HAS THE TIME COME TO SPLIT DUBLIN GAA??

finky1

dublin are playing at home all the time very unfair on all other teams

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

freddiek wrote: »

Dublin have won 2 of the last 3 AI and will probably win 3 of the next 4. They are dominating at minor and U-21 level also

but in the last 33 years, they have just won 4.
In 2011 and 2013, Dublin won the final by 1 point. Its not like won they each championship with ease.
Between 2004 and 2009, Kerry won 4 all irelands out of the 6 years. Why wasnt there a call to split kerry?

freddiek wrote: »

Currently, Dublin players get to play every match in the AI Championship at home. In Dublin. In front of their own supporters who have their own private terrace. The Hill 16 element is less important but is indicative of how reverentially Dublin is treated by the GAA

Having all their games at Croke Park makes the most money for the GAA.

freddiek wrote: »

We have heard countless tales of inter-county standard players being forced to emigrate to look for work. So they are unavailable to their counties. Have u ever heard of a Dublin player having to emigrate?? No, me neither...

quick google got me that
http://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/conlon-hails-vins-before-emigrating-to-australia-27990129.html

freddiek wrote: »

So I say to the GAA, fairness must come before commerce. Dublin's status as the Association's cash cow cannot blind the GAA to reality.

so its fair to split a county in 2, because it won 2 of the last 3 all irelands?
If Mayo won the last 2 finals would you feel the same way about Mayo?

For the record, I'm from Roscommon.

mickyellow

Based on the squad on Sunday the Northside vs Southside squads would be as follows:

Northside:
Stephen Cluxton Goalkeeper Parnells
Philip McMahon Right Corner Back Ballymun Kickhams
Jonny Cooper Left Corner Back Na Fianna
James McCarthy Right Half Back Ballymun Kickhams
Ger Brennan Centre Back St Vincent's
Jack McCaffrey Left Half Back Clontarf
Paul Flynn Right Half Forward Fingallians
Ciarán Kilkenny Centre Forward Castleknock
Diarmuid Connolly Left Half Forward St Vincent's
Paddy Andrews Full Forward St. Brigids
Bernard Brogan Left Corner Forward St Oliver Plunkett's-ER
Bryan Cullen Substitute Skerries Harps
Darren Daly Substitute Fingal Ravens
Dean Rock Substitute Ballymun Kickhams


Southside

Rory O'Carroll Full Back Kilmacud Crokes
Michael Darragh MacAuley Midfield Ballyboden St. Enda's
Cian O'Sullivan Midfield Kilmacud Crokes
Paul Mannion Right Corner Forward Kilmacud Crokes
Denis Bastick Substitute Templeogue Synge Street
Michael Fitzsimons Substitute Cuala
Kevin McManamon Substitute St Jude's
Kevin Nolan Substitute Kilmacud Crokes
Eoghan O'Gara Substitute Templeogue Synge Street

tritium

Every so often an exceptionally good team will come along. Kerry had that in recent years and before, Tyrone too. It takes a lot of work to get to that level though and in getting there you should be dominating your province along the way (Ulster is a bit of an exception here). Eventually it becomes someone else turn to dominate and the cycle moves on. No one seemed to worry about Dublin's size back when Sean boylan was leading Meath to Leinster dominance. Thanks to the excesses of the boom most Leinster counties now actually have a bigger population pool to work with. But now that Dublin have a team that might, just might, become an exceptional and dominant team the problem is suddenly Dublin's size....

Seriously, change the record!

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

tritium wrote: »

Every so often an exceptionally good team will come along. Kerry had that in recent years and before, Tyrone too. It takes a lot of work to get to that level though and in getting there you should be dominating your province along the way (Ulster is a bit of an exception here). Eventually it becomes someone else turn to dominate and the cycle moves on. No one seemed to worry about Dublin's size back when Sean boylan was leading Meath to Leinster dominance. Thanks to the excesses of the boom most Leinster counties now actually have a bigger population pool to work with. But now that Dublin have a team that might, just might, become an exceptional and dominant team the problem is suddenly Dublin's size....

