Should I raise the rent?

ash23

I rent and have always managed to knock at least 50 per month off the asking price. I'm non-smoker, come with references etc.

50e would be about 8.5% of the asking rents in my neck of the woods. I have yet to pay the asking rent of any place I have rented.
It would be my opinion and experience that the prices on daft.ie are marked up by about 8-10%. If I were looking for a place to rent, I'd be looking at places about 50e more than what I'm willing to pay and then negotiating the rent down, unless the rent is already at a reasonable price (rarely happens).

Maybe meet her half way and say market rate is 100e higher per month but she's a good tenant so you'll put it up by 50. Ok, so you're losing the potential to make 50per month but that's only 600 per year which is 2 weeks rent. Not really worth it when you consider advertising and showing the apartment, registering the new tenant and also losing a good tenant.

wexie

SolitaireX wrote: »

Going back to the original post there was no mention of the mortgage not being covered, just that the OP wasn't getting as much as other people were looking for in the area. That taken on its own sounded like greed to me.

.....if you want to be really simplistic about it you could call running any kind of business being greedy.

Lets say you work in a job where you're doing a good job, your colleague doing the exact same job with the exact same results is being paid significantly more than you and you haven't had a pay increase since you've started the job ages ago.

You've somehow found out and and take it up with your manager and HR.
Even though your personal circumstances haven't changed and you don't NEED anymore money.

Greed?

What do you think?

djimi

SolitaireX wrote: »

I seem to be the only person opposed to raising someones rent because everyone else is so I'll leave it at that, no point arguing a point if nobody is prepared to even entertain it. Enjoy the weekend.

You havent argued your point; you came in all guns blazing going on about greed, but havent exactly justified your viewpoint.

noodler

SolitaireX wrote: »

I seem to be the only person opposed to raising someones rent because everyone else is so I'll leave it at that, no point arguing a point if nobody is prepared to even entertain it. Enjoy the weekend.

In fairness, your comment was a bit OTT and is never going to go down well on this forum anyway.

OP, it would be very useful for you to pass on all this information to the tenant. I know I would fee alot better if my landlord/agent gave me good reasons for a rent increase.

Also, i know you said you found one property in the same block for 100e more but, and I know its less likely atm, there is always the possibility that this will be negotiated down. Also, is that the only one currently being advertised? I mean would the tenant find another property in the block being advertised for less/the same as you are currently offering?

helimachoptor

Raise it, in a similar position and the rent has been the same for 2.5 years.
We'll prob leave it wil after xmas but we'll look at it then a bit more seriously.

Faith

SolitaireX wrote: »

I seem to be the only person opposed to raising someones rent because everyone else is so I'll leave it at that, no point arguing a point if nobody is prepared to even entertain it. Enjoy the weekend.

You have no 'point'. You accused the OP of being greedy, and at no stage have you explained your opposition to rent increases.

Do you think rent should never be increased? Ever? At what point is it okay to increase the rent?

josip

Regarding the boyfriend, I think I read somewhere that it's acceptable on a standard lease for the tenant's partner to move in during the tenancy and it cannot be used as justification for a rent increase. Maybe someone with more knowledge would care to confirm/deny if that's the case, in which it'd be better not to refer to that when talking to the tenant?

foggy_lad

SolitaireX wrote: »

I seem to be the only person opposed to raising someones rent because everyone else is so I'll leave it at that, no point arguing a point if nobody is prepared to even entertain it. Enjoy the weekend.

I do understand where you are coming from, it is not nice to think that someone would just increase rent or other charges just because they can, but the op is entitled to ask for the market rent which would possibly be +€200 but is only looking to raise the rent by €100 which is very reasonable, much more reasonable than most other landlords would be. Many Landlords seek slightly above the market rent especially in a desirable area where there is a lack of good rental accommodation.

In my opinion the op is long overdue an increase in the rent they get from THEIR property.

If I owned a house with no mortgage or loans attached and was renting it out in your world I should be renting it for about €50/month, just enough to cover the property tax and water charges and any other taxes.

Gaillimh1976

FoxT wrote: »

Whoops,
Do you have a rental agreement with your tenant, and, if so, does it specify when rent reviews will be taking place?

