Match Thread - Clare v Cork All Ireland Hurling Final Replay

dxhound2005

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Ever play the game competitively? No way that would work. Helmets are essential, granted. However no player will ever aim for an opponent's nuts when hitting a free.



Counter argument: Should the free taker only be allowed rise the ball without taking any steps inwards? Makes for a tame free considering you can get no momentum behind the strike. Or do you make a 20 metre free a 30 metre free and allow for forward motion?

Right now no rule applies to stop Nash hitting the ball like that.

Again this is coming from a Clare man that as Nash ran up to hit that free, I hid behind my hands knowing he would blast the thing into the net. He gets so much power into the strike that I doubt any backline anywhere would stop it.

Every free that was ever taken involved a certain amount of forward momentum. But someone taking a 65 would never use the Nash method, just the "normal" technique, maybe about a metre. He can't be blamed for trying to gain an advantage but I think there should be a rule change of the grounds of player safety after what we saw today and in the first game. The link I posted earler has the answer from a change proposed by a Wexford delegate last year.

It read: 'In hurling, any free being taken, penalty or otherwise, no ball can be struck inside the 20-metre line. The penalty for breach of this is a free out. Linesmen and referees to police this issue'.

Hyperbullet

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Every free that was ever taken involved a certain amount of forward momentum. But someone taking a 65 would never use the Nash method, just the "normal" technique, maybe about a metre. He can't be blamed for trying to gain an advantage but I think there should be a rule change of the grounds of player safety after what we saw today and in the first game. The link I posted earler has the answer from a change proposed by a Wexford delegate last year.

It read: 'In hurling, any free being taken, penalty or otherwise, no ball can be struck inside the 20-metre line. The penalty for breach of this is a free out. Linesmen and referees to police this issue'.

Fair play for linking that. I think we're on the same wavelength though in terms of Nash being allowed to take such frees from his perspective... If he's allowed do it, then why wouldn't he? It's up to the referee to decide otherwise, and there's been two different referees now that have never blown the whistle on it.

awec

victorcarrera wrote: »

Where is the gap that says that one action of a 20m free can be executed at 13m. Throwing the sliotar forward 7m is not a lift. I don't think anyone is blaming Nash. The referees should be able to interpret these very clear simple rules. Also, how is it that the GAA did not make all refs aware of the rules since the first final. I think it will be implemented after this even without the need for specific rule changes. Just bring it to the attention of the refs. The long walk and puck out was fixed too without specific rule changes.

There is a gap IMO, and I don't think the rule around this is either clear or simple. I don't think the issue is with referee interpretations.

Defenders must be 20m from where the ball is struck. There is nothing in the rules (that I am aware of) that says a player cannot lift the ball forwards. There is nothing in the rules (that I am aware of) that stipulates that the ball must be lifted straight up, or at least the ball must be struck no closer than the distance from which the free is to be taken (i.e. 20m).

The current situation with the rules would suggest that for a 20m free, defenders would be required to run backwards when a player lifts the ball forward so as to maintain the 20m gap.

There are two solutions in my view:

1. Outlaw lifting the ball forward
2. Allow the ball to be lifted forward but struck no closer than the distance at which the free is awarded (i.e. for a 20m free you can begin your lift wherever you want but you must not strike any closer than 20m).

At the moment, it appears (to me) that the letter of the law is being exploited to break the spirit of the law - and whoever wrote the rule initially didn't account for players having the skills to gain valuable yardage on the lift.

rebel girl 15

west cork lad wrote: »

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Ever play the game competitively? No way that would work.


Yep have played at a competitive level. Never wore a cup either. Would have given the left one to stop a shot if it meant a all Ireland medal in the right pocket.

Didn't Joe Quaid lose one, don't think he ended up with an All Ireland medal though?

I don't feel as gutted as I thought I would - dunno is it because I'm so busy, or that I felt that Clare deserved to win it. Basic skills were lacking at times from Cork - Shane O Neill got badly caught out of position for one goal, the first goal was like something you'd see at a junior B match, too many Cork players could not get the ball into their hand first time. Pa Cronin running from the penalty spot way out to the wing to try and win a ball, it was a fantastic idea, but wrong man, because his marker was too fast for him.

Cork will learn a lot from it, I hope!

Ace2007

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

How does player welfare come into it?

Hyperbullet wrote: »

More Nash bashing regarding the free. Hurling is a dangerous sport to play, and those of us that have played it thrive on the physicality and the skill involved to survive 70+ minutes.

To those of you giving out about a bullet strike from the 20 metre line: What would you propose? The back line to be fitted with NFL-like pads? Name one other keeper than can hit the ball like Nash does right now? Petty argument if you ask me..

