Ireland first course on Atheism to be launched in schooll

gaynorvader

smacl wrote: »

Probably better of as an unorthodox atheist, unless you believe atheism has an orthodoxy. But if then if atheism doesn't have an orthodoxy, unorthodox atheism is also wrong so we're back to plain ol' atheism. I wouldn't start adding random capitals either, as people will think you've joined a cult.

Feck it all, I'm off to join the Peoples Front of Judea.

aorthodox atheist?

wretcheddomain

gaynorvader wrote: »

aorthodox atheist?

Anaorthodox Agnostic Atheist...maybe

recedite

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Anaorthodox Agnostic Atheist..

sounds like you are choking...

Banbh

I always use 'non-religious' on forms and in conversation when I must define myself by religion. Its friendly and immediately acceptable.

I have found that calling myself 'atheist' suggests membership of a movement and with the rise of the atheist spokesman (you know who I mean) on every TV and radio programme dealing with baptism, burkas, bishops and the Constitution, I find myself out of step, again.

robindch

Banbh wrote: »

I always use 'non-religious' on forms and in conversation when I must define myself by religion. Its friendly and immediately acceptable.

"Yeah, we don't really do religion in our family." - works for me with the uninitiated.

Seems if if you mention the word atheist, then you get accused of "thinking that that dreadful Dawkins man is a pope", reply asking "well, have you ever read him or heard him speak", "No, but I know what he's like"; "You'll make a fine catholic". So, no, "non-religious" it is.

clairefontaine

recedite wrote: »

I see in this thread there are a few atheist cats up in a tree, hissing and spitting at the cat-herd below

Meanwhile in the real world, a govt. Advisory Group has reported back to Ruairi Quinn with recommendations to set up a new program to be called Education about Religion and Beliefs (ERB)
There's more on this in the "school patronage" thread.

Whether through accident or design (and I'd guess the latter) the new Atheist Ireland course seems to fit the bill quite nicely.

This has all gotten very complicated by the fact that the Constitution demands that children get religion in schools. What they need to do is ammend the constitution.

Hotblack Desiato

There is no constitutional requirement to have any religion at all in schools. Legislation requires religious education in state funded schools - of course almost all of them also instruct/indoctrinate in religion as well.

clairefontaine

ninja900 wrote: »

There is no constitutional requirement to have any religion at all in schools. Legislation requires religious education in state funded schools - of course almost all of them also instruct/indoctrinate in religion as well.

The ministers office referred to article 44.4 of the constitution in an email sent to me. That it is a right. The office also claims it is an academic subject. But for hat I gather for Alive, etc assumed belief inGod and discussions around ones relationship with Jesus doesn't sound that academic.

Hotblack Desiato

clairefontaine wrote: »

The ministers office referred to article 44.4 of the constitution in an email sent to me. That it is a right. The office also claims it is an academic subject. But for hat I gather for Alive, etc assumed belief inGod and discussions around ones relationship with Jesus doesn't sound that academic.

The constitution doesn't demand that 'children get religion in schools'. But it does prevent the state from refusing to fund a school purely on the basis of religion - the bolded bit below.

4° Legislation providing State aid for schools shall not discriminate between schools under the management of different religious denominations, nor be such as to affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school.

The last bit underlined is violated all over the country every school day. In practice, parents are forced to have their children attend religious instruction because they only have religious schools in their area and these schools often don't make any alternative supervision available, even when it's an identifiable event (e.g. a mass) not integrated throughout the school day, so Jesus stories could be 'English', etc.

clairefontaine

ninja900 wrote: »

The constitution doesn't demand that 'children get religion in schools'. But it does prevent the state from refusing to fund a school purely on the basis of religion - the bolded bit below.



The last bit underlined is violated all over the country every school day. In practice, parents are forced to have their children attend religious instruction because they only have religious schools in their area and these schools often don't make any alternative supervision available, even when it's an identifiable event (e.g. a mass) not integrated throughout the school day, so Jesus stories could be 'English', etc.

So, why did the minister for education's office say that to me in an email correondence? Obviously I can't publish the email here, but it did reference the section of the constitution.

Hotblack Desiato

Almost certainly what they meant was that 44.4 guarantees that a group which sets up a school with a particular religious ethos, can't be denied state funding on the grounds of religion.

i.e. there is a right to set up religious ethos schools

There would have been at least a few catholics in 1930s Ireland who would have denied state funding to protestant / jewish schools if they could.

robindch

Michael Nugent discusses the course content on radio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZHnBMIcOWA

robindch

In Time magazine too:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/09/30/atheism-added-to-irish-school-curriculums/

swampgas

robindch wrote: »

Michael Nugent discusses the course content on radio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZHnBMIcOWA

Good interview.

It was galling however to be reminded of our previous government's craven stupidity in introducing a blasphemy law, which has been hijacked by many Islamic states in their efforts to have "religious offence" made into an international crime. :mad:

*edit* Didn't know today was International Blasphemy Day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_Day I'll stop dragging the thread off-topic now...

Hotblack Desiato

Very hard to imagine any Irish radio station giving Michael a fair hearing, you could guarantee within two minutes some religious type would be interrupting him constantly with bull**** and then the presenter would allow the whole discussion to be sidetracked up a blind alley.