How far should a Kerosene heating oil tank be situated away from the house?

Andy From Sligo

Hi there we possibly might be moving in the near future and we looked at a house for rent near us and looked round the back which had quite a bit of land at the back, but they have situated a plastic kerosene heating oil tank virtually across from the back door pretty near to the house. so you have the back door then the pavement and then the tank right close to the house, I can see why they have done it, to save pipework I suppose to the outside boiler. Next to the kitchen is a downstairs bedroom.

Now apart from the smell of kerosene around the tank, if you opened up the bedroom window you would get the smell of heating oil in the bedroom but apart from that, what if the tank caught alight? - i mean its right across from the kitchen door. Is this safe to have a oil heating tank this close to the house like this or should they be sited so many meters away from the house, is there any guidelines for things like this?

Robbie.G

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Hi there we possibly might be moving in the near future and we looked at a house for rent near us and looked round the back which had quite a bit of land at the back, but they have situated a plastic kerosene heating oil tank virtually across from the back door pretty near to the house. so you have the back door then the pavement and then the tank right close to the house, I can see why they have done it, to save pipework I suppose to the outside boiler. Next to the kitchen is a downstairs bedroom.

Now apart from the smell of kerosene around the tank, if you opened up the bedroom window you would get the smell of heating oil in the bedroom but apart from that, what if the tank caught alight? - i mean its right across from the kitchen door. Is this safe to have a oil heating tank this close to the house like this or should they be sited so many meters away from the house, is there any guidelines for things like this?

Oil tank sited no closer than 1.8mtrs of any building

scudo2

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Hi there we possibly might be moving in the near future and we looked at a house for rent near us and looked round the back which had quite a bit of land at the back, but they have situated a plastic kerosene heating oil tank virtually across from the back door pretty near to the house. so you have the back door then the pavement and then the tank right close to the house, I can see why they have done it, to save pipework I suppose to the outside boiler. Next to the kitchen is a downstairs bedroom.



Now apart from the smell of kerosene around the tank, if you opened up the bedroom window you would get the smell of heating oil in the bedroom but apart from that, what if the tank caught alight? - i mean its right across from the kitchen door. Is this safe to have a oil heating tank this close to the house like this or should they be sited so many meters away from the house, is there any guidelines for things like this?

Minimum 1,8meters from non fire fire rated structure/house
760mm from boundry.

Common sence a lot more if possible !


Details on OFTEC website or on grantengineering.ie techinical book

shane0007

Robbie.G wrote: »

Oil tank sited no closer than 1.8mtrs of any building

1.8m from a non-fire rated building.
If building is of block construction, this is a fire rated building.
1.8m from an opening within that building, i.e. window (including non-opening windows), air vents, etc.
It also needs to be 1.8m from the eaves unless fire protection is installed between the eaves & the tank, extending minimum 300mm past either side of the tank.
If against the building wall, minimum of 100mm must be allowed between the tank & the wall to allow for swelling of the tank from empty to full & also to allow for tank inspection.

Environmental protection must also be considered, i.e. distances to gulleys, bore holes/springs, hard ground that could allow spillage to run to gulleys, roads, ditches, etc. & a few others.

If the tank does meet the fire related rules, it is still advisable to install a bunded tank close to a dwelling as oil spillage rectification costs are extremely expensive. I was involved in a case a number of years ago where the house had to be demolished. The average oil spill clean up cost where only soil is affected is €12,000.

Billy Bunting

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Hi there we possibly might be moving in the near future and we looked at a house for rent near us and looked round the back which had quite a bit of land at the back, but they have situated a plastic kerosene heating oil tank virtually across from the back door pretty near to the house. so you have the back door then the pavement and then the tank right close to the house, I can see why they have done it, to save pipework I suppose to the outside boiler. Next to the kitchen is a downstairs bedroom.

Now apart from the smell of kerosene around the tank, if you opened up the bedroom window you would get the smell of heating oil in the bedroom but apart from that, what if the tank caught alight? - i mean its right across from the kitchen door. Is this safe to have a oil heating tank this close to the house like this or should they be sited so many meters away from the house, is there any guidelines for things like this?

I do hope your not "fiddling" again Andy, you know what happened last time, if you had an Oftec tech in last time you fiddled you could have asked him.

Robbie.G

shane0007 wrote: »

1.8m from a non-fire rated building.
If building is of block construction, this is a fire rated building.
1.8m from an opening within that building, i.e. window (including non-opening windows), air vents, etc.
It also needs to be 1.8m from the eaves unless fire protection is installed between the eaves & the tank, extending minimum 300mm past either side of the tank.
If against the building wall, minimum of 100mm must be allowed between the tank & the wall to allow for swelling of the tank from empty to full & also to allow for tank inspection.

