Match Thread - Clare v Cork All Ireland Hurling Final Replay

Rowley Birkin QC

brilliantboy wrote: »

There's a definite grey area.
Is the free considered "taken" when he begins to rise the ball, or when he actually strikes the ball? It has to be "taken" from the 21.

It's not much of an issue now. But what happens when everybody starts replicating it and the skill is taken to such a level where almost every free conceded around that area is a guaranteed goal?

It'll never reach that. Look at Nash's second 20 metre free today. He could have taken a simple point but gambled on the lift and strike and lost.

It's a skill to be honed and shouldn't be outlawed.

podmu80

Ace2007 wrote: »

Just on this - had Nash missed and hit one of the lads, they may not have been able to continue.

or have kids! I was thinking the same, could do some damage to be struck by a sliotar at that speed. but not much can be done about that issue I think. just seen JBM interview, class act!

thinkstoomuch1

Congrats to a superb clare team,no matter what we done,clare had an answer.

Very rarely u c a team outside KK, the last fw years,have such resolve,steel,balls,and the heart and will to win,polished of by pure hurling skills , and superb players.

I said in may clare were a team for the future,didnt think it be so soon.

Fully deserved,i said ye be sum team to beat us twice,couldnt c ye doing that.

But today proved how such a special team,with a very astute and brave manager ,and with such a young strong and large panel,ye could be the new Kilkenny.

Its hard to c any complacency with a team next under Davy.

Theres nt much you can do when your simply outclassed.In 140 minutes of hurling we were beaten by the better team.

Congratualtions.

theoneeyedman

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

It's a phenomenal piece of skill to lift the ball at 20m and strike at 13m. I don't see how the GAA can legislate for it. Leave it be I say.

On this.....
In football if a player is taking a free.say from the 13 meter line he must kick it at or behind the line. He cannot afaik throw it up in the air and run onto it and volley it from ay 8 or 10 meters out, or can he???

awec

Yea there's no chance I'd stand on the line for one of those. Would take a braver man than I.

Take one of those on the leg / stomach / chest / undercarriage and you'd certainly remember it! :pac:

Ace2007

podmu80 wrote: »

or have kids! I was thinking the same, could do some damage to be struck by a sliotar at that speed. but not much can be done about that issue I think. just seen JBM interview, class act!

Well if you stop him lifting the striking 4/5 yards closer to where the free was, then it wouldn't be as bad.

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

It'll never reach that. Look at Nash's second 20 metre free today. He could have taken a simple point but gambled on the lift and strike and lost.

It's a skill to be honed and shouldn't be outlawed.

so what happens if a young lad practise to the point, where he can flick the ball up 10 yards ahead and hit it - should he be allowed?

podmu80

awec wrote: »

Yea there's no chance I'd stand on the line for one of those. Would take a braver man than I.

Take one of those on the leg / stomach / chest / undercarriage and you'd certainly remember it! :pac:

you'd want balls of steel, literally!! i'd be shaking like a sh****** dog!

Rowley Birkin QC

Ace2007 wrote: »

Well if you stop him lifting the striking 4/5 yards closer to where the free was, then it wouldn't be as bad.



so what happens if a young lad practise to the point, where he can flick the ball up 10 yards ahead and hit it - should he be allowed?

Yes.

Try doing it.

Then try doing it 6 points behind in front of 80,000 people. It's a distinct skill nd I don't see why Nash should be penalised for utilising his abilities.

Grudaire

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Then try doing it 6 points behind in front of 80,000 people. It's a distinct skill nd I don't see why Nash should be penalised for utilising his abilities.

It's a skill, but when player welfare comes into question I don't think that any skill should be exempt from review.

In the meantime it's a skill that lead to the replay, and it should be used as much as it can be. Fantastic seeing so many goals today

[-0-]

JBM is a legend as well. Very gracious in defeat.

As pointed out on the Saturday Game... Clare scored 1 point in something like 20 minutes... and still scored 5-16 in the game. Unreal.

Rowley Birkin QC

Cliste wrote: »

It's a skill, but when player welfare comes into question I don't think that any skill should be exempt from review.

In the meantime it's a skill that lead to the replay, and it should be used as much as it can be. Fantastic seeing so many goals today

How does player welfare come into it?

dxhound2005

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

It's a phenomenal piece of skill to lift the ball at 20m and strike at 13m. I don't see how the GAA can legislate for it. Leave it be I say.

