Stewart Lee, do you think he's funny?

Wibbs

Savoir.Faire wrote: »

He doesn't even have a good dick joke though.

Unlike Joyce.

du Maurier

pappyodaniel wrote: »

The point I should have elaborated on I suppose was the type of person in the crowd chuckling away at Stewart Lee's comedy whilst scanning the room and sneering at blank faces in the audience who obviously don't get the genius of Stewart Lee.

- Oh I get it, I just don't it funny. He's not my least favourite comedian by any stretch. That's vacated by Jim Davidson.

What place is occupied by Jim Davidson?

du Maurier

Wibbs wrote: »

Consider if you will the pretentious, self important and snobbish replies above. As dog owners are commonly seen to resemble their dogs, maybe a comics audience follows the same idea? I think it says as much about Lee as anything I could possibly add.

Multi-quoting is surely an indicator of pure ars*y-ness/snobbishness in itself tbh. "Oh look at me, I've encapsulated all that's wrong with the underlying statements. This thread is over".

Femme_Fatale

du Maurier wrote: »

Multi-quoting is surely an indicator of pure ars*y-ness/snobbishness in itself tbh. "Oh look at me, I've encapsulated all that's wrong with the underlying statements. This thread is over".

Is it not just responding to individual posts but doing so on one post instead of a bunch of separate posts?

mickrock

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Lee's comedy is grounded in postmodern literature. Deconstruction, intertextuality, self referentiality and meta-comedy is his shtick.

Lee's deconstruction, intertextuality, self referentiality and meta-comedy pales in comparison to that of Les Dennis.

du Maurier

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Is it not just responding to individual posts but doing so on one post instead of a bunch of separate posts?

I'd like to think it should be, but it usually carries a large degree of lordliness, encapsulating the error in their erroneous posts. Just seems a bit stuffy to me.

Blondie919

I voted yes but that's because I thought the vote was for Stewart Francis. Now he is funny. But Stewart Lee is not. Can I change my vote?

greedygoblin

Blondie919 wrote: »

I voted yes but that's because I thought the vote was for Stewart Francis. Now he is funny. But Stewart Lee is not. Can I change my vote?

My vote can cancel out yours! I voted No when I probably shouldn't have seeing as I haven't seen enough of his material to come to a fair conclusion.

krudler

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I think he's pretty sharp.

What's this "hipster" thing about in relation to anything a person doesn't like that isn't mainstream? The term has merit for some stuff, but it's become just a way to dismiss/sneer a lot of the time too, which is ironically what hipsters get accused of.

Hipsterism is starting to confuse me, if I like something popular, that's considered uncool, does that make it...cool?

20Cent

krudler wrote: »

Hipsterism is starting to confuse me, if I like something popular, that's considered uncool, does that make it...cool?

Stuart lee was a hipster before it was cool.

Mardy Bum

The video below is an excellent conversation on Stand up comedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-2rVyizLt8

BlurstMonkey

krudler wrote: »

Hipsterism is starting to confuse me, if I like something popular, that's considered uncool, does that make it...cool?

It's not a thing, it's a phantom idea. Hipster is a catch all for anyone that's young and doesn't fit the usual drag net of nerd or goth or whatever. It's half meant to be attributed to pseudo-intellectuals but there is no such thing as an "intellectual" 18 or 19 year old, meaning you can stick the label on anyone who tries to seem smart or different. No matter who they are going to be, at that age they're mostly going to have pretensions.
It's more of an insult than an actual sub culture. The whole "culture" of the thing was brought to fruition in the first by Pabst Blue Ribbon in order to get their sales up. It's all just smoke.

krudler

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

It's not a thing, it's a phantom idea. Hipster is a catch all for anyone that's young and doesn't fit the usual drag net of nerd or goth or whatever. It's half meant to be attributed to pseudo-intellectuals but there is no such thing as an "intellectual" 18 or 19 year old, meaning you can stick the label on anyone who tries to seem smart or different. No matter who they are going to be, at that age they're mostly going to have pretensions.
It's more of an insult than an actual sub culture. The whole "culture" of the thing was brought to fruition in the first by Pabst Blue Ribbon in order to get their sales up. It's all just smoke.