Seriously, change the record!

nail on the head.

iDave

Since the Emergency Dublin haven't really made use of the population advantage. In that period how many have they won? Less than 10 I would think. Dublins Leinster dominance coincided with a dramatic drop off in performance levels in Meath and with no other county having any tradition apart from maybe Offaly of putting it up to them on a regular basis the inevitable has happened.
The DCB has put in a lot of excellent work in improving standards in the capital and are rightly reaping the reward in both codes. They are the example to follow, not something to be destroyed.
Even Mayo showed on Sunday that their personal terrace doesn't have to be that way if county boards don't hand allocations to them.
I expect this generation to win 2 or 3 more AIs and continue to control Leinster. A new force is never far from rising. Every decade since the 80s has seen counties get their act together (briefly) and produce AI winning teams. Meath, Cork, Donegal, Derry, Galway, Armagh. Tyrone. Kerry haven't gone anywhere btw.

Rightwing

This is as much an economic argument as a sport one. Govt policy is warped, most of the IDA jobs are going to the Dublin region, and there's emigration for rural ireland.

robbiezero

Would see no reason to split them up. No offence to Dublin, but I think the Tyrone,Kerry sides of the last decade were better teams. Dublin may win a good few All-Irelands in the next few years, but if so that will have a lot to do with the state of other teams as much as Dublin being too strong.

Kerry need to rebuild, Tyrone too. Will we see the Donegal of 2012 again, Will a new manager get a tune out of Cork, likewise Kildare, how will Mayo come back from their shattering defeats. Will any of the sleeping giants awaken (teams with All-Irelands in last ~20 years) - Galway, Meath, Down, Derry.

I would much rather see the All-Ireland series disassociated from the provincial series. This is where the real unfairness lies. Also having only ~16 teams in the All-Ireland series. Because we have had some great games in the champo from q-final on we forget how awful the earlier rounds of the championship were and the hidings dished out. One decent game in Munster championship, Connaught championship awful. Decent Ulster championship, 1 decent game in the Leinster championship and the world of hammerings.

freddiek

in the short-term, Leinster needs emergency attention. The competition is now a dead duck, as Dublin are unbeatable within Leinster. Not only are they far superior in panel strength compared to their smaller neighbours, but they get to play 100% of their Leinster fixtures at home...

The GAA should introduce an element of fairness to Leinster, if they could only avert their gazes from the cash register for a brief moment

A number of measures could be taken:

(i) scrap the competition altogether and have a National open draw
(ii) all Dublin fixtures to be played Outside Dublin
(iii) take Dublin out of the Leinster Championship

Dots1982

Gryire wrote: »

This great Dublin team won the semi-final by a point and the final by a point. With the new black card rules next year they will need at least 15 sub's to replace the 15 who will be black carded in the first half.

What semi final were you watching?

iDave

freddiek wrote: »

(i) scrap the competition altogether and have a National open draw
(ii) all Dublin fixtures to be played Outside Dublin
(iii) take Dublin out of the Leinster Championship

(i) That's not relevant to splitting Dublin in 2
(ii) If Dublin continue in its current format in the existing Leinster championship where do you propose they play Meath or Kildare?
(iii) and put them where exactly?

Sick of this defeatist attitude about the Leinster championship. Meath led at half time this year, lost by 3 last year and hammered them 2010.

Dots1982

Gryire wrote: »

This great Dublin team won the semi-final by a point and the final by a point. With the new black card rules next year they will need at least 15 sub's to replace the 15 who will be black carded in the first half.

Won the semi by 7 mate

Rightwing

freddiek wrote: »

in the short-term, Leinster needs emergency attention. The competition is now a dead duck, as Dublin are unbeatable within Leinster. Not only are they far superior in panel strength compared to their smaller neighbours, but they get to play 100% of their Leinster fixtures at home...

The GAA should introduce an element of fairness to Leinster, if they could only avert their gazes from the cash register for a brief moment

A number of measures could be taken:

(i) scrap the competition altogether and have a National open draw
(ii) all Dublin fixtures to be played Outside Dublin
(iii) take Dublin out of the Leinster Championship

And it's not just Dublin. Gaelic football is in real trouble. I'd have to be paid to watch Limk footballers...Munster is a joke. Connacht is now one as well. The only competitive province is Ulster.

