DI Canio sacked.

Paully D

messinkiapina wrote: »

Ah feck it anyway. I was thinking Sunderland were exactly what Liverpool needed to get back on track next weekend. They'll probably have a new lease of life now.

You can't polish a turd. Liverpool will still win.

COYVB

Could be worse for Sunderland fans really... in fact it probably will if McLeish gets the job

dubrov

COYVB wrote: »

Could be worse for Sunderland fans really... in fact it probably will if McLeish gets the job

+1.

McLeish really is every fans nightmare.

For some reason, chairmen seem to like him though

Paully D

Gareth McAuley ‏@G23mcauley 27m
Be a few lads throwing a party tonight!!!

Clearly spoke to a few of our lads yesterday before or after the game judging by the above.

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

You can't polish a turd. Liverpool will still win.

If Liverpool play like they did yesterday Sunderland won't have much trouble

GTR63

Paully D wrote: »

Clearly spoke to a few of our lads yesterday before or after the game judging by the above.

I am far from a Di Canio fan but I hate reading stuff like that.

Paully D

The Mirror reporting two players stood up to Di Canio last week after he called their professionalism into account. I would presume O'Shea was one of them, and to be fair I think he knows a good manager when he sees one.

@dimarzio
Now @SAFCofficial will choose the new manager: di Matteo has doubts and the club wants an english manager that knows well premier league

Same source that broke the Sky Italia story earlier. No surprise that Di Matteo has doubts, but if we want to appoint an English manager that knows the Premier League, well that leaves us with few options and even less good options.

It's vitally important that the club get this appointment right but I have little confidence that they will.

Paully D

GTR63 wrote: »

I am far from a Di Canio fan but I hate reading stuff like that.

Former reserve/the odd first team squad player who left this summer and is still friends with many of the players:

@Adam_Reed4
I know there is a sigh of relief for many people at Sunderland Di Canio has been giving the chop

And the Mirror article about Di Canio being turned on by two ''old heads'' (O'Shea and Brown I'd presume):

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sunderland-sack-paolo-di-canio-2294089?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Paolo Di Canio was last night sacked by Sunderland after a major bust-up involving senior players.

The Italian held a fiery training ground inquest with his squad after the 3-0 defeat to West Brom and the disastrous fall-out ended his reign at the Stadium of Light. With owner Ellis Short taking fright at the club’s disastrous early season form, Di Canio and his squad held an inquest yesterday at the Academy of Light.

But Di Canio found himself turned on by at least two old heads who hammered home some tough criticism of his methods, especially his man-management.

He was told they were sick of his constant criticism, especially in public.

Players were particularly upset to have their effort, professionalism and commitment questioned by their manager.

The brutal exchange and vocal dissent proved to be the last straw in Di Canio’s controversial reign at the Stadium of Light. Roberto Di Matteo is among the early contenders to succeed him.


Di Canio admitted he feared the worst on Saturday night after winning just one point in five league games.

A bizarre showdown with Sunderland fans on the pitch at West Brom on Saturday saw the Italian telling them to keep their chins up, but he faced a barrage of abuse.

Di Canio now fears he is finished as a top-flight manager, admitting the gamble Sunderland took on his slim credentials might be his only crack at a top job.

Sunderland face Liverpool and Manchester United next in the league, leaving little hope of a revival ahead whoever is in charge.

Di Canio, who was allowed to bring in 14 new players in the summer, said after the West Brom defeat: “The team, not intentionally, have not gelled. It is obvious one day if we keep going lose, lose, lose there will be natural consequences, not only for Paolo di Canio.

“I don’t think they will want to keep Paolo di Canio, they will probably want to change.”

Sunderland said in a statement last night: “Kevin Ball will take charge of the squad ahead of Tuesday night’s Capital One Cup game against Peterborough United and an announcement will be made in due course regarding a permanent successor.”

SickBoy

Paully D wrote: »

You can't polish a turd. Liverpool will still win.

Actually you can

Corholio

Certainly not a Di Canio fan but it makes a mockery of the nonsense a lot of the clubs come out with like 'building for the future'. Also makes the chairman look ridiculous in both the initial appointment as they knew the type of manager he was, and also letting him bring in 14 players. I think it sums up a lot of modern football when a lot of fans hardly blink an eye and think it's the 'right decision' when a manager is sacked after a few games

Rikand

none of this would ever have happened if Quinn was still running the show there

thebaz

Paully D wrote: »

Clearly spoke to a few of our lads yesterday before or after the game judging by the above.