Ok, lets look at it this way, helmets only came compulsory a few years ago?

would you have been happy had player being standing on the line with no helmet and that bullet coming at you from 12 yards? - player safety?

As for proposal - simple - once you lift the ball, it is in play - if he wants to flick it on and run on to it he can - but the defenders at allowed to charge at him.

victorcarrera

Its getting late so my last post on this.

awec wrote: »

...
Defenders must be 20m from where the ball is struck. There is nothing in the rules (that I am aware of) that says a player cannot lift the ball forwards.There is nothing in the rules (that I am aware of) that stipulates that the ball must be lifted straight up, or at least the ball must be struck no closer than the distance from which the free is to be taken (i.e. 20m).

Yes there is.
Rule 2.2 (ii) A free puck, awarded for a foul by a
defending player inside his own 20m line
but outside the large rectangle, shall be
taken from the 20m line opposite where the
foul occurred.

The irish word puck is a direct translation for hit or strike.;)

awec wrote: »

The current situation with the rules would suggest that for a 20m free, defenders would be required to run backwards when a player lifts the ball forward so as to maintain the 20m gap.

With respect. A ridiculous statement. No further comment on this.

awec wrote: »

There are two solutions in my view:

1. Outlaw lifting the ball forward
2. Allow the ball to be lifted forward but struck no closer than the distance at which the free is awarded (i.e. for a 20m free you can begin your lift wherever you want but you must not strike any closer than 20m).

At the moment, it appears (to me) that the letter of the law is being exploited to break the spirit of the law ....

Agreed and as I suggested earlier. I didn't know it had been brought up at congress.

yomtea98

Its funny to think Nash was one of the first intercounty goalies to wear a helmet

Clareman

Lads/Ladies if you want to discuss the rules, there's a thread for that, this thread is for the match.

oodles19

[-0-] wrote: »

It's days like today that make leaving Ireland so bloody hard. Really wish I was back home with everyone celebrating - but I'll take a win no matter where I have to rest my head at night.

Fantastic stuff from the lads. I really hope they savour the moment and take it all in. Great commitment from them and a bright future ahead I hope.

Well done lads!

You lads who had to head off aren't forgotten, everyone at home knows there were fellas leppin' off the walks all over the world watching it. Best of luck to you with your new start!

allthedoyles

victorcarrera

OK, just one more.

Ace2007 wrote: »

...
As for proposal - simple - once you lift the ball, it is in play - if he wants to flick it on and run on to it he can - but the defenders at allowed to charge at him.

+1
Lift means vertical, not scoop forward 7 meters or more where the free taker is allowed to run after the sliotar taking as many steps as they like while the play is dead to all other players.

oodles19

Moneymaker wrote: »

Many congrats to Clare from a Dub. Some team you have, worthy champions.

Unreal game.

The game I want to see is ourselves versus you lot. You've a great team, and Davy v Anthony would be something else!

manofwisdom

Great end to a great championship. Well done Clare well deserved, enjoy the celebrations.

[-0-]

oodles19 wrote: »

You lads who had to head off aren't forgotten, everyone at home knows there were fellas leppin' off the walks all over the world watching it. Best of luck to you with your new start!

Very kind words - thank you.

I could be back before ya know it! The wife is mad to go back.

oodles19

[-0-] wrote: »

Very kind words - thank you.

I could be back before ya know it! The wife is mad to go back.

Give it a year or two. Enjoy the experience. Then make a call on it. I've been away myself, loved it, but home is home. We're in a ball of ****e back here, but it's OUR ball of ****e! I hope the right team won for you today btw! :-)

[-0-]

oodles19 wrote: »

Give it a year or two. Enjoy the experience. Then make a call on it. I've been away myself, loved it, but home is home. We're in a ball of ****e back here, but it's OUR ball of ****e! I hope the right team won for you today btw! :-)

It has been 2.5 years.

Every day I wake up I just want to go home more and more. Despite having savage pension/401k setup here in the states.

We'll see what happens. I'm going home for Christmas anyway.

The sister called me earlier from Newmarket on Fergus. Had the bar singing "It's a long long way from Clare to There". The bastards.

oodles19

[-0-] wrote: »

It has been 2.5 years.

Every day I wake up I just want to go home more and more. Despite having savage pension/401k setup here in the states.

We'll see what happens. I'm going home for Christmas anyway.

The sister called me earlier from Newmarket on Fergus. Had the bar singing "It's a long long way from Clare to There". The bastards.