Awful, awful beer.

Wibbs

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Is it not just responding to individual posts but doing so on one post instead of a bunch of separate posts?

Exactly FF. Jesus I'm longwinded enough without multi posting. Otherwise I'd kill the effin servers. I'm thinking of the hamsters here.

BlurstMonkey wrote: »

It's not a thing, it's a phantom idea. Hipster is a catch all for anyone that's young and doesn't fit the usual drag net of nerd or goth or whatever. It's half meant to be attributed to pseudo-intellectuals but there is no such thing as an "intellectual" 18 or 19 year old, meaning you can stick the label on anyone who tries to seem smart or different. No matter who they are going to be, at that age they're mostly going to have pretensions.
It's more of an insult than an actual sub culture. The whole "culture" of the thing was brought to fruition in the first by Pabst Blue Ribbon in order to get their sales up. It's all just smoke.

Though we crossed swords earlier you dog.:D I agree 100% with you on this BM. It's a very lazy label in general. Though because it has legs in the culture now there are actual "hipsters" abroad. People who knowingly bind to the lazy label and act it out in a daftly stereotypical way.

20Cent wrote: »

Stuart lee was a hipster before it was cool.

Actually that's one thing I'd not accuse the chap of.

take everything

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The video below is an excellent conversation on Stand up comedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-2rVyizLt8

Whatever else is said about him, the guy is refreshingly articulate, earnest and decent.

Mardy Bum

take everything wrote: »

Whatever else is said about him, the guy is refreshingly articulate, earnest and decent.

It is an excellent conversation and he reveals a lot about his style and method.

take everything

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It is an excellent conversation and he reveals a lot about his style and method.

Love his criticism of a lot of crap shock-comedy (Frankie Boyle etc).

Edit: The "dog ****ting on the pavement" bit is a perfect depiction of the link between his own comedy and any offence caused.

krudler

Frankie Boyle is pretty awful, he has some good one liners on panel shows but as a full standup act he's woeful. I hate "I'll pick on the audience" comedy, it's a sign of a sh1te comedian. Jason Byrne etc.

Andersonisgod

I'm a fan. Very funny, sharp observations, brutally honest and hugely interesting to watch perform. Surely one of the UK's greatest ever comedians, imo at least, a comic genius.

Setun

I saw him a couple of weeks ago at the Edinburgh Fringe - he's one of the few comedians who you'll come away from their show with a few new thoughts in your head. For those open-minded enough to listen to what he says, they'll quickly realise he's repeating phrases for a reason

stretchdoe

Can be very funny and thought provoking but is often, as in the clip posted by the OP, unfunny and a pain in the hole which is, seemingly purposefully, his wont.

Earthhorse

Ah, I'm a bit a late to this thread but what the heck.

When Lee burst back onto the scene, in the late 90's, I think, he did so with two amazing sets: 90's Comedian and Stand Up Comedian I believe it was. In these, you'll find some of his best material; bits on the IRA, the Ang Lee joke and the Joe Pasquale bit. And I believe they that's where you'll find the material on which he can stake a claim to being a true innovator in comedy and a marvellous comic.

The problem comes, as with any creator (I was going to say artist but it seems that's too much of a stretch for some on this thread), when people expect you to maintain that level of brilliance throughout your career. Nobody possibly can; not Billy Connolly, not Eddie Izzard, not whoever your favourite stand up is.

And, as with all comedians, Lee developed a schtick; Connolly has his rambling stories, Izzard has his fascination with history, bad impressions and talking animals, and Lee has his endless jokes. The thing about endless jokes is that you start with a mild gag, which, through repetition loses its humour but then, through even more repetition, becomes hilarious. Think Sideshow Bob stepping on the rakes in The Simpsons. And the problem with this is that if the mild gag isn't even mildly funny to begin with it it's a very long time to go without a laugh.