Fr Tod Umptious

freddiek wrote: »

in the short-term, Leinster needs emergency attention. The competition is now a dead duck, as Dublin are unbeatable within Leinster. Not only are they far superior in panel strength compared to their smaller neighbours, but they get to play 100% of their Leinster fixtures at home...

The GAA should introduce an element of fairness to Leinster, if they could only avert their gazes from the cash register for a brief moment

A number of measures could be taken:

(i) scrap the competition altogether and have a National open draw
(ii) all Dublin fixtures to be played Outside Dublin
(iii) take Dublin out of the Leinster Championship

(i) - A bigger question not confined to Leinster or Dublin
(ii) - Blatantly unfair on Dublin
(iii) - And put them where exactly?

As I have said a few times on this thread any splitting of Dublin will not happen because Dublin are dominant on the field.
It will happen if the GAA fell that a single Dublin team is not getting the penetration it should be getting in a high population area

robbiezero

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

As I have said a few times on this thread any splitting of Dublin will not happen because Dublin are dominant on the field.

And at the moment there is certainly not enough evidence to meet that criteria. Maybe if they won 8 out of the next 10 All-Irelands.

Dots1982

iDave wrote: »

Sick of this defeatist attitude about the Leinster championship. Meath led at half time this year, lost by 3 last year and hammered them 2010.

Well done Meath, the stats still say they've won 7 of the last 8 and the prospect is Dublin are only a young team while Meath are doing little underage in comparison.

prospect

I can see it now, if they split the capital into North, South and West, then all the anti-Dubs will be whinging that Dublin have 3 times more chance of winning.

anbrutog

tritium wrote: »

Every so often an exceptionally good team will come along. Kerry had that in recent years and before, Tyrone too. It takes a lot of work to get to that level though and in getting there you should be dominating your province along the way (Ulster is a bit of an exception here). Eventually it becomes someone else turn to dominate and the cycle moves on. No one seemed to worry about Dublin's size back when Sean boylan was leading Meath to Leinster dominance. Thanks to the excesses of the boom most Leinster counties now actually have a bigger population pool to work with. But now that Dublin have a team that might, just might, become an exceptional and dominant team the problem is suddenly Dublin's size....

Seriously, change the record!

Yup. Its down to sheer naked bigotry and nothing else..but the culchies will never admit it, will they?

Drop it lads, its getting tiresome at this stage.

Dots1982

anbrutog wrote: »

Yup. Its down to sheer naked bigotry and nothing else..but the culchies will never admit it, will they?

Drop it lads, its getting tiresome at this stage.

The Dubs who are anti-discussion on this topic remind me of bigots.."NO SURRENDER" "NOT AN INCH"

anbrutog

Dots1982 wrote: »

The Dubs who are anti-discussion on this topic remind me of bigots.."NO SURRENDER" "NOT AN INCH"

What other way would you expect us to be when we have non-Dubs lining up to have our county split for no other reason than they don't like to see us win?

Oasis_Dublin

Dots1982 wrote: »

The Kerry and Kilkenny thing is not applicable. They won everything because football and hurling is in the blood down there. Dublin win everything due to a overwhelming population advantage (at least double of every other county) as well other less significant advantages.

Amazing how much spite there is for Dublin. When Dublin win anything it's, "oh well sure it's bouuuuund to happen like. Ye have 7 billion people living up dur and dey all play gaaaaelic football and hurdling."

But when a team from outside Dublin wins something it's, "oh it's pure primordialist ethnicity you see. Kerry have football blood running through their pure veins."

Absolute tripe.

Would you ever go lie down!

listermint

Dots1982 wrote: »

The Dubs who are anti-discussion on this topic remind me of bigots.."NO SURRENDER" "NOT AN INCH"

No because the whole premise of the proposal is utterly absurd. You want to hamper Dublin based on some ridiculously flawed logic, also working under the assumption that GAA is as popular in the capital that other sports like soccer or rugby. At which it has to contend with for youth.

The facts are this, everyone in Leinster needs to go back to the training ground and up their game, device new tactics and put out a proper game plan.