Environmental protection must also be considered, i.e. distances to gulleys, bore holes/springs, hard ground that could allow spillage to run to gulleys, roads, ditches, etc. & a few others.

If the tank does meet the fire related rules, it is still advisable to install a bunded tank close to a dwelling as oil spillage rectification costs are extremely expensive. I was involved in a case a number of years ago where the house had to be demolished. The average oil spill clean up cost where only soil is affected is €12,000.

After all that its still 1.8 mtrs from a building

shane0007

Robbie.G wrote: »

After all that its still 1.8 mtrs from a building

No it's not! It's 100mm from a fire rated building.

Andy From Sligo

thanks everyone for your answers so far i suppose 1.8 meters is near enough then not too far away - yes its a block built house, maybe it will be ok then, even if on the ugly side of things, it sort of greets you as your coming out of the kitchen back door, but as long as its safe thats the main thing - thanks again for that. - if it ever needs to be moved later on does that have to be done by a qualified person even though it would have already been commissioned?

shane0007

If you are in doubt with regard to its location & safety, ask an OFTEC technician to come & inspect the installation. You will then be given a T1/133D report form advising you of any non-conforming issues & advising you of corrective remedial actions required to bring the installation to current standards.

Andy From Sligo

shane0007 wrote: »

If you are in doubt with regard to its location & safety, ask an OFTEC technician to come & inspect the installation. You will then be given a T1/133D report form advising you of any non-conforming issues & advising you of corrective remedial actions required to bring the installation to current standards.

thanks shane - I wonder in a rented house who's responsibility it would be to get in a oftec technician then to check it all? the tenant or the landlord?

Robbie.G

shane0007 wrote: »

No it's not! It's 100mm from a fire rated building.

The OP stated it was outside his back door so I was commenting on the specific site and question that was asked

scudo2

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks shane - I wonder in a rented house who's responsibility it would be to get in a oftec technician then to check it all a tenant or the landlord?

Landlord + he or she has to get it legaly serviced on an yearly basis by a registered service engineer at there own cost, not the tennents, giving a reciept and print out from a flue gas analizer.

shane0007

Robbie.G wrote: »

Oil tank sited no closer than 1.8mtrs of any building

Look I'm not getting into any more stupid arguments but you said "any building". That statement is incorrect. Outside the back door could still be 1.8m away from the back door.

If this is how Boards is going to end up with every thread & you wish to argue with every post I make, just say the word & I will of course close my account if you so wish.

Cerco

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

thanks shane - I wonder in a rented house who's responsibility it would be to get in a oftec technician then to check it all a tenant or the landlord?

In my opinion it would be up to the tenant. The reason I believe this is because the Oftec regulations, although very sensible, are not obligatory in Ireland. So in a sense they are only recommendations until they become obligatory. I expect this will happen given the RGI and REC for gas and electricity have been enacted. Registration brings standards which must be adhered to.
I believe it is only a matter of time before oil installers are required to be registered but then what happens to existing installations? In the normal course of events they will remain as is until they are replaced or upgraded.
I am open to correction on this.

scudo2

scudo2 wrote: »

Landlord + he or she has to get it legaly serviced on an yearly basis by a registered service engineer at there own cost, not the tennents, giving a reciept and print out from a flue gas analizer.

OFTEC does not legaly come in to this but landlord is legaly responcible for annual service.

OFTEC qualified is better service eng. They should know the regs.
They don't have to be regestered but should be qualified and able to show proof of same + proof of public liabilty insurance.
I'm delighted when asked for mine as it shows the costomer cares who he gets.

Robbie.G

shane0007 wrote: »

Look I'm not getting into any more stupid arguments but you said "any building". That statement is incorrect. Outside the back door could still be 1.8m away from the back door.

If this is how Boards is going to end up with every thread & you wish to argue with every post I make, just say the word & I will of course close my account if you so wish.

I couldn't be arsed to argue with you.
As I said iwas referring to the question and I said any instead of the my mistake.

gifted

Right..Last warning to ye lot...I will climb into my laptop and start knocking heads together unless all of ye stop...it's a simple question with a simple answer, lets not start fighting over it FFS..:mad:

Billy Bunting

God only knows how you guys got threw school when you get so touchy over a simple correction.

Did i spell threw right ?

shane0007

Cerco wrote: »

The reason I believe this is because the Oftec regulations, although very sensible, are not obligatory in Ireland. So in a sense they are only recommendations until they become obligatory.

