Fingal County Council cuts down 1000 Trees

paddy147

...because "supposedly" they are blocking some street lights and women don't feel safe walking on the pathways at night.
Yet a lot of people thinks its a cost cutting measure by the council and nothing more

http://www.herald.ie/news/fury-as-1000-trees-given-council-chop-29595531.html



Does anyone here on Boards live in the areas affected by this,and if so...what do you think of all these trees being suddenly chopped down like this??




The way things are going......this fair city and county of ours will end up like the kids film..."The Lorax"..where we will have no trees or flowers left.

Sonnenblumen

People can think what they wish, Councils all over the country cut and remove trees all the time. This latest incident is for health & safety reasons, and the council has given a commitment that 'any cut tree will be replaced with a more suitable tree'.

This is a non story

The real story is that not enough people care about trees:mad:

allthedoyles

In my local town the Town Council cut down trees that had been growing 30 years , and they promised to plant replacements for each one , but it never happened .

paddy147

allthedoyles wrote: »

In my local town the Town Council cut down trees that had been growing 30 years , and they promised to plant replacements for each one , but it never happened .

Where would that be?

Its a shame when CCs dont keep their word and just seem to "forget".:(

allthedoyles

paddy147 wrote: »

Where would that be?

(

Small town in the Sunny-South-East

paddy147

allthedoyles wrote: »

Small town in the Sunny-South-East

Well that narrows it down alot.:pac::D

allthedoyles

paddy147 wrote: »

Well that narrows it down alot.:pac::D

Its in Co. Wexford

paddy147

allthedoyles wrote: »

Its in Co. Wexford

Shame they didnt replant the area.

Somebody seems to be also using the grass area as a bit of a shortcut between 2 carpark areas aswell?

magicbastarder

i've mentioned before, but a friend works in the council, and it's a 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' scenario frequently.
people complain about trees all the time - to the point where they get multiple requests for the council to come and sweep leaves out of people's gardens, because 'the council's trees' shed their leaves into them.

rovoagho

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've mentioned before, but a friend works in the council, and it's a 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' scenario frequently.
people complain about trees all the time - to the point where they get multiple requests for the council to come and sweep leaves out of people's gardens, because 'the council's trees' shed their leaves into them.

Only two words are required in this scenario. The second is "off".

paddy147

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've mentioned before, but a friend works in the council, and it's a 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' scenario frequently.
people complain about trees all the time - to the point where they get multiple requests for the council to come and sweep leaves out of people's gardens, because 'the council's trees' shed their leaves into them.

I know exactly what you are saying there with regards the council...........


Sure we may aswell not bother to plant anything deciduous in an urban setting then,because we dont want to uspet some residents.
Lets just dig up everything and replace them all with plastic trees and plants.





This is Fingall CCs reply/reason for cutting down 1000 trees.........

"We had received a complaint on behalf of a couple of young women residents who work shift patterns and return to the estate very late at night and felt unsafe because the estate was so dark," she said.





A freind of ours works for Fingal CC and in Ardgillan Castle,and even he said that they have gone way OTT this time and that it is down to cost cutting and nothing to do with "a complaint".
As he said himeslf....we may aswell just cut down every tree in Dublin,if thats their excuse and judgement on cutting down trees.


Tell you what though...between the reasons you give above and the Fingals reason....its a good excuse for other CCs to follow suit in and around Dublin and just fell hundreds or possibly thousands of trees in the near future.

allthedoyles

Looks like the leafy suburbs will be a thing of the past

neddynasty

How long before someone falls over a remaining tree stump and sues the CC.
Fairly lame excuse from the CC. looks like cost saving to me.

Oldtree

:eek: shakes head............

Sonnenblumen

Although I would be rarely defend any CC/OPW given the constant waste of money on many silly projects, on this occasion, if anyone was really concerned, a quick phone call would put their mind at ease.

Every year the CCs plant '000's of trees, in fact more trees are destroyed/damaged by vandalism than removed by CC's for safety reasons.

To suggest that any CC is removing trees to reduce costs is simply mad paranoia and has no basis in fact.

It is encouraging that people are concerned about leafy suburbs, that said, I would ask well what are such people doing to sustain such valuable community features? Apart that is from slagging off the CC's?

rovoagho

So you're saying it's OK to cut down a thousand trees because of what appears to be a couple of complaints? Or do you have a better explanation?

periodictable

Institutionalized vandalism. Typical of the gombeens who run this state.
Any chance of the chopping going the other way????