So in that clip in the OP about Only Fools and Horses, I really don't think there's all that much to it. Though it doesn't go on that long and the jokes he's making about the audience are the real jokes in it (for me anyway). And I think this is sort of where Lee's critics and his fans part company. I don't find that clip all that funny simply because I just don't think the material's great whereas his critics (or at least most of the ones in this thread) don't think it's funny because they think Lee thinks he's better than everyone else.

To be honest, Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle was a bit patchy and I found the sketches in it downright woeful. There's some good material in there and I thought the episode on comedy itself was quite funny but, and I say this as a huge fan, it wasn't all that great. And his shows after the two I mentioned above, 41st Best Stand Up Ever and, er, the one after that, are very good. Just not as good. And they probably should be seen from start to finish as posting only the political correctness bit or Top Gear bit leaves out the many softer, more self-deprecating bits in it.

With all that said I'd rather listen to Lee on any topic than most modern comedians or commentators. He's a breath of fresh air and willing to say things that will alienate his audience regardless of what happens to him in the popularity contest.

Sunglasses Ron

Even if he was funny he tried to pretend he is better than OFAH writer John O'Sullivan.

As to my knowledge no great fighter has ever claimed to be better than Ali, it is default sacrilege (Tyson boasted he earned more money but he never claimed to be better). Not even a cocky ****er like Mayweather would touch it.


Therefore, wanker. Lee is an embarrassment.... bit like Lee Evans, different style of comedy but both massively popular crap.....people with the name Lee shouldn't be in comedy!

krudler

Right, so I watched one of his shows from a couple of years and as a whole there were some very very funny bits indeed. The one where he starts talking about his favourite coffee place and has a loyalty card that leads into a bigger joke. It was a great bit and does break down how silly it is that a comedian just comes on stage and goes straight into a topic with no buildup, so in that sense it was really clever. I still think he goes on too long with certain jokes but I'll check out more of his full shows as like was said short youtube clips dont have the same impact and buildup.

wp_rathead

he is brilliant imo, i totally get why some people absolutely hate him mind

Also remember he co-wrote the brilliant Jerry Springer the Opera
Here is a small documentary about it he narrates:

have tickets to him in Roisin Dubh next month- CANNOT WAIT

Cienciano

The thing is with comedians, you could start a thread about any of them, and the more popular they are, the more replies you'd get of people saying they hate them.
Personally, I don't like Lee at all. The OP's video is more cringe comedy to me. I find it embarrassing it's so bad. But the audience seem to find it hilarious, they laugh at the simplest sentence he says.

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

He's an unfunny, monotoned, ranting bore with a superiority complex and a nasty streak.
The most overrated comedian of all time by a considerable distance.

Two words: Dane Cook.
Youtube him, sell out stadiums in america and he's absolutely shíte.

Dyr

His top gear routine is worth it.

krudler

Cienciano wrote: »

Two words: Dane Cook.
Youtube him, sell out stadiums in america and he's absolutely shíte.

I thought Dane Cook's early show had it's moments, but once he got to stadium size gigs it was insufferable, women shrieking at everything he did, one of the later shows went back to a much smaller crowd and was better.

littlemac1980

I think he's very funny, and like the way he has his own distinct style, and clearly puts a lot of work into his craft. I love this clip, it took some b*lls to goto Glasgow and make this Joke.

Birneybau

Cienciano wrote: »

Two words: Dane Cook.
Youtube him, sell out stadiums in america and he's absolutely shíte.

Dane Cook, pay per view, 20 minutes.

Ash.J.Williams

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

That's because while you were sitting there waiting for the punchline to happen, it was already happening and you were it.

I couldn't have said that any better...that's it exactly!

Ash.J.Williams

I'm a big fan, i would agree that the comedy vehicle was hit and miss, but i've only seen it once and will hold off on criticism until i've seen it again..
I have to say most of the vitriol i've read regarding Lee is from people who don't get it..it's fair enough not to "get" something....but you cannot say something is sh1t unless you see where it's coming from...

for a start stop taking him at face value...he's a comic...it's all made up!!