They could "legislate" for it. In fact there was a proposal to the Wexford convention last year that no free could be struck from a position closer than 20 metres to the goals. That would be the solution. The man who proposed it had the danger to players safety in mind.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/free-conundrum-throws-up-possibility-of-rule-alteration-29580327.html

He also expressed health and safety concerns. "I think what will happen is you will maybe have a young chap in goal and a big fella will hit a ball some day and drive the wire through the helmet and the GAA won't have a leg to stand on. Counsel will say it was a 21-yard free and he struck it from 14. Somebody can be killed from a ball struck from that distance.

podmu80

shane o donnell motm. deserved, cool "I don't give a f***, but secretly do" hairstyle too.

west cork lad

O donnell had to get man of the match. Hard to believe he is only 19

rebel girl 15

Shane O Donnell shows how well Davy Fitz understands his players - didn't tell Shane that he was starting until a few hours before throw in, which he admitted that it basically didn't give him any chance to be nervous since he suffers hugely with nerves!

west cork lad

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Shane O Donnell shows how well Davy Fitz understands his players - didn't tell Shane that he was starting until a few hours before throw in, which he admitted that it basically didn't give him any chance to be nervous since he suffers hugely with nerves!

He showed us how nervous he was in the first 20 min. ;-)

Grudaire

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

How does player welfare come into it?

Wait until someone gets injured from a full force sliotar to the body.

rambojon

west cork lad wrote: »

O donnell had to get man of the match. Hard to believe he is only 19

probably so ..but mcgraths contribution was immense..from the first minute when he blocked down a ball to laying em on a plate for o donnell his instinct for poaching is a joy to watch.. real eddie brennan job..ennis will be the place to be .not a fan of davy in general but hats off to him tonight.. clare fan.

nicowa

shockframe wrote: »

Mcgrath was my Man of the match. O Donnell faded badly in between his third goal and the point to put them 1 ahead.Mcgrath showed some fair industry all throughout and considering how far out he was when the ball broke his goal was sensational.

3-3 on the other hand....O donnell will surely be the rte choice.

I didn't see it myself, but those at the game said he sprained his ankle in between. Cos I couldn't figure out why they would take him off fit any other reason.

One_More_Mile

Cliste wrote: »

Wait until someone gets injured from a full force sliotar to the body.

Happens from penaltys too,-- Joe Quaid lost a nut from one.
Should there be no penalties or 21's? People get injured all the time in all sports it's part and parcel of sport- even non contact sport

Rowley Birkin QC

rambojon wrote: »

probably so ..but mcgraths contribution was immense..from the first minute when he blocked down a ball to laying em on a plate for o donnell his instinct for poaching is a joy to watch.. real eddie brennan job..ennis will be the place to be .not a fan of davy in general but hats off to him tonight.. clare fan.

You're not the only one. I spoke to plenty of Clare fans after the game in Croker who's only annoyance was Davy being at the helm.

Hyperbullet

Ace2007 wrote: »

so what happens if a young lad practise to the point, where he can flick the ball up 10 yards ahead and hit it - should he be allowed?

If a young lad practises that to a point where he can do that, he deserves to play county. Correct or not? Keepers aren't just for taking puck outs and saving shots nowadays.

Let the GAA legislate for this if they want to, but Nash shouldn't be the focus of ill feeling over using a sublime piece of skill allowed within the current rules.

west cork lad

rambojon wrote: »

probably so ..but mcgraths contribution was immense..from the first minute when he blocked down a ball to laying em on a plate for o donnell his instinct for poaching is a joy to watch.. real eddie brennan job..ennis will be the place to be .not a fan of davy in general but hats off to him tonight.. clare fan.

I thought McInerney was outstanding. When Clare were backs to the wall he stepped up. Cork fan.

nicowa

west cork lad wrote: »

I thought McInerney was outstanding. When Clare were backs to the wall he stepped up. Cork fan.

He's a fantastic back to have. Cleared the ball brilliantly.

relaxed

One_More_Mile wrote: »

People get injured all the time in all sports it's part and parcel of sport- even non contact sport

snooker and darts?

kupus

ONe hour RTE, one hour of the sunday saturday game. One hour for the showcase all ireland hurling final. Shame on you rte, Im ripping here about this. A game that is one of the best Ive seen and all we get is one hour....

If this doesn't show the bias and loyalty of where RTE executives are concerning gaa I dont know what will.

