could scope it out for the next WC while he's there thus killing two birds with one stone. Its got to be at least as suitable as Qatar for hosting major football tournaments.

Guy:Incognito

Was Warner not taking backhanders for votes in the 2018 one too? Or was it running for Sepp's job?

keeponhurling

This gives FIFA an "out" if they do want to save themselves a huge amount of hassle for the next decade and take the World Cup off Qatar.

If there is evidence that officials were bribed, how can the decision realistically still stand?

the Telegraph would be fairly respectable I would have thought

RobbieTheRobber

keeponhurling wrote: »

This gives FIFA an "out" if they do want to save themselves a huge amount of hassle for the next decade and take the World Cup off Qatar.

If there is evidence that officials were bribed, how can the decision realistically still stand?

the Telegraph would be fairly respectable I would have thought

Who can get their house in order in 8 years for a world cup?
I see the english bid but would Fifa (and Blatter) go back after they started this scandal with their claims of bid buying.

Amirani

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Who can get their house in order in 8 years for a world cup?
I see the english bid but would Fifa (and Blatter) go back after they started this scandal with their claims of bid buying.

Can't be Europe really based on their unofficial rules. If not, USA is probably the standout candidate in terms of existing infrastructure.

Agueroooo

Investigators have their hands full..



all alleged of course.

snaps

NiallSparky wrote: »

Can't be Europe really based on their unofficial rules. If not, USA is probably the standout candidate in terms of existing infrastructure.

Australia?

keeponhurling

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Who can get their house in order in 8 years for a world cup?
I see the english bid but would Fifa (and Blatter) go back after they started this scandal with their claims of bid buying.

The candidates, if I recall right, were Australia, the USA, China and Japan/Korea again.

Pretty sure if they re-open it to those 4 bids, at least one would if not all would be interested.

USA + Japorea held the WC before so surely they can do it again.
Australia and China already have stadiums, just need to upgrade them.

At the time I thought it was bizarre that they would announce the hosts of 2018 and 2022 world cups together. So Russia had a whole 4 years less notice, but they seem fine with it.

Happyman42

Would it not be incredibly stupid to channel money/a bribe in this way though?
Not saying it is or it isn't.

Benimar

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Who can get their house in order in 8 years for a world cup?
I see the english bid but would Fifa (and Blatter) go back after they started this scandal with their claims of bid buying.

If the WC voting for 2018 and 2022 hadn't been done together, the 2022 vote would only be taking place next year, so there is plenty of time to get another country ready to host it.

Brazil only won the rights to this years WC in 2007, South Africa got the 2010 WC in 2004 and Germany the 2006 WC in 2000.

ConstantJoe

keeponhurling wrote: »

The candidates, if I recall right, were Australia, the USA, China and Japan/Korea again.

Pretty sure if they re-open it to those 4 bids, at least one would if not all would be interested.

USA + Japorea held the WC before so surely they can do it again.
Australia and China already have stadiums, just need to upgrade them.

At the time I thought it was bizarre that they would announce the hosts of 2018 and 2022 world cups together. So Russia had a whole 4 years less notice, but they seem fine with it.

As far as I can remember China didn't bid, Korea and Japan did, but separately this time.

I'm not sure if Korea or Japan would have the capability to host on their own right now, but with Tokyo hosting the 2020 Olympics they'll already have their main stadium ready.

The US can clearly host again, they've the stadiums for it, and if FIFA want to continue this whole bringing the World Cup to new places thing then Australia is a pretty damn good option. Its not as if there are no alternatives to Qatar.

It was pretty damn stupid of them to award both World Cups at the same time. Was there any particular reason for that? In retrospect it wouldn't take a psychic to predict some vote-swapping going on.

keeponhurling

ConstantJoe wrote: »

As far as I can remember China didn't bid, Korea and Japan did, but separately this time.

.

you're correct, as per wiki

"There were eventually five bids for the 2022 FIFA World Cup: Australia, Japan, Qatar, South Korea and the United States. "

I remember at time thinking that I wouldn't give it to Japan, Korea or US again so soon, so Australia was a very obvious choice.

Omackeral

keeponhurling wrote: »

you're correct, as per wiki

"There were eventually five bids for the 2022 FIFA World Cup: Australia, Japan, Qatar, South Korea and the United States. "

I remember at time thinking that I wouldn't give it to Japan, Korea or US again so soon, so Australia was a very obvious choice.

I wouldn't say giving it to the US would be 'too soon'. It will have been nearly 30 years by the time 2022 rolls around. That's mad! Australia would be a good option I think.