(If you do not have a rental agreement, then that is something you should consider putting in place)

If not, I suggest you
- Let tenant know that your research indicates that rent is now below market rate.

- Tell her that you want to review it in Q1 next year (Lets say Feb 1), and invite her to do her own research as well. ie make it clear that you dont want to put the financial screws on her, but be clear that you will be losing out if things are let as they are for any longer.

- On Feb, renegotiate new rent with her, and also agree that you will review it annually (or at some agreed interval) in future.


-FoxT

Below info from PRTB website:

Tenants must have a rent book, written contract or lease with the
landlord.
Tenants must be informed of increases to their rent. A rent increase can
only occur once a year and according to the current market rate after 28
days’ written notice.



Think you are well within your rights to increase, and the tenant should know they are getting a good deal so don't think it will be a big issue.

djimi

josip wrote: »

Regarding the boyfriend, I think I read somewhere that it's acceptable on a standard lease for the tenant's partner to move in during the tenancy and it cannot be used as justification for a rent increase. Maybe someone with more knowledge would care to confirm/deny if that's the case, in which it'd be better not to refer to that when talking to the tenant?

If you are renting a property as a whole then you set the rent based on the property, not the number of people living there. You can review rents within the boundaries of the law, but thats the case irresepective of who is living there.

I would have actually said that, contrary to what you have read, the majority of leases would prohibit the tenant moving their partner in without the landlords prior knowledge, and the landlord must be informed in advance of any changes to the people who are living in the property.

seamus

Having extra tenants is not really a reason for raising the rent, however the landlord does have a right to know who is living in their property and the tenant is legally obliged to disclose this.

Especially in light of civil partnership regulations, it could be argued that a partner who has moved in automatically becomes a joint lessee after a set period of time, so the landlord needs to know that person is there for a variety of reasons.

johnnyskeleton

djimi wrote: »

Renting is a business; the OP is entitled to seek a rent review is the rent being paid is too low, and there is nothing wrong with doing so.

Even I, who am about to be evicted because the landlord is increasing rent, agree with this post.

murphaph

Increase it but not to full market rate as good tenants have their own worth.

Days 298

Up it to what you think its worth but first consider how much having a good tenant is worth to you.

Nonoperational

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Well said sir, it's one of the reasons why this country is in the state that it is.

Exactly. Somebody seriously thinking and asking for opinions on (very reasonably) raising the rent, is the reason the country is like it is. Not.


Unless your about 10 years of age, this is an incredibly stupid comment.

fussyonion

I think you've been a very fair Landlord, Whoopsa and I think it's only fair and right you raise the rent, especially since another tenant has moved in and like you said, there's more money coming in.

But apart from that, you've been generous so far and you're perfectly entitled to raise it within the market rates. Your tenant should understand how kind you've been and co-operate.

And if not, you'll have a new tenant as quick as you like-South Dublin's very sought-after.

the_syco

SolitaireX wrote: »

So in short, price fixing is ok as long as it's for property.

Renting is a business not a charity.

Deleted User wrote: »

The rent is much lower than market rates - even at the time she began renting that was the case, and rents in the area have increased. I'm not even looking to higher the rent significantly, only by €100 a month, which would match less desirable 2 bed in the area.

As it happens, the mortgage repayments are much higher than even market rates so it is costing me money to have a tenant there but that's not what this thread is about.

How much is €100 percentage wise? Are we talking 10% 20% or what?

SolitaireX wrote: »

no point arguing a point if nobody is prepared to even entertain it.

You're not arguing it, though. You mentioned it, but won't say why. Heck, when questioned, you pretty much reversed your opinion.

=-=

OP; talk about raising it €200 or so with the tenant, with a view of raising it €100 but still let the tenant have some "haggle" room so they think they got a good deal.

percy212

the_syco wrote: »

OP; talk about raising it €200 or so with the tenant, with a view of raising it €100 but still let the tenant have some "haggle" room so they think they got a good deal.

I wouldn't do the above, because if I were the tenant, I would balk at a 200 euro jump, and walk....now or later. I think 100 is fair and as suggested above give plenty of time, say you have researched the market, and that you want to schedule a review in the first quarter of next year. If she leaves, no doubt you will find someone quickly, but you have a relationship with this person that has value and is worth some consideration, over a new unknown quantity.