My Potatoes

This is just another knee-jerk reaction to a complaint or to a low number of complaints.

A few years ago DLRCC banned fishing on Killiney Beach because of a complaint when someone got tangled in some fishing line.

If you've any trees near you that you'd hate to see felled, consider getting a TPO on the tree(s). You don't need to own the tree or the land for this. It can be on public or private property, AFAIK. Should the TPO tree be felled, the offender is obliged to replace it, possibly with a tree of the same age!

CorsendonkX

I started a thread on this in the NCD forum back in 2011.

jameshayes

lots of mature trees given the lop in my estate, but they were promptly replanted with new ones (presumably more suitable)

also, most of the trees on cromwellsfort road in walkinstown were chopped and many replanted

theent

Trees in Fingal are cut according to a Tree Strategy voted by Councillors. Most of the trees planted 40, 30, 20 and 10 years ago are not suitable as street trees. A majority of them are cherry trees, Norway maples and lime trees. They are resistant to pollution but as they are often planted in small spaces, they outgrow the space and start to lift and destroy pavement. There is no point in fixing the pavement if the tree is still there. As far as I know the plan for the council is to replace the trees causing damage by more suitable trees: amelanchier, Hedge maples (Acer campestre), birches...
Most of the street trees in Fingal are 30-40 years old which is the maximum life expectancy for most street trees. As they are under a lot of stress and because they are pruned regularly, diseases and defaults are numerous on these trees which can make them dangerous. The risk is acceptable in forests but not in densely populated areas. Symptoms are fungi, included bark, swelling in trunk, dead branches in canopy....
I do not think the county council cut trees for fun: I will be easier to kick the can down the road and do nothing. It is expensive to cut trees and it is also dangerous! There is a pdf explaining their policy on their website but I cant find it anymore

Oldtree

theent wrote: »

Trees in Fingal are cut according to a Tree Strategy voted by Councillors. Most of the trees planted 40, 30, 20 and 10 years ago are not suitable as street trees. A majority of them are cherry trees, Norway maples and lime trees. They are resistant to pollution but as they are often planted in small spaces, they outgrow the space and start to lift and destroy pavement. There is no point in fixing the pavement if the tree is still there. As far as I know the plan for the council is to replace the trees causing damage by more suitable trees: amelanchier, Hedge maples (Acer campestre), birches...
Most of the street trees in Fingal are 30-40 years old which is the maximum life expectancy for most street trees. As they are under a lot of stress and because they are pruned regularly, diseases and defaults are numerous on these trees which can make them dangerous. The risk is acceptable in forests but not in densely populated areas. Symptoms are fungi, included bark, swelling in trunk, dead branches in canopy....
I do not think the county council cut trees for fun: I will be easier to kick the can down the road and do nothing. It is expensive to cut trees and it is also dangerous! There is a pdf explaining their policy on their website but I cant find it anymore

Did an arborist make these decisions for the council?
The life expectancy of a street tree depends very much on how it is managed, in the uk every council has a n arborist on staff, no so here.
The symptoms you mention are not necessarily a reason to fell a street tree, but street trees require management too much like our roads.
It is not necessarily easier to kick the issue down the road as there is an insurance liability for the tree owner, in this case the council.

baaba maal

The other way of dealing with this issue might have been to install a few more strategically placed streetlights, even cutting some boughs off any trees that would obscure the light. I would also like to know who got the value out of the timber felled- the CC or the contractor?

Marhay70

baaba maal wrote: »

The other way of dealing with this issue might have been to install a few more strategically placed streetlights, even cutting some boughs off any trees that would obscure the light. I would also like to know who got the value out of the timber felled- the CC or the contractor?

Don't want to completely derail the thread but the same thought struck me.
I regularly travel the route of the M11, currently under construction in Co. Wicklow and on several occasions have seen lorries with timber trailers carting loads of logs off site. I've also noticed loads of topsoil and bark chippings being removed.
Given that our lords and masters are happy to saddle the long suffering public with green taxes yet only a few local authorities provide composting facilities, it's just adding insult to injury if these lands, which were bought with public funds, are providing profit for private interests.

theent

To baaba malal and Marhay 7.
In fingal, the street trees are cut by County Council teams and not by contractors. If residents want the timber it is given to them. Otherwise it is shred and the mulch used for planting. In parks and estates, the job is done by contractors. The tree is immediately shredded on site and mulch reused.