Ah Jaysus, that's dirty pool! :-) You'll be home for Christmas anyway, good man (I know from experience it isn't easy to get flights that time of year). Give it a proper go over there man, it's the likes of you we'll all be relying on in a few years time to come back and give us a bump when things get better. In the mean time it's a great life experience surely ?!

[-0-]

oodles19 wrote: »

Ah Jaysus, that's dirty pool! :-) You'll be home for Christmas anyway, good man (I know from experience it isn't easy to get flights that time of year). Give it a proper go over there man, it's the likes of you we'll all be relying on in a few years time to come back and give us a bump when things get better. In the mean time it's a great life experience surely ?!

Jesus I do love it. I just can't imagine my kids not having Irish accents, playing hurling, and so on. The quality of life here is amazing but it's not home ya know? Fecks sake I miss the rain - that's bad now.

In the meantime, my nephews and niece are all growing up without me. Tis a balls but sure there's thousands like me!

oodles19

[-0-] wrote: »

Jesus I do love it. I just can't imagine my kids not having Irish accents, playing hurling, and so on. The quality of life here is amazing but it's not home ya know? Fecks sake I miss the rain - that's bad now.

In the meantime, my nephews and niece are all growing up without me. Tis a balls but sure there's thousands like me!

I know exactly what you're saying. It's a big part of why I came back, but there was no-one dragging me. Believe me, the nephews and nieces love having their American uncle! I'm with you on missing the bollox of weather by the way. Where I was they had seasons, actual seasons I tells ya!! Didn't know what to do with myself....:-)

hans aus dtschl

Genuinely surprised to see people going on about the 21 free's again. Not good enough that the ref brings it out to the 25, not good enough that the keeper's allowed run off his line, not good enough that the risk of flicking it forward means you've a way higher chance of fluffing it (Nash's last one for instance!), we now need to ensure that the ball isn't brought forward too far, too. Maybe the way to go is to review the awarding of 21 yard frees entirely?Bit of a reality check lads, this type of free has been going on for a lot longer than 3 weeks.

Just because Davy Fitz wants to gain a competitive edge, it doesn't mean the rules are wrong.

Not blaming Davy here btw, I'm just pointing out that this is realistically a non-issue.

hans aus dtschl

mikeoh wrote: »

As a delighted Clare man I just want to say JBM is a true sportsman and legend and can be very proud off his men ...as for Nash , he is unique , he brilliant he puts the fear of god in me no one gave out about the way John Aldridge took penalties for Ireland don't knock him for being a cute cork hoor!!

And for giving ye JBM we'll take Shane O'Donnell in return, who was also a model of graciousness, in his post match interview.

Deserved win by Clare today, and I'd say that lad will be delighted with the part he played.

SillyMangoX

There was some craic tonight in the pubs down here, I left not too long ago and I say they will be staying open a lot longer! Plenty of rounds of the lovely rose of Clare being sang, and it was love to see the blue and yellow taking the place over! Never thought I would be this excited over GAA but I am delighted that I am, and am looking forward to next years season already

hans aus dtschl

SillyMangoX wrote: »

There was some craic tonight in the pubs down here, I left not too long ago and I say they will be staying open a lot longer! Plenty of rounds of the lovely rose of Clare being sang, and it was love to see the blue and yellow taking the place over! Never thought I would be this excited over GAA but I am delighted that I am, and am looking forward to next years season already

And there'll be plenty more nights like it, with this Clare team I'd say.

victorcarrera

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Genuinely surprised to see people going on about the 21 free's again. Not good enough that the ref brings it out to the 25, not good enough that the keeper's allowed run off his line, not good enough that the risk of flicking it forward means you've a way higher chance of fluffing it (Nash's last one for instance!), we now need to ensure that the ball isn't brought forward too far, too. Maybe the way to go is to review the awarding of 21 yard frees entirely?Bit of a reality check lads, this type of free has been going on for a lot longer than 3 weeks.

Just because Davy Fitz wants to gain a competitive edge, it doesn't mean the rules are wrong.

Not blaming Davy here btw, I'm just pointing out that this is realistically a non-issue.

The thread is a discussion about events in today's game. One of the issues raised was the lack of implementation today of the very clear rules (already quoted) regarding the free puck. Not about individuals opinions.

Here is another.
RULE 4 - TECHNICAL FOULS
4.25 To advance the ball deliberately from the place
at which a free puck or side-line puck is to be
taken.

PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Cancel free puck or side-line puck.
(ii) Throw in the ball where the foul occurred, except as provided under Exception (v) of Rule 2.2.