Fighting Irish

If you wanna be extra nice, try upping the rent 20 a month for 5 months, ease her into it

Grandpa Hassan

SolitaireX wrote: »

Sounds like pure and simple greed on your part. Are you struggling for cash, or is it just because other people seem to be getting more that you want the extra money?

How is putting the rent up to market rate being greedy???

stoneill

You could seek a rent increase based on wear and tear of more people living there. The free loading B*****d

RDM_83 again

As a renter here's my opinion
Ash23 made a good point about the prices on DAFT not necessarily being the price paid, and are you looking at your property with a dispassionate eye?

Because the part in your OP about reducing the apparently already good value rent so you wouldn't be without a tenant stands out, if the place was/is actually good value in that area before the reduction the tenant got you would have had been fighting tenants off with a big stick, the fact that it seems that you weren't or were worried about getting tenants makes me think that the place wasn't quiet such a good deal as you think.

The fact that the neighbours complained about a party (depending on the type of party obviously) too me as a tenant would make me wonder about sound proofing and the potential "fussyness" of the neighbors.
Also a single person renting a 3 bedroom place? are you sure she was living alone before?

If I was a tenant and the landlord mentioned raising rent by X it would cause me to do a few things.

1. See what the average rise in rents is in Dublin in the last 18th months, if the increase in rent is below that I might not bother doing the stuff below, if its above I would nearly certainly would.

2. Check out the other rental prospects, possibly only online but if its easy maybe arrange a viewing, contemplate moving out.

3. Consider the longer term prospects of staying in the flat, even if its not your intention raising the rent sends a signal that at some point it may become unaffordable and the rent will rise consistently. Rising rents are a reminder that a rental property is only a temporary place to live not a "home"

4. Take a look at the flat, is there anything that needs repaired or general maintance, become much more proactive in complaining about issues. This could be quite a bit of stuff if the tenant has been there a while.

5. Take a look at landlord behavior, become much less tolerant about any stuff like landlord calling over without 24 hour notice etc.

Because of all this I would probably become a "worse" tenant in general too (depending on my attachment to the place) as being a good tenant isn;t particularly rewarded.

In terms of the response SolitaireX is getting for his post, I understand why he's getting it but he is right in one sense.

Renting is a business, when prices rise without an increased cost to the business thats greed, nobody jumps to the defense of the fact that Tesco here have increased prices compared to the UK because the Irish market can sustain them charging that amount (in fact tesco gets dogs abuse for this).
Greed/Desire for increased profit is a simple fact of business. People might not like a popular poster being criticized but in this case its business and business is greedy.

PS I'd like to point out because it probably it sounds like I am a terrible tenant, after ten+ years of renting I've never lost a deposit or had any major issue with a landlord.

randylonghorn

murphaph wrote: »

Increase it but not to full market rate as good tenants have their own worth.

Days 298 wrote: »

Up it to what you think its worth but first consider how much having a good tenant is worth to you.

This, and others said it too, and you pretty much said it yourself.

Sounds like you would be very justified in seeking an increase, but by the sounds of it you have a good tenant and putting it up to the extent that she will look around for somewhere else, even if it isn't as good an apartment, probably isn't a good idea either.

Having an apartment empty for even a month is a significant loss of income, plus all the hassle of choosing a new tenant, plus if you get a bad tenant instead, they can cost you not only financially but in significant hassle and stress.

The trick is to settle on an increase (and as I say, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to seek an increase judging by the details you've given) which is still an attractive proposition for the tenant.

I would also agree with whoever said that prices on Daft etc. are often a starting point for negotiations rather than a true reflection of rents actually agreed in all cases. Someone who appears to a (sensible) landlord to be a good tenant who will stay around a while, won't cause hassle, will pay on time, etc., will often be able to negotiate a bit of a discount on the asking price. Might not have been the case so much 6 or 7 years ago, but it often is now.

I would also give good warning to tenant; I'd be inclined to arrange to meet for a chat well in advance rather than a letter in the post out of the blue.