Donegal managed to do this last year. Only for mayo kicked some utterly stupid wides yesterday this thread wouldnt be even open.


Now off you go lads, back to the drawing board get training get revising and try and beat the current best team of the year.

Because there is always next year.

Rightwing

anbrutog wrote: »

Yup. Its down to sheer naked bigotry and nothing else..but the culchies will never admit it, will they?

Drop it lads, its getting tiresome at this stage.

On the contrary they are trying to help the situation. People won't turn up to games if the current trend continues. And this has absolutely nothing to do with Dublin. Dublin/Mayo/Cork/Kerry will completely dominate the provincial for the forseeable future, that's in no one's interests.

DARK-KNIGHT

This thread is just a massive fail IMO

davidfitz22

Have you even lived in Dublin? Here in donegal everything revolves around the local GAA club, same for galway. the whole county has some interest. But in Dublin GAA is a minority sport. They play soccer, rugby and cricket lately. There is little interest in GAA in the county. It just happens they are the best at the moment. the better they are the more interest develops and then we may see the population being an unfair advantage. but it's balanced as thereisn't as much emphasis on GAA there as there is in other counties.

Gryire

prospect wrote: »

I can see it now, if they split the capital into North, South and West, then all the anti-Dubs will be whinging that Dublin have 3 times more chance of winning.

If you split Dublin into North and South, Dublin would have no chance of winning. Get real. 2 All Irelands in 18 years. In the same era Kerry have won 6, Tyrone have won 3, Meath have won 2, Galway have won 2. Based on this we should split Kerry into 3 sections.

Dublin are a good 1 in a row team. Mayo did not play on Sunday and this is why Dublin won.

Fair play to Dublin, the game was there for the taking and they took it.

anbrutog

Rightwing wrote: »

On the contrary they are trying to help the situation. People won't turn up to games if the current trend continues. And this has absolutely nothing to do with Dublin. Dublin/Mayo/Cork/Kerry will completely dominate the provincial for the forseeable future, that's in no one's interests.

Course they're trying to help.

Like they were trying to help when Kilkenny were winning everything in sight, as were Kerry..

Oh wait....

Its about stopping Dublin, nothing more.

DARK-KNIGHT

Dublin.. Cheaters cheaters compulsive eaters :P

DARK-KNIGHT

To be honest Dublin should be split by postcodes Dublin 1, 2, 3, 4 etc etc etc

iDave

Where would South Dublin GAA play their matches? Don't think RDS or Aviva meet the GAA dimensions.

Rightwing

anbrutog wrote: »

Course they're trying to help.

Like they were trying to help when Kilkenny were winning everything in sight, as were Kerry..

Oh wait....

Its about stopping Dublin, nothing more.

Nonsense, complete nonsense. I've little to no interest in football. The little bit I saw I liked the brand of football Dublin were playing, but I can't see why anyone from Wicklow etc would bother go to matches.

What needs to be done, the GAA have to throw money at these other counties like they have done for the Dub hurlers. Am I happy to see Dub hurling up there, absolutely.

Dots1982

anbrutog wrote: »

What other way would you expect us to be when we have non-Dubs lining up to have our county split for no other reason than they don't like to see us win?

That's certainly not the reason I would want Dublin to spilt( I don't want Dublin to spilt, I just think its acceptable to have a discussion on it). I am a big fan of Dublins this year. But I see Dublin have taken over Leinster with a young team to the point where games in Leinster are nothing to look forward to. If this has being happening at Leinster level for 8 years why would anyone be surprised to see it happening at All- Ireland level.

prospect

The championship itself is broken.

They need [group stage - knockout stage] format where seeding is determined by the previous years performance and the national league positions.

prospect

Gryire wrote: »

If you split Dublin into North and South, Dublin would have no chance of winning. Get real. 2 All Irelands in 18 years. In the same era Kerry have won 6, Tyrone have won 3, Meath have won 2, Galway have won 2. Based on this we should split Kerry into 3 sections.

Dublin are a good 1 in a row team. Mayo did not play on Sunday and this is why Dublin won.