I liked di Canio , it was the players who let him down - he was right ; these are the same players who will probably go off tonight celebrating , wasting obscene amounts of money at the local casino , then hungover tomorrow belittling di Canio - players should stand up and be counted more , rather than wasting time & money in deluxe hotels and casinos, and then doing feck all on the pitch. I'll miss you Paulo.

Paully D

thebaz wrote: »

I liked di Canio , it was the players who let him down - he was right ; these are the same players who will probably go off tonight celebrating , wasting obscene amounts of money at the local casino , then hungover tomorrow belittling di Canio - players should stand up and be counted more , rather than wasting time & money in deluxe hotels and casinos, and then doing feck all on the pitch. I'll miss you Paulo.

I loved the way he completely cast aside the wasters like Bardsley and Bramble as they had took the piss out of the club for too long, but I think a balance needs to be struck in terms of the other stuff.

As I said, no problem with what he did to the wasters and I'm on record on here as saying I was a fan of it, but you can't hammer players like John O'Shea who has been a consummate professional throughout his career and one of the best players during Di Canio's short reign, just because he made an (albeit costly) error in a game.

Cabral played really well on his debut but was cast aside seemingly because Di Canio fell out with him over something or other, Ji was humiliated in front of 25,000 in a cup game by being taken off 90 seconds into the second half and lost all confidence, O'Shea criticized in public for making a mistake, Brown questioned over his injury problems despite him doing everything within his power to get fit. Those are the sort of things which get players sticking together against the manager destroy dressing rooms.

Read about his ''Bomb Squad'' at Swindon:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2305127/Dont-fall-Paolo-Di-Canio-youll-end-Bomb-Squad-theres-way-there.html

A balance needs to be struck. O'Neill was too far the other way as he let players do what they like and take the piss completely, whereas Di Canio was outrageously strict. It's all about finding that middle ground.

LeBash

Corholio wrote: »

Certainly not a Di Canio fan but it makes a mockery of the nonsense a lot of the clubs come out with like 'building for the future'. Also makes the chairman look ridiculous in both the initial appointment as they knew the type of manager he was, and also letting him bring in 14 players. I think it sums up a lot of modern football when a lot of fans hardly blink an eye and think it's the 'right decision' when a manager is sacked after a few games

By the sounds of it the board backed the players over the manager. I dont tgink anyone was planning on a massive fallout with senior players. Although it was always on the cards.

By allowing him bring in 14 players showed they reckoned hed be there at the end of the season.

dd972

Tony Pulis might be a good choice. SAFC will never be as big as the North West clubs or the big three London teams in terms of attracting top players to live in the area. Getting rid of Martin O'Neill might not have been as wise as they thought.

thebaz

Paully D wrote: »

but you can't hammer players like John O'Shea who has been a consummate professional throughout his career and one of the best players during Di Canio's short reign, just because he made an (albeit costly) error in a game.

havn't seen much of O'Shea for Sundeland , seams a nice guy and all that , but for the talent he had as a youngster , he would not be my benchmark for a consummate pro; as I said nice guy , but for his talent , a very very average international in my mind , maybe he plays great for Sunderland , but i would say very average for Ireland.

Paully D

dd972 wrote: »

Tony Pulis might be a good choice. SAFC will never be as big as the North West clubs or the big three London teams in terms of attracting top players to live in the area. Getting rid of Martin O'Neill might not have been as wise as they thought.

Well if he hadn't been sacked, we'd be playing Championship football this season without question. We'd have been lucky to pick up another point with him in charge.

thebaz

might be a little too similar to Paulo , but if I was a Sunderland fan , Gus Poyet would be my choice , not as emotional as Paulo , but did well at Brighton and his previous assitant roles.

jamaamaj

I wonder what the odds are on Gus Poyet getting the job?
Can't see any odds yeah on any bookies for next manager.
Folks who are saying Mcleish must be kidding.

Paully D

thebaz wrote: »

might be a little too similar to Paulo , but if I was a Sunderland fan , Gus Poyet would be my choice , not as emotional as Paulo , but did well at Brighton and his previous assitant roles.

I wouldn't want him. He's someone I just can't warm to and while that would admittedly change if we started winning matches, by all means he's reported to be very similar to Di Canio in terms of his approach.

Di Matteo is my choice but as I said earlier in the thread, I think he would probably (rightly) see himself as better than the job.

kryogen

What was the point in hiring him?

kryogen

thebaz wrote: »

havn't seen much of O'Shea for Sundeland , seams a nice guy and all that , but for the talent he had as a youngster , he would not be my benchmark for a consummate pro; as I said nice guy , but for his talent , a very very average international in my mind , maybe he plays great for Sunderland , but i would say very average for Ireland.

What is this nonsense?