Anyways thank you Clare and Cork for producing a great final, and congrats Clare for a great hard fought win.

Hyperbullet

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

The man has no class.

Shouldn't have taken the bait here, but this is a joke. What Clare supporters were you speaking to exactly? The man developed a style of play that needed time to gel and it came right when it mattered most. Davy has been a fantastic manager, the players are flourishing under his methods, and he has been more than willing to talk to anyone on the street regarding how things are going, and I know that from experience.

To say the man has no class is an absolute insult to a now current All Ireland winning manager. Does Cody have class by your definition?

roshje

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They could "legislate" for it. In fact there was a proposal to the Wexford convention last year that no free could be struck from a position closer than 20 metres to the goals. That would be the solution. The man who proposed it had the danger to players safety in mind.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/free-conundrum-throws-up-possibility-of-rule-alteration-29580327.html

He also expressed health and safety concerns. "I think what will happen is you will maybe have a young chap in goal and a big fella will hit a ball some day and drive the wire through the helmet and the GAA won't have a leg to stand on. Counsel will say it was a 21-yard free and he struck it from 14. Somebody can be killed from a ball struck from that distance.

Health and Safety Authority will be looking into it now

west cork lad

kupus wrote: »

ONe hour RTE, one hour of the sunday saturday game. One hour for the showcase all ireland hurling final. Shame on you rte, Im ripping here about this. A game that is one of the best Ive seen and all we get is one hour....

If this doesn't show the bias and loyalty of where RTE executives are concerning gaa I dont know what will.

Anyways thank you Clare and Cork for producing a great final, and congrats Clare for a great hard fought win.

Up for the match last week was longer than that

One_More_Mile

relaxed wrote: »

snooker and darts?

Running,cycling,golf etc..

dxhound2005

One_More_Mile wrote: »

Happens from penaltys too,-- Joe Quaid lost a nut from one.
Should there be no penalties or 21's? People get injured all the time in all sports it's part and parcel of sport- even non contact sport

20 metres is almost 22 yards. Struck from that distance there is a danger of injury but struck from around 14 yards it is much more dangerous in my opinion. Especially with the momentum which Nash develops. I dread to think of the consequences if that ball had hit someone today. Davy Fitzgerald expressed concern about it after the first game.

http://www.thescore.ie/clare-davy-fitzgerald-cork-1091861-Sep2013/

podmu80

relaxed wrote: »

snooker and darts?

repetitive motion injury.
can happen when you've been single for a long long time as well....
back problems are common enough in snooker too I think.

victorcarrera

podmu80 wrote: »

How does this show its a foul?? to me it proves the exact opposite? he lifted it with the first attempt and struck it?

20m is not equal to 13 m. And no need for Hawkeye.

relaxed

kupus wrote: »

ONe hour RTE, one hour of the sunday saturday game. One hour for the showcase all ireland hurling final. Shame on you rte, Im ripping here about this. A game that is one of the best Ive seen and all we get is one hour....

If this doesn't show the bias and loyalty of where RTE executives are concerning gaa I dont know what will.

Anyways thank you Clare and Cork for producing a great final, and congrats Clare for a great hard fought win.

There as no minor game though, the senior final probably always gets about the hour anyway.

podmu80

victorcarrera wrote: »

20m is not equal to 13 m. And no need for Hawkeye.

fair enough. but its a grey area at best. the free was taking at the correct place, nothing states where the strike MUST take place though. its up for debate I guess. but its some skill to have on nashes part, not easy to do.

west cork lad

relaxed wrote: »

There as no minor game though, the senior final probably always gets about the hour anyway.

Would the minors get that much time. No. A game like that deserved more coverage

Hyperbullet

More Nash bashing regarding the free. Hurling is a dangerous sport to play, and those of us that have played it thrive on the physicality and the skill involved to survive 70+ minutes.

To those of you giving out about a bullet strike from the 20 metre line: What would you propose? The back line to be fitted with NFL-like pads? Name one other keeper than can hit the ball like Nash does right now? Petty argument if you ask me..

Spring Onion

Great win by Clare. Superb hurling. Hardly to believe that Cork led only once in the 2 games and yet nearly robbed it.

I can see this Clare team winning a few AIs over the next 5 years.