Fair play to Dublin, the game was there for the taking and they took it.

Eh, I'm a Dub supporter, I was speaking in jest.

Oasis_Dublin

If this split happens, I really hope Dublin South play their games in Landsdowne Road. It would be totes ma goats unfair to have to play all of OUR games in another team's territory!

#absoluteidiocy #clares1992winwastheonlynoncorkorkerrywininmunsterinthelastseventyyears #antidublinnonsense

robbiezero

Dots1982 wrote: »

That's certainly not the reason I would want Dublin to spilt( I don't want Dublin to spilt, I just think its acceptable to have a discussion on it). I am a big fan of Dublins this year. But I see Dublin have taken over Leinster with a young team to the point where games in Leinster are nothing to look forward to. If this has being happening at Leinster level for 8 years why would anyone be surprised to see it happening at All- Ireland level.

Apart from Clare in 92, Tipp were the last team other than Cork or Kerry to win a Munster football championship. In 1935.

freddiek

the Dublin posters have contributed nothing of worth to this discussion. As expected


But the non-Dubs from all counties can see there is a problem, especially in Leinster.


We will get our level playing field. Someday

prospect

freddiek wrote: »

the Dublin posters have contributed nothing of worth to this discussion. As expected


But the non-Dubs from all counties can see there is a problem, especially in Leinster.


We will get our level playing field. Someday

What is the issue, is it Dublins (perceived) success, or purely the population advantage?

Gryire

Dots1982 wrote: »

That's certainly not the reason I would want Dublin to spilt( I don't want Dublin to spilt, I just think its acceptable to have a discussion on it). I am a big fan of Dublins this year. But I see Dublin have taken over Leinster with a young team to the point where games in Leinster are nothing to look forward to. If this has being happening at Leinster level for 8 years why would anyone be surprised to see it happening at All- Ireland level.

Leinster football is pretty poor overall. It is no surprice to see Dublin winning Leinsters and the occassional All Ireland. This is going on for years but still on 2 All Irelands in 18 years.

Last year people were saying Donegal were going to dominate for the next few years. Dublin are a very fit team of footballers but they were similar in 2012 and they did not win. After they win 4 in a row this discussion may be relevant but some people need a reality check. Dublin are not all that good. They won one of the poorest All Irelands in years, ageing teams from Kerry/Cork/Tyrone and a Mayo team that did not turn up for the final.

Rightwing

freddiek wrote: »

the Dublin posters have contributed nothing of worth to this discussion. As expected


But the non-Dubs from all counties can see there is a problem, especially in Leinster.


We will get our level playing field. Someday

It's not just Leinster. If Limerick were playing football tomorrow the county may not get 1,000 people at it. Munster football is a joke. The GAA have done nothing about it, no incentive for people to go to games.

MiamiMice

freddiek wrote: »

in the short-term, Leinster needs emergency attention. The competition is now a dead duck, as Dublin are unbeatable within Leinster. Not only are they far superior in panel strength compared to their smaller neighbours, but they get to play 100% of their Leinster fixtures at home...

The GAA should introduce an element of fairness to Leinster, if they could only avert their gazes from the cash register for a brief moment

A number of measures could be taken:

(i) scrap the competition altogether and have a National open draw
(ii) all Dublin fixtures to be played Outside Dublin
(iii) take Dublin out of the Leinster Championship

I think this is a great idea. Maybe put Dublin into Ulster for a year and when they are crowned Ulster champions put them into Connaught the next. Then after winning Connaught, put them into Munster so they can complete the Grand Slam of provincial titles. All whilst winning All Irelands.

anbrutog

Rightwing wrote: »

Nonsense, complete nonsense. I've little to no interest in football. The little bit I saw I liked the brand of football Dublin were playing, but I can't see why anyone from Wicklow etc would bother go to matches.

What needs to be done, the GAA have to throw money at these other counties like they have done for the Dub hurlers. Am I happy to see Dub hurling up there, absolutely.

Whats nonsense? The fact that the only reason this discussion is happening because of the hatred that exists from the 31 towards us?
Its nonsense by virtue of the fact that when any other successful team existed ( like KK ) there was NEVER any call to have them split.