He is a model pro, it has been commented on by managers and players alike throughout his career, that's a separate issue to whether or not you think he is any good as a footballer

CSF

kryogen wrote: »

What was the point in hiring him?

They probably saved their Premier League status in doing so, I imagine the situation behind the scenes became too much to handle though. I see him failing as a manager for the same reasons Keane has to date.

DeanAustin

Corholio wrote: »

Certainly not a Di Canio fan but it makes a mockery of the nonsense a lot of the clubs come out with like 'building for the future'. Also makes the chairman look ridiculous in both the initial appointment as they knew the type of manager he was, and also letting him bring in 14 players. I think it sums up a lot of modern football when a lot of fans hardly blink an eye and think it's the 'right decision' when a manager is sacked after a few games

While generally I would agree with you, this is the right decision. The man is too volatile to be a successful manager and too volatile to manage the different personalities he will inevitably deal with at any club. Allied to his inexperience, he was going to bring Sunderland down.

Usually I'm in favour of giving managers time but sometimes, when you have the wrong man, giving him time is the wrong thing to do. Clearly, that was the case here and Short is to be applauded for sacking him but should have serious questions asked about him appointing Di Canio in the first place.

SlickRic

the job has Pulis written all over it.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

the job has Pulis written all over it.

Similar type jersey to Stoke!

I'd say he's way down the list for Sunderland fans. They'd be solid in the league but shocking to watch

SlickRic

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd say he's way down the list for Sunderland fans.

i'd say that's true.

but the board may well see a man who helped turn a club going nowhere, into an established Premier League club.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

i'd say that's true.

but the board may well see a man who helped turn a club going nowhere, into an established Premier League club.

Perhaps.

Sunderland for me should be a mid table team or better not farting about near the bottom of the league. They have great support, not sure what their revenue is like mind, but they are serious under achievers imo.

It's all about staying up these days as the money in the league is so insane so maybe a solid manager like Pulis would be a safer bet.

If I was a Sunderland fan I'd like a younger hungry manager. Di Matteo would be ideal. Poyet maybe too, he'd probably be more risky.

shamrock55

Does anyone think his actions after the west brom game were a bit strange, the way he went over to the sunderland fans at the end, making gestures to the fans to keep the head up, shrugging his shoulders and so on, i found it very strange i dont think i have ever seen a manager acting like that, i just dont think he is right mentaly for a managers job in the pl, andi think those weord actions at the end of that game combined with him asking to be sent off last wk was the final nail

TheDoc

Nice payout for me this morning, had him first to go this season, and made my bet before the end of last season.

I've no idea what anyone expected other then total disaster, and for the club to allow him essentially re-face the squad to sack him this quickly shows they are just admitting to a pretty horrible mistake.

Sunderland in big trouble now, with a squad of players who came under the pretence Di Canio would be manager, and now up in the air. Unfortunately my bet for their relegation is looking more likely

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

Nice payout for me this morning

and for Dunphy too... he predicted it from the start of the season

So if Pulis gets the job I'll have to start disliking Sunderland too?

the untitled user

Pulis would be a terrible option for Sunderland in the long run. He's worse than MON for overspending on average British players and his style of football is even more negative to boot.

Sunderland have tried that model before under Keane and MON and it failed miserably. Would have thought Short would run a mile from a manager like Pulis...

kryogen

CSF wrote: »

They probably saved their Premier League status in doing so, I imagine the situation behind the scenes became too much to handle though. I see him failing as a manager for the same reasons Keane has to date.

While I can see why people make the comparison to Keane I don't think it is completely accurate, Di Canio is far more volatile etc then Keane seems to be, more extreme in his treatment of players. Plus, Keane actually won something

Both men need to work on the man management if they are to succeed though, I take the point that the impact Di Canio made probably had a big say on them staying up though

thebaz

kryogen wrote: »

What is this nonsense?

He is a model pro, it has been commented on by managers and players alike throughout his career, that's a separate issue to whether or not you think he is any good as a footballer

should a model pro , not fulfill all his potential - in my book , yes , in your book it is nonsense , O'Shea has been nothing more than very average footballer , lots of talent and a nice guy - but I like winners as my sporting heroes.

DeanAustin

thebaz wrote: »

should a model pro , not fulfill all his potential - in my book , yes , in your book it is nonsense , O'Shea has been nothing more than very average footballer , lots of talent and a nice guy - but I like winners as my sporting heroes.

John O'Shea has:

5 Premier League Titles
1 FA Cup
3 League Cups
1 Champions League
1 World Club Cup
1 UEFA Under 17 Championship

Are you for real?

everdead.ie

Holloway to go next please!

thebaz

DeanAustin wrote: »

John O'Shea has:

5 Premier League Titles
1 FA Cup
3 League Cups
1 Champions League
1 World Club Cup
1 UEFA Under 17 Championship

Are you for real?