ElvisChrist6

I do love Lee, but no matter what you think, he is one of the bravest comedians out there. He'll stick with a joke no matter what he gets from it. In one of his DVDs he stands there with a toy giraffe on his head in silence (there was a point to it) for quite a while, while only one man laughs throughout it. He won't back down even if the reaction isn't uproarious, which sometimes he doesn't seem to even want. I find him very funny otherwise though, and the condescension is all part of the routine.

stimpson

For anyone who isn't frothing at the mouth with hate for Stew, get a copy of his book, How I escaped my Certain Fate*. It's a bit of an auto biography, but he goes into obsessive detail about why things are funny and what goes on behind the scenes in the comedy circuit and the whole blasphemy episode. He isn't shy about giving his opinions on other comedians (although I'm never sure if he's being tongue in cheek or not). He changed my mind about Harry Hill, and the story he tells about Joe Pasquale ripping off Michael Redmond's (Fr. Stone from Fr. Ted) joke is an eye opener on the politics of standup.


















* Contains footnotes

Cienciano

stimpson wrote: »

For anyone who isn't frothing at the mouth with hate for Stew, get a copy of his book, How I escaped my Certain Fate*. It's a bit of an auto biography, but he goes into obsessive detail about why things are funny and what goes on behind the scenes in the comedy circuit and the whole blasphemy episode. He isn't shy about giving his opinions on other comedians (although I'm never sure if he's being tongue in cheek or not). He changed my mind about Harry Hill, and the story he tells about Joe Pasquale ripping off Michael Redmond's (Fr. Stone from Fr. Ted) joke is an eye opener on the politics of standup.


















* Contains footnotes

What did he say about harry hill?

Penn

Well I'll give it to you straight... like a pear cider that's made from 100% pears... I think he's great.

CrinkElite

wprathead wrote: »

have tickets to him in Roisin Dubh next month- CANNOT WAIT

Don't tell everyone ffs. I haven't got my ticket yet.

Penn wrote: »

Well I'll give it to you straight... like a pear cider that's made from 100% pears... I think he's great.

I think you'll find it's PEAR! two pairs of pear.

e_e

People who use the ad-hominems of "pretentious" and "hipster" just prove that they have nothing of substance to say. Especially since if any of these people actually bothered to check out how he is off stage they'd see how down to earth and open he is. He even admits to having a certain respect for the likes of Michael McIntyre and Frankie Boyle despite his stand-up, which is a more insecurely middle aged, paranoid and narcissistic version of his own personality in the first place.

Say what you want about his comedy but at least it has form, content and an underlying message to it. Something that the vast majority of blokey "blahhhhh look at me insulting a minority blah blah blah political correctness gone mad" comedians miss out on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YA5UdVhhsI

Ash.J.Williams

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Even if he was funny he tried to pretend he is better than OFAH writer John O'Sullivan.

As to my knowledge no great fighter has ever claimed to be better than Ali, it is default sacrilege (Tyson boasted he earned more money but he never claimed to be better). Not even a cocky ****er like Mayweather would touch it.


Therefore, wanker. Lee is an embarrassment.... bit like Lee Evans, different style of comedy but both massively popular crap.....people with the name Lee shouldn't be in comedy!

he didn't, if anything he paid homage to John O'sullivan for writing gags that can unite an entire nation. Taking that onboard your post is nonsense.

Real Life

CrinkElite wrote: »

Don't tell everyone ffs. I haven't got my ticket yet.

i was just thinking the same thing

stimpson

Cienciano wrote: »

What did he say about harry hill?

He did the stand up circuit with him back in the day and Lee gives him credit for his originality and creativity. Harry is very eccentric and he harks back to the complete daftness of the likes of Spike Milligan or Monty Python. Taken like that, it makes sitting down to You've been Framed with the kids less of an ordeal than it used to be.

He also gives Hill credit for inventing the callback, where an idea is introduced early in a set and reintroduced again later on to comedic effect. Anyone who has managed to sit through a whole Stewart Lee gig will see that he likes to use it himself quite a bit.

e_e

stimpson wrote: »

He also gives Hill credit for inventing the callback, where an idea is introduced early in a set and reintroduced again later on to comedic effect. Anyone who has managed to sit through a whole Stewart Lee gig will see that he likes to use it himself quite a bit.