Starokan

Its a judgement call really as a good tenant is worth their weight in gold; I personally would look at implementing an increase especially given the 2nd tenant; if after you talk you will know your tenants opinion and if you think she will move out then you can weigh up your options

wexie

RDM_83 again wrote: »

In terms of the response SolitaireX is getting for his post, I understand why he's getting it but he is right in one sense.

Renting is a business, when prices rise without an increased cost to the business thats greed, nobody jumps to the defense of the fact that Tesco here have increased prices compared to the UK because the Irish market can sustain them charging that amount (in fact tesco gets dogs abuse for this). Greed/Desire for increased profit is a simple fact of business. People might not like a popular poster being criticized but in this case its business and business is greedy.

That'd be a reasonable comparison if you said that Tesco is currently selling below cost and are now increasing their prices to somewhat alleviate the losses they're making.

We're not talking increased profits, we're talking decreased losses.

randylonghorn

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Renting is a business, when prices rise without an increased cost to the business thats greed, nobody jumps to the defense of the fact that Tesco here have increased prices compared to the UK because the Irish market can sustain them charging that amount (in fact tesco gets dogs abuse for this).
Greed/Desire for increased profit is a simple fact of business. People might not like a popular poster being criticized but in this case its business and business is greedy.

While I would take a lot of your points, it has been pointed out that the rent is below the mortgage repayments; so the business is running at a loss, in reality.

Seeking to break even or at least minimise the shortfall can't really be called greed in my opinion.

I do agree particularly that a list of "to do" items might be a side-effect; as a tenant myself I've let small things slide rather than moaning about them on the basis that moaning about them might just spark off a conversation about when the rent was last reviewed.

That said, though, usually such things will need doing anyway at some stage; they won't just go away.

miss no stars

randylonghorn wrote: »

I would also agree with whoever said that prices on Daft etc. are often a starting point for negotiations rather than a true reflection of rents actually agreed in all cases.

My experience in south Dublin is that the advertised rent is the minimum that the landlord will accept these days. Near amenities like the DART (as in the OP's case)? People are outbidding each other for rentals. It is absolutely not a renters market in south Dublin at the moment.

RDM_83 again

wexie wrote: »

That'd be a reasonable comparison if you said that Tesco is currently selling below cost and are now increasing their prices to somewhat alleviate the losses they're making.

We're not talking increased profits, we're talking decreased losses.

Yeah your right actually since I forgot about the reply where she posted about it being below repayments.

miss no stars wrote: »

My experience in south Dublin is that the advertised rent is the minimum that the landlord will accept these days. Near amenities like the DART (as in the OP's case)? People are outbidding each other for rentals. It is absolutely not a renters market in south Dublin at the moment.

The situation has changed apparently in the last few months but has it changed that much since 18 months ago, if its such good value the place would have high interest with no need for a reduction back when the tenant moved in.

Edit: that said I haven't looked at renting in South Dublin in years (due to it being overpriced)

miss no stars

RDM_83 again wrote: »

The situation has changed apparently in the last few months but has it changed that much since 18 months ago, if its such good value the place would have high interest with no need for a reduction back when the tenant moved in.

Edit: that said I haven't looked at renting in South Dublin in years (due to it being overpriced)

Yeah, finding somewhere then wasn't easy but a friend of mine's parents have a property in south Dublin and they put it back on the market recently. They chanced upping the rent and then had several parties competing for the place and offering extra rent if they could have it.

wexie

RDM_83 again wrote: »

The situation has changed apparently in the last few months but has it changed that much since 18 months ago, if its such good value the place would have high interest with no need for a reduction back when the tenant moved in.

I think that's the point some people are trying to make : if OP was really greedy she'd raise the rent at every opportunity and consequences (and tennants) be damned.

I think she's being very reasonable and the fact she's looking for feedback here (to me) indicates she's concerned about not taking her tennants for a ride. Even so though, the mortgage needs paying and I'd imagine an extra 100 a month may well make more of a difference to the LL here as the tennants.

If I was a tennant I'd look at this and think that it was good while it lasted but an extra 100 a month (presumably now with an extra income) wouldn't be worth leaving 3 bed, south Dublin appartment in walking distance of a DART station over. (wouldn't imagine there's too many of those either)