I said he had loads of talents , what has he won recently ?

to me just another one of the under achieving Irish - think he could have achieved a lot more, for all the talent he had.

DeanAustin

thebaz wrote: »

I said he had loads of talents , what has he won recently ?

to me just another one of the under achieving Irish - think he could have achieved a lot more, for all the talent he had.

So who would your sporting heroes be?

COYVB

thebaz wrote: »

think he could have achieved a lot more, for all the talent he had.

Jesus, there's probably only a handful of players globally in his generation who have achieved as much as him... were you expecting a Messi-esque career?

kryogen

thebaz wrote: »

should a model pro , not fulfill all his potential - in my book , yes , in your book it is nonsense , O'Shea has been nothing more than very average footballer , lots of talent and a nice guy - but I like winners as my sporting heroes.

That doesn't really make a difference though, nobody is asking you about what you want from your sporting "heroes".

O Shea has been a model pro all his career, has worked hard, done his job and always did what was best for the team. He is by all accounts a good trainer and is a good influence on younger players. He never speaks bad of anybody in the press or does anything to damage his clubs reputation.

He is a model pro

As for your winners thing, that's just stupid. The man has medals coming out his ears!

kryogen

thebaz wrote: »

I said he had loads of talents , what has he won recently ?

to me just another one of the under achieving Irish - think he could have achieved a lot more, for all the talent he had.

Is it possible you over estimate how much talent he had as a youngster then? Maybe you are projecting.

bohsfan

thebaz wrote: »

to me just another one of the under achieving Irish - think he could have achieved a lot more, for all the talent he had.

If anything, John O'Shea overachieved in his career. But that's just my opinion!

thebaz

kryogen wrote: »

Is it possible you over estimate how much talent he had as a youngster then? Maybe you are projecting.

most of what he has won was when he was in that great Man United team , when I certainly would have had him more as a squad player , rather than one of the key players - giggs, vidic, rooney, keane, scholes, cantona, ronaldo - get me .

Think he has been very average for Ireland , say compared to Richard Dunne , just think he has been very average for the past 5 years . thats my opinion , nothing more.

carlop

kryogen wrote: »

That doesn't really make a difference though, nobody is asking you about what you want from your sporting "heroes".

O Shea has been a model pro all his career, has worked hard, done his job and always did what was best for the team. He is by all accounts a good trainer and is a good influence on younger players. He never speaks bad of anybody in the press or does anything to damage his clubs reputation.

He is a model pro

As for your winners thing, that's just stupid. The man has medals coming out his ears!

I might be wrong here Baz, but I get the impression you are referring more to his mentality.

O'Shea is certainly a model pro and comes across as a really sounds lad, but I think this held him back a little. His concentration has been known to dip at times, and he certainly doesn't appear to have a Roy Keane win-at-all-costs approach to the game. Increasingly, most players don't.

This is what I think will prevent Di Canio from ever succeeding at the top level. For Di Canio, football is everything. He brings that deranged Ultras passion to the game, and expects everybody else to do the same.

Di Canio coaching a team of Di Canios, Roy Keanes or John Terrys would be a huge success. The problem is that I don't think that many top-flight players care as much as he does, which is understandable, and so are not going to adjust to his boot camp regime.

At the lower levels it might be a different story, as players are a mix of young lads desperately trying to work there way up in the game and journeyman pros who can't afford to get on a manager's wrongside, as they may not find another club and have a very limited career span.

kryogen

thebaz wrote: »

most of what he has won was when he was in that great Man United team , when I certainly would have had him more as a squad player , rather than one of the key players - giggs, vidic, rooney, keane, scholes, cantona, ronaldo - get me .

Think he has been very average for Ireland , say compared to Richard Dunne , just think he has been very average for the past 5 years . thats my opinion , nothing more.

He played an awful lot of games for United, was a key member of the playing squad and players like him, who can do a job, wherever the manager asks him to play and doesn't complain or cause trouble in the dressing room are so vital to successful teams its not funny.

Veered way off track regardless tbh, there is nothing to suggest O Shea has ever been anything but a model pro.

thebaz

carlop wrote: »

For Di Canio, football is everything. He brings that deranged Ultras passion to the game, and expects everybody else to do the same.