There is a lot of confusion over this matter. OFTEC have no legal standing in Ireland but equally they have no legal standing in the UK either. OFTEC is only a body that has written simplified versions of the legal building regs. This covers Rep of Ireland also, covered under the Regional Variations section of their books. They are just the accepted body by authorities & industry as the body that as part of their membership you abide to work to their standards, which are that of the Building Regs. They may include a higher standard than the regs, such as remote acting fire valves, but this uses the word "should" instead of "must".

So to answer this point, Irish building regs would still cover the outlined distances, etc.

looksee

I wandered in here by chance, but now I am worried! A builder moved our kerosene tank and because of the particular circumstances placed it against the (block cavity) wall of the house, under the kitchen window (the window is very high off the ground and the tank is below the level of the window, even on a 3' stand.) The original tank split (no spillage) and the new one was put in the same place. No-one has ever commented on it being in an inappropriate place, but now I am wondering. Does the risk relate to a fire in the house, or is there some other risk of the kerosene igniting?

shane0007

looksee wrote: »

I wandered in here by chance, but now I am worried! A builder moved our kerosene tank and because of the particular circumstances placed it against the (block cavity) wall of the house, under the kitchen window (the window is very high off the ground and the tank is below the level of the window, even on a 3' stand.) The original tank split (no spillage) and the new one was put in the same place. No-one has ever commented on it being in an inappropriate place, but now I am wondering. Does the risk relate to a fire in the house, or is there some other risk of the kerosene igniting?

There is no real risk of the oil tank "self combusting". The distances are there not to protect the house from the tank but rather the other way round, the tank from the house. Risks of fires generate in houses, the flames bellow out windows, openings, etc. in search of oxygen. That flame could ignite the oil tank, thus providing an enormous amount of further fuel for the fire within the house.

The issue will be with your home insurance should there be a house fire that was exacerbated by the fuel in the oil tank. They may or may not use it as an excuse to nullify your claim or significantly reduce your claim amount.

IMHO, insurance companies will lead the building reg compliance in this country, not some long awaited building control department.

crock!

If nobody pointed it out then your boiler probably wasnt serviced correctly as a competent service engineer would have pointed. It out when inspecting tank as part of a service . fumes can come in a window and find a source of ignition. But the smell must come in on a hot day and be nasty

scudo2

looksee wrote: »

I wandered in here by chance, but now I am worried! A builder moved our kerosene tank and because of the particular circumstances placed it against the (block cavity) wall of the house, under the kitchen window (the window is very high off the ground and the tank is below the level of the window, even on a 3' stand.) The original tank split (no spillage) and the new one was put in the same place. No-one has ever commented on it being in an inappropriate place, but now I am wondering. Does the risk relate to a fire in the house, or is there some other risk of the kerosene igniting?

All New work has to conform to the regulations.
The 1.8meter distance is a minium. From any opening or part of building that can burn. ie. Window, vents, gutters and facial boards. again this is a MIN in big letters !


Common sence is a lot further for safety and senice purposes.


Common sence wins in my book.

looksee

crock! wrote: »

If nobody pointed it out then your boiler probably wasnt serviced correctly as a competent service engineer would have pointed. It out when inspecting tank as part of a service . fumes can come in a window and find a source of ignition. But the smell must come in on a hot day and be nasty

No, no smell! We recently had a new boiler installed (checked by an approved (by the suppliers) person,) a heating engineer was replacing the pipework etc, all legit contractors. The replacement tank was supplied by someone recommended by the tank suppliers. Not a word from any of them. Hard to see what more we could have done!

shane0007

looksee wrote: »

No, no smell! We recently had a new boiler installed (checked by an approved (by the suppliers) person,) a heating engineer was replacing the pipework etc, all legit contractors. The replacement tank was supplied by someone recommended by the tank suppliers. Not a word from any of them. Hard to see what more we could have done!

The homeowner/consumer should never have to do more. If somebody elects that they are a competent person, then they are electing that the are competent to carry out the installation to the current standards. If they did not know the current standards to carry out the installation to, then they are not competent. Ignorance is not an acceptable excuse.
Obviously, we cannot see the installation, but at the very least you should be able to question yourself, does a large volume of fuel sitting under a window seem safe?

You could contact your home insurance company & ask them what would be the implications in relation should there be a claim if the newly installed oil tank was installed against regs. Would you be claiming against your home insurance or fighting the installation companies insurance if they were in business?

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

The homeowner/consumer should never have to do more. If somebody elects that they are a competent person, then they are electing that the are competent to carry out the installation to the current standards. If they did not know the current standards to carry out the installation to, then they are not competent. Ignorance is not an acceptable excuse.
Obviously, we cannot see the installation, but at the very least you should be able to question yourself, does a large volume of fuel sitting under a window seem safe?