theent

To oldtree from theent
My respects.
As far as I know, the people doing the job are arborists and foresters in Fingal. I met one of the persons doing the inventory and making decision. He has a degree in forestry. His boss is an arborist.
"The symptoms you mention are not necessarily a reason to fell a street tree" . This is true: you have to consider the species, age, locations and the number of previous interventions. If there is a problem you must first see if you can move the Target: Obviously in towns and suburbs this nearly impossible. Secondly you try to get rid of it: a dangerous branch can be pruned as well as branches with included bark, dangerous junction, branches with cankers...It starts to be more difficult when the tree is diseased or if it has decay, or if the tree has already pruned. I am not for torturing trees and pruning leave wounds, opening the trees to diseases.
You also have to see the location and species: If the tree is a mature Norway maple, planted in a narrow margin and the pavement starts to crack and be lifted, I think you better to fell it. This tree was planted at the wrong place. You can fix the pavement and it will be broken again few years later. Fell it and replace it by a species adapted to the location. In the same time fix the pavement (liability of the council as you justly mentioned)and improve the planting pit if necessary.
As you said councils all other the country have had court cases against them because of people tripping on broken pavement or roots. Lot of money lost which could have been used somewhere else. In that case I prefer Fingal politic than in other place where trunks of trees are sunk into tarmac which is bad to the tree and making its absorption of rain water difficult and reduce its role against flooding.

Oldtree

theent wrote: »

To oldtree from theent
My respects.
As far as I know, the people doing the job are arborists and foresters in Fingal. I met one of the persons doing the inventory and making decision. He has a degree in forestry. His boss is an arborist.
"The symptoms you mention are not necessarily a reason to fell a street tree" . This is true: you have to consider the species, age, locations and the number of previous interventions. If there is a problem you must first see if you can move the Target: Obviously in towns and suburbs this nearly impossible. Secondly you try to get rid of it: a dangerous branch can be pruned as well as branches with included bark, dangerous junction, branches with cankers...It starts to be more difficult when the tree is diseased or if it has decay, or if the tree has already pruned. I am not for torturing trees and pruning leave wounds, opening the trees to diseases.
You also have to see the location and species: If the tree is a mature Norway maple, planted in a narrow margin and the pavement starts to crack and be lifted, I think you better to fell it. This tree was planted at the wrong place. You can fix the pavement and it will be broken again few years later. Fell it and replace it by a species adapted to the location. In the same time fix the pavement (liability of the council as you justly mentioned)and improve the planting pit if necessary.
As you said councils all other the country have had court cases against them because of people tripping on broken pavement or roots. Lot of money lost which could have been used somewhere else. In that case I prefer Fingal politic than in other place where trunks of trees are sunk into tarmac which is bad to the tree and making its absorption of rain water difficult and reduce its role against flooding.

There are many reasons that a urban tree may need to be felled and as long as the assessment was made by a qualified arborist then I would be comfortable with that decision. An Urban tree must be in essence viewed as a utility tree. But it always comes back to planting the right tree in the right place. Forestry is separate discipline from arboriculture.

Yes I am aghast at what happens to urban trees here. Some of the works carried out in ignorance, are detrimental to the trees future health. There is in my eyes a dire need for an arborist on every council to manage our urban tree landscape.

theent

I agree with that. We need a better understanding of the trees and of their uses in Ireland: in urban areas but also in the countryside.
I think this is getting better. The strong reaction of people when trees are cut is a good evolution. But people has to realize that sometimes a tree must be felled. This will avoid accident that will lead to knee jerk reaction.
Better understanding, better education and better practices: we slowly getting there and in the city as in the countryside: The right tree in the right place!

Oldtree

I recently noted that instead of removing the shoots from a boiling at the base of a chestnut with a sacutures (probably an annual job much like the removal of the shoots at the base of limes in London) that council workers cut off the boiling with a chainsaw, leaving a massive wound at the base of a tree type very prone to decay adjacent to a much used public pathway. :eek:

The same mature chestnut trees had half of their crowns on one side removed to facilitate a flat development (Saturday morning job by white van man), again leaving large wounds high up on a tree type very prone to decay, allowing large avenues open for decay to further undermine large branches over the aforementioned much used public pathway. :eek:

Other mature chestnut trees nearby had also been severly lopped to facilitate flat development, again over a public walkway.

These chestnut trees are some of what is a very small number of mature trees in the centre of town. :rolleyes: beggers belief really.

theent

Where was that?

Oldtree

theent wrote: »

Where was that?

Ballinrobe, Co Mayo, but this is by no means unique from what I have seen of the treatment of urban trees here in Ireland including Dublin.