Di Canio coaching a team of Di Canios, Roy Keanes or John Terrys would be a huge success. The problem is that I don't think that many top-flight players care as much as he does, which is understandable, and so are not going to adjust to his boot camp regime.

good point , someone asked me earlier who were my sporting heroes - to me they are athletes who utilise ther ability , however limited , to the maximum - Roy Keane is an obvious example , but players like Kevin Moran , Andy townend were the ones that made me so proud to be an Irish supporters . It is probably the lack of this deranged desire to win why Ireland and England struggle so badly internationally , when some of the modern pros seam happier wasting grotesque amount of monies in casino's than giving 100% on the pitch (I know thats not o'Shea thing)

TINA1984

JOS is one of those players who isn't quite good enough anymore and needs to be replaced by any incoming Sunderland manager. The guy might have some medals and a decent CV but that's behind him at this stage. Its clear from some of his dire performances last season, including a starring role in 2 6-1 wallopings for club & country that he isn't a capable too level CB anymore.

Paully D

I disagree entirely with those saying John O'Shea isn't good enough any more, but that said there's quite a few Sunderland fans who don't rate him also.

When he first arrived at the club he was played as a right back and I was thinking to myself that Fergie has had our pants down in selling him, but when he was moved to his proper position of center back his performances improved a lot. His leadership is excellent and by all accounts coming out of the Sunderland dressing room he's a great influence on the younger lads and his peers. You simply don't stay at a club like Manchester United for 10 years and average around 40 appearances a season if you don't have something about you.

He was never a pacey player and his strength has always been in his ability to read the game. He reminds me a lot of Steve Bould, who I would rate as one of our best ever defenders (even though he was only at the club a year) who was immense at the grand old age of 37 and helped us finish 7th in the league.

Put it this way, if I was an incoming manager he's a player I would want on my side and one of the last things I would be looking to change.

Referencing his part in 6-1 defeats is very strange, Manchester United lost 6-1 to Manchester City but that doesn't mean every one of the players who played in that game wouldn't improve our first 11.

We don't need him to be a top level center back. We need him to be mid-table standard, and he certainly is still that IMO.

Paully D

His position had become completely untenable, according to the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/sunderland/10328138/Paolo-Di-Canio-sacked-as-Sunderland-manager-after-massive-player-rebellion-undermined-his-authority.html

Telegraph Sport has been given details of Di Canio's dramatic demise, after the Italian completely lost the support of his first team squad after constantly criticising them.

Di Canio has allegedly belittled his players regularly using insulting language, and questioned their professionalism and lifestyles.

That prompted a delegation of senior players to visit chief executive Margaret Byrne and director of football Roberto De Fanti on Sunday.

At a meeting they forcefully relayed their concerns about Di Canio’s management style, accused him of behaving like a dictator and revealed he had lost the dressing room to such an extent that certain individuals were so upset they were going to refuse to play for him again.

At the end of the meeting, the players were reassured their grievances were reasonable and their concerns understood. They were then told Di Canio was going to be removed from power, as he had also lost the support of the board following a run of just two wins from his 12 league games in charge.

The final incendiary catalyst for Di Canio’s sacking came on Saturday night when who was involved in a furious row with his players in the aftermath of their 3-0 defeat at West Bromwich Albion.

Having incensed many supporters with his chin-up gesture after the final whistle at The Hawthorns, Di Canio marched into the away dressing room and launched in to an all-too-regular verbal attack on his players.

The stunned players were subject to an explosion of rage from Di Canio as he began an assault on former club captain Lee Cattermole, blaming him for West Brom’s third goal.

Cattermole, who had come on as a substitute midway through the second half, asked why he was being picked out for blame for the defeat and was quickly backed by team-mates.

What followed has been described by one witness as “all hell breaking loose” as several players went nose to nose with Di Canio and refused to back down when he challenged them.

Significantly, this did not just include players Di Canio had inherited like Cattermole and Carlos Cuellar, but also several he had brought to the club over the summer.

Interestingly, one of the players who felt the most aggrieved about the way he had been treated was Italian international winger Emanuele Giaccherini, who had been hauled off at half-time against WBA. The former Juventus winger was one of Sunderland’s star signings, but felt he had no support or received any sort of encouragement from Di Canio.

The row was brought to a tense conclusion when one player commented: “All you have done since you got here is criticise us and the old manager [Martin O’Neill]. The difference is we liked him and would run through walls for him. Nobody likes you here. Nobody wants you here.”

As well as alienating his players, Telegraph Sport understands Di Canio was also feared by staff members at the training ground after a series of arguments and dressing downs.

He had recently banned any staff member other than coaches talking to the players and ordered everyone out of the canteen when the first team squad were in there at meal time.

Sounds like the players had put up with so much but understandably finally cracked. When our best player feels he doesn't have support of the manager it's not a good sign.