But the minute the Jackeens start winning, oh lets split them.

Anyways, as far as I know, any split can only ever happen from within Dublin which is never going to happen.

So on that basis, please drop it and stop annoying us -- and let us savour our 3 All Ireland win in 29 years.

freddiek

MiamiMice wrote: »

I think this is a great idea. Maybe put Dublin into Ulster for a year and when they are crowned Ulster champions put them into Connaught the next. Then after winning Connaught, put them into Munster so they can complete the Grand Slam of provincial titles. All whilst winning All Irelands.

Dublin could always play challenge matches instead of Leinster SFC fixtures. These challenges would probably be more competitive than the walkovers they get in their Home Leinster fixtures

super_furry

I can just imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth when you'd get South Dublin v North Dublin in every Leinster final. Not to mention the need then to build a new stadium on the South side.

Gryire

super_furry wrote: »

I can just imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth when you'd get South Dublin v North Dublin in every Leinster final. Not to mention the need then to build a new stadium on the South side.

So want the Dublin teams to be seeded and all games at home!

Rightwing

anbrutog wrote: »

Whats nonsense? The fact that the only reason this discussion is happening because of the hatred that exists from the 31 towards us?
Its nonsense by virtue of the fact that when any other successful team existed ( like KK ) there was NEVER any call to have them split.

But the minute the Jackeens start winning, oh lets split them.

Anyways, as far as I know, any split can only ever happen from within Dublin which is never going to happen.

So on that basis, please drop it and stop annoying us -- and let us savour our 3 All Ireland win in 29 years.

I like Dublin, and would hate to see the county being split up. I was for Mayo, but only because they could do win an All Ireland. In 2011, I was for Dublin. I much prefer hurling as a game, and wasn't happy to see KK win all the All Irelands. I want to see my county Limk, plus the likes of Clare/Waterford come good in hurling.

But for football, something needs to be done in 3 provinces, and it's not splitting counties. The GAA must do something, like put more resources into the other counties for the good of the overall game. It worked for the Dub hurlers.

Dots1982

prospect wrote: »

What is the issue, is it Dublins (perceived) success, or purely the population advantage?

It a chicken and egg situation. The reason for Dublin's success is largely down to their population advantage. Sorry if Dubs don't agree with me. I wouldn't expect them to.

The Kilkennys and Kerrys are successful because of tradition and natural skill. They may have a population advantage over some of the counties they defeat but its non a defining factor as is the case with Dublin.

Rightwing

Dots1982 wrote: »

It a chicken and egg situation. The reason for Dublin's success is largely down to their population advantage. Sorry if Dubs don't agree with me. I wouldn't expect them to.

The Kilkennys and Kerrys are successful because of tradition and natural skill. They may have a population advantage over some of the counties they defeat but its non a defining factor as is the case with Dublin.

Kerry & KK have had advantages. Football very weak in Munster and hurling was very weak in Lainster. Now that Galway are in Leinster and Dub hurling is good, we quickly see KK's advantage is gone, and they are struggling to win Leinster.

prospect

Dots1982 wrote: »

It a chicken and egg situation. The reason for Dublin's success is largely down to their population advantage. Sorry if Dubs don't agree with me. I wouldn't expect them to.

The Kilkennys and Kerrys are successful because of tradition and natural skill. They may have a population advantage over some of the counties they defeat but its non a defining factor as is the case with Dublin.

It is a valid point of view, although I don't entirely agree with it.

The reason I asked was that it is suggested that the large population was an advantage. But when asked if the Hurlers and the Womens & Junior/Minor teams should be split the response was 'No', because they haven't been successful.

So I am wondering if the issue is purely population, or just jealousy of 'some' success. Because lets face it, Leinster titles aside, they have not exactly been hugely successful in the All Ireland in my lifetime (36 years).

Dots1982

Rightwing wrote: »

Kerry & KK have had advantages. Football very weak in Munster and hurling was very weak in Lainster. Now that Galway are in Leinster and Dub hurling is good, we quickly see KK's advantage is gone, and they are struggling to win Leinster.

Yeah it's a factor but more to do with injuries and players getting old this year