I wonder what KK and Tipp think about it all.

west cork lad

Hyperbullet wrote: »

More Nash bashing regarding the free. Hurling is a dangerous sport to play, and those of us that have played it thrive on the physicality and the skill involved to survive 70+ minutes.

To those of you giving out about a bullet strike from the 20 metre line: What would you propose? The back line to be fitted with NFL-like pads? Name one other keeper than can hit the ball like Nash does right now? Petty argument if you ask me..

Wear a cup to protect the jewels.

dxhound2005

Hyperbullet wrote: »

More Nash bashing regarding the free. Hurling is a dangerous sport to play, and those of us that have played it thrive on the physicality and the skill involved to survive 70+ minutes.

To those of you giving out about a bullet strike from the 20 metre line: What would you propose? The back line to be fitted with NFL-like pads? Name one other keeper than can hit the ball like Nash does right now? Petty argument if you ask me..

Surely the whole argument is about the ball being struck from far closer than 20 metres?

dxhound2005

west cork lad wrote: »

Would the minors get that much time. No. A game like that deserved more coverage

Maybe RTE 2 have a different audience profile on Saturday nights compared to Sunday. They had already given up a large chunk of normal Saturday programming time earlier in the day. There are many viewers with no interest in GAA or indeed any sport and they might complain about sport overload.

Hitchens

Spring Onion wrote: »

I wonder what KK and Tipp think about it all.

looking on admiringly .........(and enviously)

awec

An hour is enough time tbh. Anyone who wants more can watch the plethora of replays that will be on.

If they had gone on for any longer tonight it would have entered the realms of time wasting waffle.

mikeoh

As a delighted Clare man I just want to say JBM is a true sportsman and legend and can be very proud off his men ...as for Nash , he is unique , he brilliant he puts the fear of god in me no one gave out about the way John Aldridge took penalties for Ireland don't knock him for being a cute cork hoor!!

Hyperbullet

west cork lad wrote: »

Wear a cup to protect the jewels.

Ever play the game competitively? No way that would work. Helmets are essential, granted. However no player will ever aim for an opponent's nuts when hitting a free.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Surely the whole argument is about the ball being struck from far closer than 20 metres?

Counter argument: Should the free taker only be allowed rise the ball without taking any steps inwards? Makes for a tame free considering you can get no momentum behind the strike. Or do you make a 20 metre free a 30 metre free and allow for forward motion?

Right now no rule applies to stop Nash hitting the ball like that.

Again this is coming from a Clare man that as Nash ran up to hit that free, I hid behind my hands knowing he would blast the thing into the net. He gets so much power into the strike that I doubt any backline anywhere would stop it.

victorcarrera

awec wrote: »

It's just ambiguous.

I think there's a gap in the rule...

Where is the gap that says that one action of a 20m free can be executed at 13m. Throwing the sliotar forward 7m is not a lift. I don't think anyone is blaming Nash. The referees should be able to interpret these very clear simple rules. Also, how is it that the GAA did not make all refs aware of the rules since the first final. I think it will be implemented after this even without the need for specific rule changes. Just bring it to the attention of the refs. The long walk and puck out was fixed too without specific rule changes.

west cork lad

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Ever play the game competitively? No way that would work.


Yep have played at a competitive level. Never wore a cup either. Would have given the left one to stop a shot if it meant a all Ireland medal in the right pocket.

Neeson

mikeoh wrote: »

no one gave out about the way John Aldridge took penalties for Ireland!!

How?

Grudaire

victorcarrera wrote: »

Where is the gap that says that one action of a 20m free can be executed at 13m. Throwing the sliotar forward 7m is not a lift. I don't think anyone is blaming Nash. The referees should be able to interpret these very clear simple rules. Also, how is it that the GAA did not make all refs aware of the rules since the first final. I think it will be implemented after this even without the need for specific rule changes. Just bring it to the attention of the refs. The long walk and puck out was fixed too without specific rule changes.

Jaysus a ref would be shot if he interperated it like that off their own initiative... and rightly so, it would be very unfair to suddenly begin pulling it up as not allowed.

Hyperbullet

west cork lad wrote: »

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Ever play the game competitively? No way that would work.


Yep have played at a competitive level. Never wore a cup either. Would have given the left one to stop a shot if it meant a all Ireland medal in the right pocket.

Not sure if we're debating a point or not :P If people were to raise all the points on a body where serious injury could occur due to playing hurling then you would have 30 bodies on the field looking like the Michelin tyre guy due to "health and safety".