You could contact your home insurance company & ask them what would be the implications in relation should there be a claim if the newly installed oil tank was installed against regs. Would you be claiming against your home insurance or fighting the installation companies insurance if they were in business?

I Totaly agree with the above post by Shane.
You as the house holder need to follow it up if you want.








To the relavant partys I'm not trying to be funny and I Totaly respect and agree with the above views.
Ta.

Andy From Sligo

shane0007 wrote: »

...... Obviously, we cannot see the installation, but at the very least you should be able to question yourself, does a large volume of fuel sitting under a window seem safe?

That is what set off alarm bells when I see this oil tank so near to this house we looked at today, I just though god when thats full of heating oil what a fire hazard that would be! - at least if it was at the bottom of the garden and caught alight (i dunno some people smoke and throw their fag butts out in the back yard or a focused magnified bit of sun could set alight to it) and all I could think of is if thats only across from the kitchen back door thats a nuts place to put it so near to the house cause if it was full of kerosene and caught alight i would think one of these plastic tanks would go up in flames like a fireball and then catch alight to the rest of the house in no time at all!

And this tank today smelt of kerosene strongly and all around the kitchen back door area, I should imagine these plastic tanks are vented into the open air and thats where you get the smell, am surprised if you wouldnt smell it, especially because its underneath the kitchen window!

scudo2

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

That is what set off alarm bells when I see this oil tank so near to this house we looked at today, I just though god when thats full of heating oil what a fire hazard that would be! - at least if it was at the bottom of the garden and caught alight (i dunno some people smoke and throw their fag butts out in the back yard or a focused magnified bit of sun could set alight to it) and all I could think of is if thats only across from the kitchen back door thats a nuts place to put it so near to the house cause if it was full of kerosene and caught alight i would think one of these plastic tanks would go up in flames like a fireball and then catch alight to the rest of the house in no time at all!

And this tank today smelt of kerosene strongly and all around the kitchen back door area, I should imagine these plastic tanks are vented into the open air and thats where you get the smell, am surprised if you wouldnt smell it, especially because its underneath the kitchen window!

If you can smell it, move it, in my book.

Again back to the "common sence rule"

Its Up to you now Andy.

Andy From Sligo

scudo2 wrote: »

If you can smell it, move it, in my book.

Again back to the "common sence rule"

Its Up to you now Andy.

yeah I think your right the rest of the house looks decent apart from this smelly eyesore of a site oil tank opposite the kitchen door and there is a lot of land at the rear of the house to put it and it cant cost that much to get the copper pipe with white plastic covering on it and dig a trench out and stick it in there at least it will be out of the way. Its only a single pipe system and no return pipe.

Whilst up there I took a photo of the 'boiler house" and the boiler is a firebird popular 90 and the Burner is a Riello 40. The boiler looked pretty rusty, but its most probably just surface rust. But I also noticed theres no fire valve above the riello burner - is that an issue do you reckon?
Heres a picture:

shane0007

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

And this tank today smelt of kerosene strongly and all around the kitchen back door area, I should imagine these plastic tanks are vented into the open air and thats where you get the smell, am surprised if you wouldnt smell it, especially because its underneath the kitchen window!

You generally shouldn't smell kerosene around an oil tank, unless you particularly went looking for it. I would be suspicious of a smell coming from a weeping joint in or around the tank. Most oil tanks I come across have weeps on joints at the outlet isolation valves or filter connections. It's this small but continuous weep of oil that smells, & generally due to no reinforcing insert used in the soft annealed copper pipe.

shane0007

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yeah I think your right the rest of the house looks decent apart from this smelly eyesore of a site oil tank opposite the kitchen door and there is a lot of land at the rear of the house to put it and it cant cost that much to get the copper pipe with white plastic covering on it and dig a trench out and stick it in there at least it will be out of the way. Its only a single pipe system and no return pipe.

Whilst up there I took a photo of the 'boiler house" and the boiler is a firebird popular 90 and the Burner is a Riello 40. The boiler looked pretty rusty, but its most probably just surface rust. But I also noticed theres no fire valve above the riello burner - is that an issue do you reckon?
Heres a picture:


https://db.tt/YOUiZ3VV

More importantly there is no seal between the boiler & the flue. Most definitely have that looked at before the boiler was used.

There are also guidelines & regs covering the installation of oil supply pipes. As previously advised, get a decent OFTEC technician to inspect & carry out the works & have them sign off on the installation.