One of the best bits in Carpet Remnant World is when a callback completely backfires on him.

take everything

stimpson wrote: »

For anyone who isn't frothing at the mouth with hate for Stew, get a copy of his book, How I escaped my Certain Fate*. It's a bit of an auto biography, but he goes into obsessive detail about why things are funny and what goes on behind the scenes in the comedy circuit and the whole blasphemy episode. He isn't shy about giving his opinions on other comedians (although I'm never sure if he's being tongue in cheek or not). He changed my mind about Harry Hill, and the story he tells about Joe Pasquale ripping off Michael Redmond's (Fr. Stone from Fr. Ted) joke is an eye opener on the politics of standup.


















* Contains footnotes

Decent read.
He's actually a very down-to-earth guy when it comes down to it.

I really love his perplexity about Joe Pasquale when telling that Michael Stone joke.

My name is URL

stimpson wrote: »

He changed my mind about Harry Hill

Finding out he was once a neurosurgeon changed my mind about him :pac:

take everything

My name is URL wrote: »

Finding out he was a fully qualified neurosurgeon changed my mind about him :pac:

Harry was/is a doctor but a neurosurgeon?
I don't think he finished his training.
A reg or SHO I would've thought.

briany

I've been following Lee's output on and off since the late 90s when he presented TMWRNJ alongside his old partner Richard Herring. It was definitely one of those sense of humour shaping shows for me with it's subversive antics broadcast at a wholly inappropriate hour (:D).

The great thing about Lee's stand up style is that he takes the time to tell a story that might not be packed chock full of gags but it usually builds to a point and you felt like you've heard a really complete thing by the end of it that isn't just a succession of one liners or observations. This isn't for everyone and Lee himself admits this and takes more pains to warn people than most comedians would. Some people call him a bit pretentious but he also seems to make more and more of his act about making fun of himself with every show he writes so he really doesn't seem to take it all too seriously.

To sum up his style I'd say it's slow, considered, a bit vulnerable, sarcastic and occasionally builds to great hilarity. The way he paces things and puts them together is very satisfying.

If you like Stewart Lee's stuff, go over and check out a comedian who influenced him with Norman Lovett's show 'Bags & Biscuits' on DVD. He's even slower and more meandering than Stewart Lee himself!

Penn

People do seem to forget that Stewart Lee is playing a character on stage. I remember a podcast he did last year with Richard Herring where they were talking about comedians going from BBC/CH4 to Sky for more money, and Lee said that even if he was offered it and wanted to take it, it'd make more sense for his character of Stewart Lee to remain at the BBC and complain about other comedians doing better than him. It's an act, a performance.

They also talk about the time Stewart Lee wanked off Richard Herring using a paper mâché puppet that Herring's grandfather made and gave to him. So he's clearly not all bad.

stimpson

stimpson wrote: »

He did the stand up circuit with him back in the day and Lee gives him credit for his originality and creativity. Harry is very eccentric and he harks back to the complete daftness of the likes of Spike Milligan or Monty Python. Taken like that, it makes sitting down to You've been Framed with the kids less of an ordeal than it used to be.

He also gives Hill credit for inventing the callback, where an idea is introduced early in a set and reintroduced again later on to comedic effect. Anyone who has managed to sit through a whole Stewart Lee gig will see that he likes to use it himself quite a bit.

Anyone interested in seeing just how much Stewart Lee owes Harry Hill should watch the latter's early stand up show on youtube. Lee is (semi) serious and has a point, whereas Hill is daft/silly, but a lot of the techniques are close to identical.

I like them both, but personally I think Harry Hill is miles ahead of anyone else out there.

stimpson

I found this last night on Lee's website - the Michael Redmond/Joe Pasquale story:

http://www.stewartlee.co.uk/press/writtenformoney/formoney.php?page=1995-12-00-joe_pasquale-sundaytimes.php

Ash.J.Williams

By the way Michael Redmond is well worth checking out!
"i rang a book shop the other day, the woman said "can i help you", i said no i'm just browsing"