Nerdlingr

Christ lads...fair play to both teams! They're after giving the irish public something to be proud of ..not just today but the last day as well. Unreal finals on both occasions...usually the replay doesn't live up to the first but they surpassed it tonight. Davy Fitz is the pantomime villain that everyone loves to take the piss out of but by God does he live and breath Clare hurling. Delighted for them. When you see the amount of young lads playing their hearts out their today,putting everything on the line (on both sides), giving a spectacle like they did...i dunno..19 years old o'donnell is!! f*cking hell...to get 3-03 from play in an all ireland final. It really is the best game in the world. Amazing, thats all i can say really.

Gerry91

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Maybe, but for some reason I don't see that happening. Tipp's manager walked away after the win. The key is in Davy Fitz, and I don't see him leaving them. Say what you want about his temperament, but he's turned into a brilliant manager. Fantastic tactics-wise, and even just the passion he injects is invaluable.

Also, when I say a new era, I meant more like an era of just brilliant, exciting hurling. This Clare team are phenomenal, but I think Dublin have an All-Ireland in them too if they can keep it together, and that Cork team definitely do, I'd say. Who knows what Kilkenny will pull out of the bag in the coming years too? It has the potential to be a fantastic decade or so of hurling ahead of us.

For what it's worth, I think this Clare team might be my favourite All-Ireland winners that I've seen in my lifetime. Just thrilling to watch.

Great post!

[-0-]

UP THE BANNER!

niallo27

I'm ****ed. Getting in bed. We watched the whole game once and the Saturday game 3 times in the pub. I still can't believe it. I was even getting nervous watching it the third time.

Ladiee Person

Thank you Clare and Cork for putting on the best hurling game I have ever seen.... OK I'm biased but hell it was a great contest. It was almost wrong that one of the teams had to loose but for once the tears that rolled down my face after the final whistle were for the right reasons.

It takes two great teams to put on the display we saw yesterday and while the U21 final was easier on my nerves it was not a good match to watch for the neutral nor did it do anything for the game of hurling in Antrim. Fair play to Cork for their "never give up" approach (not what I was thinking during the match mind you) but it was a privilege to watch that game and to see the amazing skills and talent on both sides.

Clareman

Clareman wrote: »

Clare to win by 4-7 points

What can I say, I'm a genius :pac:

I'm watching the match for the third time now again, still can't really believe that we are All Ireland Champions.

I have to say that every Cork supporter I met yesterday was a magnificent credit to their county

Rightwing

Clareman wrote: »

What can I say, I'm a genius :pac:

I'm watching the match for the third time now again, still can't really believe that we are All Ireland Champions.

I have to say that every Cork supporter I met yesterday was a magnificent credit to their county

Lucky prediction in many ways.

Clare were by far the superior and would have won it pulling up but for the ref.

Well done Clare, they'll be around for a while, that team would match KK at their best.

Warper

What a game, thrilled, means i have to go to back to Ennis for the homecoming so have to take tomorrow off totally suss.

Hats off to Cork too, for the first 20-25 mins of the second half they were outstanding. It was just an absolute joy to be at this years championship. It was pure skill by the both finalists and heres to more great battles in the years ahead.

Up hurling, the best game on the planet.

hans aus dtschl

victorcarrera wrote: »

Here is another.
RULE 4 - TECHNICAL FOULS
4.25 To advance the ball deliberately from the place
at which a free puck or side-line puck is to be
taken.

Nobody advanced the ball from the place at which the free puck was to be taken (i.e. where the ref placed it) - it was taken from where the ref placed it. Keeper came off his line to meet it accordingly.

I realise that this is the first time some people have seen this technique used, but it's genuinely nothing new.

This kind of talk takes the shine off what was one of the best Championships in a long time: it was (two) of the cleanest finals we've seen in years and people are complaining about the rules.

Keano

Unbelievable day yesterday. I gave and got some stick from Cork folk but we all shook hands after it was over...the joy of the game.

I saw all of O'Donnells goals up close as I was near the front of the Hill and I thought we were going to kill the game by HT but Cork are Cork and never gave up. There was a time when I thought we'd blown it again but those lads just love winning and refused to give in!

I got home around 12 and had 2 pints, got some food and watched the Saturday game just to take it all in...today is another day for a few pints!

pipelaser

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Anthony Nash didn't cheat. There's nothing in the rules saying he couldn't do what he did. It looked a bit crazy alright, and I think it's a rule that needs to be looked at, but he was well within his rights to do it at the time. If there's nothing stopping him, why wouldn't he?

