PhD/GEM combination

dropping_bombs

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question; but I'll go for it anyway.

Does anybody know if a medical school in Ireland would offer a joint PhD-medical training programme like they do in the US? I can't find much information from Google so I was hoping you all could help! I know NUIG have an undergrad 8 year course during which you undergo PhD training as well as the normal medial degree but I'm not sure if I really want to spend another 8 years in college after a BSc. and an MSc.

2Scoops

None that I know of in this country, though I heard once UL might offer it on a case-by-case basis. But I think it's incredibly foolish to do both, especially if you will be paying fees throughout - it's complete exploitation. Most PhDs in the real world are funded, albeit modestly. If you pay for one, you are a mug. And if you get a medical degree first, then they will pay you way over the odds to get a mickey mouse PhD in your specialist training.

dropping_bombs

Thanks for the reply. Just to clear up however, I've no interest in funding my own PhD, like you said that's a black hole for money. I'm more interested in getting funding for a PhD part way through my course and doing them side by side. Also I'd be interested in an academic PhD not some social meta-analysis of patients in a specialty. For example in the field I'm currently studying most medical PhDs are basic science PhDs with the goal of translation to the clinic from the bench. That's what I want to get into

2Scoops

Then I'd still definitely do it after medical school. A PhD earned as a med student will not count towards training schemes and will be done at a tiny fraction of the salary you will get after graduating. Plus, you may find the bench-to-bedside opportunities in Ireland to be quite poor and you might just want to be a doctor without research commitments. If you're more into research than medical practice, then I'd advise you to think long and hard about even doing a medical degree - it isn't much fun if you want to be a scientist. It sounds like you are a bit too enamoured with the idea of being a clinician scientist than the practicalities, to be honest.

wehec

There is only at present the 8 year one in NUIG. Why would you bother doing a medical degree, consisting of tonnes of clinical work, if you want to be a researcher? Would you not just do a PhD now instead of doing medicine first?

dropping_bombs

Because basically, I've always wanted to be a doctor. Also I'm very interested in translational research, and most of this kind of work is done by clinical researchers.


Side note: If I were to pick either a PhD or a medical degree, it'd be the medical degree. I may not have worded myself correctly in my other comments. Also don't most top consultants have PhDs anyway?

LemonWorld

If being a doctor is really what you want to do, then I'd recommend just going ahead and trying to get onto a GEM programme. You'll be done in 4 years, and once you're done you'll be earning and can use any further study you do to count towards your specialist training.

To be quite frank, your posts seem to suggest you're a bit too preoccupied with having the right letters after your name, as opposed to working as a clinical doctor.

If you want to be a researcher, do the PhD. If you want to be a doctor, start your medical degree and get developing your core clinical knowledge and skills now. Do summer research projects or electives to satisfy your appetite for clinical research - they're great for building your portfolio and making contacts.

You've already got a BSc and MSc, so most people will recognise you've got a good base in science and research anyway. For the amount of extra work you'd have to put in, an extra PhD really isn't going to add that much to your CV.

dublindoctor

It is at each med schools discretion. I know UL do have a situation in place where they can offer it as my friend there wanted to do this and was able to, however decided to not pursue it after and just stuck with Med.

Like what was said, I think it would be better to go through Med school first for alot of reasons, mainly because by the end of med school you will have more of an idea of an area of medicine you would like to go into and it would obviously be better to have you research done in that field too. Also MD's generally take about 2 years and are fairly easy and really well paid in comparison to a normal 4year PhD.

And the cost of med school is too great to take a change of failing exams due to research, paper, conference, thesis commitments you would have!

Just my opinion though!

letsdothis

UL do this as a two year option between years 2 and 3

beardedmaster

Where did you read that, letsdothis?

letsdothis

beardedmaster wrote: »

Where did you read that, letsdothis?

Didn't read it. Came up at the UL open evening last night. The head of the medical school Prof Larvin said it and also that there's currently only one student doing it.

beardedmaster

Ah, interesting. Thanks!

matc66

I don't have an answer for the OP but I think it is a fantastic idea. Read any editorial about medical research and they all say the same, we need more clinicians with research training.
I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more with most of the replies saying the OP is looking for letters after his name, translational medicine is very much where it is at and the job at the end of the day can be a very satisfying mix of clinical and lab work.

Going forward university affiliated hospitals will hopefully have jobs with dedicated and protected lab time for clinician scientists. Currently I do 2 days clinical with 3 days in the lab and it's the most satisfying professional year I've had yet. I just wish it could continue.

More power to you dropping_bombs

2Scoops

matc66 wrote: »

Currently I do 2 days clinical with 3 days in the lab and it's the most satisfying professional year I've had yet. I just wish it could continue.

No one is saying that clinical research is meaningless or ego-driven, just that it makes far more sense to do it after you graduate from medicine (as you appear to be doing) rather than try do both together.

matc66

I don't agree, after you graduate you need to focus on your future career and time is very tight. I think during your medical training an extra few years gaining a research foundation is hugely valuable and will progress your career no end.
Any candidate for a consultant post with a PhD is a shoe-in.
http://www.nationalchildrensresearchcentre.ie/grants/mdclinical-phdmsc/

2Scoops

matc66 wrote: »

I don't agree, after you graduate you need to focus on your future career and time is very tight. I think during your medical training an extra few years gaining a research foundation is hugely valuable and will progress your career no end.
Any candidate for a consultant post with a PhD is a shoe-in.
http://www.nationalchildrensresearchcentre.ie/grants/mdclinical-phdmsc/

Taking years out before graduating, paying or getting a tiny stipend to do a PhD on research that will be a decade old before you're within an arse's roar of consultancy is not smart. Getting the med degree first, then accessing the generous funding for clinical research when also having the clinical experience to really integrate it is a better idea. A PhD from before you finish med school will not advance your career half as much as you think and certainly wouldn't make you a shoo-in for a consultantcy post. I note your link contains funding opportunities only for people who are already medically qualified.

matc66

I just think it is much easier to do this earlier in life before marriage/kids comes along. Once you're in medicine research in Ireland is generally speaking done on your own time, which you tend it have less of as you get older.