I completely agree. DJ Carey used to use a similar technique with Penalties(I think he used to gain about 4m), nobody complained. Its a rule that needs to be changed

Ace2007

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Nobody advanced the ball from the place at which the free puck was to be taken (i.e. where the ref placed it) - it was taken from where the ref placed it. Keeper came off his line to meet it accordingly.

I realise that this is the first time some people have seen this technique used, but it's genuinely nothing new.

This kind of talk takes the shine off what was one of the best Championships in a long time: it was (two) of the cleanest finals we've seen in years and people are complaining about the rules.

When he lifts the ball it should be in play, but according to the "rules" it's not in play - for example Nash free were he messed up - why did he go to strike the ball, why didn't he say "o wait that didn't work, i'll retake it" ? or is the ball actually in play and he has to hit it, but not in play for the defenders/keeper to move off the line

allthedoyles

Rowley Birkin QC

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Shouldn't have taken the bait here, but this is a joke. What Clare supporters were you speaking to exactly? The man developed a style of play that needed time to gel and it came right when it mattered most. Davy has been a fantastic manager, the players are flourishing under his methods, and he has been more than willing to talk to anyone on the street regarding how things are going, and I know that from experience.

To say the man has no class is an absolute insult to a now current All Ireland winning manager. Does Cody have class by your definition?

Written in haste and immediately regretted and deleted.

He's unlikeable to the nth degree and his moaning about a grand conspiracy against Clare was laughable but there's no denying that he put together a superb hurling team

BQQ

Delighted Shane O'Neill had 4-3 scored on him.

After all the dirty strokes he's got away with this year, the karmic balance was somewhat restored by that humiliation.

Amprodude

BQQ wrote: »

Delighted Shane O'Neill had 4-3 scored on him.

After all the dirty strokes he's got away with this year, the karmic balance was somewhat restored by that humiliation.

Leave it be.

redzerologhlen

Amprodude wrote: »

Leave it be.

+1, there wasnt a dirty stroke by anyone yesterday. Great sportsmanship from both sets of players.

thinkstoomuch1

Amprodude wrote: »

Leave it be.

Shane cant be blamed too much as he aint a full back,never was.One goal i blame him for an awful ist touch.The other goals were he cant boss the square.

Its as much management fault as it is shanes,but to be fair,management had not a lot of options due to injuries.

It was like 2012 league final,maccie roasted by larkin ,but proved he is a fine corner back.


He is more a hurler than a commander in chief.Yesterday doesnt deface hes value in cork fans eyes,rather confirm what many of us have said in the cork thread,he is not a full back.

Two finals in two years we had a corner back at full,i hope in the next final we have a natural full back.

[-0-]

So homesick. The mother just met the man himself.

[-0-]

It's my grandmother's 75th birthday today. So much love for this photo. She looks thrilled.

keeponhurling

If you're homesick tune into ennisapp.ie http://www.ennisapp.ie/live-broadcast/
For the homecoming!

[-0-]

keeponhurling wrote: »

If you're homesick tune into ennisapp.ie http://www.ennisapp.ie/live-broadcast/
For the homecoming!

Lovely stuff. I was listening to Clare FM.

Some scenes in Newmarket!

[-0-]

My niece with Liam.



I'll stop now.

Ilik Urgee

As a Corkman just wanna congratulate Clare on a great performance yesrterday. Brilliant performance and sheer hunger paid off as ye never let us build up a head of steam-those 2 points when we came within 1 really help kill us off. Fair play and enjoy the celebrations.

Top year for the GAA in general with the cups going to so many different counties can only be a good thing for both skills. Even Mayo got in on the act!

oodles19

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

As a Corkman just wanna congratulate Clare on a great performance yesrterday. Brilliant performance and sheer hunger paid off as ye never let us build up a head of steam-those 2 points when we came within 1 really help kill us off. Fair play and enjoy the celebrations.

Top year for the GAA in general with the cups going to so many different counties can only be a good thing for both skills. Even Mayo got in on the act!

I think Hurling for the next few years is going to be exceptional, there's what? 6-7 teams in with a shout? Munsters going to be lethal and Leinster is competitive again. Great stuff!

Figerty

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

As a Corkman just wanna congratulate Clare on a great performance yesrterday. Brilliant performance and sheer hunger paid off as ye never let us build up a head of steam-those 2 points when we came within 1 really help kill us off. Fair play and enjoy the celebrations.

Top year for the GAA in general with the cups going to so many different counties can only be a good thing for both skills. Even Mayo got in on the act!

It takes two teams to tango; and we saw two great teams tango yesterday. Cork deserve massive credit for their performance and they are not going to be far away next year.

Really great game, with great skills, fitness and talent. Joy to watch.